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No Holds Barred Thread - Post Anything That Is On Your Mind, Even the Politically Incorrect!


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4 minutes ago, downzy said:

People in Canada and other western countries can hold a different meaning in light of the atrocities that were carried out under the banner adorned with they symbol.  

But none of this has to do with the subject of the discussion, i.e., a community in Canada who named their mine/town ''good omen'' as they were mining prospectors, and named it before the NSDAP were even formed, let alone having committed atrocities. By desiring a name change, you are doing two erroneous things,

A/ Associating the term ''swastika'' with the Nazis. The Nazis never used the term swastika. 

B/ Reading history backwards, decontextualized.

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2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

But none of this has to do with the subject of the discussion

Agreed.  You're the one who keeps bringing up usage in other parts of the world

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

By desiring a name change, you are doing two erroneous things,

A/ Associating the term ''swastika'' with the Nazis. The Nazis never used the term swastika. 

B/ Reading history backwards, decontextualized.

Swastika is the English name for the symbol.  Yes, Nazis never used this term, because there is a german word.  

Again, you have a problem with reading history backwards, then you should have no problem with using the n word.  It wasn't considered a racial slur for several centuries.  Give it a try next time you're out and let me know how it goes.  

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24 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Differently to the swastika in its Hindu context.  Honestly, I think our cultural situations are broadly similar, we’ve both grown up in a western society.

You might be right.  Perhaps I've played Wolfenstein too many times and the symbol and its associations with Nazism has been ingrained.

That said, nearly every person I showed my images from my time India asked why I would take a picture of a swastika and why are they displayed in India.  All except one person were not aware that it held a different meaning and association than what is common in North America.    

Also, I do recall now that my tour guide did make a point to explain to the group why the symbol is used and what it means.  It felt as though the question came up a lot so they felt the need to address it.  

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2 minutes ago, downzy said:

Swastika is the English name for the symbol. 

No, it is Sanskrit.

3 minutes ago, downzy said:

Yes, Nazis never used this term, because there is a german word.  

Cobblers. They could have merely translated swastika which would have thrown forward ,,Viel Glück'' or something similar (,,glücklich'' perhaps?).

7 minutes ago, downzy said:

then you should have no problem with using the n word.  It wasn't considered a racial slur for several centuries.  Give it a try next time you're out and let me know how it goes.  

The difference is that that term was a slur to begin with and aimed at a distinct people, which it categorises by skin colour. Swastika means literally ''good luck'' or ''prosperity''! And still does! 

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13 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

No, it is Sanskrit

It's the word the English language uses to describe the symbol that was used in the Nazi flag.  If you want to waste anymore time arguing over semantics, be my guest.

13 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The difference is that that term was a slur to begin

No it wasn't.  It was a term to describe dark skinned individuals.  The historical account of the term doesn't reveal it to be used as a slur until two hundred years after its first use.  

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6 minutes ago, downzy said:

It's the word the English language uses to describe the symbol that was used in the Nazi flag.  If you want to waste anymore time arguing over semantics, be my guest.

No it wasn't.  It was a term describe dark skinned individuals.  The historical account of the term doesn't reveal it to be used as a slur until two hundred years after its first use.  

No it isn't. It is Sanskrit. If the English language is using that, then it is wrong. It neither describes the symbol on the flag nor the flag itself. 

It merely means ''black'' (masculine) in Latin and thereafter running into the romance dialects, but when applied to a human male I would suggest a term loosely corresponding to ''blacky'' then, which seems sufficiently derogatory to begin with.

Edited by DieselDaisy
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Canadians dont like swastikas because it reminds us how our nation was founded on genocide and that the colonial project, oppression and systemic racism is ongoing.

Like, we can have native Reserves that lack education infrastructure and funding, healthcare infrastructure, and access to safe and reliable tap water. Just don't call a settlement something that might offend our sensibilities.

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

No it isn't. It is Sanskrit. If the English language is using that, then it is wrong. It neither describes the symbol on the flag or the flag itself. 

So what are English people suppose to call the symbol?  What's the correct name for the symbol in English?

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It merely means ''black'' (masculine) in Latin and thereafter running into the romance dialects, but when applied to a human male I would suggest a term loosely corresponding to ''blacky'' then, which seems sufficiently derogatory to begin with.

Again, the first references to the n word surfaced in the 1500s.  It was not until the late 1770s with the slave trade in full swing that the term became a slur.  At least, according to historical records.  So again, if the term was at one point a neutral term to describe someone with black skin, shouldn't your logic still apply?  

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2 minutes ago, downzy said:

So what are English people suppose to call the symbol?  What's the correct name for the symbol in English?

Again, the first references to the n word surfaced in the 1500s.  It was not until the late 1770s with the slave trade in full swing that the term became a slur.  At least, according to historical records.  So again, if the term was at one point a neutral term to describe someone with black skin, shouldn't your logic still apply?  

You should have said it was an English loan word, like sushi or bungalow. The use of the term for the flag is utterly erroneous - yes, I know, everybody says it, ''SA marching with swastikas everywhere'', but it is still incorrect. 

If you wanted to say a black male in Latin you'd say niger (plural nigri)*. Female: nigra. The romance terms spring from this hence. I am not sure when it became derogatory, but it is fair to say when an universal association between servitude was made, perhaps when the Spanish were conquering the Americas? It is difficult to say as so much of Europe's contact with Africa was bound up with slavery and the perceived barbarism of Africa. In its original form it literally just means ''black male/person'', but then I am not entirely sure what is politically correct anymore. We aren't allowed to say ''coloured people'' or ''black people'' now - correct?

*But this is as true if you wanted to say ''a black rock'' or a ''black cat''. The pronunciation is much the same as the word you omit. It is literally impossible to speak Latin and omit the word.

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3 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

I was born and raised in England, entire life, only ever been back home for brief holidays, to a muslim country, my exposure has been almost entirely the Nazi type.  It used to be scraped into the desks in my school.  NF, Nazi signs, I have an up close and personal experience about how those people think and act, believe me.  But at the same time, you realise the world is bigger than your limited experiences.  I could have a visceral kneejerk response and hate all white people right?  Despite knowing otherwise, despite knowing that the vast majority of white people are cool and life is all about the good and the bad and every race has that.  Its convincing though, getting a good old fuckin' pasting inside a phone-booth at chucking out time :lol:  

Isn't that the whole reason behind travel though, to expand your knowledge and horizons and see beyond your understanding?  I realise that shit don't happen overnight.  I mean these places you've been to, the world you've seen, its certainly a shitload more than me, I've seen England, Paris and Pakistan.  What's the take home from all that?  You learn right?  

Great post, Len. 

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2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Hmm, is someone arguing fiercely that we should be okay with swastikas in Europe and North America? :lol:

It is then a good job nobody is arguing fiercely that we should be okay with Hakenkreuze in Europe and North America - do try and pay attention in future?

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1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Maths is now racist,

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To have the apparently-mostly- white-teachers that this school has hired become more inclusive of all the other cultures, they should have our Prime Minstrel teach them the lyrics to the one song he ALSO once dressed up in black face to perform at a talent show,

”come me tally man and tally me bananas / day light come and me wanna go home”

:lol:

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1 hour ago, Silverburst80 said:

In a peak 2020 move Fred Perry has removed the yellow/black polo shirt from it's US stores because of the Proud Boys. Bit late isn't it each member probably owns 5 each.

There’s a negative association with those?  I’ve got one, who the fuck are The Proud Boys?

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2 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

There’s a negative association with those?  I’ve got one, who the fuck are The Proud Boys?

Far-right yank grouping emphasising patriarchy and white genocide theory . Sounds like a bunch of woofters to me. 

PS

You are a member of the Proud Boys now haha?

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2 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

There’s a negative association with those?  I’ve got one, who the fuck are The Proud Boys?

I've got a couple, everyone should have at least one!. Dumb move couldn't they just all wear different coloured ones next time they're out in public?...what do you do then take all Fred Perry polo's off the shelves in the US?

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59 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Far-right yank grouping emphasising patriarchy and white genocide theory . Sounds like a bunch of woofters to me. 

PS

You are a member of the Proud Boys now haha?

Yeah, kick the black bastards out, thats what I say.  Leroy and Paki Patel, comin' over 'ere, taking our jobs, stinking up the place with their fuckin' curry, 100 years ago they'd be slopping out the stables and cleaning my Grandads boots.  I blame the Labour Party, I mean bloody Gandhi, wouldn't eat his dinner and they give him India! :lol:

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5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

American far-right circles - I'm looking at images of The Proud Boys - tend to be different from British far-right groups. American ones are more beardo, hillbilly, Hell's Angels-esque. Ours are more skinheady, footbally, Stella Can ish. 

Alright, I'll have another go:

'We're fuckin' losin' our fuckin' country maaaan, shit is fucked up maaan, fuckin' border jumpin' beaners and n!ggers and fuckin' A-rabs and China.  Fuckin' crime and shit, this used to be a good neighbourhood maaaan, I remember when me and Maw and Paw and lil' Janie would get in our ol' jalopy and go on down to the drive thru and watch Attack of the 500 ft Potato Aliens from Outer Deep Space Nine and order our milkshakes from the waitress on rollerblades, fat chance of that now unless we learn fuckin' spanish.  Oooh I wish I was in the land of cotton, old times there are not forgotten look awaaaaaay, look awaaaaay, look awaaaaay Dixieland!'

 

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