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6 minutes ago, spunko12345 said:

If there are conjoined twins and one is a pacifist and the other one goes around spitting at people and biting them how does that work out when it comes to heaven and hell?

How about if one's gay, one's straight and they share an arse? :lol: 

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@Lio @EvanG @Kwick1 @Ratam @janrichmond Thanks everybody, I appreciate it. yes one day at a time, I'm hopeful and grateful for every moment. 🙏

And spoken with some authority, as a big lump that has fallen over plenty of times 😂

I was forced to go through the Catholic indoctrination, classes on Saturday for my confirmation etc.,  when young and forced to attend church every weekend. Where I lucked out was my parents were not

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8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I wasn't trying to make a point of AD 33 as such, but that there is a specific timepoint when god decided to kill off him son to give all humans eternal life. Why that specific time in history? Why did god then decide that from now on people should be allowed to live forever while everybody who happened to have lived their lives before this seemingly arbitrary year were doomed to not get to live forever.

 Why at that time and place I don't know. God didn't decide from now on this and that. Nothing was established in one day. It was Peter (the first Pope) the apostles. They started the whole thing. But the crucial before and after moment was Emperor Constantine and Council of Nicea who established pretty much everything we know today, including things like AD or BC

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if there wasn't bad stuff on earth, there wouldn't be good stuff either.

good becomes good, when compared to the bad. Without the bad, there is no reference point.

on earth, people show "what they're worth", how they use "their talents". Not everyone will go to heaven. The scumbags, the liars, the backstabbers, the bullies: they won't be there. In heaven, only the few righteous are allowed.

The victims of the holocaust, will no doubt have earned their heaven with all the suffering they endured.

Jesus suffered too. Suffering is linked to god somehow. We can not understand suffering, but it has its purpose nonetheless, because the suffering of jesus is one of the most important aspects of his life.

Jesus lead a good life, taking care of the sick and the poor, and then he died horribly. I believe that is a template for a life that deserves heaven. Do good in life, and don't get your reward in life but in heaven instead. That's why good people die first, and why doing good does not get you rewards on earth.

Don't be fooled by succes: it is not a reward, but a test of god, to see if you would get conceited. If you remain modest, then this will be noticed.

All of the above amounts to a good life on earth. Even if the afterlife does not exist, one can not dismiss the benefits of leading a good life. Therefore I believe the bible is a good guide for life. It also provides something of a promise, that all the scumbags of the earth, all the unjust, the dictators, the liars etc, will rot in hell.

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9 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Well to the first question, I would just say I don't know what 4,000 years feels like to the soul detached from the body. Time could feel as it does for us, or it could go by in a blink, I don't know.

It seems a bit arbitrary, doesn't it? Or very human. To suddenly decide that, "nah, let's allow them back into paradise," after X number of years since Eve sinned. 

But of course, if you lived around AD 33 and you thought the end times were imminent, it seemed more plausible that the end times would be precluded by god sacrificing his son. Then it wasn't something god did at a specific time without any apparent reason, but a part of the end times process. So to people living back then it made more sense, and early christians were expecting something to happen imminently - they were like a doomsday cult. When it became obvious the apocalypse wasn't in a rush, they changed their beliefs to Jesus returning and christians keep waiting for that :lol:. Now, in hindsight, and seen through secular eyes, it all seems so man-made. A man-made myth about god opening up the gates of heaven before the apocalypse, created around AD 33 and making some sense then if you believed Jesus was god's son, but less and less sense, and more and more arbitrary, as years go by. 

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1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

It seems a bit arbitrary, doesn't it? Or very human. To suddenly decide that, "nah, let's allow them back into paradise," after X number of years since Eve sinned. 

But of course, if you lived around AD 33 and you thought the end times were imminent, it seemed more plausible that it would be precluded by god sacrificing his son. Then it wasn't something god did at a specific time without any obvious reason, but a part of the end times process. So to people living back then it made more sense, and early christians were expecting something to happen imminent. Now, in hindsight, and seen through secular eyes, it all seems so man-made. A man-made myth about god opening up the gates of heaven before the apocalypse, created around AD 33 and making some sense, but less and less sense as years go by. 

Well, in hindsight 33 AD was probably selected for a very important reason. It was one generation before the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD, which laid waste to Jerusalem and destroyed the temple (thus ending that era of the Jewish religion). Jesus had the line about "do you see all of these great buildings? Not one stone here will be left on another, every one will be thrown down." To a Jew in the 1st century, it probably did seem like the end of the world.

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23 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It seems a bit arbitrary

A bit arbitrary? That's an understatement. There were times (somewhat recent times) when there was not salvation for those who were not Catholic.

Jewish the 1st century seems like the end of the world? How about us in 2012? Remember that one? :lol:

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The argument from this ignorant poster is based on utter fallacy as it assumes the New Testament completely eradicates the Old Testament, whereas in reality it was a confirmation of the Old Testament. The Old Testament certainly speaks on salvation and sin - there are sinners and righteous throughout the Old Testament, e.g., (Abraham) ''believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness” (Genesis 15:6, cf. Romans 4:1–5, 9–10, 16). These furthermore are confirmed in the New Testament (cf. 1 Peter 1:10–12). Further, Christ's coming was a confirmation of Old Testament prophecy of the Davidic 'Messiah' (cf. Daniel, Enoch). To summarise, 

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Then He (Jesus) said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Luke 24:25–27

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11 hours ago, Padme said:

A bit arbitrary? That's an understatement. There were times (somewhat recent times) when there was not salvation for those who were not Catholic.

Jewish the 1st century seems like the end of the world? How about us in 2012? Remember that one? :lol:

I don't see how these two things are even remotely close. One event actually happened and was a mass slaughter and the most important religious building (the temple) was destroyed. 2012 came and went like a wet fart.

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10 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I don't see how these two things are even remotely close. One event actually happened and was a mass slaughter and the most important religious building (the temple) was destroyed. 2012 came and went like a wet fart.

I wasn't talking about the temple being destroy. I was just talking about end of the world bullshit predictions that have been going on for ever. 

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On 11/28/2020 at 9:55 AM, action said:

if there wasn't bad stuff on earth, there wouldn't be good stuff either.

good becomes good, when compared to the bad. Without the bad, there is no reference point.

In that case it would be better if nothing at all existed. Some of the bad stuff on earth is so horrific that no amount of good stuff can make it worth it.

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I had a friend who said Heaven and Hell was on earth. Sometimes I think she was so right!

I can't imagine sitting on a cloud for eternity or suffering in fire? It seems unreal to me.

Sometimes having religions is a good thing, but then again, so many people use their beliefs to cause trouble.

I think if there is a powerful God, he should have made one kind of people and one religion. If he thinks eventually we will all get along and find peace, that's never going to happen.

God is the parent and we are his kids and you know how that goes! Some of us have no common sense or care about others. How sad is that?

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