Are GNR the new Rolling stones?

[DieselDaisy]

Not even Guns N' Roses themselves would take their own tracks over the Stones - especially not Slash and Izzy. Literally the whole Guns style is so completely indebted to The Stones that it is a ridiculous comparison. Appetite was basically great because it was ''imitation (golden age) Stones'' in a sea of over produced 1980s shit.

[Fashionista]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Not even Guns N' Roses themselves would take their own tracks over the Stones - especially not Slash and Izzy. Literally the whole Guns style is so completely indebted to The Stones that it is a ridiculous comparison. Appetite was basically great because it was ''imitation (golden age) Stones'' in a sea of over produced 1980s shit.

 

I don't think AFD sounds much like the Stones except in Izzy's rhythm playing. AFD to me is a mix of 70s Aerosmith, Rose Tattoo, 70s-early 80s punk, Lynyrd Skynrd (SCOM, PC) and funk bands like Cameo, with obvious influence from their glam contemporaries.

The Stones influence IMO is much more evident on Lies and the UYI records. UTLH and You Ain't the First are basically 70s Stones tracks, Bad Obsession is basically a mid tempo Bitch or Brown Sugar, Bad Apples is Axl aping Exile era Mick ("when the shit hit the fan/it was all could stand" is like an Exile lyric). So Fine is very Keith.

I really don't hear the Stones on AFD except maybe some Street Fightin' Man on Out Ta Get Me.

[Fashionista]

On July 27, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Len Cnut said:

Keiths a wonderful guitar player but lets be honest, he talks a gargantuan amount of bollocks.  I've come to the conclusion that he's on a wind up most of the time and in his sincere moments he's a sort of an affable sort of guy.  Bookish and studious.  A closet stamp collector.

Ever listened to, or watched, a pre 1967 interview with Keith? He is very shy, reserved, thoughtful and almost nervous. Anita Pallenberg shaped Keith into Keef.

Watch here. He's even more of a nerd than Bill Wyman

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i-tnMHbaLws

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Fashionista

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Fashionista said:

 

I don't think AFD sounds much like the Stones except in Izzy's rhythm playing. AFD to me is a mix of 70s Aerosmith, Rose Tattoo, 70s-early 80s punk, Lynyrd Skynrd (SCOM, PC) and funk bands like Cameo, with obvious influence from their glam contemporaries.

The Stones influence IMO is much more evident on Lies and the UYI records. UTLH and You Ain't the First are basically 70s Stones tracks, Bad Obsession is basically a mid tempo Bitch or Brown Sugar, Bad Apples is Axl aping Exile era Mick ("when the shit hit the fan/it was all could stand" is like an Exile lyric). So Fine is very Keith.

I really don't hear the Stones on AFD except maybe some Street Fightin' Man on Out Ta Get Me.

And who is the main influence on those bands? Aerosmith were basically a Poundland Stones, albeit a bit funkier, delivered up for America because America didn't have a band like the Stones. Skynard? Well Keith (and Gram Parsons) were doing the country rock thing earlier. 

That dual guitar rhythm of Slash and Izzy (delivered up over groove centric drums) which is basically the sound of Appetite. That is undeniably ''Stonesy''.

Have you ever heard Izzy talk about Exile? There is an interview I believe from the 1990s. He basically considers that album his Bible.

[Blackstar]

10 minutes ago, Fashionista said:

 

I don't think AFD sounds much like the Stones except in Izzy's rhythm playing. AFD to me is a mix of 70s Aerosmith, Rose Tattoo, 70s-early 80s punk, Lynyrd Skynrd (SCOM, PC) and funk bands like Cameo, with obvious influence from their glam contemporaries.

The Stones influence IMO is much more evident on Lies and the UYI records. UTLH and You Ain't the First are basically 70s Stones tracks, Bad Obsession is basically a mid tempo Bitch or Brown Sugar, Bad Apples is Axl aping Exile era Mick ("when the shit hit the fan/it was all could stand" is like an Exile lyric). So Fine is very Keith.

I really don't hear the Stones on AFD except maybe some Street Fightin' Man on Out Ta Get Me.

Yeah, AFD didn't draw from the Stones as directly as these Lies and UYI tracks did (as well as Izzy's solo stuff and bands like the Black Crowes did). So Fine drew directly more from Jonnny Thunders.

[Fashionista]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

And who is the main influence on those bands? Aerosmith were basically a Poundland Stones, albeit a bit funkier, delivered up for America because America didn't have a band like the Stones. Skynard? Well Keith (and Gram Parsons) were doing the country rock thing earlier. 

That dual guitar rhythm of Slash and Izzy (delivered up over groove centric drums) which is basically the sound of Appetite. That is undeniably ''Stonesy''.

Have you ever heard Izzy talk about Exile? There is an interview I believe from the 1990s. He basically considers that album his Bible.

Aerosmith started off as a poor man's Stones but once you get to Get Your Wings or Toys in the Attic they become their own thing, more groovy than the Stones really ever were in my opinion, more of a Yardbirds and Zeppelin type thing, like I could never imagine the Stones doing Train Kept A Rollin or Walk This Way for example. That hard rock mixed with groove is the backbone of AFD. 

Yeah the Stones were doing pure country homages even as early as The Last Time but Skynyrd is swamp rock man, it's own thing I've never heard commonalities really between the two. I mean even something as down home as Sweet Virginia isn't as swampy or as authentically southern as say Tuesday's Gone. 

I know Izzy is basically like, he wants to be Keith, and the choppy rhythm on AFD is very Stones but I feel like Slash's heavier sound and the other more punk influences on the band overshadow Izzy's more laid back bare style. That's why AFD works in that it is a very organic melting pot of very different music. Izzy's Stones influence is but once piece of that on that record .

[Len Cnut]

7 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, AFD didn't draw from the Stones as directly as these Lies and UYI tracks did (as well as Izzy's solo stuff and bands like the Black Crowes did). So Fine drew directly more from Jonnny Thunders.

Johnny Thunders, as much as hes my hero, was a Keith Richards copy.  And unashamedly so.  In fact The NY Dolls were like a dirtier New York Stones, Johnny was such a Keef fan when he was a kid he used to hang around Maxs hoping to catch a glimpse of Keith...and did once, even kept his cigarette butts.

[Len Cnut]

2 minutes ago, Fashionista said:

Aerosmith started off as a poor man's Stones but once you get to Get Your Wings or Toys in the Attic they become their own thing, more groovy than the Stones really ever were in my opinion, more of a Yardbirds and Zeppelin type thing, like I could never imagine the Stones doing Train Kept A Rollin or Walk This Way for example. That hard rock mixed with groove is the backbone of AFD. 

Yeah the Stones were doing pure country homages even as early as The Last Time but Skynyrd is swamp rock man, it's own thing I've never heard commonalities really between the two. I mean even something as down home as Sweet Virginia isn't as swampy or as authentically southern as say Tuesday's Gone. 

I know Izzy is basically like, he wants to be Keith, and the choppy rhythm on AFD is very Stones but I feel like Slash's heavier sound and the other more punk influences on the band overshadow Izzy's more laid back bare style. That's why AFD works in that it is a very organic melting pot of very different music. Izzy's Stones influence is but once piece of that on that record .

To me, Izzy made Guns n Roses, he gave them a bit of colour, he was that key ingridient that retrieved them from just...the density of Slashes playing and Axls balladeering.  Not that there’s anything wrong with the aforementioned but you kinda need Izzy to give it that groove, that coolness.

[Blackstar]

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Johnny Thunders, as much as hes my hero, was a Keith Richards copy.  And unashamedly so.  In fact The NY Dolls were like a dirtier New York Stones, Johnny was such a Keef fan when he was a kid he used to hang around Maxs hoping to catch a glimpse of Keith...and did once, even kept his cigarette butts.

Yeah, no doubt about that. But what I'm saying is that Duff had more Johnny Thunders in his mind when he wrote it than Keith Richards.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Blackstar

[Fashionista]

Johnny Thunders was Keith without the filter or without actually consciously trying to be so (whereas Keef is a persona). Johnny Thunders to me is everything Keith pretended to be. And I feel both guys' influences in So Fine. Johnny's pain and Keith's finesse.

[Sosso]

11 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

To me, Izzy made Guns n Roses, he gave them a bit of colour, he was that key ingridient that retrieved them from just...the density of Slashes playing and Axls balladeering.  Not that there’s anything wrong with the aforementioned but you kinda need Izzy to give it that groove, that coolness.

Yeah, but he had not the power of Malcolm Young or Keith Richards for example. He wanted to keep things small and lost the battle against Axl and Slash nearly without fighting. 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Sosso

[Blackstar]

AFD was more a melting pot and less Stones derivative than Aerosmith, imo.

As for Lynyrd Skynyrd, although the Stones did country rock before them, I don't think they took it from them. There was an "all American" line for that country-blues/swamp rock thing. CCR (very underappreciated band outside the US) was the main influence on what Skynyrd and other "southern rock" bands did.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Blackstar

[DieselDaisy]

I tell you two Stones rips off of my head. Think About You, the acoustic guitar doubling? Well that was lifted from Brown Sugar. If you listen to Brown Sugar there is an acoustic guitar doubling everything. It adds warmth.

Mr Brownstone's lyrics. Tell me somebody that they owe anything less than a huge debt to Sister Morphine?

[Len Cnut]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

I tell you two Stones rips off of my head. Think About You, the acoustic guitar doubling? Well that was lifted from Brown Sugar. If you listen to Brown Sugar there is an acoustic guitar doubling everything. It adds warmth.

Mr Brownstone's lyrics. Tell me somebody that they owe anything less than a huge debt to Sister Morphine?

In GnRs defence here, the whole talking about personification of a drug or a vice thing predates Sister Morphine too.

[Fashionista]

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I tell you two Stones rips off of my head. Think About You, the acoustic guitar doubling? Well that was lifted from Brown Sugar. If you listen to Brown Sugar there is an acoustic guitar doubling everything. It adds warmth.

Mr Brownstone's lyrics. Tell me somebody that they owe anything less than a huge debt to Sister Morphine?

The whole acoustic shadowing electric thing goes back to the 50s, rockabilly and not something that originated with the Stones. And Mr. Brownstone is similar but only in the sense that both are drug songs 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

In GnRs defence here, the whole talking about personification of a drug or a vice thing predates Sister Morphine too.

Just to clarify most of the stones style is borrowed itself from American musicology but I'm not sure how much Guns were listening to the originals. Maybe this is why they never did a direct blues thing? Maybe Axl a bit, or Slash because his father was an English hippy who had an eclectic music collection, everything from Beethoven to Zeppelin. I think Izzy explored a lot of this ex post facto, after he'd quit in 1992; I remember him discussing reaching back to Chuck Berry, rather that The Stones does Chuck which was what he was used to. 

[DieselDaisy]

8 minutes ago, Fashionista said:

The whole acoustic shadowing electric thing goes back to the 50s, rockabilly and not something that originated with the Stones. And Mr. Brownstone is similar but only in the sense that both are drug songs 

Well see my reply above. From whom were Guns - Izzy in this circumstance - assimilating these influences? Guns didn't seem to have the musicological intelligence of somebody like Mick, Keith or Brian, who were discovering ancient American records from the 1930s. 

But we know one thing,

Quote

"Exile on Main Street is a staple of my diet. I've always had a copy hiding somewhere, wherever I would go." 

- Izzy.

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[Fashionista]

Well this why GNR were and are inferior to the Stones: While the Stones' personas may have been fake (except for Charlie, Brian and Bill), their music had a great deal of real substance, texture and subtlety. GN'R could never write something as powerfully dark as Midnight Rambler, as exotic as Paint It Black, as simplistic and rebellious as Street Fighting Man or as poppy as My Obsession. GNR were a dumbed down Americanized version of the 70s Stones and a more lewd version of Aerosmith. One is like steak, the other is a hamburger.

The only American group to really capture what the Stones were without dumbing it down was The Doors.

[Blackstar]

GnR were listening to some original blues stuff.

Axl, 1987:

Quote

"Some people might say that Guns N' Roses really has to get into the roots because they don't know what they're doing. Well, we're trying. We listen to Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Robert Johnson and a lot of other kinds of music we try to incorporate into what we do."

Quote

You know, just pick up a book of rock history and, you know, and anything back to the blues and anything and then get into top 40 and pick a bunch of stuff out of that, and all of it we've, you know, listened to and played.

[Axl's Agony Aunt]

Sympathy was one of Guns' first covers, seeming to showing who they revered and hoped to emulate; although could also have been the song's social criticism lyrics and theme; same for other songs. Wings: Live and Let Die other U.K.

Mama Kin for Aerosmith. Dylan's Knocking another American.

Then for Aussie rock Rose Tattoo's Nice Boys and AC/DC's Rosie. 

Lots of punk etc on Spaghetti too.

 

[wasted]

Guns are way more like Aero DC than Stones on AFD, with a lot of punk imfluence. For Those About to Rock meets Rocks meets Thrash?

Edited July 29, 2018 by wasted

[Fashionista]

6 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Just to clarify most of the stones style is borrowed itself from American musicology but I'm not sure how much Guns were listening to the originals. Maybe this is why they never did a direct blues thing? Maybe Axl a bit, or Slash because his father was an English hippy who had an eclectic music collection, everything from Beethoven to Zeppelin. I think Izzy explored a lot of this ex post facto, after he'd quit in 1992; I remember him discussing reaching back to Chuck Berry, rather that The Stones does Chuck which was what he was used to. 

Bring it Back Home is pretty bluesy.

[Axl's Agony Aunt]

On ‎28‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 12:35 AM, Kasanova King said:

Forbes seems to think so:

"Fast-forward 10 years, and the band’s public perception has greatly improved. Now heralded as the rightful successors to classic rock legends such as Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones, Guns N’ Roses have secured their legacy as hard rock elites and won back fans who felt scorned by their old behavior."

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrolli/2018/07/27/4-reasons-a-new-guns-n-roses-album-would-be-a-huge-success/#18e7b2636676

I agree Wasted, Appetite was a pretty fast punky album, reminiscent of other previous 70s/80s rock albums, with Crue a local example, with one ballad among 10-12 rockers, with SCOM the ballad.

I disagree with Forbes calling the Stones classic rock. I think they were more pop  rock, or blues rock, a whole of the 60s eclectic band like the Beatles, Faces etc.

I think classic rock is consistently heavy, starting with Cream, Hendrix, Led Zep, Purple, Sabbath in the late 60s and those who followed in the 70s.

[IncitingChaos]

I love that the Guns N Roses brand is respected so much that it can generate the fan response it does. 

I hate the fact that the brand is still strong because they did nothing for 25 years..seems like they got rewarded for nothing. 

But I would tell anyone to listen to their full catalogue and see if they hear the talent and creative power they produced in only 5-6 year period