Matt Sorum Quotes on GnR ('96 - present) - Timeline of Firing

[RONIN]

To celebrate the momentous occasion of Former GnR Employee/Additional Musician Matt Sorum's upcoming book, here are some interesting quotes of his (to fact check when his book comes out). 

 

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When I was hired in GNR, it was hell in the band and I patched things up. When Izzy left, I wasn't happy. I spent hours on the phone with him, asking him not to leave us. And when he did the 5 shows with us to replace Gilby, I said: "Wow, this guy is a part of the chemistry, when he plays, it sounds totally like Guns N' Roses." I replaced Steven Adler and many people said Use your Illusion is very different from Appetite For Destruction. It wouldn't have been constructive to do Appetite 2. Many people also said I'm better than Steven. No, I only play in a different way.

http://www.oocities.org/rattlesnake_suitcase/matthr96.htm

 

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ON PEOPLE SAYING GNR SUCKS (1996):

What is the band of the month right now? Smashing Pumpkins?

 I think that if Guns N' Roses never existed, there would never have been Nirvana. Alternative bands are spitting on us, but at this time it was Guns N' Roses that was an alternative band and opened the doors. There would never have been the Smashing Pumpkins too. I think there's a lot of similarities between this guy and'¦ what is the name of this guy from the Smashing Pumpkins?

If you asked him, I don't think he would admit it, but I'm sure we had a big influence on him. That's really what I think. They opened for us in Chicago in 1991, and at this time, they were nothing at all. Today, I think they are a great band, even if they fired their drummer, who was one of my favorites. Is Guns N' Roses cool or not? I don't know and I don't care. We did a lot more than what all those bands did and I'm proud of it. Even if we don't sell any copy of the next album, I will be very proud of what we did. 

http://www.oocities.org/rattlesnake_suitcase/matthr96.htm

 

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MATT SORUM: It got really bad. The band was going down the toilet. We grew up listening to great bands like Led Zeppelin and the Stones. Guns N’ Roses made that kind of music and the lifestyle we wanted–rock music, drugs, and women. You see these bands today talking about the excess and shit on VH1. It’s all, “Waah, waah, whine, whine.” It wasn’t “waah”–it was a blast.

MATT SORUM: We had limos on-call 24 hours, burgers at the Trump Tower that cost $35. The first night we played Giants Stadium, there was one pinball machine and a few bottle of booze backstage. Axl came in and said, “This isn’t the Rolling Stones!” So the next night there’s a full casino, tons of lobster, and champagne flowing everywhere.

MATT SORUM: We’d spend $100,000 on parties. For two and a half years, there was something every night. One night was Greek night–four greased-up, muscle-bound guys carried in roast pig. I was so pissed off–I love pigs.

MATT SORUM: I had produced [techno songstress] Poe and there were drum loops in the songs, and Axl wanted that. But Slash is a rock guitarist. He doesn’t want to do techno-industrial.

MATT SORUM: Axl got metaphysical and started spending a lot of time in Sedona, Arizona. These people were taking advantage of a guy with millions to blow on lunacy.

[SPIN 1999]

 

 

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According to Matt, he walked out after a massive argument with Axl - about Slash. They had been talking in the studio when Paul Huge remarked he had seen Slash play with his band, the Snakepit, on the David Letterman show the previous night and that it had “sounded like shit and looked like shit.” Says Matt now: “He was just bagging on Slash. I said, 'Listen motherfucker, when I'm sitting in the room, I'd appreciate it if you don't fucking say shit about Slash. He's still my friend. You can't even hold a fucking candle to that fucking guy. He's got more talent in his little toe than you, motherfucker, shut up!' And then Axl got in my face. I said, 'You know what, Axl, man? You're fucking smoking crack if you think this band's GN'R without Slash. You're gonna go play 'Sweet Child O' Mine' with fucking Paul Huge? Sorry, dude, it ain't gonna sound right. Fucking 'Welcome to the Jungle' without Slash?' [Axl] says, 'I'm Guns N' Roses - I don't need Slash'. I said, 'You know what? No, you aren't'. We got into a big pissy match; it went onto a bunch of other bullshit for about another 20 minutes. And then he finally said, 'Well, are you gonna fucking quit?' I said, 'No, I don't fucking quit'. And then he said, 'Well, then you're fucking fired.

“Paul Huge chased me out to the parking lot and said, 'What the fuck, man? Just come back in and apologise!' I said, 'Fuck you, Yoko! I'm gone!' And that was it. I went home to my fucking six-level palatial rock star estate with two elevators and my Porsche. I was producing a band called Candlebox at the time, they were living in my house. And I said, 'I just got fired'. They said, 'Ah, fuck he'll call you back', and I said, 'No, not this time'. Cos he'd fired me before but he always called me back. I said, 'No, I don't think so'. And about a month later I got the letter from the lawyers.” - MICK WALL'S BOOK

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- From an "alleged" GnR insider on Matt's firing [from a source who was actually there to witness everything firsthand]:

I think most of it actually was true tho I'm not sure about the Slash on Letterman bit. I thought the Matt fight was around Jan or Feb. ? of '97. Slash had left the previous fall. Matt was in a pissy mood, he didn't want to go to the studio, it was his gf's birthday or something, but did when Axl called of course, and then Axl was just playing piano. Matt was steaming. He said something to one of the crew about expecting to get fired that day before it even happened. I think they started arguing before Paul started badmouthing Slash and it was just the straw that broke the camel's back. They all really hated Huge, Matt and Slash especially. And I think the argument went on for quite awhile, lots of shouting, before the 'are you going to quit? you're fired' bit. And Paul did follow him out to the parking lot, trying to get him to come back. Somebody told me Axl was peeking around the corner watching the whole thing. (  )

I saw Matt in May (97) and he was acting like he was still in the band. He really deflated when I told him I knew what went down. He probably already had the letter by then. But that said, Doug was also still saying for months after that that Matt's participation wasn't ruled out, even while Vrenna, Abruzzese, etc, were around. With Axl, the rule is to just wait it out. Matt (and everybody else) had probably been fired a half-dozen times before. As for Matt sounding like he has a connection, they all know the people still in the loop, I'm sure Matt would have heard from a number of people that Axl wasn't happy with his Spin quotes.

http://www.gunsnfnroses.com/index.php?/topic/5291-matt-sorums-account-of-leaving/

 

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[2001]

I never thought The Cult got their full shake; I thought they should've been way more successful as a band. A lot of people were influenced by Ian a lot of people (by) his persona and his stage thing. He gave Axl his first headband. He told him to take that puffy hair and comb it straight, put that headband on. Because all those other bands in L.A. were doing it. If you watch the 'Welcome to the Jungle' video, you can see the difference in Axl's hair between that and 'Sweet Child of Mine.'"

Q: What happened with Guns N' Roses?

A: "There was so much time going by. We ended the tour in the summer of '93. Me, Slash, Gilby (Clarke, another GNR guitarist) and Duff spent some time writing some music, and Axl didn't like it. Then me and Slash went and did the Snakepit album and all this political (expletive) started happening. And years and years were going by, like three years. And I was just hanging out in Hollywood and partying. Finally, me and Duff put another band together called Neurotic Outsiders, and as soon as we did that Axl called us back into the studio. So we started rehearsing with Guns we'd show up every night and Axl would come in at like midnight and we'd rehearse until six in the morning, seven, eight o'clock in the morning. It was ridiculous. My drug use was getting out of control. Everyone was just trying to stay up because of the ridiculous hours. Then Slash didn't want to come down to rehearsal, and he and Axl were having some differences in the musical direction.

In '97 I got into a little bit of an argument with Axl about the state of the band. He'd brought in another guitar player, Paul Huge, and none of us really wanted to play with him. Axl really wanted him in the band and we didn't really want to play with the guy. Me and Duff were showing up, trying to be professional and get the work done but it just didn't seem to be going anywhere, and obviously it still hasn't. I'm so glad I left because it was just stagnant. It didn't make any sense to be a musician to be sitting there not being able to put any of your creative energy out to the world. All my stuff was on some tapes on a shelf and four years had gone by. I was still making a lot of money. The band was paying me really well, and I was a member. I was getting a big check every month and living the high-life up in a big six-level house with a Porsche and all my (expletive). One day I just said (expletive) this. I want to play you know, let's go! Me and Axl had an argument and I said, 'You should get Slash back and we should put the band back together. Get out there and do it.' He was like, 'I don't need Slash.' And I said, 'Well I think you do.' And he asked me, 'Are you gonna quit?' And I said, 'No I'm not going to quit.' And he said, 'Well you're fired.' So I left, and I remember walking out the door and I went back to my six-level palatial estate, where I was producing a band called Candlebox, they were in my house. And I said, 'I've just been fired from Guns N' Roses.' And we sat down and we celebrated."

Q: Did you think the band had gotten sort of bloated toward the end?

A: "With all the horn players and (expletive)? That was boring, wasn't it? I wanted to kill those (expletive) girls by the end of that tour. They were in my dressing room. Behind my drum riser, I used to have my own room and I had a bar in there and I used to have little groupie chicks running around naked. Then these (expletive) girl horn players and background singers came on the tour, and they used to have to sit in my room sitting down there doing their makeup. And Axl was doing all these costume changes and I'm like, 'What happened to this (expletive) band?' So finally we all agreed to get rid of the horn players. We did a tour after that, the 'Skin and Bones' tour. That was our anti-statement to Axl: 'Let's get rid of these (expletive) horn players.' But I understood a lot of what Axl was doing. He wanted to heighten; he wanted to cross Guns over into super group. And he was very smart about the way he did it. He used to bring artists onstage with us: Elton (John), Brian May, Lenny Kravitz, Stephen Tyler and Joe Perry. And his whole thing was you are who you hang out with. To a certain degree, I think the band achieved super group status because of the strategic things that Axl always thought up. It was his thing to put out the double album very smart guy, very intelligent. At times it gets the best of him. I don't know WHAT he's thinking right now. I don't know where his head's gone, I can't get inside his head. He's created some sort of mystique for himself that's actually legendary now."

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/jun/28/seven_questions_with/

 

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Matt: Axl used to make us wait for hours before we went on stage. You can imagine being a drummer getting ready to go up before 50,000 people, but you don't know when to turn on. The show time is 9:00 and Axl would show up at 10:30, so your adrenal glands are pumping and you're constantly on edge with this nervous energy, and he keeps you on edge. I think somewhere deep inside he knew that was part of how he got this amazing rock 'n' roll energy out of the band. When we hit the stage, a lot of times we were pissed off at each other. I wouldn't even look at him. Then he would leave us on stage and take off. I'm sure everyone has heard about the stuff that went on. It was nuts. We'd go into these ten- or fifteen-minute jams waiting for him to come back

[surviving Super Stardom, Modern Drummer, September 2001]

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"We weren't getting along. (laughs) We weren't playing live. I wanted to get out and play. But no one else wanted to play so we..." (Matt, Lost Rose, 11/21/01)

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"'Paul Huge walked into the studio and made a bad comment about Slash,' says Sorum. I said, 'You don't say that when I'm in the room.' Then Axl laid in, I argued with him and it was over. Huge followed me out into the parking lot and said, 'Come back.' I said, 'I can't come back, he's fired me. Do you feel good about breaking up one of the greatest bands that ever lived?'" (Q Magazine, 05/01)

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"I came home, and I said 'I've just been fired'. I remember what time of the year it was... I think it was summer time. Might have been April... March or April. I think so, 1997." (Matt, Lost Rose, 11/21/01)

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"'I've phoned Axl 4 times to let him know I'm still here,' Matt rues, 'but Axl, he's a... private... person.'" (Matt, UK Teletext, 08/25/01)

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On the subject of Axl Rose (after Duff and Slash mention they haven't seen Axl since the late 90's):

Matt: "I ran into him a little while ago ['99/2000?] at a bathroom at the Standard Hotel in Los Angeles and we had a little talk. It wasn't great..." - Velvet Revolver interview MTV 2004

 

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Matt: GN’R turned into a Gestapo – It was run by one guy who had his vision of what Guns was supposed to be, at that point. In this band, we like hanging out together and playing music with each other, it’s like we can’t wait to come up with a new riff. With Guns, we’d come up with a new riff and Axl would be like, “That sucks!" [breaking The Big Machine, Metal Edge January 2005].

 

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 Thursday, April 13, 2006

Then last night I went to a club called 6 and 8s.

While getting out of the cab I run into Sean Lennon who was leaving and when inside there was AXL ROSE. Oh my God.

I hadn't seen him in at least 6 years.
I walked over and said Hello.
We shoke hands.
And it was pleasant.
Later that evening I ended up in a loft somewhere in the East Village.
Where Axl was again.
We spoke for quite sometime. And it was nice to clear somethings up.
I told him how great of a frontman he was while I was in the band and no hard feelings from me at all.
It was an all around
Good vibe I think.

After the party ended. Axl gave me a
Ride back to my hotel
In his suburban.

- Matt's blog [deleted]

 

 

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"That's been 13 years since I've played in that band, and I've done five, six albums since I played in that band and 10 tours, and Axl hasn't done shit, so I don't know what to tell you." —Sorum, when asked about GN'R reunion rumors in 2007.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/12-nastiest-things-former-gnr-bandmates-have-said-about-each-other-20151112

 

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[2008]

Matt: I've got a newfound liking and love for Axl Rose. You can print that. [laughing] I've said a couple of bad things about Axl that probably have come back to bite me in the ass. You know the one thing I know about Axl Rose, as much of a dick as he was at times, the stadium was usually sold out. [laughs] A little difference between those two guys [Scott Weiland and Axl Rose]. I'm talking 50 thousand, not 5 thousand. [laughs] You know, I could deal with that. A jet. You know, not just a jet, but a 727. My own limo...and a guy to carry my shit. [laughs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbPf_hEnUI4

 

 

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[2011]

"The very, very end of it was us trying to make this record [that became 'Chinese Democracy'] that came out 15, 16, 17 years later. There was a certain style of music that... Axl was always trying to push the envelope. Even with 'Use Your Illusion I' and 'II', we moved forward and people always go back to [the classic GN'R debut] 'Appetite For Destruction'. But if you look at 'Use Your Illusion', it was more of an epic kind of undertaking. Axl, in his mind, would want it to be this epic, stadium, worldwide-renowned supergroup, and he looked at bands like Queen and Led Zeppelin and The Rolling Stones as, sort of, the benchmark for that. So we created these opuses, these epic numbers like 'November Rain', to really, sort of, become this bigger thing. When we went into the next particular record, Axl really wanted to take it to another level, he wanted to experiment with electronics and stuff like that, and we were like, 'Oooh... Now we're getting into a little bit of a gray area'. He was really into Nine Inch Nails, and we were starting to get a little bit uncomfortable with the musical direction. And at that point, we had written a bunch of songs that were more like 'Appetite For Destruction' - stripped down, raw rock and roll; we almost wanted to go back to our roots. But Axl was really pushing to go someplace else. [He] was so obsessed with where the music was going. And I remember it was [after] about four or five years of rehearsals, and Axl came in and said, 'I think we've got one good verse'. [Laughs] And we all looked at each other. And at that point, me and Slash had written a bunch of songs together, which became the first Slash's Snakepit album. Slash said, 'Matt, let's just go do a tour and make a record'. 'Cause Slash said, 'Axl doesn't like the songs'. So we made a record, we put it out, and Slash went on tour. And that was the straw that broke the camel's back."

He continued, "In retrospect, Slash was out doing a bunch of stuff. If the band would have stepped closer together, maybe we could have figured out what to do, but we were starting to divide; there were solo projects going on, me and Duff [McKagan, bass] did Neurotic Outsiders. But we were all sort of frustrated; we couldn't get moving again. They had a bit of a blowout, and I was there, sitting right there on the couch, and I listened to them going through this whole shenanigans. And that was it. And it was over. It was horrible. And then after Slash left, I was in rehearsals - me and Duff were sticking around, trying to figure out how to do it - and I just said, 'We need to get Slash back', and Axl said, 'No, I don't think so'. And at that point I was out. And then I went home and I drank heavily with this band called Candlebox who was living at my house at the time. I remember I came home, I stopped by a liquor store and I walked in and I said, 'Axl just fired me, and I think this time it's for real'. [Laughs] 'Cause he had fired me many times before, and he used to call me, too, and say it like this: [imitating Axl's screeching voice] 'You're fired' in that classic voice. It was awesome. I wish I had it on tape. It was killer. But he would call back and go, 'See you at rehearsal tomorrow?' [Laughs]"

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/matt_sorum_on_the_last_days_of_guns_n_roses.html

 

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[2013]

Faster Louder: When you were brought in to replace Steven Adler did you get to meet him?

I didn’t meet Steven right away because that wasn’t a good break for them. We had some tumultuous times over the years and things were said in the press but years later we’ve finally been able to come to terms with it, but I always said to him, “Look Steven, if it wasn’t me it would have been somebody else because you were out and somebody was gonna be in.” But we went to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame together and that was great and I felt really good about that. So it was a time being there with him and he was very gracious and I played one of his songs, ’[Mr.] Brownstone’. And I was able to give him a little dig when I did my speech because he fucked with me for so many years.

Faster Louder: I know that in more recent interviews he’s said that he feels better about it now, but at the time he was pretty upset.

"It’s like somebody’s fucking your ex-girlfriend. You know what I mean? It’s like the same kind of feeling. You don’t like it but you meet the guy and you go, 'Hey, he’s not a bad guy.' It’s always been my counterpoint to it. You have a preconceived notion of someone until you meet someone and talk to them.

http://fasterlouder.junkee.com/matt-sorum-i-couldnt-turn-down-guns-n-roses/832930

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by RONIN

[RONIN]

Quick takeaways:

- The cringeworthy dig at Steven during Matt's speech at the rock HOF was intentional.

- Sorum was probably trying to get back into the band ~ '97-01 and Axl was ignoring his calls

- Axl may have been pissed at Matt's quotes on the Spin 1999 Axl feature (Matt apparently told this to a fan in '99). Which quote pissed him off most? The one about his beloved "Yoda" and how "he was blowing millions on lunacy". Axl "allegedly" retaliates by listing him as an "Additional Musician" on Live Era which came out later that year. 

- Sorum encounters Axl randomly in '99/2000 and 2006.

 ----- Sidenote: That means Slash, Matt, Izzy, and Steven had all met with Axl or intermediaries like Beta in 2006. What are the chances of this happening? There were reunion rumors flying everywhere on this forum in 2006. Was there a reunion planned in 2006? - there is some evidence it may have been on the table. 

More info on the rumored 2006 reunion here: 

 

- It appears that after the 2006 meeting, there was probably another fallout between Axl and Sorum soon afterwards. Might have something to do with this:

 

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Metromix Chicago recently interviewed VELVET REVOLVER frontman Scott Weiland. When asked about his relationship (or lack thereof) with GUNS N' ROSES singer Axl Rose, Weiland replied, "Oh, man. I have never spoken to him, but I've gotten messages from him through [VELVET REVOLVER/ex-GUNS N' ROSES drummer] Matt Sorum. They speak every once in awhile. I know that [Axl] was a fan of STP back in the early days of GUNS. Well, I guess it wasn't the early days; it was just sort of mid-days, early-mid days ... I think that — depending on his mood — he vacillates between being into the idea [of Weiland playing with former GUNS members] and kinda diggin' it and then hating my guts."

After reading the interview, the webmaser of the GUNS N' ROSES fan site Here Today… Gone To Hell! contacted Beta Lebeis (Axl's assistant and close friend) to check the validity of Scott's quote. Here is her response:

"Though Axl spoke with Matt roughly a year ago, Scott doesn't interest Axl, there are no messages, no vacillating, no messages were given to Matt by Axl for Scott. In fact earlier on the same night that Axl ended up speaking with Matt when Scott saw Axl enter the same club that he and Matt were in, Scott immediately RAN out of the club which Axl's guests found mildly amusing, beyond that nothing. I was the one whom Slash spoke with when he came to Axl's house in 2005 and expressed his negative comments regarding the others in his new band. Behind the scenes it is a very different story than what the public is sold."

 

and this:

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"That's been 13 years since I've played in that band, and I've done five, six albums since I played in that band and 10 tours, and Axl hasn't done shit, so I don't know what to tell you." —Sorum, when asked about GN'R reunion rumors in 2007.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/12-nastiest-things-former-gnr-bandmates-have-said-about-each-other-20151112

 

 

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- The decision to fire Sorum may have been on Axl's mind since late '96 when they were gearing up to release the album with Slash. The Paul Huge/Sorum showdown in March/April '97 was probably just the last straw.

 

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Duff: [...] Matt was never a full member of the band, he was on an ejector seat and Axl said : 'I'm gonna fire him.' I answered that this decision required more than one person to be taken since we were a band, that he alone didn't own the majority. All of this because Matt told him he was wrong. The truth is, Matt was right, and Axl wrong indeed.

Hard Force: Wrong about what?
Duff: About schedules and the way Axl was late for the next album." (Duff, Hard Force, 1999)

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H.R.: Duff told us that the deadline is for Spring 97...
Matt: Absolutely! We want to tour next summer. [...] And now, we work together and an album will be released in 97.

H.R.: How would you react if you received a fax saying that Slash is fired?
Matt: It would be difficult. 

(Matt, 09/23/96)

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"We're definitely getting geared up to do another record," says Sorum, who brings his all-star side band, Neurotic Outsiders, to the Warehouse on Sunday. "We're already starting to make tour plans. We've got a possible tour starting in South America in January and then we're going to stop and finish the record and probably tour next summer." (Matt, Toronto Sun, 09/04/96)

 

Axl tossed out the '96 album with Slash in early January '97 - this would have immediately halted their touring plans in South America for January '97 and delayed the album indefinitely from a projected summer '97 release. Something serious concerning the band's future went down between Axl and Duff/Matt between Duff's December 1996 interview (below) and the first two weeks of January '97 (new drummer auditions started in mid-January). 

My guess, Duff/Matt wanted to tour and complete the '96 album [the initial plan after Slash quit] but Axl changed his mind - he didn't want to tour and opted to reboot the project entirely by scrapping the '96 album. 

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12/17/1996

DUFF chat

Duff, are the rumors true about you not being in GNR?

             DUFF McKAGEN 

I will not elaborate, but yes I am & everything is going to be cool as far as that is concerned.

Duff, what are Axl's plans for GNR now?

             DUFF McKAGEN 

Ask AXL!

Duff, do you feel like you have to jump when Axl says to, or you are out?

             DUFF McKAGEN 

Absolutely not when it comes to AXL's permission. What was printed in Rolling Stone is incorrect & I'm pissed off about it.

Is Guns N' Roses going to release something new soon?

             DUFF McKAGEN 

We are starting the record in February.

Guns is doing a record so of course Matt & I will be in the studio for at least 3-4 weeks in February

Duff, do you think that GNR is better off now than it was a year ago?

             DUFF McKAGEN

 Yes, absolutely.

Duff, do you have any song titles or an album title for the new GNR CD?

             DUFF McKAGEN 

We have song titles, but no album title. I don't want to let the cat out of the bag.

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=2968

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"[The 1996 tracks are] not something I would want to approach (without Slash), because, at the time, there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. [...] That's the reason why that material got scrapped." (Axl, press release, 08/14/02)

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Matt's situation turned out to be uncertain as well, as the frequent Prince collaborator Michael Bland auditioned for the drumstool in January.

"I auditioned for them in '97. I think Josh Freese was originally supposed to do the gig. I went to the NAMM show [on 01/16-19/97], and I ran into Axl at the Anaheim Convention Center in California, and then I went to the audition later that night. He was very cool to me. He didn't seem at all like the person the press makes him out to be. The audition went well, but I knew they weren't going to hire me, with them being a bunch of skinny white dudes...[laughs]" (Drummerworld, 09/06)

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"MTV Brazil reported late last month that Guns N' Roses had unsuccessfully made overtures to Sepultura drummer Igor Cavalera." (All-Star Online, 04/08/97)

 

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[...] 'At the risk of sounding like a sleazy music biz guy, I met with Axl last week to hear their new demos,' said Moby while he was discussing the future of electronica on a panel at Austin, Texas' South by Southwest Conference. 'They're writing with a lot of loops, and believe it or not, they're doing it better than anybody I've heard lately.'" (Moby, Allstar, 03/18/97)

 The stuff I've heard is much more concise than, say, 'November Rain.' Not bombastic. Very stripped down. Very intense. It's not hard-rock music in the way that 'Welcome to the Jungle' was.'" (Moby, Icon Magazine, 10/97)

One of the demos Moby might've been presented with was the work-in-progress track, Oh My God. Mentioning Matt suggests the song existed in some form in February/March '97.

"Musically the song was primarily written by Paul Huge [in early 1997], with Dizzy Reed writing the musical hook of the chorus. Former member Duff McKagan as well as former employee Matt Sorum failed to see its potential and showed no interest in exploring, let alone recording the piece." (Axl, Press Release, 09/22/99)

 

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Former Employee

The inclusion of Robin proved out to be Matt's last significant contribution for the band.

"I told Axl to see him and he said 'That's our guitar player,'" says Sorum. "I said, 'Bring in Robin to play alongside Slash,' but Axl said, 'I want him to play lead.'" (Spin, 07/99)

"Matt Sorum introduced Rose to former Nine Inch Nails guitarist Robin Finck, advising that he would make a great foil for Slash - who could then be restored to the line-up." (Q Magazine, 05/01)

"The lead guitar spot remains open and Slash's return is not out of the question. However, according to our source, the guitarist and Rose haven't spoken at all this year." (Addicted to Noise, 03/19/97)

"Axl had come to simply see the circus (laughs) and he and I had never met and he didn't know I was there. One of the guys Axl was with in the grandstands pointed and said (in hushed excited voice), 'Axl, you see that guitar player down there? That's Robin from Nine Inch Nails.' ... Axl was telling me this after the fact. And he just kind of scratched his head and was sitting there thinking, 'What is he doing here?'" (Robin, Ultimate Guitar, 01/17/14)

"I got a call from Axl Rose [while in Cirque du Soleil], who I never met at the time. He invited me to the studio as he was writing and recording songs. It was an invitation for a casual listen. Eventually, after about eight weeks, we started playing together." (Robin Finck, 2000)

Axl called Robin no later than mid-January, as he was already playing with the band when Moby came aboard. From 01/29/97 onwards, Cirque du Soleil's Quidam was based in Orange County, between their two stays in Santa Monica, enabling Robin to divide his time between GNR and the circus.

"At that time Axl was no longer playing with Slash but the rest of the original guys were still together. ... He invited me to play with he and the rest of the Guns N' Roses guys at the studio space they were kind of housed in. It was a welcomed opportunity just to play that one day. ... We played Guns songs and some cover songs." (Robin, Ultimate Guitar, 01/17/14)

"I played with Robin a few times and he's a great guy." (Duff, Hard Force, 07/99)

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?pid=54758#p54758

 

Sorum probably gets fired in late March/early April which fits in with the known timeline of events. Around that time it seems possible that Matt had jammed with Finck at a few rehearsals [early-mid March]. The band's lineup at this point: Duff, Sorum, Finck, Huge w/ Moby in talks to produce.

Given Axl was even auditioning drummers as early as January '97, months before Sorum's offical departure. - it would appear the decision had probably been made unofficially in early January of '97 to fire Matt. As per the GnR insider source [see post #1], Matt probably gets his official dismissal letter in late April/early May '97. 

Quote

"I came home, and I said 'I've just been fired'. I remember what time of the year it was... I think it was summer time. Might have been April... March or April. I think so, 1997."

(Matt, Lost Rose, 11/21/01)

Quote

 

April 18th, 1997 [MTV]

While the recently departed Slash hasn't taken Rose to task legally or in the media -- he's kept the door open for a possible reconciliation -- the two are not currently speaking. Slash left the band late last year by mutual agreement over musical direction and personnel disagreements. The former saw Slash partial to the rawer blues-rock sound and Rose, who is currently talking to techno whiz Moby about production duties, pushing for the elaborate. The personnel problem involved the presence of guitarist Paul Huge, Axl's childhood friend, who was openly disliked by Slash.

Matt Sorum, who was playing in both Guns n' Roses and Slash's sideproject Snakepit, is in the middle. Industry reports, denied by G n' R management, have been surfacing that Sorum was no longer with Guns n' Roses and that Chris Vrenna and his former Nine Inch Nails bandmate Robin Finck are working with G n' R.

Vrenna, though, has told press sources that he's only met with Guns n' Roses and that Finck has been jamming with Rose, bassist Duff McKagan, parttimer keyboardist Dizzy Reed and the aforementioned Huge.

http://www.mtv.com/news/1429820/days-of-guns-n-roses/

 

Quote

"April of '[97], right after Matt Sorum left the band... I got a call from those guys about going down and jamming... Duff was still in it... They had already gotten Robin Finck... [Axl] is super well-listened. He was always a big Nails fan... They wanted the option of experimenting with electronics... My role was supposed to be drumming and programming." (Chris Vrenna, Spin, 07/99)

Quote

 

 Then during that time I checked my machine one day and Axl Rose called and that’s when that whole Guns N' Roses thing happened.

DRE: What did you do with them?

CV: When Axl was rebuilding the band every week I was the first guy that was going to be the new drummer after Matt Sorum left. So I was going to be the programmer, drummer and Moby was going to produce. It was like the first incarnation of new people. Duff was even still there and Buckethead wasn’t.

DRE: Got any shit to talk about that?

CV: [laughs] There’s nothing to talk about. Everyone was really nice but I just didn’t really want to do that. I just got out of ten year group and if I was going to do it I would have had to sign a long term commitment. I said “If you’ve already spent right years trying to make a record and you’re only still doing this. Then it could be another eight years.” It was not long after that when I started jotting down stuff about tweaker.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1044

 

Quote

 

Jan 12, 2010

Rafi: I know you worked with Axl Rose on Guns N’ Roses for a bit, but then declined to be part of the band. What happened there?

Chris Vrenna: Well that was right after I had left NIN and Robin Finck was in the band as well after leaving NIN and Cirque du Soleil. Axl Rose is a much more forward thinking person than people give him credit for, very smart and well read guy. Axl really loved NIN, in one of his music videos he is even wearing the old white NIN “Sin” t-shirt. I was in the band for a few months and Moby was going to produce the album at the time. It was a brutal schedule of working five nights a week from 10am to 6pm, Axl came down there maybe a hand full of times. It was just not what I was looking for at the time, I knew that this process was going to last a few years, and I had just left NIN so I was really anxious to get back out there and work with other people. But it was really cool, getting to hang out with all of them. We ended up playing the whole ‘Appetite for Destruction’ album from top to bottom, which really made me happy to get that opportunity.

http://vampirefreaks.com/content/comment.php?entry=447&t=Interview%20with%20Chris%20Vrenna%20%28NIN%20/%20Marilyn%20Manson%29

 

Quote

 

October 26, 1997

Dave Abbruzzese (ex Pearl Jam, current Green Romance Orchestra drummer) confirmed that he got together with Axl at some point. He won't be working with GN'R, but he says that it'll be great when they're done.

When asked who was in GN'R, he replied "G & R are made up of a bunch of great guys! You'll know who when "they" tell YOU!".

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=32

 

Quote

 

Next to try out the drum stool was former Pearl Jam member Dave Abbruzzese.

"Dave Abbruzzese (ex-Pearl Jam) has been rehearsing with GN'R in Los Angeles." (MTV Brazil, 05/01/97)

"Abbruzzese reportedly flew to Los Angeles from Seattle last week to work on the project." (All-Star Online, 04/29/97)

"Matt confirmed that both Chris Vrenna (ex-Nine Inch Nails) and Dave Abbruzzese (ex-Pearl Jam) has been/is working with GN'R (according to Matt, Dave is now in the studio with the band). He also confirmed that Moby was working with them." (Allstar, 05/13/97)

 

Quote

 

Del James: Who's your favorite drummer you've worked with?

Axl: The rehearsals with [Dave] Abruzzesse and Pod [Vrenna] as a duo were really cool; it was a shame then that it didn't work out but seemed for the best once we found Josh. In regard to old Guns, I don't listen much and for different reasons -- more because of the drums than anything else.

(Axl, Spinner, 02/27/09)

 

Quote

July 4th, 1997

According to MTV, both Geffen and Big FD has denied the reports that Matt Sorum has been fired.

GN'R are supposed to be in the studio with Mike Clink and Moby.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=22

 

Quote

 

02/20/1998

As for bassist Duff McKagan, Goldstein reports that the G n' R bass slot will be held open until McKagan -- who's recently become a father -- decides on his future plans. "The jury is still out on [drummer] Matt Sorum," Goldstein admits, adding that Axl has tried out different drummers. . . .

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=44

 

 

Between May '97 - Feb '98, they left the door open through official channels for Matt. Was it to see if Matt would apologize to Axl and grovel enough to get the job back? Doubtful. Given the January drummer auditions, I suspect Matt was getting fired one way or another. I doubt he had a place in the band or with Axl in '97 - they may have toyed with the idea of keeping him "in play" as a backup while the Vrenna/Abruzzese sessions went nowhere [April - June '97] and the band had no official drummer.

After Duff's resignation, it seems like Matt's attempts to reach out to Axl were ignored. Matt says in 2001 he had made 4 calls to Axl. [Major speculation here] : Any guesses that the 4 calls may have been spaced out between Christmas '97 - '00? Maybe that Christmas '97 call from Matt made Axl consider the idea of reinstating him [Goldstein's Feb '98 quote about Matt still being an option] but within a few months, Freese is in and signed by mid-late March '98. 

Quote

03/06/1998

L.A. session drummers are fervently hoping there's truth to the rumor that Josh Freese has accepted or is about to accept an offer from Guns N' Roses.

Freese is one of the most desirable skin beaters on the market and certainly one of the busiest. He's best known as the drummer for The Vandals and former Replacement leader Paul Westerberg, but his credits also include Devo (he played with them on this past year's Lollapalooza tour), Juliana Hatfield, Tracey Bonham, the Daredevils and Thermadore among many, many others.

Sources close to Freese confirm that he's been joining Axl Rose in the studio late at night while continuing to do his regular sessions in the daytime. When asked if Freese was the new G n' R drummer, a spokesperson for Geffen, quoting the band's management, told MTV News, "There's nothing we can confirm at this time, hopefully soon, but not now."

G n' R's manager, Doug Goldstein, recently told "Rolling Stone's" Matt Hendrickson that former Nine Inch Nails guitarist Robin Finck has become a fulltime member of the band. He also said that Rose is writing and jamming with keyboardist Dizzy Reed and guitarist and longtime Rose collaborator Paul Huge and that the bass slot was being left open until Duff McKagan makes a final decision on his plans for the future. Goldstein told Hendrickson that they were "three to five months away from actual recording" and not to expect a record until 1999.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=46

 

Quote

On May Day '98, Geffen Records officially acknowledged the departure of Slash and Duff from GNR.

"Since 1992, [GNR and Geffen Records] have executed various amendments to the Recording Agreement, including most notably, two amendments dated as of May 1, 1998.

One of these amendments [...] confirmed Slash's and Duff's departure from the band and their status as "Leaving Members" under the 1992 Recording Agreement, thereby relieving them of charges against their royalty accounts for the enormous recording costs and other expenses being incurred by Axl Rose in connection with the recording of the new Guns N' Roses studio album.

- It looks like for the entirety of 97/early '98, Axl appears to have been holding out for his #1 choice Josh Freese [Prince's drummer confirms in an earlier quote above that he thought Josh Freese was originally supposed to do the gig prior to his January '97 audition.] - More proof that Sorum was finished in the band by late '96/early Jan '97. Axl probably reached out to Freese around that time to take the drumming gig.

Freese accepts the position 13 months later and the door officially closes on Sorum. The following month, Freese helps recruit Tommy Stinson into the band and that closes the door on Duff coming back and torpedoes any remote chance of Matt returning.

Quote

 

A year later, a final insult from Axl to Matt:

Live Era 87-93 releases in late '99:

The album has generated a fair deal of controversy. Firstly, drummer Steven Adler and rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin are listed in the credits as Guns N' Roses members, while drummer Matt Sorum and rhythm guitarist Gilby Clarke are simply listed as "additional musicians", despite playing on the majority of the tracks on the album.

http://www.gunsnroses.wikia.com/wiki/Live_Era:_'87–'93

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by RONIN

[zombux]

I miss the connection of Sorum with Robin Finck http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?pid=54758#p54758

[scooby845]

Great topic. A lot more interesting than the Izzy one. 

 

[RONIN]

On a sidenote, can anyone imagine the drama @ the '96 Halloween party in Axl's house the day after Slash quits? 

One of the great GnR untold stories is if the band members showed up to that party (Slash was there for the one in '95). Imagine the unbelievably awkward encounter that would have gone down between Duff, Matt, and Paul Huge. "So uh....did you guys hear about what happened yesterday with Salsh?" 

----

On 10/30/96, Axl sent a fax to MTV, announcing that there will be a new GNR studio album, yet Slash is no longer in the band.

"Duff accepted my decision without any question, and Matt wasn't surprised either." (Slash, autobiography)

"It barely registered with me - I had long since come to grips with the fact that [Slash] was done. And anyway, it wasn’t as if Guns was active. He left behind an empty studio being paid for by an entity that itself barely existed." (Duff, Autobiography)

And as for the day after...

"Axl throws a costume party every Halloween for friends and their families. Enormous pumpkins ring the swimming pool, and spider webs hang in the trees. Specially built mazes and forts rattle with squealing children. Almost as excited as a child, Axl himself has been known to dash around and toy with every attraction. One past guest gets the impression that Axl is trying to re-create his own childhood, albeit one better than his actually was. The Halloween scene in the past few years hasn't been what it once was. 'His parties have been getting smaller and smaller,' recalls one recent guest. 'The ever-shrinking universe.'" (Rolling Stone, 05/11/00)

----

Edited March 11, 2018 by RONIN

[RONIN]

Quote

 

L.A. Weekly reporter Art Tavana was recently interviewed on Appetite for Distortion and discussed Guns N’ Roses’ rumored 2016 offer to Matt Sorum. Alternative Nation transcribed the quotes.

“This is not a secret, Matt Sorum was offered the similar kind of Steven Adler thing, where hey, you can play a couple shows.”

He added, “He was offered spots, and he refused because he wasn’t getting paid what he thought he should have gotten paid is what I’m told.”

Matt Sorum tweeted in April that he ‘wasn’t asked’ to take part in the Guns N’ Roses reunion. “No sir, they didn’t ask me.”

Tavana also discussed Steven Adler.

“[Steven] Adler’s back is too injured to be a full time member of the band. I don’t think would have ever been a full time member of the band, even if he was fully healthy, because Frank [Ferrer] is an Axl guy, the same way Richard Fortus is, so that will never change. I don’t personally think [Adler] will be involved in songwriting, I don’t think he ever was. I love Adler, I think he’s one of the best parts of [Appetite for Destruction].”

Matt Sorum was interviewed by WRIF in June, and before the pre-recorded interview played, the host mentioned that he was asked to not ask about Guns N’ Roses during the interview. Despite this, Sorum hinted and alluded to his exclusion from Guns N’ Roses’ ‘Not In This Lifetime’ tour a few times during the interview. Alternative Nation transcribed some quotes from the 25 minute interview.

Sorum discussed his place in bands he’s been in, “I’ve always been a little bit more of an outspoken guy in a band, and maybe that’s why I move around so much (laughs).”

He later said, “Obviously there’s bands of mine that I’ve been playing with over the years that are out on the road doing different things. People go, ‘Hey Matt, Don’t you wish you were doing that?’ I go, ‘No, I like what the next thing brings.'”

Sorum later discussed having faith in rock and roll, and his outlook on life, specifically when it came to being left out of things.

“Don’t ever get like oh hey, I got left out of that, or I got left out of this. The idea is gratitude. I heard Hillary Clinton talk about this the other day. They were asking her about her faith, and she said she studies gratitude every day. I thought if we have a President who is pushing a sermon of gratitude, that sounds pretty good to me. Because we’re always kind of nay saying on everything in life, but we seem to forget what we have.

I always reflect on what I’ve been given. You don’t get it for free, you’ve got to go out and work for it, and you have to have a certain talent, and I don’t take my talent for granted. So when I go into a situation, I come in there ready, professional, with the best attitude possible. I’ve been blessed, I go, I’m grateful. That’s not always been me, I’ve got to be honest, but as you get a little older in life you go oh wow, life’s pretty good.”

 

https://www.alternativenation.net/guns-n-roses-surprising-offer-to-matt-sorum-reportedly-revealed/

Edited March 11, 2018 by RONIN

[RONIN]

Quote

 

Former Guns N’ Roses drummer Matt Sorum has revealed on Twitter that he ‘wasn’t asked’ to take part in GNR’s reunion tour. He later deleted the tweet. He was later asked if he was watching Guns N’ Roses’ Las Vegas concerts, he said he preferred to watch Downton Abbey. “Watching final season of Downton Abbey.” Sorum also wished his former GNR bandmate Izzy Stradlin happy birthday on Saturday. Stradlin is also not involved in Guns N’ Roses’ reunion.

https://www.alternativenation.net/ex-guns-n-roses-member-wasnt-asked-reunion/

 

 

Quote

 

MSL is reporting on GNRTruth that Slash and Duff McKagan lobbied to get former drummer Matt Sorum back in Guns N’ Roses for the band’s 2016 Not In This Lifetime Tour.

“I’m sure he’s bummed that Slash & Duff returned without him, especially since it neuters Kings of Chaos, but at least he’s got himself a prominent side gig and I’m sure he’ll have a blast playing with Alice, Joe & Depp.

Slash & Duff did try hard to get him back into GNR, but I don’t think it would have been reasonable to expect Slash & Duff to make it a deal breaker.

And Axl’s loyalty to those that are loyal to him is very admirable IMO.”

Matt Sorum, who is set to tour this summer with Hollywood Vampires (Alice Cooper, Johnny Depp, and Joe Perry), said he is happy with his current band and is not sulking over his Guns N’ Roses reunion snub.

“I’m in the right band right now if you get my drift. I’m happy to be playing with my heroes,” Sorum told Forbes.

https://www.alternativenation.net/slash-duff-mckagan-lobbied-for-axl-rose-to-bring-back-ex-guns-n-roses-member/

 

 

Quote

 

Alternative Nation posted a story last week from GNRTruth‘s MSL about Slash and Duff McKagan having lobbied for Matt Sorum to take part in the Guns N’ Roses reunion, and MSL has revealed that while Steven Adler has been considered for cameos by Axl Rose, Matt Sorum was ‘flatly rejected completely.’ MSL posted:

“That didn’t stop [Steven] Adler from being considered for cameos though. Whereas Matt was flatly rejected completely. So I do think there may be some hurt feelings.”

He later shared analysis on why Sorum was rejected, “Adler brings more to the table in the sense that there are more people who would get excited by the idea of Steven getting to play a few songs than seeing Matt. Also, while Steven has run his mouth plenty of times, people feel bad for him / know he’s like a little kid.”

Duff McKagan’s wife Susan Holmes-McKagan liked Alternative Nation’s story from last week on Slash and Duff lobbying for Sorum’s Guns N’ Roses return on Twitter.

https://www.alternativenation.net/ex-guns-n-roses-member-was-rejected-for-reunion/

 

 

Quote

 

matt sorum‏Verified account

More

Happy Birthday @axlrose

11:29 AM - 6 Feb 2018

 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by RONIN

[DieselDaisy]

Quote

burgers at the Trump Tower that cost $35.

See. Told you Guns were a ''Trumpy'' band. 

[Tadsy]

Excellent read Ronin and thanks for putting in the hard work so slackers like me have something interesting to read on here mate! Much appreciated! 

A side question. What is MSLs link to GNR? Who are his contacts? I signed up a long time ago to that site but after a day of reading his side kicks self righteous BS over and over again I stopped visiting that site. 

 

[DieselDaisy]

Tried to rip-off Guns with a memory stick of emails and Chinese stuff, then Guns got to him with whatever it is they do to people which turns them into sycophants, some Stepfordy Wives brain operation thing is my guess - probably the same procedure Slash and Duff endured. 

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[RussTCB]

Jesus Christ @RONIN, I love these topics. So well researched and informative. Just wanted to say thank you very much for all the work you put into things like this!

[bucketfoot]

"Fuck you, Yoko!" Brilliant.

[bucketfoot]

"Well, are you gonna fucking quit?"

"No, I don't fucking quit".

"Well, then you're fucking fired".

 

[rocknroll41]

Matt kinda rubs me the wrong way based on these quotes. Then again, so does Axl.

[Sydney Fan]

Matt always seems to cocky and arrogant with an ego the size of the grand canyon,  but during his time in guns he always had the musical chops and skills to back it up.

[RONIN]

16 hours ago, tremolo said:

Great compilation @RONIN! Thanks for the time and effort.

What happened during the HOF between Matt and Steven? I disn’t care for that whole event, so I never bothered to watch it

During their acceptance speeches, Sorum recounts how he was hired by the band. He says he took a call from Slash who said they needed a new drummer because they had to kick out their old drummer for taking too many drugs. He then says something like, "How can you get kicked out for doing too many drugs in Guns n' Roses"? It was a cringeworthy moment but Steven was a good sport about it. 

It was an odd induction ceremony starting with Green Day who gave a pretty underwhelming intro for the band. During the speech, Slash and Duff look really pissed like they don't want to be there. Axl gets loudly booed by the audience and Green Day's frontman takes a playful shot at the redhead. He also defends him when the booing gets louder than expected. The most awkard (and hilarious) part of the ceremony happens when the band is coming to the stage and Slash attempts to shake hands with Billie Joe unsuccessfully - finally he just gives up. 

 

[DieselDaisy]

Little did those other chaps, Adler and Sorum, know in 2012 that Slash and Duff would ''sell them down the river'' four years' later? 

[action]

without paul, there is no guns n roses

[zombux]

1 hour ago, action said:

without paul, there is no guns n roses

there's much more to that. remember when Axl introduced Paul Huge as "the original guitar player" at the HOB 2001 show? 

well, he wasn't kidding http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=215

(and this might actually be a huge challenge for @RONIN, because this obscure era before GNR was born or even before Axl and co. moved to LA is a huge and poorly documented mess  )

Edited March 12, 2018 by zombux

[Teroz]

Wow 35$ burger at Trump tower is a bargain, even then. Good for them, I love Trump.

[bucketfoot]

Props to Sorum for having the balls to stand up to Axl and for defending Slash (putting Huge in his place) although Axl always held the trump *ahem* card in being able to fire him. Matt should really be there now in Steven's absence.

[Original]

That was an awesome read...thanks.  Thoughts:

*Sorum is great.  Love how candid he is

*It all just pisses me off how it fell apart

*Never understood why Green Day (sucky band) did the HOF deal

*Maybe I missed it but didn't Axl/Sorum have some random run in where they ended up sharing a limo 8-10 years ago <or longer>?  And allegedly got along just fine.  Axl is still holding grudge against Matt.  Grow up.

*The whole Sedona/Yoda deal and Axl being taken advantage of- sad and how does Axl fucking Rose let that happen?  Suppose because he had no true friends.  And isn't TB basically Yoda 2.0?  They've been milking his financial teet for 20 years +. 

*I still wish they had Matt or Steven on this tour vs Frank, but I guess we can't be to greedy- we got the big 3.

[bucketfoot]

1 minute ago, Original said:

we got the big 3.

We didn't, the big three would be Axl, Slash, Izzy.

[Original]

58 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

We didn't, the big three would be Axl, Slash, Izzy.

Well- true.  We got #'s 1, 2 and 4.  *but without Duff it's unlikely any of this woulda happened

[DieselDaisy]

We got the big 2 1/2.