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[Free Bird]

10 hours ago, Derick said:

No. Tell me more about that, please. How that happens?

To put it briefly, that's exactly what happend in the mid 90's. At first Axl let Slash and Duff sign a contract which said the name GNR is his if the band split up or a member of the band dies.

Then he quitted the band and offered Slash and Duff to be part of his new band as employees. Slash never agreed and leaved after a while.

The old membership was still existing, that's why Axl and Slash (and Duff to some dagree) had both to agree about everything classic-era-stuff-related like using it for movies and shit like that.

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Free Bird

[Nikki_Sixx]

18 hours ago, Derick said:

To state that the Chinese Democracy album is not a GNR album...Sorry I´m still "newbie" on this forum and maybe I lost something but who are you? Did you have some rights on GNR name that gives you the power to decide what is or what is not GNR?

Yes.

[RussTCB]

2 hours ago, Tadsy said:

Complain all you want, makes little difference to me. 

But you will need to accept that some people here don't accept CD as a legitimate GNR record for obvious reasons. Arguing that everyday will get tedious for you either way.

This took me a long time to learn personally. I spent the better part of a decade responding to seemingly every post I disagreed with and to be honest, it was quite exhausting.

I'd go around quoting every post that said "Axl & his solo band" and replying with something like "BUT IT *IS* GUNS N' ROSES!!!111!!11!!". Same thing with CD. CD is not only a GN'R album to me, it's my favorite of theirs. It took me years to understand that my opinion was just as foreign to others as theirs was to me. 

For whatever reason I (and a lot of CD fans) seemed to take it personally. I've said this before and I think it still rings true; I think a lot of it has to do with the harshness of all this being written in text where there's no tone or inflection. I've had knock down drag out "wars" with users on forums, then met them in person and got along with them famously. We're able to discuss our differences of opinion a lot better in person when we can hear the feeling behind the words being said.

Just thought I'd mention all of that as your post really hit home with me.

 

[withyourassintheair]

16 hours ago, maynard said:

Let's say Bono decides to release a solo album next year with 8 different musicians in place of Edge, Larry and Adam but he feels somehow he's the face and voice of U2 he just can't let it go and decides to call his new album an U2 album. It would have U2 name on it but it would not REALLY be an U2 album right? Or do you disagree with me? Apply the same logic to his solo album, Chinese Democracy. If you're not retarded I guess you understood the point.

Let's say The Edge, Larry and Adam all quit the band but Bono, the legal owner of the name U2, was still working on the new album. Should he abandon the project and the name of the band that he founded, named, fronted and wrote most of the songs for, or should he work on replacing musicians who walked out so the fans can continue to enjoy Bono's life work. If you're not retarded I guess you understand...

[withyourassintheair]

4 hours ago, Free Bird said:

To put it briefly, that's exactly what happend in the mid 90's. At first Axl let Slash and Duff sign a contract which said the name GNR is his if the band split up or a member of the band dies.

Then he quitted the band and offered Slash and Duff to be part of his new band as employees. Slash never agreed and leaved after a while.

The old membership was still existing, that's why Axl and Slash (and Duff to some dagree) had both to agree about everything classic-era-stuff-related like using it for movies and shit like that.

 

You are totally wrong, and Slash's book is not to be taken as a trusted source of information.

[maynard]

10 minutes ago, withyourassintheair said:

Let's say The Edge, Larry and Adam all quit the band but Bono, the legal owner of the name U2, was still working on the new album. Should he abandon the project and the name of the band that he founded, named, fronted and wrote most of the songs for, or should he work on replacing musicians who walked out so the fans can continue to enjoy Bono's life work. If you're not retarded I guess you understand...

Still not REALLY an U2 album. Get it now?

[withyourassintheair]

Just now, maynard said:

Still not REALLY an U2 album. Get it now?

Well if Bono, the legal owner of the U2 name, decided that it would still be a U2 album, it absolutely would really be a U2 album. I'm not sure why you struggle to comprehend such a basic idea. I think attempting to call others retarded is a coping mechanism for you since your obvious lack of intelligence makes you feel inferior.

[maynard]

1 minute ago, withyourassintheair said:

Well if Bono, the legal owner of the U2 name, decided that it would still be a U2 album, it absolutely would really be a U2 album. I'm not sure why you struggle to comprehend such a basic idea. I think attempting to call others retarded is a coping mechanism for you since your obvious lack of intelligence makes you feel inferior.

Yeah, but it would not REALLY be an U2 album, right? (this is my third attempt, hope you get it this time).

[default_]

4 minutes ago, maynard said:

Yeah, but it would not REALLY be an U2 album, right? (this is my third attempt, hope you get it this time).

Forget it, this guy want to legitimize Axl solo and doesnt really understand the concept of what a BAND is.

[Padme]

2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

This took me a long time to learn personally. I spent the better part of a decade responding to seemingly every post I disagreed with and to be honest, it was quite exhausting.

I'd go around quoting every post that said "Axl & his solo band" and replying with something like "BUT IT *IS* GUNS N' ROSES!!!111!!11!!". Same thing with CD. CD is not only a GN'R album to me, it's my favorite of theirs. It took me years to understand that my opinion was just as foreign to others as theirs was to me. 

For whatever reason I (and a lot of CD fans) seemed to take it personally. I've said this before and I think it still rings true; I think a lot of it has to do with the harshness of all this being written in text where there's no tone or inflection. I've had knock down drag out "wars" with users on forums, then met them in person and got along with them famously. We're able to discuss our differences of opinion a lot better in person when we can hear the feeling behind the words being said.

Just thought I'd mention all of that as your post really hit home with me.

 

I understand and respect that for you it is your favorite album. But please make a case why? Is it because of Finck? In that case it is not too much of a compelling argument. Even if you write a 10 pages paper explaning in  detail why you love it so much. Still, is it their best album? For you it probably is. But for millions of fans around the world it is not. GN'R didn't become one of the biggest bands in the world because of CD. Not even if the Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Adler would've made it.  With the AFD lineup it would've sold a bit better. But I don't think the kind of music, lyrics and overproduction we have on CD is the kind of album that most GN'R fans, die hards and casuals are expecting to hear 

[withyourassintheair]

If you can't understand such a basic concept, I'm really not sure there is any hope for you.

ACDC is still ACDC without Bon or Brian

Marilyn Manson is still Marilyn Manson without John 5 or The Spooky Kids

Local H is still Local H without Joe Daniels

Black Sabbath was still Black Sabbath without Ozzy

and Guns N' Roses was still Guns N' Roses without Slash, Duff, Izzy, and Matt.

[ZoSoRose]

3 minutes ago, withyourassintheair said:

If you can't understand such a basic concept, I'm really not sure there is any hope for you.

ACDC is still ACDC without Bon or Brian

Marilyn Manson is still Marilyn Manson without John 5 or The Spooky Kids

Local H is still Local H without Joe Daniels

Black Sabbath was still Black Sabbath without Ozzy

and Guns N' Roses was still Guns N' Roses without Slash, Duff, Izzy, and Matt.

Here we go....

[default_]

10 minutes ago, withyourassintheair said:

If you can't understand such a basic concept, I'm really not sure there is any hope for you.

ACDC is still ACDC without Bon or Brian

Marilyn Manson is still Marilyn Manson without John 5 or The Spooky Kids

Local H is still Local H without Joe Daniels

Black Sabbath was still Black Sabbath without Ozzy

and Guns N' Roses was still Guns N' Roses without Slash, Duff, Izzy, and Matt.

But you cant really compare something like Ozzy leaving Black Sabbath while all the others members and the major composer of the band was still there. Black Sabbath, in essence, was still Black Sabbath after Ozzy, three of four was still there, the concept was still there, the music and themes were still there. Original BS members have come and gone trough the time, but it was never so abrupt like GNR and they've always kept the essence of what the band was. And Iommi was always in contact with the original members, in every BS album, even the ones he did alone like Black Star, there was at least one contribution from a original member.

In GNR only one member left that wasnt even one of the main composers of the band, so what did he do? Changed everything, every-fuckin-thing. It wasnt GNR anymore, it was something else entirely different, only the name was the same.
Even himself said something like "Its difficult to turn something new into something that was". lol

I even like CD, a lot actually, but its not Guns N' Roses.

[maynard]

24 minutes ago, withyourassintheair said:

If you can't understand such a basic concept, I'm really not sure there is any hope for you.

ACDC is still ACDC without Bon or Brian

Marilyn Manson is still Marilyn Manson without John 5 or The Spooky Kids

Local H is still Local H without Joe Daniels

Black Sabbath was still Black Sabbath without Ozzy

and Guns N' Roses was still Guns N' Roses without Slash, Duff, Izzy, and Matt.

yeah but it is not REALLY GNR without them right? (4th attempt)

[Sosso]

I just made the first update

[Gackt]

If Aerosmith could still be Aerosmith without Joe Perry, then GNR could easily still be GNR without Slash

It would be a lot more debatable if the singer was switched out instead of an instrumentalist, like with Black Sabbath mentioned earlier.  I'm sure they have their own community debating whether or not the band with Glenn Hughes, Dio, Tony Mortin was still Black Sabbath, or if the band died when Ozzy left 

Not to stroke the flames, but none of the Appetite instrumentalists contributed anything that couldn't be replicated by a different musician, if not more effectively

 

Somewhat related but could lead to a different kind of discussion, KISS is open to the idea of other musicians taking over the roles of Paul Stanley & Gene Simmons in the future when they decide to retire, meaning the band will become more of a brand with cycling musicians instead of an established act with at least two original frontmen, so they can likely do shows for decades, if not centuries to come; that could be GNR someday 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Gackt

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, withyourassintheair said:

You are totally wrong, and Slash's book is not to be taken as a trusted source of information.

It's all very well documented. If you're interested in the truth you'll find it with a little research.

[Tom-Ass]

49 minutes ago, Padme said:

With the AFD lineup it would've sold a bit better. But I don't think the kind of music, lyrics and overproduction we have on CD is the kind of album that most GN'R fans, die hards and casuals are expecting to hear 

If the AFD lineup recorded it, I wouldn't like it any better.  I was on board with CD at very beginning after the Buckethead lineup did Rock In Rio.. I was following that, the Vegas show and all events leading up to that. Bought some f the members like Buckethead and Josh Freezes solo work. Bought that SPIN magazine and all that shit. I liked those RIR RIO versions of Madagascar, CD and The Blues. A lot... Then Axl just started showing his true colors again. Talking shit about everyone and not taking any blame.. Not showing up for shows or entire legs of tours.. Saying that they booked the tour without him knowing.. I reluctantly still went to a NuGnR show.. He came on at 11:30 on a Monday night.. He started talking shit about Izzy.. The show sucked and we left a couple songs early. I was all set and officially rooting against the dude at this point. 

Fast forward to 2008 and CD was finally coming out.. I wanted it to bomb so bad but inside I didn't think it was possible for Axl to release a bad album.. Then they played it from front to back on WAAF that night and it was terrible. People were calling me asking if I had heard how awful it was. People on the morning show the next day were calling in and ripping it to shreds. The studio versions of the 3 songs I liked from RIO weren't as good as those live versions.. 

I have went and listened to songs over the years like Prostitute, TWAT, TIL, If The World, Better that people always talk about to see if at some point they will resonate and they just don't...  

You can't change history but I will always wish Axl released that thing as a solo album. It would have been better for him, the fans and probably even this reunion. 

 

 

[Tom-Ass]

17 minutes ago, Gackt said:

If Aerosmith could still be Aerosmith without Joe Perry, then GNR could easily still be GNR without Slash

That was one failure of an album (that I liked) in 45 years... And it still sounded like Aerosmith and at least had 3/5 of the original band. 

[Gackt]

Just now, Tom-Ass said:

That was one failure of an album (that I liked) in 45 years... And it still sounded like Aerosmith and at least had 3/5 of the original band. 

Anyone can easily ignore everything the band did between Rocks & Pump without missing anything  but the band was still able to do their thing even with members coming and going in that brief period where Perry and I believe Hamilton took off

If you go into an album, or change in general wanting to hate it, obviously you're going to be looking at it through a confirmation bias

[withyourassintheair]

I can't believe someone posting on a forum just openly admitted to rooting against Axl and hoping Guns N' Roses would fail. Doesn't seem like a fan at all.

[Tom-Ass]

1 minute ago, withyourassintheair said:

I can't believe someone posting on a forum just openly admitted to rooting against Axl and hoping Guns N' Roses would fail. Doesn't seem like a fan at all.

If you can't see that that Guns N' Roses were more than just Axl Rose to millions of people then I don't know what to say.  Whatever "Guns N' Roses" were in 2008 didn't look or sound anything like Guns N' Roses any more.. The majority of people that fell in love with the band back in the day didn't consider the band Guns n' Roses anymore. Most believed (including past band members themselves) that Axl owned the majority of the blame for the demise of the band. 

Just because you didn't support NuGuns does not mean in anyway that you aren't a Guns N' Roses fan. 

[Padme]

56 minutes ago, Gackt said:

Anyone can easily ignore everything the band did between Rocks & Pump without missing anything  but the band was still able to do their thing even with members coming and going in that brief period where Perry and I believe Hamilton took off

If you go into an album, or change in general wanting to hate it, obviously you're going to be looking at it through a confirmation bias

Well I didn't want to hate CD. I rush to buy it the day it came out. Previously I just listened to some leaks. I wasn't impressed. But I thought those were demos and not fully finished songs. So I was still hoping the final product was going to be better. I was wrong. When I bought and listened to CD I didn't like it for the most part.

[Gackt]

Just now, Padme said:

Well I didn't want to hate CD. I rush to buy it the day it came out. Previously I just listened to some leaks. I wasn't impressed. But I thought those were demos and not fully finished songs. So I was still hoping the final product was going to be better. I was wrong. When I bought and listened to CD I didn't like it for the most part.

Care to elaborate?  There has to be reasons you didn't enjoy an album besides "I didn't like it"

[Padme]

Just now, Gackt said:

Care to elaborate?  There has to be reasons you didn't enjoy an album besides "I didn't like it"

I find it boring. I find a lot of self pitty from Axl part in some of the songs. And others I just don't understand what he is talking about. I don't like weird noises like in the Better sort of intro. I don't like Axl talking kinda like in a baby voice in the begining and end of the song. I find TIL cheesy, repetitive and and melodramatic. If The World, boring as hell. TWAT annonying self pitty lyrics. Buckethead plays a great outro, but that's it. I don't find anything like WTTJ or YCBM on Chinese Democracy