DieselDaisy Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 There is too much shite on the Illusions. Albums like Appetite and those mentioned by the Stones and Beatles are flawless. You are never going to compete with your Let it Bleeds with stuff like 'My World', 'Get in the Ring' and 'Shotgun Blues' on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pishy Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 as far as flawless, no, UYI II cant make the cut because of my world and get in the ring, the latter is funny but certainly not something one would be comfortable driving around to with the windows down. And for UYI I, back off bitch is a flaw. The only good part is when axl does his woah oh, oh oh oh, lol! Flawless albums: Queen (first album) Queen II Queen Sheer Heart Attack Led Zeppelin IV, II, I, Presence Black Sabbath Sold Our Souls for Rock n Roll Buckethead -from my limited knowledge to date Pike 65, Claymation Courtyard, Happy Birthday MJ 23 Michael Jackson Thriller Alice in Chains - Dirt (I pretend rooster is not there) The Doors Best of, yeah yeah not fair Tupac + Outlawz Still I Rise NIN Pretty Hate machine Pearl Jam Ten Prince Purple Rain Tool Aenima Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pishy Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 you all have some fine taste in music. I had read some posts and avoided repeating but not all so I did repeat, oops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Pishy said: as far as flawless, no, UYI II cant make the cut because of my world and get in the ring, the latter is funny but certainly not something one would be comfortable driving around to with the windows down. And for UYI I, back off bitch is a flaw. The only good part is when axl does his woah oh, oh oh oh, lol! Flawless albums: Queen (first album) Queen II Queen Sheer Heart Attack Led Zeppelin IV, II, I, Presence Black Sabbath Sold Our Souls for Rock n Roll Buckethead -from my limited knowledge to date Pike 65, Claymation Courtyard, Happy Birthday MJ 23 Michael Jackson Thriller Alice in Chains - Dirt (I pretend rooster is not there) The Doors Best of, yeah yeah not fair Tupac + Outlawz Still I Rise NIN Pretty Hate machine Pearl Jam Ten Prince Purple Rain Tool Aenima Still I Rise, really?!? Of all the albums you could've picked you pick Still I Rise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pishy Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 @Len Cnut it is great . All Eyez on me has a few flaws, Whatz Ya Phone #? And I don't like California with that double crossing bitch Dre. Disc 2 def more in the flawless Category. But yes, still I rise is excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bono Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 17 hours ago, Bono said: The Joshua Tree is U2's "crown jewel" so to speak amongst the general public and casual fans. It's the album that shot them into super stardom. Having said that Achtung Baby is their "Appetite" for purposes of this thread. It's the album that showed U2 was capable of pretty much whatever they wanted to do. I may be biased but I don't think there has ever been a band who changed their sound and image to such a drastic degree from one(or two if you throw Rattle and Hum in there) album to the next. Not only did they not alienate their fanbase with these changes, they grew it exponentially. It was a massive risk and it paid off huge and they pulled it off with such authenticity it's pretty incredible really. I don't think they get enough credit for that or for the album in general among the casual listeners and general public. Achtung Baby regularly wins polls among hardcore U2 fans as their best album. Joshua Tree is for the public and Achtung Baby is for the fans. I'm gonna quote myself here to add to my point. Achtung Baby unlike the overwhelming vast majority of albums ever created, including AFD ends even stronger than it starts. The 3 song set to close out the album (Ultraviolet, Acrobat, Love is Blindess) is the best three song set to close an album I've ever heard. Not only are the songs incredible but they pull the album together in an almost perfect summation. In fact there's a legit argument to be made the entire second half of Achtung Baby is better than the first half which actually features 4 hit singles off the album. Achtung Baby also features in my opinion Bono at his best in terms of lyrics and it's one of the few albums where The Edge actually contributes real guitar solos on a regular basis. The album from start to finish is much more dynamic and interesting than Joshua Tree but just doesn't have that same weight to it for whatever reason when people discuss these types of topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppelin Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 5 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: There is too much shite on the Illusions. Albums like Appetite and those mentioned by the Stones and Beatles are flawless. You are never going to compete with your Let it Bleeds with stuff like 'My World', 'Get in the Ring' and 'Shotgun Blues' on there. This is a good point, but I'll still take the imperfections. Besides, Appetite isn't quite perfect. Not for me, at least. As soon as SCOM ends, I'm just basically waiting for Rocket Queen to begin. I skip You're Crazy and Anything Goes almost every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Zeppelin said: This is a good point, but I'll still take the imperfections. Besides, Appetite isn't quite perfect. Not for me, at least. As soon as SCOM ends, I'm just basically waiting for Rocket Queen to begin. I skip You're Crazy and Anything Goes almost every time. I think Use Your Illusions should have been released as like, a single album. 4 CDs or whatever, like The Clash did with Sandinista. Cuz its like this right, they were Guns n Roses so it would've always made sales, it would've got a certain amount of recognition in terms of like, 'sprawling, ambitious', the usual tired superlatives that critics wheel out, it may have got criticised for being messy but it would've had a longer shelf life perhaps, in an odd way, as albums like that do because they'd've gone 'oh its so big it sort of needs to grow on you', like Sandinista, people are going back to it and going 'oh, there was so much more going on!' etc etc. But then I'm not sure they could've done that because they done a weird thing of like...OK, think back to the great double and triple albums, the one thing the most respected ones had in common is that there was a lot going on in them, whereas GnR, pretty much just made like, 32 or however many tracks of straightahead rock. They didn't even have to go WAY out there but just do something y'know? When you really think about it, even when they do go into like, a ballad or whatever, its been rockified so much that really its not much of a departure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Pishy said: @Len Cnut it is great . All Eyez on me has a few flaws, Whatz Ya Phone #? And I don't like California with that double crossing bitch Dre. Disc 2 def more in the flawless Category. But yes, still I rise is excellent. I wouldn't've thought Tupac'd be your thing to be honest, what with the racism, the homophobia and the sexual assault conviction. Edited November 18, 2017 by Len Cnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Dog Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 All Eyez on Me, Me Against the World, or Makaveli all could be Pac's Appetite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pishy Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, J Dog said: All Eyez on Me, Me Against the World, or Makaveli all could be Pac's Appetite. I agree but it has to be flawless and the phone # song is terrible . 2Pacalypse i like a lot too Still I rise is very politically astute for such a young man , but then again he had a Panther education . Edited November 18, 2017 by Pishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pishy Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 10 hours ago, Len Cnut said: I wouldn't've thought Tupac'd be your thing to be honest, what with the racism, the homophobia and the sexual assault conviction. You clearly are one of the listeners that don't understand 2Pac whatsoever and listen for the very negative reasons you imagine are true. racist And homophobic ? You wish. He didn't rape or sexually assault anyone , there are very specific reasons why that was done to him. Watch your mouth when speaking on Tupac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Use Your Delusion 1 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 R.E.M - Automatic For the People Zeppelin - has to be IV Aerosmith - Rocks (easily) Iron Maiden - Number of the Beast Neil Young - Harvest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Quote You clearly are one of the listeners that don't understand 2Pac whatsoever and listen for the very negative reasons you imagine are true. Well thank you very much for that psychological profile there, that was much appreciated but uh...there's nothing I wrote in that post that was in any way incorrect. Quote racist And homophobic ? You wish So uh 'my epitaph will read was the last of G's, kicked the shit to make the white man bleed', how would you interpret that then? And homphobic, of course, what you think Tupac was a rainbow brigader? Do me a favour '...fuck y'all, gay sensitive little dick bastards, 2pacalypse motherfuckin' now, y'all can all kiss my ass and suck my dick...and my uncle Tommys balls!'...what, did I make those lyrics up? Quote He didn't rape or sexually assault anyone I never said he did, I said he had a conviction for it. Its funny how you right on-ers always change your tune when you happen to fancy the accused eh? Quote Watch your mouth when speaking on Tupac. Ooooooooooooooooooh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pishy Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Well thank you very much for that psychological profile there, that was much appreciated but uh...there's nothing I wrote in that post that was in any way incorrect. So uh 'my epitaph will read was the last of G's, kicked the shit to make the white man bleed', how would you interpret that then? And homphobic, of course, what you think Tupac was a rainbow brigader? Do me a favour '...fuck y'all, gay sensitive little dick bastards, 2pacalypse motherfuckin' now, y'all can all kiss my ass and suck my dick...and my uncle Tommys balls!'...what, did I make those lyrics up? I never said he did, I said he had a conviction for it. Its funny how you right on-ers always change your tune when you happen to fancy the accused eh? Ooooooooooooooooooh You are clearly not well versed in the Black struggle in America which is reflected in most of your comments . 1) most Black leaders , heros, anyone of status and who had a platform and the love of their people , who could effect change in America , were literally executed . They killed them. They were also imprisioned on false accusations, discredited, shamed , criminalized and neutralized . They have done it to every single Black hero without exception. So no, there is no "right on-ers " giving passes, even the accuser later admitted Tupac was not involved. 2) I don't know what is so funny to you . The man was killed at the age of 25. His mother was a Black Panther, which was a Black, Communist, liberation movement . Almost all the Panthers were murdered by the government , its documented and available for your review. They were all targeted and so were their children. If Tupac was just some "gansta" , or ignorant or going along with the system , it would have been fine . But that man had the full attention of Black youth . He was teaching them things they would never otherwise be allowed to learn . He had enormous influence on them, when he was killed, they had to open churches allover the country so people could be distracted as they were afraid of an uprising . 3) yes , I knew you were claiming racism against white people, in America , by a Black man in America , when racism is based on a power structure Black people don't sit in top of. There are countless write ups explaining this if interested . The fact is, Tupac well understood the struggle is a class struggle , not a race one, same as Huey Newton said. Their politics were based on material conditions and an understanding of capitalism . Racism is just one of the many tools the ruling class uses to divide the working class and Tupac demonstrated his knowledge of that numerous times , that's not to say structural racism doesn't exist , it most certainly does and the victims of it are Black peoole . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pishy Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) @Len Cnut and let me ask you , if you saw Tupac as a gangsta, apolitical guy who was racist , homophobic and someone you thought sexually assaulted someone , why do you like him? That appeals to you ? Because if you understood anything he was about and what he believed in and what he taught , there would be no confusion on why I have nothing but the highest respect and admiration for him. Tupac is a hero and always will be. He gave peoole knowledge and hope . He spoke the truth . He was extremely intelligent and sophisticated, imagine what he would have become ? We will never know and that's the point , to make an example of any "n" that gets out of their place . It's all good to rap about bs like moron Eminem , but to have a revolutionary at the mic won't b tolerated , have to keep people lost and confused so I'm clear why I love and admire Tupac . Edited November 20, 2017 by Pishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverburst80 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) Rolling Stones- Sticky Fingers.....the rock rocks harder, the sad songs are sadder and the country makes me wanna wear a cowboy hat more than their other albums. Wu Tang- 36 Chambers....not my favourite but it's considered perfect by most. Metallica - Master of Puppets Pantera- Vulger display of Power Sabbath- Paranoid Jeff Buckley- Grace just a couple off the top of my head. Edited November 20, 2017 by Silverburst80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Quote You are clearly not well versed in the Black struggle in America which is reflected in most of your comments . Can you please stop telling me what I am and what I'm not cuz honestly its embarrassing. Quote 1) most Black leaders , heros, anyone of status and who had a platform and the love of their people , who could effect change in America , were literally executed . They killed them. They were also imprisioned on false accusations, discredited, shamed , criminalized and neutralized . They have done it to every single Black hero without exception. So no, there is no "right on-ers " giving passes, even the accuser later admitted Tupac was not involved. Eldridge Cleaver died of natural causes. Bobby Seale is still alive. Muhammad Ali died a natural death. So did Elijah Muhammad. How about Louis Farrakhan? How about, hmmm, Al Sharpton? How about Jack Johnson, who killed him? Joe Louis? We can keep going y'know. What about Marcus Garvey, the man who began all this black consciousness stuff, who killed him? Do you actually know any specifics about anything or do you just ramble in broad strokes cuz it makes people think you know what you're talking about. What you're saying here is, correct me if I'm wrong, that some sort of establishment or power structure or group conspired to have Tupac imprisoned for 18th months on a charge of third degree sexual assault...to neutralise him? That was the best they could do, these powerful string pullers? Come on. Quote I don't know what is so funny to you Well if you look specifically where those laughing smileys are placed that should illustrate it for you. Quote His mother was a Black Panther, which was a Black, Communist, liberation movement . The Panthers had a Marxist philosophy, as well as black nationalist but they were certainly not Communist. Quote f Tupac was just some "gansta" , or ignorant or going along with the system , it would have been fine . But that man had the full attention of Black youth . He was teaching them things they would never otherwise be allowed to learn . He had enormous influence on them, when he was killed, they had to open churches allover the country so people could be distracted as they were afraid of an uprising . Honestly, you're starting to talk extreme levels of rubbish now, Tupac was a very intelligent man and quite skillful as an orator but the suggestion that he was Malcolm X or something and that his death almost led to some form of black youth uprising is absolute nonsense, just laughable. Honestly, its like you are creating your own argument and then countering it yourself, i never said he was a 'gansta' or ignorant or going along with the system, whatever thats supposed to mean, you just talk in these non-specific vagueisms that makes it very difficult to have a sensible discussion here. Quote yes , I knew you were claiming racism against white people, in America , by a Black man in America , when racism is based on a power structure Black people don't sit in top of This rhetoric was just about workable in the 1960s or 70s but Tupac said what he said in the 90s, whilst signed to a major record label making a shitload of money, he wasn't frontline in the NOI in the 60s whilst black people were still arguing for equal rights so you can't apply the logic of 1970s black militancy to what he was saying. And what you are saying is fundamentally dangerous, you're saying that a black person just cannot be racist, it just does not apply to them in the context of America because America has a racist power structure, you haven't been clear about timescales so I'm presuming here that, what, this applies now, today too or...? Y'know what the problem is here? The problem is you listen to a popstar and his albums and you start to think that he's somehow related to you, or you 'know' him more than the average, somehow the process of paying money for a CD was a more meaningful act when you did it, it's evidenced in the way you speak about him 'you're one those who doesn't understand Tupac whatsoever' and 'watch your mouth when you talk about Tupac', honestly, its embarassing, now old are you? Lemme clear something up for you, Tupac was a rich rapper actor that probably wouldn't piss on either of us if we were on fire so save your emotion for Christmas Eve or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pishy Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 @Len Cnut Youre not making any sense raising stooges like al sharpton or someone apolitical like Louis. Ali was destroyed during his peak then tolerated once he became very ill, even his legacy was perverted at his funeral . there is way too much here and if you want to continue we can in the general thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Quote and let me ask you , if you saw Tupac as a gangsta, apolitical guy who was racist , homophobic and someone you thought sexually assaulted someone , why do you like him? I never said he was a gangsta or apolitical...and why would some have to be political for me to like them? And I never said I thought he sexually assaulted someone either, i said he had a conviction for it, which he did. As for why I like him cuz he made good music. Yeah he said some racist things some homophobic things but I don't walk around judging this shit like I'm some kind of aribter of justice, i really don't care if he was a racist or a homophobe, any number of artists i love and adore from the past were most definitely homophobic and/or racist, what a man feels is his personal business. Eric Clapton says umpteen racist things, including against my own race, I really don't care, it's not my problem. I think it's a slippery slope to feel like you need to go probing through the lives of someone and have them fit some kind of archetype you have constructed in your head of a just human being before you can decide that he plays guitar well or his voice sounds nice coming out of a speaker, the two things have nothing to do with each other. Quote Because if you understood anything he was about and what he believed in and what he taught Grow up Quote Tupac is a hero and always will be. He gave peoole knowledge and hope . He spoke the truth . He was extremely intelligent and sophisticated, imagine what he would have become ? We will never know and that's the point , to make an example of any "n" that gets out of their place . It's all good to rap about bs like moron Eminem , but to have a revolutionary at the mic won't b tolerated , have to keep people lost and confused I think Tupac was an amazing rapper, perhaps the best there ever has been in terms of the whole product, i think he was real as fuck, i think he was a natural talent, i think he acted amazingly well, brilliantly even, i think he had serious charisma, i think he was a sharp intellect, i think he had a great deal of wisdom in some regards, especially considering his young age...but i refuse to deify anybody or ignore faults or flaws because I don't you can really admire a person like that, when you necessarily need to construct a false paradigm out of them before you can get behind their game, I think thats kinda phoney. Attempting to mould people in the same of your own ideals because thats the only way they are palatable to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Quote Youre not making any sense raising stooges like al sharpton Well i raised umpteen others that you've brushed passed, two of em high ranking founder members of the black panthers whoose leadership you claimed all got killed. Apparently I understand nothing about the struggle though right? Quote or someone apolitical like Louis You said black heroes, was he not a black hero? Quote there is way too much here and if you want to continue we can in the general thread Nah you're alright, it's a bit dull to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pishy Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Well i raised umpteen others that you've brushed passed, two of em high ranking founder members of the black panthers whoose leadership you claimed all got killed. Apparently I understand nothing about the struggle though right? You said black heroes, was he not a black hero? Nah you're alright, it's a bit dull to be honest. I defined hero for you , little wizard rapper is popular , a basketball player is popular , in his 'proper' place . I was clearly talking about those with platforms who are political and had the attention of people . A threat . And I would touch on the others if we continued but you're right , you're so off base talking about the dangers of racist Black peoole and how you're morally superior because you don't need to vet artists , which I never said to do, and going allover the place theowing up smoke screens in a wild frenzy to distort , that is very boring . I was being polite with the offer but thank you god for the little favors Edited November 20, 2017 by Pishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Dog Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 2Pac - All Eyez on Me Chili Peppers - Blood Sugar Sex Magik Black Crowes - Shake Your Money Maker AC/DC - Back in Black Lynyrd Skynyrd - Pronounced..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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