Are Slash & Duff = To Frank, Fortus & Dizzy?

[RussTCB]

This subject came up in one of the many Slash Interview threads and I thought it'd be interesting to start a topic on it:

 

How do view Slash & Duff with respect to GNR these days? 

I bring this up because I've been saying that Slash making comments about a new GNR album possibly coming sooner than later doesn't really give me much promise. 

To me, it's the same as Dizzy and/or Richard saying the same thing since 2002.

I just don't think Slash & Duff have any more say in it than Richard, Frank or anyone else does. I think it still all comes down to whether or not Axl will release new music. That, in my mind, puts Slash & Duff on equal footing with Richard, Dizzy, Frank and everyone else who's ever been in the band. 

Thoughts? 

[Nice Boy]

I don't think Slash saying soon is exactly comparable to Dizzy saying it, since Slash will have far more involvement in the writing, production and completion of it that Dizzy has done or will do.. Slash clearly has a solid work ethic that is more likely to drive the creative process

 

 

Not sure if he's any good on the bongos though

[Jw224]

I don't think Slash saying it in of itself means much. I do however think Slash is more likely to be able to get Axl to make new music than the rest did. 

[Free Bird]

Slash and Duff can't force Axl to go into the studio. Like they couldn't back in the day. That has nothing to do with being a just a hired hand. 

Both of them are definitely way above Frank, Dizzy and Richard. If they were equal, they would get the same amount of money for this tour and I don't think anybody believes that that's the case?

Besides, you just have to have a look at the tour promotion. That says everything

[jacdaniel]

Axl needs Slash badly or its back to bowling alleys. 

If Slash leaves now, he can never put yet another band called Guns together. 

I'd say Slash and Duff are WAY ahead of Mel, Dizzy, Fortus and Frank. 

 

I don't honestly know what people are expecting from Slash? He is doing PR for his solo album. He's not announcing a Guns album. He has already stated that they all want to do it, they've talked about, he has a bunch of ideas especially for Guns... 

I mean, he not going to announce a new album by himself.

[guitarpatch]

It’s gotta be worth everyone’s time, energy, and you know what else to do such a venture. Just because they’d like to do it, doesn’t mean the cards are aligned for it to happen

I would think the band would want to discuss a renegotiated advance/deal from the label whether it includes previously written material or not. It was rumored to be a sticking point beforehand, so this situation pushes things over the top and in GNr’s favor as well as more willingness from UMG to play ball. They may even choose to rework something the other way so that they can get out of their deal sooner. That would open up the possibilities quicker of having a live archive project that everyone here seems to be salivating over. 

Record deals aside, if it means they can also take those songs to help facilitate another tour that takes in a similar or better pay day, that would be even better

Question is the next US tour when they would need that boost? Could they go out again after this time off without anything new? I think they could or try. Then you save an album for the tour afterwards, or if that falls through pull the AFD 5 Card that’s still in the back pocket 

Personally, I’d like to see them use the album as leverage to end their deal sooner with UMG. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by guitarpatch

[soon]

Slash's quote that they would work Axls tracks makes a lot of sense in this day and age when artists and labels struggle to make a profit off of studio albums. The recording is mostly complete, so theres no new cost. The three of them could finish it up for next to nothing at Slashs little studio. So maybe thats a tiny point in favour of believing Slash?

But I think that even if Duff and Slash have an 'equal say' to Axl that it really comes down to Axl at the end of the day, regardless.

Edited August 21, 2018 by soon

[newusedillusion]

 

No, not really. All Slash has done is confirm there is material there, which I never really doubted at all. Whether it's good or not or if Axl is confident enough in it to release, that's another question.

Music is there, Slash has heard it and has some ideas for it. That's it. What would you like him to do, lie about it? Give a "no comment" which people will just take as confirmation?

[Gibson87]

I think Slash and Duff have more say than the others. Fortus, Frank, and Dizzy have all been members for longer, but Slash and Duff were there at the beginning. They were part of the reason that this band got as big as it did. If they leave again, Axl's going right back to playing Vegas residencies. Having Slash and Duff back and talking about possible new material means more to me than Dizzy or Fortus talking about it. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Gibson_Guy87

[UsedYourIllusion]

Axls ability to actually record in the studio has probbaly been greatly diminished. Could you imagine them trying to record several albums in 2012 or 2013? It's a good thing Axl recorded so much for CD at the times his voice was on point. Imagine trying in 2002? I mean his voice is similar to CD but doesn't have that power from the 3 or 4 years before when he rerecorded AFD and the Live Era overdubs. Unless they decide to use old demos and tapes, it's going to take a great deal of time to reach something releaseable-something they could also perform live.. can't be writing Locomotive or Coma esque songs anymore.

 

I'm sure Duff and Slash can present Axl with material or coax him into helping him write, but I think Axl understands his vocal limitations now and is hesitant to release something new unless, as his perfectionist personality has shown, it is perfect in his eyes.

[El Guapo]

The difference is - at this point Slash and Duff are not replacable anymore. Everyone else is. 

Does that make a difference to Axl though? I doubt it.

[GNRfanMILO]

5 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

The difference is - at this point Slash and Duff are not replacable anymore. Everyone else is. 

Does that make a difference to Axl though? I doubt it.

Yeah, I think that's the only thing that's different than with nuGNR. There's no going back, if Slash leaves GNR again then this band is over for good.

So I see Slash as the only one that can get Axl into a studio, forced or not. But I think he doesn't have the balls to do it.

[El Guapo]

He won't force Axl to do anything. He will just leave.

[ironmt]

Slash and Duffs opinion and will to want to release a new Guns N Roses album may mean more to Axl than hearing it come from Richard ,Dizzy and Frank. So In that regard Axl may agree to release an album to appease Slash and Duff and to keep the money train rolling. Axl may figure that If he doesn't ,Slash and Duff may eventually walk away again and If that happens Axl better be prepared to start playing abandoned warehouses, because  Guns N Roses without the other two originals will no longer be tolerated or accepted by most fans.

On the flip side, Slash clearly stated that they will continue to work on material that Axl has already created. Slash and Duff will put there little spin on the songs and Axl will eventually have the final say as to whether or not the material Is acceptable for release. He will have the final say as he always has. Slash and Duffs position In the band is no different than any of the past hired hands that have come and gone.

If a new album is released , it will not sell well. That Is just the way it is today. I guess we can thank the technological advances that we  all crave so much today, but that is a whole separate topic. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by ironmt

[Jw224]

23 minutes ago, UsedYourIllusion said:

Axls ability to actually record in the studio has probbaly been greatly diminished. Could you imagine them trying to record several albums in 2012 or 2013? It's a good thing Axl recorded so much for CD at the times his voice was on point. Imagine trying in 2002? I mean his voice is similar to CD but doesn't have that power from the 3 or 4 years before when he rerecorded AFD and the Live Era overdubs. Unless they decide to use old demos and tapes, it's going to take a great deal of time to reach something releaseable-something they could also perform live.. can't be writing Locomotive or Coma esque songs anymore.

 

I'm sure Duff and Slash can present Axl with material or coax him into helping him write, but I think Axl understands his vocal limitations now and is hesitant to release something new unless, as his perfectionist personality has shown, it is perfect in his eyes.

Studio environment is very different from a live setting. I think Axl could still pull off great vocals in studio. 

[Ratam]

Why❓ Melissa is out it❓

[ironmt]

1 minute ago, Ratam said:

Why❓ Melissa is out it❓

 let's let Melissa have the final say on a new release. 

[ZoSoRose]

Obviously Slash and Duff are infinitely more important to "GNR" than Foetus, Frank, etc, but ultimately they cant make Axl do anything.

[Blackstar]

Let's put it this way: Before the reunion, Slash and Duff had the power to block Axl from releases related to the back catalog, because they retained the partner status. And they still have this status, they are partners for the tour and make the decisions together, they haven't returned as employees. So in no way they are on the same level as Richard and Dizzy as far as their status goes.

But if we're talking about new music exclusively, their status is really irrelevant, because even as equals they can't force each other for something like this. It's not like "let's vote about making new music", 2 of them vote for it so the 3rd will have to follow. So if Axl doesn't want to release music, they can't "make" him do it. It all comes down to if Axl is more motivated now than before because of Slash and Duff.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Blackstar

[DieselDaisy]

It is all in the redhead's court and he doesn't want to release anything. Even assuming he does, you are not getting the thing in your hands anytime soon seeing Slash will be on tour with The Conspirators for a year before writing/recording can even commence, and that is not even counting the inevitable overdubbing sessions. Surely an album cannot arrive earlier than 2023?

[default_]

When Slash says something like "Axl has a ton of shit and were looking into working on that" I see him as a hired hand, it just seems like a new chapter on CD. 

[Lies They Tell]

I agree that in the end it's all up to Axl. But it's been good to hear that Slash wants to do it, cause earlier it was a bit uncertain if Slash is only willing to tour with GNR or does he want to work on an album too. Also all of this feels a bit more promising than before, because I think that the biggest reason why Axl's been hesitant to release new music was because there was no Slash and Duff. If the album would fail, he was the only one to get the blame. Now releasing music should be easier, because it's more like a band again. The public will look at the album as a team effort and praise or blame the whole band if they like it or dislike it. They won't blame only Axl, like they did before. And now people actually want to like the new album. Earlier many people wanted to hate CD before it was even released, cause they hated the fact that Slash wasn't in it.

Simply put eveything's easier for Axl now, so releasing new music should be easier also. Besides I would think that Axl's more motivated too. Slash probably won't stay in the band if Axl isn't willing to release music, and Axl probably wants to keep Slash in the band, so in my opinion the chances of new GNR music is pretty high.

The fact that Slash even revealed that they don't want to talk about new music too much before it's official is a good sign too. We have an explanation for why they don't talk about the next album that much.

[jacdaniel]

3 minutes ago, default_ said:

When Slash says something like "Axl has a ton of shit and were looking into working on that" I see him as a hired hand, it just seems like a new chapter on CD. 

He didn't say that though. You just misquoted him and interpreted it that way. Probably why they don't speak much.

He also said he has lots of Guns ideas. He obviously wants to contribute those as well.   

 

[Nick85]

Without knowing the nitty gritty details of their contracts, I would imagine that if Slash and Duff want something to happen, like recording, it's at the very least a conversation directly with Axl on the subject, whereas the others would likely never ever so much as broach the the subject within an earshot of him.  

But yes, I think at the end of the day all roads end with Axl as far as the big decisions go.  I think 'influence' is the name of the game as far as Slash and Duff go moving forward.

Edited August 21, 2018 by sofine11

[Lies They Tell]

4 minutes ago, jacdaniel said:

He didn't say that though. You just misquoted him and interpreted it that way. Probably why they don't speak much.

He also said he has lots of Guns ideas. He obviously wants to contribute those as well.   

 

How is he misquoting him? This is the exact quote he is referring to: "Axl’s got a ton of shit that he got recorded already, so we’re just going to get in there and just start getting into that thing"

How would you interpret that differently? Obviously Slash has his own ideas too that he wants to work on, but I don't see how daniel_ misquoted him? I don't necessarily agree with his conclusion that Slash is just a hired hand, but I don't think he was misquoting Slash.