Gnrcane Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) On 2/19/2018 at 2:37 PM, SoulMonster said: Brilliant work, @Blackstar. I think the band showed some legal awareness and maturity when they got it in contract allowing them to kick him out of the band later, the problem is that he could later claim he was out of his mind when he signed it, going for an annulment and hence forcing a settlement. It would be interesting to have a lawyer with knowledge of California law review the suit and explain what, exactly, gave Steven the leverage to force a settlement. In Florida, I know for a fact that being "out of your mind" on drugs or alcohol cannot be used as legal reasoning. You would actually have to have a mental illness and be determined to be mentally incompetent to understand the contract. Were they just worried that a judge/jury would ignore the law because they were unlikable? Edited February 25, 2018 by Gnrcane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, Gnrcane said: It would be interesting to have a lawyer with knowledge of California law review the suit and explain what, exactly, gave Steven the leverage to force a settlement. In Florida, I know for a fact that being "out of your mind" on drugs or alcohol cannot be used as legal reasoning. You would actually have to have a mental illness and be determined to be mentally incompetent to understand the contract. Were they just worried that a judge/jury would ignore the law because they were unlikable? That you for this, it was interesting and I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 On 2/20/2018 at 12:08 AM, Hollywood Gunner said: i wonder if we'll ever find out the exact details why hes not part of NITL. It hurts to see frank play his parts while hes sitting at home Common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houndfan Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Gnrcane said: It would be interesting to have a lawyer with knowledge of California law review the suit and explain what, exactly, gave Steven the leverage to force a settlement. In Florida, I know for a fact that being "out of your mind" on drugs or alcohol cannot be used as legal reasoning. You would actually have to have a mental illness and be determined to be mentally incompetent to understand the contract. Were they just worried that a judge/jury would ignore the law because they were unlikable? A part of the problem is that Steven was called in to sign over his rights without him having a lawyer present. He was given a huge stack of paper and told to sign. Any good attorney would have advised against signing it. This is similar to cases where a couple is about to get married and one party pulls out a prenuptual agreement and pressures the other person to sign at the last minute. In a divorce that agreement could be ruled invalid by a judge because there was no attorney to act in the best interests of the person who signed the prenup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnrcane Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Houndfan said: A part of the problem is that Steven was called in to sign over his rights without him having a lawyer present. He was given a huge stack of paper and told to sign. Any good attorney would have advised against signing it. This is similar to cases where a couple is about to get married and one party pulls out a prenuptual agreement and pressures the other person to sign at the last minute. In a divorce that agreement could be ruled invalid by a judge because there was no attorney to act in the best interests of the person who signed the prenup. I don't know how much water some of that reasoning holds. I guess it could depend on how the "pressure" is applied. Nobody held a gun to his head. What was the threat of what they would do if he didn't sign? There is a big difference between "pressure" and forcing somebody to sign something. Marriage will get treated differently due to naivety with the legal system, but in a business contract situation, the parties to a contract are held to a higher standard. They should know to get an attorney to help them in negotiations. Granted, a band made up of high school dropouts and drug addicts isn't exactly a typical corporation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Gunner Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 12 hours ago, RONIN said: There's a rumor that it may have been a Team Brazil decision. Not the first time they have made decisions on behalf of Axl Rose. "Chip Z'Nuff talks about GNR and Steven Adler in the latest issue of a Spanish magazine called Popular 1. He says Steven was preparing to play the whole tour but was kicked out by management and lawyers after he hurt his back at rehearsals." http://www.gunsnfnroses.com/index.php?/topic/25691-steven-adler-was-kicked-out-by-team-brazil-according-to-chip-znuff/& yup. i think thats more likely than just saying cuz hes a alcoholic drug addict like everyone else is implying. i think theres a bit more to it than just that. also maybe a bit to do with if he falls off the wagon duff and slash could too, and they wouldnt have sold that many more tickets with steven around. we can speculate all we want but id love to hear the actual story from all parties involved. and none of this vague bullshit like with what we got about izzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONIN Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Hollywood Gunner said: yup. i think thats more likely than just saying cuz hes a alcoholic drug addict like everyone else is implying. i think theres a bit more to it than just that. also maybe a bit to do with if he falls off the wagon duff and slash could too, and they wouldnt have sold that many more tickets with steven around. we can speculate all we want but id love to hear the actual story from all parties involved. and none of this vague bullshit like with what we got about izzy Agreed. My guess is that it's probably the same deal as 1990. They (Axl, Duff, and Slash) just don't like Steven and do not want him involved w/ GnR. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Slash/Duff decision to throw him under the bus again. "No honor among thieves" fits these guys pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautifulanddamned Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I always got the feeling that Adler is all Id. He just doesn't have a lot of restraint in any capacity. And that is hard to deal with for a bunch of guys who have been fighting that part of themselves for a while. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 6 hours ago, Hollywood Gunner said: yup. i think thats more likely than just saying cuz hes a alcoholic drug addict like everyone else is implying. i think theres a bit more to it than just that. also maybe a bit to do with if he falls off the wagon duff and slash could too, and they wouldnt have sold that many more tickets with steven around. we can speculate all we want but id love to hear the actual story from all parties involved. and none of this vague bullshit like with what we got about izzy They can't trust him. Duff took him on tour with Loaded and he went off on a bender. The reunion/tour was just too important to have to rely on Adler having it together, for real, this time. On top of that, he just seems obnoxious and can't keep his mouth shut. He wouldn't be shy to tell them what he thinks they should do or what he wants to do or run to the radio to tell everyone about it if they say no. He couldn't even get through the guest appearances without being like that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Gunner Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, Modano09 said: On top of that, he just seems obnoxious and can't keep his mouth shut. wasnt that and going off on benders what GNR was built on tho? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holographic Universe Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I believe the signing of the paper was intended to shock him into soberiety, hence why nonlawyer was present. The band didn’t truly intend to fuck him or kick him out of the band. This sounds like Axl idea and a half baked one at that, and the band paid the price for that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I have said it many times before here but it is hard not to detect a high level of hypocrisy in Adler's dismissal. Duff with his exploding pancreas and Slosh as naked as Adam being chased around a holiday resort by ''little devils'' are going to boot their drummer out for (lo and behold) drug abuse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 17 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I have said it many times before here but it is hard not to detect a high level of hypocrisy in Adler's dismissal. Duff with his exploding pancreas and Slosh as naked as Adam being chased around a holiday resort by ''little devils'' are going to boot their drummer out for (lo and behold) drug abuse! They've also said many times that the issue was his drug use making him unreliable. They didn't care what he did as long as he was pulling his weight and he wasn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Modano09 said: They've also said many times that the issue was his drug use making him unreliable. They didn't care what he did as long as he was pulling his weight and he wasn't. If unreliability was the issue then Rose would have been sacked years ago. Again, hypocritical. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: If unreliability was the issue then Rose would have been sacked years ago. Again, hypocritical. Axl and Adler aren't exactly on the same level of importance. And their issue was that when it was time to record, Adler couldn't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnrcane Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: If unreliability was the issue then Rose would have been sacked years ago. Again, hypocritical. 1 minute ago, Modano09 said: Axl and Adler aren't exactly on the same level of importance. And their issue was that when it was time to record, Adler couldn't do it. Also, Adler was fired (or whatever they want to call it) before UYI was finished being recorded. Axl's issues started on the UYI tour from everything I've read or remember from back then. In a way he was sacked when Slash and Duff left. He kept the name but Velvet Revolver was kind of like GNR without Axl (and really would have been if Izzy had stayed in VR). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houndfan Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 13 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said: I believe the signing of the paper was intended to shock him into soberiety, hence why nonlawyer was present. The band didn’t truly intend to fuck him or kick him out of the band. This sounds like Axl idea and a half baked one at that, and the band paid the price for that decision. If they intended to shock him I'm sure they did when he found out they threw him out with just a $2000 payment. That always sounded like he was given the bum's rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order of Nine Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Adler seems like he's matured very little since the early 90s. He sounds off kilter lately. I wouldn't expect him back other then a sit in here or there, if that. I don't have a good feeling about him at all. To the comment about Rose being unreliable.. with starting shows in time and meeting deadlines with tours??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONIN Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) Rose delayed the release of Illusions by over a year. That played a huge factor in Izzy losing interest after he turned in his work in late '89. Dismissing Adler because he wasn't ready to record a single for charity is a bit of a stretch given what Axl was doing. At least Adler showed up to the Chicago '89 sessions. The weird thing for me is why they (Axl) felt the need to demote him to an employee instead of just having him sit out UYI. The way that entire thing played out is super shady. Probably not a coincidence that Doug Goldstein was involved in Adler's firing. The following year, Axl and Slash give Izzy a contract to sign saying his royalties would be reduced and he quits. "It was made clear to me by Axl that he and Slash would steer the machine, control the videos, the direction of the band, everything, and that I had to put up or step out," Stradlin says. "So I said, `Fine, I'll go home and paint."' http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1993-02-26/entertainment/9303185116_1_izzy-stradlin-axl-rose-rick-richards Recounting the first rehearsals with Matt: "Izzy was around, but not like he used to be. When Izzy met Matt they got along fine, but it was under the condition that the decision had already been made: it was all okay, but I think Izzy felt dictated to - and he hated that. Izzy was pretty fragile from the time he came back to the band until he left, and as I look back, this whole shift probably didn't sit entirely well with him." [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York, p.311] In '95, Duff and Slash are given contracts that demote them to employees. If Adler's firing was a one off, then you could accept the band's version of events. But there's a pattern of legal shenanigans with GnR. Edited February 26, 2018 by RONIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindy1985 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Steven is a good guy but he behaves as a child. He says many things about Gnr and how they treated him...and we agree that didn't behave him very well,but if they call him again to play, he will, no matter what he said. I dont think that he is reliable... for me is a good guy but a bit confused. Except that.maybe he is the only guy who trully wants the reunion of 5. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slosh13 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) Reading all the quotes, one thing stands out -- Slash and Duff's quotes were consistent about Steven. Based on that, I tend to side with them with regards to helping Steven. They did care about him and tried to help him as much as they could, but there does come a point when enough's enough. There is the hypocrisy, the other guys were on substance abuse, but they also knew when they had to suspend activities to play. Steven didn't. That was the problem - I'm not sure Steven understood that and boy, he really does come across as naive. Even today. Interesting to note that Slash and Duff would sign contracts that would ostracise themselves from the band a few years later and didn't Slash profess to not knowing exactly what he signed? Edited March 2, 2018 by Slosh13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RONIN Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 10 hours ago, Slosh13 said: Interesting to note that Slash and Duff would sign contracts that would ostracise themselves from the band a few years later and didn't Slash profess to not knowing exactly what he signed? Shady legal shenanigans are the lifeblood of this band. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony adler Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I would like to point out that the band said Steven could not play and was “0ut of it” while recording illusions, however, when they took a break from recording 89-90?, they played ‘farm aid’ and that band never sounded tighter, Steven in particular sounded awesome, I get upset and sad every time I watch the farm aid two song set( in someone’s book they even make it a point to say Steven didn’t know the song ‘down on the farm’ and winged it,( if that is the case he is the greatest drummer of all time,( with respect to John bonham), I never believe just rumors , get the facts,ie, good quality video and judge for myself, the truth is in the middle, gnr at that time could afford the best legal team around and they chose to settle instead of fighting for what was right for them ( very telling) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Bronchitis Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 I am convinced Adler's drug habit was the perfect excuse for Slash and Duff to get rid of him. They were not happy with his musical abilities anymore. His approach to new material was not well received. If we take in consideration what he described in his book about not including him in the creating process for UYI in 89 just being told what to play. And also Niven latest interviews support Adler's claim. All of this regardless of what people says about those UYI versions with Steven, Matt enhanced the material and provided the epic ones (Locomotive, Coma, Etc) what they needed and what the others looked for with the exception of Izzy. We know what he thought of those, don't we? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony adler Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I know what I hear with my ears , and he ( Steven) has a lot of talent , but his habits and his aloofnes overall hurt his career, and he made it look easy , go listen to the ‘japanese Experiment ‘’ you can hear Steven in his prime really clear, up above me , sorry , agree to disagree respectfully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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