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Thoughts on Double Talkin Jive


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1 hour ago, EvanG said:

I'm not saying Axl told him what to play note for note. And maybe you're totally right, unlike most of you guys, I am humble enough to admit that I can't know for sure, seeing as I wasn't there. But why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe Axl had ideas and a vision in his mind for the guitar solos and melodies, and with the help of Slash managed to realize his vision? Maybe that's why he thanked Slash in the liner note. They were his songs in the first place. That's also how it works in a band, I don't know if you've ever been in one, but if you have, then you should know.

About the DTJ solo, fuck if I know who really played it. I always think it's funny when people here act like they know it all, while in reality most of you don't know shit. There are a couple of reasons why I think it might be Izzy, so I wouldn't be surprised, but there are a couple of other reasons why I think it's Slash, so I really don't know. I'm just going against the grain in this thread because some of you are downright arrogant in here.

 

Never acting like I know for sure. It's all assuming. I said before you are probably right but I just don't THINK you are for said reasons :thumbsup:

Edited by Free Bird
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OP. I prefer the current live version more than the album version but it's one of the songs I would be happy to see substituted for something else such as Locomotive!!

OT As for who wrote the solos in NR and Estranged. I lean toward Axl. He credited Slash with the "melodies" and those songs were his babies. His own guitar abilities might (Slash once noted he's better than most would think) be limited but Axl would have been more than capable of singing what he wanted to hear for Slash and/or Izzy. Jeff Fenster, who recorded some harmonica for Nightrain apparently said that Axl sang the harmonica bits for him when trying to get across what he wanted. 

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30 minutes ago, skassi said:

OP. I prefer the current live version more than the album version but it's one of the songs I would be happy to see substituted for something else such as Locomotive!!

OT As for who wrote the solos in NR and Estranged. I lean toward Axl. He credited Slash with the "melodies" and those songs were his babies. His own guitar abilities might (Slash once noted he's better than most would think) be limited but Axl would have been more than capable of singing what he wanted to hear for Slash and/or Izzy. Jeff Fenster, who recorded some harmonica for Nightrain apparently said that Axl sang the harmonica bits for him when trying to get across what he wanted. 

Just because Axl had to sang harmonica bits to Jeff Fenster doesn't mean Slash isn't able to come up with his own melodie or solos. Of course Axl could have told him what to play. Or he had trust in him because he knew what he was able to deliver.

However ... I'm out for now.

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Of course Slash is able to come up with his own melodies and solos, he probably does in most songs he plays on, but that doesn't mean that every guitar melody or solo is written by him. As I've said several times, especially with NR and Estranged I can imagine Axl having a hand in them because those two songs were very important to him, and him being the perfectionist and control freak that he probably already was at that time, he even had ideas for all the guitar parts.

As a songwriter, you don't need to be able to play guitar to know how you want a riff or a solo to sound like. Maybe Axl asked Slash to write a really cool guitar part over his chord progression, or maybe Axl sang it to him or played parts of it on the piano, and together they figured it out. Obviously we don't know, but it's silly to assume that Slash does it all just because he's the lead guitarist.

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What a load of bollocks this conversation has turned into. ''Axl wrote the November Rain guitar solo'' boys and girls. What other things can we credit Axl Rose with? Discovering radium? 

''Izzy did the solo to Double Talkin' Jive'' (despite sounding so undeniably Slash that the solo wears a tophat and is smoking a cigarette, but never mind). ''Axl did November Rain's solo''. Perhaps Sorum did the Don't Cry guitar solo, and Dizzy the You Could Be Mine solo? Maybe Tracy and Roberto play the lead guitar on Civil War?

I've seen many attempts to discredit Slash here but this takes the biscuit!

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I have never stated that Axl wrote the guitar solos in November Rain, so I don't know if you're referring to me. All I was trying to say is that just because Slash is the lead guitarist, it doesn't mean he is responsible for every guitar melody and solo, like you and a few other posters were trying to indicate. Tone down the arrogance, Daisy.... and a Merry Christmas.

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40 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Slash himself said that in the studio he choosed to play the exact same solo for NR that he played when he first heard the song years before and that's what he did with almost every solo on every guns song. 

 

18 hours ago, EvanG said:

Of course Slash is able to come up with his own melodies and solos, he probably does in most songs he plays on, but that doesn't mean that every guitar melody or solo is written by him.

 

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Loosely related to the O/T discussion:

Raz Cue has a cool story from when Axl was in LA Guns. He says Axl and Tracii Guns had no chemistry at all when it came to write new material. Axl had a melody and an idea for a song, but Tracii wouldn't get it and played his own thing in a different key. In the end, Axl invited Izzy at the studio to show Tracii what he meant. Axl started singing and Izzy started playing saying "you mean like this?". Axl said "yes, and this part..." and they wrote a song in 10 minutes. Another time Axl invited Slash, but he didn't go :lol:

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5 hours ago, EvanG said:

I have never stated that Axl wrote the guitar solos in November Rain, so I don't know if you're referring to me. All I was trying to say is that just because Slash is the lead guitarist, it doesn't mean he is responsible for every guitar melody and solo, like you and a few other posters were trying to indicate. Tone down the arrogance, Daisy.... and a Merry Christmas.

Have you ever tried to sing a guitar solo, a fast one? I can just see Rose committing lots of, ''dudududu whu woop whoop wee wee'' to tape!

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19 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Have you ever tried to sing a guitar solo, a fast one? I can just see Rose committing lots of, ''dudududu whu woop whoop wee wee'' to tape!

I don´t know if this happens or happened w GNR(I don´t believe that), but it's possible to compose a solo on the piano and then this solo can be translated into the guitar language. 

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26 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Have you ever tried to sing a guitar solo, a fast one? I can just see Rose committing lots of, ''dudududu whu woop whoop wee wee'' to tape!

I think what he means is that Axl will probably hum or sing something akin to a solo, probably not particularly fast, then Slash will take that and run with it, so to speak, interpret it in his own way that still delivers what Axl was hearing in his head more or less.  I don't think @EvanG meant that Axl sings the solo exactly as you hear it in the final mix. :lol: It would be like, stage 1 of the process.  They would work together on it, I;m guessing.

Edited by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle
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1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

What he means is a complete load of utter bollocks, rather like the Izzy DTJ theory.

Are you lonesome this Christmas, Daisy? You sound really frustrated. What's up, man? You wanna talk about it?

What I meant is exactly how @MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle explained it. Never have I even said that it was all Axl. I've even used the word together several times. And I've said several times in this topic that none of us can even know. You really should read more carefully.

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1 hour ago, EvanG said:

Are you lonesome this Christmas, Daisy? You sound really frustrated. What's up, man? You wanna talk about it?

What I meant is exactly how @MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle explained it. Never have I even said that it was all Axl. I've even used the word together several times. And I've said several times in this topic that none of us can even know. You really should read more carefully.

Taking your logic to its extremity we may as well conclude Dizzy Reed could have done the guitar solo in 'November Rain'. Taking it to its extremity... - why not? We know nothing after all! Slash is a prolific writer of guitar solos, is credited as 'lead guitarist' in Guns N' Roses, plays Guns N' Roses's solos live, appears to have the same tone as the solos on those Guns records, yet we do not actually know anything! Maybe Elvis or Jesus did those solos? Let's speculate about all sorts of bollocks?

Edited by DieselDaisy
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Love this song! So glad GNR added it live!

Now I've always wondered about the lyrics?

Would it be "Double Talking Jive, get the money mother fucker. Is Axl telling someone to get money from a mother fucker or is he calling someone a money mother fucker? Understand what I'm saying? I think it could be thought to be either way.

Anyway, any GNR song with cursing in it is cool by me.

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3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Taking your logic to its extremity we may as well conclude Dizzy Reed could have done the guitar solo in 'November Rain'. Taking it to its extremity... - why not? We know nothing after all! Slash is a prolific writer of guitar solos, is credited as 'lead guitarist' in Guns N' Roses, plays Guns N' Roses's solos live, appears to have the same tone as the solos on those Guns records, yet we do not actually know anything! Maybe Elvis or Jesus did those solos? Let's speculate about all sorts of bollocks?

It's like Slash telling Axl how to play his piano parts...

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Well I certainly wasn't trying to discredit Slash. He's more than capable of writing wonderful guitar solos and he's been credited with many of them. Simply saying that I THINK Axl is mostly responsible for those two songs in particular because he gave credit where credit was due, for the melodies. All those years of mud slinging, surely we would have heard otherwise. 

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