What if Axl had left the scene in 2001 until the reunion?

[gnfnrs1972]

8 hours ago, Order of Nine said:

So he talks back to a heckler.. big deal. His actions clearly don't match up with what your suggesting for almost 14 years. If it was only about playing stadiums and money then this would have transpired a long time ago. Have you heard Steven Tyler's interview on Stern? The problems we're deep and personal. Not having "icons" in the same band is something that I think he took pride in, giving a new group of players a spotlight. If your out to promote something you believe in and can stand behind it with conviction then the whole stadium vs arena thing becomes irrelevant. 

If Axl only did the above for a short period of time then of course that would hold more weight to your claims above. This is not the case, he went completely against the grain. Imo he tarnish anything, that was the most RnR/punk thing anyone has done in the past 20 years in mainstream rock, and it was against odds stacked against him. 

You helped me make my point, thank you. You say he gave a new group of players a spotlight. A new group of players are not Guns N Roses. Axl thought he was GNR, he is not. As far as Axl promoting the new group because he believed in them with conviction. Pardon me while I laugh my ass off. He hardly did a thing to promote anyone in the new band. Everyone one by one got tired of his shit and left. He didn't believe in anything besides his own ego. During rehearsals for the MTV music awards he was such an ass to them by saying your playing like you don't even want to be here. Then during the show his performance was the joke not theirs. Well they were the joke to but not because how they played but how they dressed and looked. Slash was so irreplaceable he tried to replace him with a cartoon character looking mfer. Also the biggest change came in the music industry during this 20 year period. It used to be about selling cd's. Now its about putting asses in the seats. Not many asses were in the seats because of any of the previous new members. I would get in to artist integrity but I'm tired of typing and if you believe Axl has any I wont even bother wasting my time arguing.

Edited February 4, 2018 by gnfnrs1972

[Order of Nine]

32 minutes ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

You helped me make my point, thank you. You say he gave a new group of players a spotlight. A new group of players are not Guns N Roses. Axl thought he was GNR, he is not. As far as Axl promoting the new group because he believed in them with conviction. Pardon me while I laugh my ass off. He hardly did a thing to promote anyone in the new band. Everyone one by one got tired of his shit and left. He didn't believe in anything besides his own ego. During rehearsals for the MTV music awards he was such an ass to them by saying your playing like you don't even want to be here. Then during the show his performance was the joke not theirs. Well they were the joke to but not because how they played but how they dressed and looked. Slash was so irreplaceable he tried to replace him with a cartoon character looking mfer. Also the biggest change came in the music industry during this 20 year period. It used to be about selling cd's. Now its about putting asses in the seats. Not many asses were in the seats because of any of the previous new members. I would get in to artist integrity but I'm tired of typing and if you believe Axl has any I wont even bother wasting my time arguing.

Axl is guns.. Guns may have not have been playing to packed stadiums with a different line up but having the old band fronted by someone other then Axl would have never even been a thought, irreplaceable vocalist. Idc who thinks the new band was or wasn't "Guns n Roses" I think it took balls to do what he did and he did it in spite of the fact he knew he would be hated for it. All the new guys that joined guns got a huge spotlight put on them that would have never happened without joining a high caliber mainstream rock band like Guns, so I'm getting a good laugh out of this with your irrational thought. They were a joke because of how they looked?? Ok, that's basically a really immature reason to judge a musician, especially someone like Bucket, who can run circles around people asleep and blindfolded. Sounds to me like your superficial and you can't get past your 80s nostalgia, hating a musician because of how they "look" or dress is something that you should look past after grade school. 

The change that came to the music industry has had an effect on all bands. The sold out stadium tours that are around today with bands like U2, AC/DC and Guns will eventually be a thing of the past, these bands are the last bands from the music industrys final bow before the internet/digital downloads took a hold. So of course Slash back in Guns will fill the seats. My point is Axl didn't care about that for how many years!!!! It's not always about money and what the "fans" want. I think your problem and many other problems that the fans have is that they only see things from thier perspective, they never even want to humor how it can be viewed from a musicians perspective. 

[-W.A.R-]

He would probably be even more out of shape both size and voice wise. Now if the reunion was in 2006 that could have been something.

You erase the disastrous 2002 tour and you have him resurface with the original line-up in 2006 (hopefully sans cornrows) and it would be like he never missed a beat.

[rocknroll41]

There's no way Axl would've been able to still perform if he had gone into hiding for another 15 straight years. Hell, he shoulda performed even more during that time. The lack of shows from 2002-2006 and again from 2007-2009 was such bullshit.

Edited February 4, 2018 by rocknroll41

[double talkin jive mfkr]

There was no reason for GNR to break up period - its a travesty of money and fame isolating everyone - i don't know if steven and erin was the catalyst but there is no reason to assume that they wouldn't have been able to continue to get progressively better with how the illusions went and the versatile reach they attained 

[ludurigan]

4 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Grab a comfy seat😉

Also where's the 🍿?

couldnt find steven emoticon

[Derick]

I had some good moments in this 2001-2014’ period with the band that I wouldn't trade anything that happened for a 15 years of hiatus. That’s ridiculus..No way Mr.Chow!

 

[gnfnrs1972]

2 hours ago, Order of Nine said:

Axl is guns.. Guns may have not have been playing to packed stadiums with a different line up but having the old band fronted by someone other then Axl would have never even been a thought, irreplaceable vocalist. Idc who thinks the new band was or wasn't "Guns n Roses" I think it took balls to do what he did and he did it in spite of the fact he knew he would be hated for it. All the new guys that joined guns got a huge spotlight put on them that would have never happened without joining a high caliber mainstream rock band like Guns, so I'm getting a good laugh out of this with your irrational thought. They were a joke because of how they looked?? Ok, that's basically a really immature reason to judge a musician, especially someone like Bucket, who can run circles around people asleep and blindfolded. Sounds to me like your superficial and you can't get past your 80s nostalgia, hating a musician because of how they "look" or dress is something that you should look past after grade school. 

The change that came to the music industry has had an effect on all bands. The sold out stadium tours that are around today with bands like U2, AC/DC and Guns will eventually be a thing of the past, these bands are the last bands from the music industrys final bow before the internet/digital downloads took a hold. So of course Slash back in Guns will fill the seats. My point is Axl didn't care about that for how many years!!!! It's not always about money and what the "fans" want. I think your problem and many other problems that the fans have is that they only see things from thier perspective, they never even want to humor how it can be viewed from a musicians perspective. 

Your first statement, Axl is Guns, shows me there is no reason to debate with you. Have fun in your own little world. Buh bye

[Order of Nine]

14 minutes ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

Your first statement, Axl is Guns, shows me there is no reason to debate with you. Have fun in your own little world. Buh bye

Cause no matter what you or anyone thinks about GNR from 2001 to 2015 that time period would have never happened if it was the rest of the old band with some other singer. 

Have fun being stuck in the 80s. 

[Tom2112]

5 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

i enjoyed the 2002 show i saw and the 2012 london show only really because they had deep cuts like think about you and 14 years only for those reasons there is a lot of empty wasted time from 2006-2009 - not until japan don't cry and duff's appearance then izzy's - was beyond stale for gnr as a whole 

 

as soon as bumblefoot frank and ashba came on the scene the brand and sound went took a total nose dive

the 2002 band at least sounded really fucking good live and even the CD era songs sounded 10 times better 

Completely subjective, I thought the 2006 era band was really good, a little raw but still consistent.

2009 on was slick gnr, sounded just like the recorded versions... But that doesn't really please the die hards who want raw warts and all gnr. Also the best those Chinese songs will ever be played.

2002, was fine but overall it sounded like a band who were never really comfortable playing the material AND Axls voice was really off.

2016, some sort of hybrid that's not quite slick and not raw either. Still not sure where I land with it.

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Tom2112

[DieselDaisy]

I've often wondered if unlimbering himself from the baggage of 'Guns N' Roses' would have been preferable. No dizzying height of expectation. No, attempting to construct a Guns N' Roses without Slash. 

Rose could have put out his weird industrial albums with his band of freaks, and you could hardly complain that ''it isn't GN'R'' as it wouldn't be: it would be a solo album or WAR or something else. 

[Tadsy]

10 hours ago, Order of Nine said:

Axl is guns.. Guns may have not have been playing to packed stadiums with a different line up but having the old band fronted by someone other then Axl would have never even been a thought, irreplaceable vocalist. Idc who thinks the new band was or wasn't "Guns n Roses" I think it took balls to do what he did and he did it in spite of the fact he knew he would be hated for it. All the new guys that joined guns got a huge spotlight put on them that would have never happened without joining a high caliber mainstream rock band like Guns, so I'm getting a good laugh out of this with your irrational thought. They were a joke because of how they looked?? Ok, that's basically a really immature reason to judge a musician, especially someone like Bucket, who can run circles around people asleep and blindfolded. Sounds to me like your superficial and you can't get past your 80s nostalgia, hating a musician because of how they "look" or dress is something that you should look past after grade school. 

The change that came to the music industry has had an effect on all bands. The sold out stadium tours that are around today with bands like U2, AC/DC and Guns will eventually be a thing of the past, these bands are the last bands from the music industrys final bow before the internet/digital downloads took a hold. So of course Slash back in Guns will fill the seats. My point is Axl didn't care about that for how many years!!!! It's not always about money and what the "fans" want. I think your problem and many other problems that the fans have is that they only see things from thier perspective, they never even want to humor how it can be viewed from a musicians perspective. 

"Axl is guns"????? 

Look, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, including you. But I can't take this post or the one before it seriously. 

The band between 01-15 had some decent moments (rare ones) Rock Am Ring 06 being pretty much the best show (only my opinion) in that time frame. However, being completely impartial (I like both Axl and slash equally! Yet understand they both fucked up in this whole situation) it's impossible to get away from the fact that none of the rare awesome moments In that time frame match anything from 87-93. 

People who share that opinion do so, because the 2 line ups in that time produced the majority of the music that took the band where it went. People could accept the illusion line up because the 2 members that weren't apart of it had either walked for personal reasons or weren't able to continue and that was satisfactory to the fans, especially when the music that was released was close to matching the standards already set by AFD. 

The back story leading to Slash leaving and then Duff and then the continuous line up changes and CD debacle is not palatable to most fans for very obvious reasons which have been discussed on here as nauseum. 

You don't agree with it, and that's fine! I'm not going to shoot you down. As I said we are all entitled to our opinions. in regards tote  Axl is guns statement, I love Axl as much as the next hardcore gnr fan! But he's not without fault, and only the blind would say he's guns! 

[Sydney Fan]

8 hours ago, Order of Nine said:

Cause no matter what you or anyone thinks about GNR from 2001 to 2015 that time period would have never happened if it was the rest of the old band with some other singer. 

Have fun being stuck in the 80s. 

I think had axl had released chinese in its original form by 02 we could potentially had cd2 and 3 before 2009. If that had occured we could have enough musical output to answer if axl is GNR.

[default_]

Didnt read all the replies but I kind of think thats what he should've done, specially now that we all know that nothing good came from the CD era, just a so so album.
Had they released a good amount of records I'd be against it even if I didnt like the albums, had he released music I'dl give 100% support for his ideals but that wasnt the case with only one record. I wouldnt even care for the lineup changes as we all know that that was Axl solo career. And it was.

Axl hurt himself, hut the band, hurt the brand and hurt the fans. CD was a huge waste of time even tho I like the record.

[Order of Nine]

10 hours ago, Tadsy said:

"Axl is guns"????? 

Look, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, including you. But I can't take this post or the one before it seriously. 

The band between 01-15 had some decent moments (rare ones) Rock Am Ring 06 being pretty much the best show (only my opinion) in that time frame. However, being completely impartial (I like both Axl and slash equally! Yet understand they both fucked up in this whole situation) it's impossible to get away from the fact that none of the rare awesome moments In that time frame match anything from 87-93. 

People who share that opinion do so, because the 2 line ups in that time produced the majority of the music that took the band where it went. People could accept the illusion line up because the 2 members that weren't apart of it had either walked for personal reasons or weren't able to continue and that was satisfactory to the fans, especially when the music that was released was close to matching the standards already set by AFD. 

The back story leading to Slash leaving and then Duff and then the continuous line up changes and CD debacle is not palatable to most fans for very obvious reasons which have been discussed on here as nauseum. 

You don't agree with it, and that's fine! I'm not going to shoot you down. As I said we are all entitled to our opinions. in regards tote  Axl is guns statement, I love Axl as much as the next hardcore gnr fan! But he's not without fault, and only the blind would say he's guns! 

He's guns in the sense that he IN FACT toured and released a record with a new band under the Guns name. That would have never transpired if the roles were reversed and the old band tried to replace him, that would of never happened. An impossibility.

[Order of Nine]

9 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

I think had axl had released chinese in its original form by 02 we could potentially had cd2 and 3 before 2009. If that had occured we could have enough musical output to answer if axl is GNR.

That's fair, however he already accomplished releasing and touring a CD for how many years with a new band?  

That could have never happened with the band replacing him, never. 

[-W.A.R-]

Axl = Axl. A very captivating and talented musician that as able to keep interest in what he was doing because of that.

However he was unsuccessful at reinventing GNR. None of his lineups are respected as GNR and neither is CD.

I think if anything him keeping the name stunted him from reinventing himself.

[Original]

11 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

Axl = Axl. A very captivating and talented musician that as able to keep interest in what he was doing because of that.

However he was unsuccessful at reinventing GNR. None of his lineups are respected as GNR and neither is CD.

I think if anything him keeping the name stunted him from reinventing himself.

He shoulda gone solo. W.A.R. or just Axl Rose.  It was clear he wanted to take a sharp left turn- that’s what solo shit is for.  See Robert Plant.  

[double talkin jive mfkr]

i think the original 5 are all fucking guns - the result we have now is because Axl thought only he was GUNS  - whereas in their early years they all brought their A game - putting things under the microscope to divide and conquer is treacherous and conniving at best 

not even jim wanted more than his co-musicians because they were all equal game 

[DeadSlash]

The only thing I wished was that there was more music.  

@RONIN I'm interested on how you feel about the other side of that question, how much better would this reunion have been if Slash and Duff had also disappeared until now?  Wouldn't seeing Slash/Duff on stage be THAT much more interesting if they had not overexposed and watered down their brands by releasing so much music between the break up and the reunion?

[F*ck Fear]

I just finished watching the bootleg from the first of the two gigs at Universal City in 2006 and have to say that even though I'm pretty content with the way things have turned out (lack of new music aside), I feel that had Chinese Democracy been released in 2001, a reunion happening in 2006 would have been bad ass!

[Nikki_Sixx]

On 5-2-2018 at 2:41 AM, Order of Nine said:

Cause no matter what you or anyone thinks about GNR from 2001 to 2015 that time period would have never happened if it was the rest of the old band with some other singer. 

Have fun being stuck in the 80s. 

At least the old band with a different singer would've saved us from Axl's cringeworthy vocals since 2001

Mickey says hi !

[Order of Nine]

15 minutes ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

At least the old band with a different singer would've saved us from Axl's cringeworthy vocals since 2001

Mickey says hi !

Axl has been the most consistent in his career since the AC/DC tour. 

[Nikki_Sixx]

22 minutes ago, Order of Nine said:

Axl has been the most consistent in his career since the AC/DC tour. 

Consistently cringeworthy !

[Order of Nine]

6 minutes ago, Nikki_Sixx said:

Consistently cringeworthy !

Consistent and better then he's done on any past tour.