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The Mandalorian (Star Wars TV show)


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34 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

What? Is that what she said? That's so fucked up. I thought she just retweeted the Capital Building attack in support, which would also be fucked up.

Does an actress being stupid and fucked up in the real world matter in the context of Star Wars though?

That's not what she said but that's how it's being presented. What she actually did was compare today's climate of "you must think exactly like everyone else all of the time" to what happened to Jewish people during World War II. 

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1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

That's not what she said but that's how it's being presented. What she actually did was compare today's climate of "you must think exactly like everyone else all of the time" to what happened to Jewish people during World War II. 

As much as I agree that attitude is unhealthy and corrosive to individuals and society as a whole...comparing being hounded by woke retards or Trump retards or whatever, to the Jews being persecuted in WWII and getting cooked alive in ovens etc - is fucking stupid.

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9 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

That's not what she said but that's how it's being presented. What she actually did was compare today's climate of "you must think exactly like everyone else all of the time" to what happened to Jewish people during World War II. 

That's somehow better? 

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9 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

As much as I agree that attitude is unhealthy and corrosive to individuals and society as a whole...comparing being hounded by woke retards or Trump retards or whatever, to the Jews being persecuted in WWII and getting cooked alive in ovens etc - is fucking stupid.

 

9 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

That's somehow better? 

It's a Star Wars thread, so I'll bow out. I don't want to derail it any further. My opinion is that what she's said has been misrepresented from the very beginning and I'm disappointed that she was fired. 

Not trying to have the last word or anything, just don't want to derail the thread any further. 

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1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

What? Is that what she said? That's so fucked up. I thought she just retweeted the Capital Building attack in support, which would also be fucked up.

Does an actress being stupid and fucked up in the real world matter in the context of Star Wars though?

She mentioned something how in parts of Europe that are now part of Ukraine, neighbours would turn on and kill Jews themselves because of the pressure and narratives put forward by the incoming Nazi invasion and likened it all to how liberals treats anyone who”thinks differently” (ie believes the election was stolen, believes in Qanon, doesn’t believe the majority consensus on covid-19 or the attack on the Capitol).

And for the record, I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong for saying such a stupid and nonsense thing. But I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with Disney for wanting nothing to do with someone who would make such claims.  People have the freedom to say what they want while others have the freedom to associate with whomever they choose. 

I don’t see it anything more than that. 

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11 minutes ago, downzy said:

She mentioned something how in parts of Europe that are now part of Ukraine, neighbours would turn on and kill Jews themselves because of the pressure and narratives put forward by the incoming Nazi invasion and likened it all to how liberals treats anyone who”thinks differently” (ie believes the election was stolen, believes in Qanon, doesn’t believe the majority consensus on covid-19 or the attack on the Capitol).

And for the record, I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong for saying such a stupid and nonsense thing. But I also don’t think there’s anything wrong with Disney for wanting nothing to do with someone who would make such claims.  People have the freedom to say what they want while others have the freedom to associate with whomever they choose. 

I don’t see it anything more than that. 

Would it be more appropriate if they simply issued a statement saying something like Disney does not approve of these views, rather than fire her?

You know about how Disney is apparently pro BLM but they censored John Boyega in China?

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17 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Would it be more appropriate if they simply issued a statement saying something like Disney does not approve of these views, rather than fire her?

You know about how Disney is apparently pro BLM but they censored John Boyega in China?

It’s not necessarily an either or situation though or one that contains or demands consistency. Disney has been a progressive company (to a point) for decades.  She should have known better considering who her employer was.  It would be similar to a pitchman for Hobby Lobby publicized their progressive beliefs. 

And the question isn’t limited to how Disney felt about her comments. I know if I was a cast mate or a member of the production crew I wouldn’t feel all that rosey about working with her.  Artistic outputs are often affected by team chemistry. The product would surely have been affected if most other people who she worked with took offence to her words and weren’t all that jazzed about working with her anymore.

As for Disney being hypocritical for not extending their values to business in China, I think that’s fair. Ultimately they feel the billions to be made is worth more than upholding western liberal values and you and I are free to criticize them for it.

But that doesn’t really change the fact that in North America, where they are trying to position  Disney+ as a viable alternative to Netflix for families, keeping employed someone who is so brash and public about their nonsense views affects their bottom line. There is more freedom in North America to adhere to their stated values and hence they choose to exercise their rights.

And keep in mind, this wasn’t the first instance. From what I read she was warned repeatedly to tamper down her public sentiments and she failed to respond accordingly. In no world does it make sense that we require businesses or individuals to keep employed people who profess views they disagree with. 

Ultimately if you disagree with Disney’s decision you’re free to cancel their streaming service or not buy their products. Similarly, had they not terminated Carano’s employment those who disagreed could take the same actions. 

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Where is the line though, and who gets to decide? It seems like Twitter and other platforms seem to be the deciding factor in what's ok or not ok to say. As a society, do we like that? Do we like that mob mentality gets to decide what's ok or not ok to say? 

I don't think Disney is wrong for firing here (although I feel it was a poor choice) nor do I think what Gina said was good or smart (nor do I find it absolutly awful either). She made a comparison, a poor one yes, but we all say and do poor things from time to time. That deserves loss of employment? Basing employment on things that were said on the internet is a slippery slope.

 

Honestly most of us on this forum could NEVER work for Dinsey, just based on the things we've said here. Fat shaming Axl Rose... You can't work here. Before someone says "comparing what Gina said to fat shaming Axl Rose is hardly a fair comparison." Where is the "line" and who gets to decide it? That's the issue, or at least it WILL be eventually. If fat shaming Axl Rose, causes another "heavy" member to really feel bad about themselves. They commit suicide, and leave a note saying it's what people on mygnr said that caused it. Would Downzey be held accountable then? It IS his forum. Could he be held accountable in the court of law? He allowed to happen, on HIS forum. Begs the question...

 

I'm by NO MEANS encouraging that type of behavior. I'm saying that it IS a problem that is just getting worse, and unfortunately many liberals don't see a problem with it. 

 

This is a deeper topic than I want to get into here, but when the topic of morality comes up, it's a slippery slope. I find it amusing when morality topics are discussed within the confines of something like Star Wars. The ONLY moral issues Star Wars should be worried about is the Jedi vs Sith, that's it. I also don't believe for one second that woke, SJW Twitter puritans are some sort of moral compass.

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17 minutes ago, Jw224 said:

The line is probably comparing being republican to experiencing genocide, lol. 

But WHO gets to decide that, that's my point? 

On a counter point, those that support Disney's right to fire Gina, was the NFL right to black ball Colon Kaepernick? Or is that some how different? You can't have it both ways.

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22 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

But WHO gets to decide that, that's my point? 

On a counter point, those that support Disney's right to fire Gina, was the NFL right to black ball Colon Kaepernick? Or is that some how different? You can't have it both ways.

NFL owners were within their rights to not hire Kap because of his political expression on their property on their dime. 

That doesn’t mean it was the right moral decision, but it’s still their call.  Nike decided it was in their business interests and gave Kap a ton of money to use his likeness and cause to promote their products  

The only thing worse than a business owner deciding what they want hearing from their employees is some bureaucrat deciding. 

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8 hours ago, Jw224 said:

Not at all surprised and not really that bothered honestly. She was clearly given plenty of chances and this is all her own doing. 

Pretty much how I feel. Her absence shouldn't even really affect the show much. She's a side character that pops up here and there, big deal

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I was gonna leave the thread be so it could go back to being Star Wars, but I see you're still discussing the situation so I won't feel bad for derailing lol. 

In any case, while I don't agree with every single thing in this video (canceling Disney+ isn't going to do anything, etc), this cat explains a lot of how I feel about the situation:

 

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1 hour ago, downzy said:

NFL owners were within their rights to not hire Kap because of his political expression on their property on their dime. 

That doesn’t mean it was the right moral decision, but it’s still their call.  Nike decided it was in their business interests and gave Kap a ton of money to use his likeness and cause to promote their products  

The only thing worse than a business owner deciding what they want hearing from their employees is some bureaucrat deciding. 

Well we agree for once. 

I'm of the opinion right now that focusing on what unites us is FAR more fruitful than focusing on what divides us. As such, promoting things cause divide (whether intentional or by accedient), should be frowned on, by both sides of the political spectrum. 

Take what's going on in the NBA at the moment, in regards to the National Anthem. Even though, as an American, it would make me sad if they stopped playing it before sporting events. For the sake of unity, it might be for the best. Athletes have the right to say or do what they feel is right. While spectators, fans, etc have the right to agree or disagree with them for it. But to continually focus on the issue, is only creating further divide at this point. So removing the element that is causing the divide (in this case the anthem), will provide both sides with less feeling of animosity. As well as returning focus back to why everyone is here to begin with, in this case the sport.

As for Star Wars and Disney, the Mandalorian has restored my faith in the brand, and as such ANYTHING that compromises that is threatening to me. That's why when I first heard what she said, my initial feeling was "why?" Why poke the bear, even if it was accidental or unintentional... Just don't do it. 

Having said that, I didn't want her to be fired over it. Not because I agree or disagree with her, but because Star Wars doesn't need any more controversy. 

I also feel that if I were Jon Favero and Dave Filoni I would March into Disney CEO's office and say "if she goes, we go." Not because I would want to back her personally, or support what she said, but because as creators, Disney is fostering a hostile work environment. A place where people can get fired over tweets being taken out of context. As a creator, they can't control what everyone in the cast and crew says and does. But to cause such a severe reaction, while Dave and Jon were in the midst of writing the next season. So now they have to drastically change how they planned the story to unfold. All because of a tweet and twitter puritans response. 

That's not a place where creative people can flourish imo. Star Wars as a brand is also NOT in the place where it can afford these types of controversies. Right now, Jon Favero and Dave Filoni have ALL the power when it comes to Star Wars. If they walked, Star Wars would be done. The franchise couldn't survive that, not after it finally is on the up swing. I would walk into Disney CEO's office and remind him of that, if I were them. If Disney doesn't like that... Well good luck on you future Star Wars content. 

There is SO MUCH going on behind the scenes at Disney in regards to Star Wars, that most don't even know about. It's Kathleen Kennedy vs Favero and Filoni (with Lucas helping them from the shadows). It's not like the MCU, where Kevin Fiegie has complete creative control. Star Wars is literally right in the middle of a civil war behind the scenes. So much so, that removing the sequel trilogy from cannon is on the table. I could go on and on here.

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I mean, anyone can get fired over what is said online on major websites because it represents the company. Most people won't post opinionated stuff on LinkedIn where their company is connected. Posting dumb shit on her social media platforms as a public persona working for Disney is just asking for it  as far as I can see, they even gave her a chance or two. Gina should have just shit posted on a GNR forum, instead

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Just now, ZoSoRose said:

I mean, anyone can get fired over what is said online on major websites because it represents the company. Most people won't post opinionated stuff on LinkedIn where their company is connected. Posting dumb shit on her social media platforms as a public persona working for Disney is just asking for it  as far as I can see, they even gave her a chance or two. Gina should have just shit posted on a GNR forum, instead

True

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26 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

I also feel that if I were Jon Favero and Dave Filoni I would March into Disney CEO's office and say "if she goes, we go." Not because I would want to back her personally, or support what she said, but because as creators, Disney is fostering a hostile work environment. A place where people can get fired over tweets being taken out of context. As a creator, they can't control what everyone in the cast and crew says and does. But to cause such a severe reaction, while Dave and Jon were in the midst of writing the next season. So now they have to drastically change how they planned the story to unfold. All because of a tweet and twitter puritans response. 

I agree with most of your post except this.

First, she played a supporting character that wasn’t in every episode. The overarching narrative arc of the first two season had been resolved. The notion that such a move resulted in major upheaval that couldn’t be overcome is nuts. If they could get past Carrie Fisher dying, they can move past this.

Second, how is it not fostering a hostile work environment by keeping her on?  You honestly think her co-workers, who are most likely liberals, wanted to work with a raging idiot who brought attention to their work for all the wrong reasons?  Remember, this wasn’t the first time she had been called out for broadcasting some rather wretched opinions and attitudes.

Third, why are you convinced that this was solely the call of Disney executives?  Jon Favreau is half Jewish. You don’t think it’s possible Jon and other executive producers weren’t too thrilled to keep working with someone who would use a horrible moment in human history to make an ignorant and wrong argument?  

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For the record, if I made movies or was in the public spotlight, if I had the ability (higher in command, like a Kevin Feigie), I would have a STRICT no social media clause in the contracts. I would say "I don't care what your political or religious views are, if you want to work here, then we have a ZERO tolerance policy." This would solve a LOT of issues imo.

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On the flipside, a part of working is working with people you disagree with or even fucking hate. I have worked with absolute idiots, but what are you going to do about it? I guess Hollywood is different (no shit)

I've seen some of her past posts and the latest one in question. They are dumb, but I have seen a lot worse from coworkers at old places of work. Maybe I am missing some past posts. She is probably just an idiot, and since she is a side character in a few episodes a season, they didn't need to even announce her canning.

She is also a costar in the biggest TV show that is also made by Disney. So yeah, she is probably extra stupid. What you post as a public figure will reflect the company for better or worse

Oh well, whatever 

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17 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

On the flipside, a part of working is working with people you disagree with or even fucking hate. I have worked with absolute idiots, but what are you going to do about it? I guess Hollywood is different (no shit)

I've seen some of her past posts and the latest one in question. They are dumb, but I have seen a lot worse from coworkers at old places of work. Maybe I am missing some past posts. She is probably just an idiot, and since she is a side character in a few episodes a season, they didn't need to even announce her canning.

She is also a costar in the biggest TV show that is also made by Disney. So yeah, she is probably extra stupid. What you post as a public figure will reflect the company for better or worse

Oh well, whatever 

I think the difference between Carano and your co-workers (or you and I), nobody really gives a fuck about what the latter group has to say. Most of us work in careers where the reputation and perception of the output is not questioned solely by the public broadcasting of one or more employee’s opinions (to a certain degree, of course).

For people like Kapernick and Carano, they felt expressing their personal views on certain matters superseded their responsibilities and obligations that their jobs required. Most of us don’t have jobs that have higher standards for what we say online because most of us are relatively inconsequential to the organization or the work we do and are not the public face of our operations. 

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44 minutes ago, downzy said:

I agree with most of your post except this.

First, she played a supporting character that wasn’t in every episode. The overarching narrative arc of the first two season had been resolved. The notion that such a move resulted in major upheaval that couldn’t be overcome is nuts. If they could get past Carrie Fisher dying, they can move past this.

Second, how is it not fostering a hostile work environment by keeping her on?  You honestly think her co-workers, who are most likely liberals, wanted to work with a raging idiot who brought attention to their work for all the wrong reasons?  Remember, this wasn’t the first time she had been called out for broadcasting some rather wretched opinions and attitudes.

Third, why are you convinced that this was solely the call of Disney executives?  Jon Favreau is half Jewish. You don’t think it’s possible Jon and other executive producers weren’t too thrilled to keep working with someone who would use a horrible moment in human history to make an ignorant and wrong argument?  

To me, it's like when James Gunn got fired from Guardians 2 (although I think Dave Batista got him back). Or even what's going on with Johnny Depp. Do we have to agree with people politically, personally, or whatever to enjoy their work? 

I have heard that Dave and Jon went to bat for her, and we're UPSET when they heard the news. Obviously it only rumors, but these Star Wars rumors tend to be pretty accurate, from what I've heard so far. 

Overall I agree that Star Wars and the Mandalorian can survive this issue, it's just a dangerous presidence that's being set. In Star Wars context anyways.

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It's really as simple as her repeatedly saying things that got widespread backlash (which btw I genuinely think Disney were letting her off with a warning at first) that culminated in her holocaust comments, which Disney were not going to stay silent on or defend. When you work for a massive corporation they are not obliged to keep you working when you do something that could damage their reputation. Realistically they were not going to just say "The things she said were horrible" and then keep her employed, whatever your opinion on the situation it's easy to admit that this would have just made them look worse and as if they didn't actually care about the issues raised. 

Edited by Jw224
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14 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Pretty Orwellian of Disney to fire her for expressing a bit of her retarded political views on the internet. If only they'd fire people like Kathleen Kennedy.

Kathleen Kennedy has produced four starwars movies that have all made over a billion dollars each (one of which made two billion), a hit live action show (the first of the franchise at that), a successfully-revived animated show (clone wars season 7), another successful animated show (Rebels), a successful game (fallen order) and plenty of successful books and comics. All of those have happened under her watch, and with all the newly-announced shows and films, the future seems promising. Sure, she has had some bumps in the road too, but overall, her achievements have outweighed her mistakes. No reason to fire her, especially since she’s already close to retirement anyways (she’s turning 68 this year).

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5 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Well we agree for once. 

I'm of the opinion right now that focusing on what unites us is FAR more fruitful than focusing on what divides us. As such, promoting things cause divide (whether intentional or by accedient), should be frowned on, by both sides of the political spectrum. 

Take what's going on in the NBA at the moment, in regards to the National Anthem. Even though, as an American, it would make me sad if they stopped playing it before sporting events. For the sake of unity, it might be for the best. Athletes have the right to say or do what they feel is right. While spectators, fans, etc have the right to agree or disagree with them for it. But to continually focus on the issue, is only creating further divide at this point. So removing the element that is causing the divide (in this case the anthem), will provide both sides with less feeling of animosity. As well as returning focus back to why everyone is here to begin with, in this case the sport.

As for Star Wars and Disney, the Mandalorian has restored my faith in the brand, and as such ANYTHING that compromises that is threatening to me. That's why when I first heard what she said, my initial feeling was "why?" Why poke the bear, even if it was accidental or unintentional... Just don't do it. 

Having said that, I didn't want her to be fired over it. Not because I agree or disagree with her, but because Star Wars doesn't need any more controversy. 

I also feel that if I were Jon Favero and Dave Filoni I would March into Disney CEO's office and say "if she goes, we go." Not because I would want to back her personally, or support what she said, but because as creators, Disney is fostering a hostile work environment. A place where people can get fired over tweets being taken out of context. As a creator, they can't control what everyone in the cast and crew says and does. But to cause such a severe reaction, while Dave and Jon were in the midst of writing the next season. So now they have to drastically change how they planned the story to unfold. All because of a tweet and twitter puritans response. 

That's not a place where creative people can flourish imo. Star Wars as a brand is also NOT in the place where it can afford these types of controversies. Right now, Jon Favero and Dave Filoni have ALL the power when it comes to Star Wars. If they walked, Star Wars would be done. The franchise couldn't survive that, not after it finally is on the up swing. I would walk into Disney CEO's office and remind him of that, if I were them. If Disney doesn't like that... Well good luck on you future Star Wars content. 

There is SO MUCH going on behind the scenes at Disney in regards to Star Wars, that most don't even know about. It's Kathleen Kennedy vs Favero and Filoni (with Lucas helping them from the shadows). It's not like the MCU, where Kevin Fiegie has complete creative control. Star Wars is literally right in the middle of a civil war behind the scenes. So much so, that removing the sequel trilogy from cannon is on the table. I could go on and on here.

You’re spewing total bullshit that you heard from a YouTuber. There’s no hard evidence to suggest any kind of “civil war” going on with starwars right now, nor is there any hard evidence suggesting that they’re gonna decanonize the sequel trilogy. If anything, mandalorian has been reinforcing its canonical status with all of its hints towards snoke and the first order.

you people really need to grow some brains. Kids today really like the sequel trilogy, in the same way that people my age like the prequel trilogy.

Edited by rocknroll41
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5 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

For the record, if I made movies or was in the public spotlight, if I had the ability (higher in command, like a Kevin Feigie), I would have a STRICT no social media clause in the contracts. I would say "I don't care what your political or religious views are, if you want to work here, then we have a ZERO tolerance policy." This would solve a LOT of issues imo.

I’m pretty sure you can’t ban people from using social media in their personal lives just because you employ them. That’s a violation of freedom of speech...

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