soon Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 19 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said: This is quickly going nowhere. We clearly sit at opposite ends of the table regarding this. We can exchange lists of acts that have benefited/suffered from getting into politics but I don't know what that would achieve. Nah, this quickly went to me being correct and you being proven wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR_RNR Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, soon said: Nah, this quickly went to me being correct and you being proven wrong. If that's what you get from the discussion then more power to ya. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said: If that's what you get from the discussion then more power to ya. I didn’t say that’s what I “got from the discussion” Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axlr0s37 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Don't understand why people get annoyed with celebrities for airing their political views. They are citizens who have a right to vote, freedom of speech just like everyone else. Why does being rich and famous mean you can't have an opinion? If anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers can deny science, why can't famous people air opinions on political matters? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 I find the argument that Axl can't talk about politics because he wrote One in a Million 30 years ago, hilarious. I mean, thats really reaching far to try to stifle a voice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsapple Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Axlr0s37 said: Don't understand why people get annoyed with celebrities for airing their political views. They are citizens who have a right to vote, freedom of speech just like everyone else. Why does being rich and famous mean you can't have an opinion? If anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers can deny science, why can't famous people air opinions on political matters? I think most people are stupid as fuck and fmaous people for better or worse have way too much influence on too many of those stupid people, it's a huge power and responsibility so yes they have all the right to speak their mind like anyone, but please make it worthwhile and not just bitch around without substance like Axl. I mean fuck even Kanye has more substance on Twitter than Axl and that is saying something. Look at Michael Jackson for example, he wasn't doing stupid twitter one liners, he wrote actual songs about the environment, poverty, child abuse, racism, war and then some. Look at U2. Look so many people who take action for what they believe in and lead by example not just virtual talk. Axl has Civil War and Madagascar to show for so I just wish he write a good song speaking his mind instead of making an idiot of himself and his fans by what he has shown on Twitter so far. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonfender2323 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 I was always say that because you could do one thing, Sing, Play Pretend dance etc. Doesn't make you an expert on politics. Or being from somewhere else and commenting on another countries politics @Neil Young. The best experts are the people who live and work in the places. People have a right to speak their mind but not to lecture others which is something the political left loves to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 That vid, tho! Well... I suppose that the downtime brought on by the pandemic effects us all differently? I just took up making no-bake cookies. To each there own I suppose Kinda sad that it seems to be scripted - that he's reading it. But this is MAGA victimhood in its purest form. Axl speaks about policy for the most part. But the rebuttals never defend policy, they defend the presidents feelings. Like the reframe the discussion to be about how someone "hates" Trump. And it is difficult to explain to a MAGA that valid criticisms are not the same as hate. Because they actually do hate opposing politicians. And they dont know those politicians policies either. So, its really them projecting their own thinking onto more thoughtful and informed people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonfender2323 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, soon said: And it is difficult to explain to a MAGA that valid criticisms are not the same as hate. Because they actually do hate opposing politicians. And they dont know those politicians policies either. Its also the political/social left that have this issues. Whenever someone criticizes god king Obama the response is always. RACIST!!!. I mean we are talking about a guy who droned a hospital. I always ask people why they think Obama was a great POTUS. its almost always is "Because he is cool or good loking". Whatever the political left accuses the right of doing/being something they are almost always the ones doing it. A perfect example would be a communist criticizing capitalism online on a product that only exists because of capitalism Edited July 22, 2020 by Gibsonfender2323 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, Gibsonfender2323 said: Its also the political/social left that have this issues. Whenever someone criticizes god king Obama the response is always. RACIST!!!. I mean we are talking about a guy who droned a hospital. I always ask people why they think Obama was a great POTUS. its almost always is "Because he is cool". Whatever the political left acuses the right of doing/being something they are almost always the ones doing it. A perfect example would be a communist criticizing capitalism online on a product that only exists because of capitalisim I dont know any lefties who like Obama? No, industrial production of electronics is not something that is unique to capitalism. Ever heard of Sputnik? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonfender2323 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, soon said: I dont know any lefties who like Obama? No, industrial production of electronics is not something that is unique to capitalism. Ever heard of Sputnik? Well all lefties love Obama communists do not. They say Trump supporters are in a cult but Obama could drone a hospital and people would still throw money at him. The 2008 Obama would never be elected in today Democratic Party. This is relevant to this conversation. https://www.cato.org/publications/survey-reports/poll-62-americans-say-they-have-political-views-theyre-afraid-share Edited July 22, 2020 by Gibsonfender2323 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, adamsapple said: I think most people are stupid as fuck and fmaous people for better or worse have way too much influence on too many of those stupid people, it's a huge power and responsibility so yes they have all the right to speak their mind like anyone, but please make it worthwhile and not just bitch around without substance like Axl. I mean fuck even Kanye has more substance on Twitter than Axl and that is saying something. Look at Michael Jackson for example, he wasn't doing stupid twitter one liners, he wrote actual songs about the environment, poverty, child abuse, racism, war and then some. Look at U2. Look so many people who take action for what they believe in and lead by example not just virtual talk. Axl has Civil War and Madagascar to show for so I just wish he write a good song speaking his mind instead of making an idiot of himself and his fans by what he has shown on Twitter so far. So he can't express his opinion because there might be 'stupid' people out there who take it the wrong way? Sorry, but that makes no sense whatsoever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Gibsonfender2323 said: Well all lefties love Obama communists do not. They say Trump supporters are in a cult but Obama could drone a hospital and people would still throw money at him. The 2008 Obama would never be elected in today Democratic Party. In fact his militarism is precisely one of the things the leftists attack about Obama. And leftists would agree with you about your criticism of liberals support for him. No doubt many lefties voted for him, but its not he same as liberals who cheered on every despicable action. I did mention Sputnik, is that why the communist reference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonfender2323 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, soon said: In fact his militarism is precisely one of the things the leftists attack about Obama. And leftists would agree with you about your criticism of liberals support for him. No doubt many lefties voted for him, but its not he same as liberals who cheered on every despicable action. I did mention Sputnik, is that why the communist reference? Depends what kind of Liberalism you are talking about. Today's Republicans are what they call Classical Liberalism. Today' Liberals are basically socialist regressive. You say Lefties as the 1960s peace and love hippie movement. Edited July 22, 2020 by Gibsonfender2323 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, Gibsonfender2323 said: Depends what kind of Liberalism you are talking about. Today's Republicans are what they call Classical Liberalism. Today;s Liberals are basically socialist regressives. Hmm... I do not agree with that analysis. There are a small handful of social dems like AOC. But the party doesn't like her anymore than you do, in fact. Hey - have you ever seen The Rising on youtube? It came to mind just now because we are essentially discussing the ways that leftist thought and conservative thought are frequently aligned (in this case criticizing Obamas militarism). "The Rising with Krystal and Sagar." Krystal is a populist leftist and Sagar is a populist conservative. Krystal is famous for laughing in Bill Mahers face on his tv show. They cover current events in US politics and try to find common ground. I think youd like it. And if you do, then we can discuss it together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonfender2323 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, soon said: Hmm... I do not agree with that analysis. There are a small handful of social dems like AOC. But the party doesn't like her anymore than you do, in fact. Obviously because they would never win another election why do you think they screwed over Burnout? Trump would be like 20 points ahead of Bernie if he was the nominee instead of Grandpa Joe. I have no doubt in my mind that AOC is the future of the Democrat party thats why Joe, Nancy, Chuck and the rest are holding on to power for dear life. and joe doesn't even know he is running for President he is walking trojan horse. Edited July 22, 2020 by Gibsonfender2323 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said: Obviously because they would never win another election why do you think they screwed over Burnout? Trump would be like 20 points ahead of Bernie if he was the nominee instead of Grandpa Joe. I have no doubt in my mind that AOC is the future of the Democrat party thats why Joe, Nancy, Chuck and the rest are holding on to power for dear life. and joe doesn't even know he is running for President he is walking trojan horse. So, no to The Rising. Well... This is a pretty solid shooting down of my bromance proposal. Noted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonfender2323 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 29 minutes ago, soon said: So, no to The Rising. Well... This is a pretty solid shooting down of my bromance proposal. Noted. My heart is broken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said: My heart is broken Now I'll just have to tell you how wrong you are with out the pleasant buffer of discussing a show. Congratulations Gibson, you played yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiv123 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, adamsapple said: Look at Michael Jackson for example, he wasn't doing stupid twitter one liners Twitter was just at the beginning to get lots of users when he died, so no wonder he didnt use twitter Edited July 22, 2020 by Radiv123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR_RNR Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 14 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said: Depends what kind of Liberalism you are talking about. Today's Republicans are what they call Classical Liberalism. Today' Liberals are basically socialist regressive. You say Lefties as the 1960s peace and love hippie movement. Not entirely true, bit I get the sentiment. The popular definition for 'Liberal' has for some reason been expanded to include people that believe in things that are at odds with liberal ideals. I think some people seem to think that if someone is on the left then they're a liberal, which is just silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUnderScott Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, GNR_RNR said: Not entirely true, bit I get the sentiment. The popular definition for 'Liberal' has for some reason been expanded to include people that believe in things that are at odds with liberal ideals. I think some people seem to think that if someone is on the left then they're a liberal, which is just silly. I think you are all a bit too liberal with your overuse of the word liberal 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosso Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GNR_RNR said: Not entirely true, bit I get the sentiment. The popular definition for 'Liberal' has for some reason been expanded to include people that believe in things that are at odds with liberal ideals. I think some people seem to think that if someone is on the left then they're a liberal, which is just silly. OK, let's look for a definition from the three biggest policital movements of the 19th century. "Liberalism, political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics. Liberals typically believe that government is necessary to protect individuals from being harmed by others, but they also recognize that government itself can pose a threat to liberty." "Conservatism, political doctrine that emphasizes the value of traditional institutions and practices." "Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. " Source: https://www.britannica.com/ Edited July 23, 2020 by Sosso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR_RNR Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Sosso said: OK, let's look for a definition from the three biggest policital movements of the 19th century. "Liberalism, political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics. Liberals typically believe that government is necessary to protect individuals from being harmed by others, but they also recognize that government itself can pose a threat to liberty." "Conservatism, political doctrine that emphasizes the value of traditional institutions and practices." "Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. " Source: https://www.britannica.com/ Don't know what you're trying to say with this. Those definitions looks pretty accurate though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosso Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, GNR_RNR said: Don't know what you're trying to say with this. Those definitions looks pretty accurate though. I just wanted to clear some things and I was bored 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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