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3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

We therefore would be changing the name of an 112 year old community based on utter historic ignorance!

Yes, because few people are history nerds and 99 percent of people living today recognize and identify the swastika as something evil.  

I believe the n word was not used as a racial slur for two hundred years before it became pejorative.  Perhaps you should include this in your mission to take back what so many have wrong.  You know, from a historical perspective.

Or perhaps you're just the real-life version of Randal from Clerks II:

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All schedule 1 and 2 narcostics should be legalized for any use. Illegality of them does not prevent anyone that wants to from using and leads to crime costing millions. 

I love that Len is now famous for having a lisp and getting sucked off by swans. That'll teach you for calling me fat, Cuntface! @Len Cnut  

It's hilarious when I see staunch conservatives getting outraged over NFL players not standing for the National Anthem. They go on and on about all these rights we have but then demonize someone for e

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33 minutes ago, downzy said:

Yes, because few people are history nerds and 99 percent of people living today recognize and identify the swastika as something evil.  

I believe the n word was not used as a racial slur for two hundred years before it became pejorative.  Perhaps you should include this in your mission to take back what so many have wrong.  You know, from a historical perspective.

Or perhaps you're just the real-life version of Randal from Clerks II:

62693453.jpg

You do not have to be a ''history nerd'' to understand this stuff, which, with good education standards, should actually be information that is known to everyone. Indeed, you merely have to travel anywhere in Asia today to find swastikas ubiquitous! Are you going to start removing swastikas from?

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swastika-in-bao-quoc-pagoda-buddhist-tem

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Are you going to tell Indians to change their given name? 

I do not understand the latter reference. 

PS

'' 99 percent of people living today''?

Do you really want me to set forth the combined percentage of India and China and place it before you?

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44 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You do not have to be a ''history nerd'' to understand this stuff, which, with good education standards, should actually be information that is known to everyone. Indeed, you merely have to travel anywhere in Asia today to find swastikas ubiquitous! Are you going to start removing swastikas from?

1024px-Swastika-seoel_(xndr).jpg

swastika-in-bao-quoc-pagoda-buddhist-tem

swastika2-1024x585.jpg

Are you going to tell Indians to change their given name? 

I do not understand the latter reference. 

PS

'' 99 percent of people living today''?

Do you really want me to set forth the combined percentage of India and China and place it before you?

You must be so much fun at a party. 

”You have a problem with the swastika?  Let me tell you why you and everyone else here is wrong...”

Good times. 

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2 minutes ago, downzy said:

You must be so much fun at a party. 

”You have a problem with the swastika?  Let me tell you why you and everyone else here is wrong...”

Good times. 

I'm not into Kevin Smith's stuff I'm afraid, although I have an old school friend who is. I liked Clerks but his stuff regressed quickly following that film. 

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8 hours ago, downzy said:

You must be so much fun at a party. 

”You have a problem with the swastika?  Let me tell you why you and everyone else here is wrong...”

Good times. 

He's REALLY right though.  You gotta think beyond yourself and your parameters, the fact is the majority of the world don't think of it as a nazi symbol.  Go to Pakistan or India and, aside from a certain educated intellgensia around the big cities the VAST majority of those people see and know that thing as a buddhist symbol.  See world history is a big important thing here in western countries but there are many many many countries in the world that don't teach world history they teach their own history and their own religions.  Places like India, Pakistan, China, Korea, Japan and countries like Bhutan and Cambodia and Taiwan and Sri Lanka (and many others, I'm not an authority on countries with Hindu/Buddhist populations) this is a MASSIVE chunk of the world, all recognise this thing to this day as a hindu symbol.  I go into my local cornershop and they've got it written on the floor outside their shop and next to the statue of their God that sits by the counter.  In India its everywhere, in restaurants and rickshaws and houses of worship and walls and books and over peoples front doors.  99% of people living today in no way recognise that symbol as reflective of evil, there's an entire world out there outside of America, Canada England and Europe (as well as millions of people in those countries, otherwise they'd be fire-bombing hindu temples and cornershops by now) who recognise that symbol for what it is, Asia is like the largest continent in the world is it not?  I think? 

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2 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

He's REALLY right though.  You gotta think beyond yourself and your parameters, the fact is the majority of the world don't think of it as a nazi symbol.  Go to Pakistan or India and, aside from a certain educated intellgensia around the big cities the VAST majority of those people see and know that thing as a buddhist symbol.  See world history is a big important thing here in western countries but there are many many many countries in the world that don't teach world history they teach their own history and their own religions

But we’re not talking about those countries.  The discussion started because someone posted something about a town in Canada named after a word and symbol that has a deeply entrenched and ingrained meaning.  I have been all throughout India and have seen the swastika in various places. As much as it made me uncomfortable I accepted that that part of the world had for the most part was left untouched by both the war but also by the cultural and symbolic impressions the war had on most other parts of the world. 

In Canada and other western countries we still see neo-Nazi groups use the swastika as a form of political speech. Unlike in India, it still has only one connotation to most people living in North America or Europe. I get that things are different in other parts of the world as I have seen it first hand, but the discussion relates to how it is perceived here. There are hundreds of thousands of first and second generation Indians who live in Canada. You will never see them display the symbol here out of respect for what it means to most Canadians even if it means something entirely. 

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8 minutes ago, downzy said:

But we’re not talking about those countries.  The discussion started because someone posted something about a town in Canada named after the a word and symbol that has a deeply entrenched and ingrained meaning.  I have been all throughout India and have seen the swastika in various places. As much as it made me uncomfortable I accepted that that part of the world had for the most part was left untouched by both the war but also by the cultural and symbolic impressions the war had on most other parts of the world. 

In Canada and other western countries we still see neo-Nazi groups use the swastika as a form of political speech. Unlike in India, it still has only one connotation to most people living in North America or Europe. I get that things are different in other parts of the world as I have seen it first hand, but the discussion relates to how it is perceived here. There are hundreds of thousands of first and second generation Indians who live in Canada. You will never see them display the symbol here out of respect for what it means to most Canadians even if it means something entirely. 

Why were you in India? Just interested/travelling?

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2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Why were you in India? Just interested/travelling?

Yes, went to visit a friend and traveled around the country for three weeks. Spent time in Delhi, Agra, Jaiper, Udaipur, Mumbai, Goa, and Jaisalmer. 

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With pandemic brain, all this India talk is just making me pine for Indian lunch buffet. Will I ever get to have Indian lunch buffet ever again?

 

Also, no one has strong feelings about if Spread Eagle Bay should change its name? Or Ass Rock?

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In Hindu and Buddhist culture the swastika is a holy symbol. On the holiday of Divali, Hindu households commonly use the swastika in decorations. Many Indian auto-rickshaws feature the swastika to ward off ill-fortune. Reverence for the swastika symbol in Asian cultures, in contrast to the West's stigmatization of the symbol, has led to misinterpretations and misunderstandings.[

The swastika continues to be used as a symbol of good luck and prosperity in Hindu and Buddhist countries such as Nepal, India, Mongolia, China and Japan. It is also commonly used in Hindu marriage ceremoni

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

 

 

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But we’re not talking about those countries.  The discussion started because someone posted something about a town in Canada named after the a word and symbol that has a deeply entrenched and ingrained meaning.

Right but you said 99% of the world sees it as a nazi thing, thats just incorrect.

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As much as it made me uncomfortable I accepted that that part of the world had for the most part was left untouched by both the war but also by the cultural and symbolic impressions the war had on most other parts of the world. 

Why would it make you feel uncomfortable if you know it doesn't mean that thing to them? 

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Unlike in India, it still has only one connotation to most people living in North America or Europe.

Again, I don't think thats true either, I think a great many people know its not, especially when framed in a hindu or buddhist concept...I mean what do they think they are looking at, brown-skinned believers in the supremacy to the Germanic race? :lol:  Aincent Nepalese Nazi statues?  There's a lot of Indians and Hindus and Buddhists in the western world too, shit, as I was saying earlier (and I live in a working class/lower middle class town just outside London, not some high minded seat of learning) the shop down the street has one painted on the step as you come in, been that way for years, no ones bricked their windows yet.  Seen it all over the place.

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There are hundreds of thousands of first and second generation Indians who live in Canada. You will never see them display the symbol here out of respect for what it means to most Canadians even if it means something entirely. 

Either that or they think you're particularly intolerant (not you personally Downzy ol' buddy ol' pal, the people of Canada) not having any personal experience of Canada I wouldn't know, you certainly seem a nice bunch of lads online.

On a side note, the nazi one is kinda tilted to the side.

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4 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Right but you said 99% of the world sees it as a nazi thing, thats just incorrect

Exactly. The Earth is a population of 7.52 Billion. Hindus  and Chinese make up  47% of the world with 1.2 Billion and 1.15 billion respectfully.

 

I think the Hindus and Bhuddists would be more concerned about making the Jews feel uncomfortable then the Canadians.  Don’t know the population Jews in Canada

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I hate to complicate things further, but this Canuck is addicted to Banh Mi and as such is into China Town frequently (even though Banh mi is Vietnamese). And there are a lot of Buddhist centres that have swastikas in their carved and/or painted entrance ways.

Never just a big ol swastika, mind. They are often part of a larger, ornate thing. And are usually on an angle, compared to the NAZIs one. TBH Ive never really thought twice about it.

I also was given a copy of the Falun Gong book that has a swastika on the inside flap. ("blame it on the Falun Gong..") They are out in front of parliament most days rasing awareness of their plight.

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I'd agree with downzy if the town was founded sometime after 1933 by a commune of North American fascists haha, but we have established that the town - more specifically the mine from which the town is named - precedes the foundation of the NSDAP and certifiably is named in accordance with the word's thoroughly benevolent ancient usage, pertaining to the desires and fortunes of mining prospectors.

To change it would be to elevate human ignorance and error to a position it does not deserve. 

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I know the Nazis didn't invent this symbol yet that's the first thing I think of when I see it. I can imagine that people who have lost their entire family in the war, not being comfortable seeing huge swastika symbols on stores or whatever, even if it means something else. So out of respect and compassion I wouldn't use it in any way.

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Just now, EvanG said:

I know the Nazis didn't invent this symbol yet that's the first thing I think of when I see it. I can imagine that people who have lost their entire family in the war, not being comfortable seeing huge swastika symbols on stores or whatever, even if it means something else. So out of respect and compassion I wouldn't use it in any way.

In Asia?

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

In Asia?

I'm talking about countries that were deeply affected by the horrors of the second world war. Len was talking about stores in London, I would think twice about using a swastika symbol in my store if I owned a store in London.

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Ironically there is more than a whiff of western colonialism about this,

Just because ''we (the west) were stupid enough to take your benign word/symbol (in historical terms) literally last week, symbols which has existed for over two thousand years, and did a lot of bad stuff under its aegis, we are now going to insist on it ''being offensive'' and prohibiting it thank you very much. Please watch Schindler's List and Sophie's Choice''.

6 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I'm talking about countries that were deeply affected by the horrors of the second world war. Len was talking about stores in London, I would think twice about using a swastika symbol in my store if I owned a store in London.

There were few countries that were less affected by the Second World War than China but I believe you refer to exclusively the European theatre?

Context is everything. I'd have to see the context of its usage in London.

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38 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Right but you said 99% of the world sees it as a nazi thing, thats just incorrect.

Then I misspoke. I should have said 99 percent of the western world. 

39 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Why would it make you feel uncomfortable if you know it doesn't mean that thing to them?

For the same reason if I heard Indians using the n word even if it had no negative connotation in India. I have my conditioning, they have theirs. I mean, it’s really that hard to understand why a symbol that means pure evil to me and a billion other people might make one uncomfortable regardless of its benign significance to another culture?

42 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Again, I don't think thats true either, I think a great many people know its not, especially when framed in a hindu or buddhist concept...I mean what do they think they are looking at, brown-skinned believers in the supremacy to the Germanic race? :lol:  Aincent Nepalese Nazi statues?  There's a lot of Indians and Hindus and Buddhists in the western world too, shit, as I was saying earlier (and I live in a working class/lower middle class town just outside London, not some high minded seat of learning) the shop down the street has one painted on the step as you come in, been that way for years, no ones bricked their windows yet.  Seen it all over the place.

Fair enough, but again, we’re talking about western society. For most people here it is a sign of evil. If people who move here choose not to respect that, well, that’s kind of a dick move. 

44 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Either that or they think you're particularly intolerant (not you personally Downzy ol' buddy ol' pal, the people of Canada) not having any personal experience of Canada I wouldn't know, you certainly seem a nice bunch of lads online.

Why is tolerance required by the majority culture when the item at hand provokes immense pain and hurt for most people living in one area?  Sorry, but if anyone should be considered intolerant it’s those who continue to display a symbol meaning hate to so many in a country where the dominant connotation is known and accepted. A Jewish family living in Canada or other western nations shouldn’t have to be told to be more tolerant of those who choose to ignore the profoundly painful that symbol has come to recognize hate and evil.  
 

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3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

There were few countries that were less affected by the Second World War than China but I believe you refer to exclusively the European theatre?

Context is everything. I'd have to see the context of its usage in London.

I agree, but imagine having a swastika symbol that looks exactly like the Nazi one, painted on a store-window in a country where entire minorities have been murdered, and someone is offended or upset by it.... it's too easy to say... ''well, this means something good in my culture, so whether your family was killed 75 years ago by a nation who happened to use the same symbol, tough luck''. If the symbol is different and used in a country that doesn't associate it with the Nazi crimes, it's obviously different, but we were talking about Canada, a country associated with the war and where a lot of minorities live whose families were deeply affected by it.

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Just to reiterate for the third or fourth time.

The town was named 1907-08.

The Nazis were founded 1919-20.

It is therefore certainly the ancient connotation of prosperity, the reasoning behind this naming, and not the connotation connected with 20th century European fascism. 

There is therefore no reason on earth why anyone should be offended by Swastika, Canada. 

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2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Just to reiterate for the third or fourth time.

The town was named 1907-08.

The Nazis were founded 1919-20.

It is therefore certainly the ancient connotation of prosperity, the reasoning behind this naming, and not the connotation connected with 20th century European fascism. 

There is therefore no reason on earth why anyone should be offended by Swastika, Canada. 

Again, nobody here knows or gives a fuck about the ancient connotation. The ancient connotation became less relevant when a group of people took the symbol to represent their murderous rampage that killed millions. The symbol continues to be used by modern day nazis in canada and elsewhere. The ancient connotation in Canada and elsewhere is irrelevant. 

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