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Thoughts on Double Talkin Jive


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18 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Axl wrote November Rain. Do you think he wrote the solo?

No idea, man... I wasn't there. But seeing as the perfectionist he already was at that point and it being such an important song to him, I can imagine him telling Slash how he wanted those solos to sound like. 

Considering that Izzy is a guitarist and he is the only one who got credit for this particular song, I wouldn't say it's that unlikely that he also wrote the solo, right?

The solo does have Slash's tone, but it doesn't have his style, that's for sure.

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44 minutes ago, EvanG said:

No idea, man... I wasn't there. But seeing as the perfectionist he already was at that point and it being such an important song to him, I can imagine him telling Slash how he wanted those solos to sound like. 

Considering that Izzy is a guitarist and he is the only one who got credit for this particular song, I wouldn't say it's that unlikely that he also wrote the solo, right?

The solo does have Slash's tone, but it doesn't have his style, that's for sure.

Everytime I argued Slash should have been credited for NR and Estranged I was told solos aren't songwriting.

That means Izzys songwriting credits for DTJ  aren't an indication for who wrote that solo. 

I just think every solo Slash layed down for GNR is something he came up with. With the exception of the coversongs ... or some of them.

 

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12 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Everytime I argued Slash should have been credited for NR and Estranged I was told solos aren't songwriting.

That means Izzys songwriting credits for DTJ  aren't an indication for who wrote that solo. 

I just think every solo Slash layed down for GNR is something he came up with. With the exception of the coversongs ... or some of them.

 

I've had this discussion here too many times, so I'll keep it short. If Slash wrote/improvised (which he usually does) a solo over a chord progression that he didn't come up with, then I suppose technically he shouldn't get a song credit. Regarding NR and Estranged, who knows whose vision those solos are. Probably Axl's. It's not unlikely that Axl explained to Slash how he wanted those solos to sound like and had it all figured out. I'm not a drummer, but when I write a song I know exactly how I want the drums to sound like. 

Seeing as Izzy is a guitarist, it's not unlikely that he wrote that guitar solo especially seeing as he is the writer of the song.

 

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23 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I am sure Stradlin could approximate it, give or take a few segments, however it just sounds like Slash. It sounds like Slash, has Slash's improvisational style of note selection, has Slash's tone and in fact is Slash. 

Imagine that, it sounds like something Slash would come up with, and play. Because Slash came up with, and played it.

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8 hours ago, EvanG said:

I've had this discussion here too many times, so I'll keep it short. If Slash wrote/improvised (which he usually does) a solo over a chord progression that he didn't come up with, then I suppose technically he shouldn't get a song credit. Regarding NR and Estranged, who knows whose vision those solos are. Probably Axl's. It's not unlikely that Axl explained to Slash how he wanted those solos to sound like and had it all figured out. I'm not a drummer, but when I write a song I know exactly how I want the drums to sound like. 

Seeing as Izzy is a guitarist, it's not unlikely that he wrote that guitar solo especially seeing as he is the writer of the song.

 

It's possible, I just don't think so. To me it sounds all the way like Slash and not so much like Izzy. I guess we'll still debate in 10 years about it, since we won't get new informations about it most likely. 

Also I don't think Axl told Slash how he has to play the solos on NR and Estranged. This note in the booklet about the killer guitar melodies is not the proof but an indication.

By the way, I always wondered what Slash's contribution on the songwriting of Dust N Bones might have been, another extremely cool Izzy song...

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Especially regarding November Rain and Estranged I think it's very likely that those solos came from Axl's mind, knowing what kind of a perfectionist he is and those songs being his ''babies'' (as he called them) and not wanting any help writing them. The fact that he thanked Slash for the guitar melodies in the liner note, doesn't indicate he wrote them.

 

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18 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Especially regarding November Rain and Estranged I think it's very likely that those solos came from Axl's mind, knowing what kind of a perfectionist he is and those songs being his ''babies'' (as he called them) and not wanting any help writing them. The fact that he thanked Slash for the guitar melodies in the liner note, doesn't indicate he wrote them.

 

Why would Axl thank Slash for the melodies when Axl had them written himself?

They trusted in each other when it was about music. I think I don't have to say that Slash is very gifted when it comes to find the right notes for a solo since he tries to elevate the song, not to show off with his chops. Axl knew that and obviously loved the result

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Izzys guitar style was sloppy rock n roll.

IE. perfectly played rock n roll, loose and choppy.

His solos, that we definitely know of, are in a punky rock n roll style. The little bits he does in Jungle, his stuff on Brownstone, his solo on Nightrain, the muted funky riffing on Paradise City, his chimes on the intro to Civil War. 

The DTJ solo is 100% Slash. It's a Gibson Guitar, it's a Slash style solo, it has his sound, his tone, his feel, his pace, he also played similar style solos in multiple other songs, covers and originals. 

I think it's best in a band if shot is split equally between everyone. I've been listening to The Doors a lot recently, and Morrisons words and voice were unique, Kriegers guitar style, playing blues and flamenco was unique, the freak on organ and bass keyboard was playing the impossible and the drummer followed the singer and used the drums as an instrument, punctuating the singers words.

They split everything in 4, as they all brought something unique that clicked together to make amazing music.

Guns should have been the same, the original 5 were so unique and each contributed to the Sound and style of the songs that band played and the energy they had as a unit. 

Its a balls that Slash writes melodies like Solos on Estranged and November Rain and it's not considered his song. He was part of it.

Duff also.... The Breakdown on Jungle, the intro to Its So Easy, and most of all on the intro to Sweet Child Of Mine. Really melodic stuff from a Bass Player. 

Izzy for all the reasons I said above and his songwriting that has stood the test of time, which not all Guns stuff has. 

Steven - Cowbell. It was only cool when he played it. The Bo Diddley Beat on Brownestone. 

I just think of them as Guns N Roses songs.

(And the Songs always sounded best live)

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12 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Why would Axl thank Slash for the melodies when Axl had them written himself?

They trusted in each other when it was about music. I think I don't have to say that Slash is very gifted when it comes to find the right notes for a solo since he tries to elevate the song, not to show off with his chops. Axl knew that and obviously loved the result

I'm not saying Axl told him what to play note for note. And maybe you're totally right, unlike most of you guys, I am humble enough to admit that I can't know for sure, seeing as I wasn't there. But why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe Axl had ideas and a vision in his mind for the guitar solos and melodies, and with the help of Slash managed to realize his vision? Maybe that's why he thanked Slash in the liner note. They were his songs in the first place. That's also how it works in a band, I don't know if you've ever been in one, but if you have, then you should know.

About the DTJ solo, fuck if I know who really played it. I always think it's funny when people here act like they know it all, while in reality most of you don't know shit. There are a couple of reasons why I think it might be Izzy, so I wouldn't be surprised, but there are a couple of other reasons why I think it's Slash, so I really don't know. I'm just going against the grain in this thread because some of you are downright arrogant in here.

 

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14 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I'm not saying Axl told him what to play note for note. And maybe you're totally right, unlike most of you guys, I am humble enough to admit that I can't know for sure, seeing as I wasn't there. But why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe Axl had ideas and a vision in his mind for the guitar solos and melodies, and with the help of Slash managed to realize his vision? Maybe that's why he thanked Slash in the liner note. They were his songs in the first place. That's also how it works in a band, I don't know if you've ever been in one, but if you have, then you should know.

About the DTJ solo, fuck if I know who really played it. I always think it's funny when people here act like they know it all, while in reality most of you don't know shit. There are a couple of reasons why I think it might be Izzy, so I wouldn't be surprised, but there are a couple of other reasons why I think it's Slash, so I really don't know. I'm just going against the grain in this thread because some of you are downright arrogant in here.

 

He thanked him in the notes for the ''melodies'' (i.e. not solos) for 'Estranged'. There is no thank you note for 'November Rain'. 

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5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

He thanked him in the notes for the ''melodies'' (i.e. not solos) for 'Estranged'. There is no thank you note for 'November Rain'. 

I know why he thanked him, for those 'killer' guitar melodies throughout the first half of the song before every chorus, at least that is what I always assumed. Even more reason for me to think that it was something Axl had in mind and together they worked it out. But again, maybe it was all Slash. How the hell can any of us know?

Edited by EvanG
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