The UFO thread

[Ixtlan]

1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I'm more interested in the radar/sensor data. If we get confirmation in the upcoming government report about the numbers that Lue Elizondo has been talking about (as far as g forces and speed and maneuverability of these things), that's more compelling to me than a video.

Everything soul monster said in this thread is highly accurate. His insights and rationals are spot on.

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

14 hours ago, Ixtlan said:

Everything soul monster said in this thread is highly accurate. His insights and rationals are spot on.

Mr Soul Monster seems to have disappeared.

[SoulMonster]

29 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Mr Soul Monster seems to have disappeared.

I just don't have anything new to say and don't want to rain on the parade if those who are excited about this

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

3 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I just don't have anything new to say and don't want to rain on the parade if those who are excited about this

Rain away man, I want to see what the more skeptical guys thoughts are on the latest developments.

Edit: Specifically, I think it'll be very key what this June report from Congress says. If they back up what Lue Elizondo said "craft going at least 13,000 mph, no wings, no obvious signs of propulsion, no sonic booms, instantaneous acceleration, trans medium, right hand turns, etc" surely you'd have to relent and say, ok, this is beyond US, Russian, or Chinese technology and the ET hypothesis has got to be at least considered now.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Basic_GnR_Fan

[Ixtlan]

2 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Rain away man, I want to see what the more skeptical guys thoughts are on the latest developments.

Edit: Specifically, I think it'll be very key what this June report from Congress says. If they back up what Lue Elizondo said "craft going at least 13,000 mph, no wings, no obvious signs of propulsion, no sonic booms, instantaneous acceleration, trans medium, right hand turns, etc" surely you'd have to relent and say, ok, this is beyond US, Russian, or Chinese technology and the ET hypothesis has got to be at least considered now.

I’m skeptical and I’ve asked many people I know what they think of the videos and nobody knows what to make of it. I’m of the thought that if there is intelligent life in this universe the they are too far away to communicate with us. And, it’s a huge assumption that life elsewhere would be more advanced than us. There could be a planet full of dinosaurs that never experienced a catastrophic event or a planet of Neanderthals. Soul monster listed four possibilities for the videos. I agree with his first Choice.  

[EvanG]

 

20 minutes ago, Ixtlan said:

There could be a planet full of dinosaurs that never experienced a catastrophic event or a planet of Neanderthals. Soul monster listed four possibilities for the videos. I agree with his first Choice.  

Yes, there could be, and there could be both, and there could be nothing at all. We still can't even comprehend how big the universe is, there may be thousands of planets, some with only bacterial life, some with species that aren't as advanced as us, and some with species that may have been travelling through space for thousands of years. We have only been doing it for half a century and we are already going to Mars now, imagine what species can do that are thousands of years ahead of us.

edit,

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by EvanG

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

2 hours ago, Ixtlan said:

I’m skeptical and I’ve asked many people I know what they think of the videos and nobody knows what to make of it. I’m of the thought that if there is intelligent life in this universe the they are too far away to communicate with us. And, it’s a huge assumption that life elsewhere would be more advanced than us. There could be a planet full of dinosaurs that never experienced a catastrophic event or a planet of Neanderthals. Soul monster listed four possibilities for the videos. I agree with his first Choice.  

I don't take the videos as evidence by themselves. I take them into context as to what the pilot and radar eyewitnesses have said along with what Lue Elizondo (who worked for ATTIP and analyzed the radar and sensor data) have said. If the video's were all we had, I would be right with Soul in his scenario number 1. Right now, if what Lue and others have said is correct about the data (and they have said there are many, many cases like the Nimitz, that isn't a one shot deal) then I'm honestly leaning towards the ET hypothesis over the others.

The rubber is really going to hit the road when we get the Congressional Report. If we find out that Lue, the pilots and radar operators were full of it or were just all mistaken, I'll eat crow and say you guys were right to be more skeptical than I was. But I think this is getting too big to be liars or simple mistakes. We shall see though.

Even before this recent evidence, my approach was to conservatively assume we were not the highest or lowest in the intelligent species hierarchy of the Universe. 

[EvanG]

I'm pretty down-to-earth and I think a lot of it can be explained like UFO sightings or crazy other stories, but I have a hard time believing that none of it is real. I just can't be that close minded. I already think that there is probably intelligent life out there somewhere, so then it's not so hard to imagine that some of them might be way more advanced and can travel through space in a way that we can't even fathom right now.

This is an exciting time because more and more credible people are stepping forward now and talking about what they have seen or experienced. Not so long ago you were a loony if you believed any of this, now more people are starting to take this seriously or at least consider the possibility.

[Ixtlan]

3 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I don't take the videos as evidence by themselves. I take them into context as to what the pilot and radar eyewitnesses have said along with what Lue Elizondo (who worked for ATTIP and analyzed the radar and sensor data) have said. If the video's were all we had, I would be right with Soul in his scenario number 1. Right now, if what Lue and others have said is correct about the data (and they have said there are many, many cases like the Nimitz, that isn't a one shot deal) then I'm honestly leaning towards the ET hypothesis over the others.

The rubber is really going to hit the road when we get the Congressional Report. If we find out that Lue, the pilots and radar operators were full of it or were just all mistaken, I'll eat crow and say you guys were right to be more skeptical than I was. But I think this is getting too big to be liars or simple mistakes. We shall see though.

Even before this recent evidence, my approach was to conservatively assume we were not the highest or lowest in the intelligent species hierarchy of the Universe. 

The thing is even if there is advanced life forms then they would still be part of the universe. The universe is the real mystery. Nobody knows why it exists. 

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

2 hours ago, Ixtlan said:

The thing is even if there is advanced life forms then they would still be part of the universe. The universe is the real mystery. Nobody knows why it exists. 

That's to assume they aren't interdimensional...if that's even a thing.

[Ixtlan]

1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

That's to assume they aren't interdimensional...if that's even a thing.

It could be possible for a species to discover secrets of the universe that would allow inter-dimensional travel or maybe to transcend this reliant entirely. 

[SoulMonster]

13 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Rain away man, I want to see what the more skeptical guys thoughts are on the latest developments.

Has there been any new developments? Isn't this the same old story of some guys in the military claiming to have witnessed something but now telling the story in new channels? As far as being able to conclude on what was observed, have we come any further?

I can't remember what I wrote before, but this might be three new perspectives:

- Statistics. Occasionally equipment malfunctions, occasionally weather phenomena create weird stuff, occasionally people lie about things, occasionally multiple people lie about things in conspiracies. These things just happen but are rare. But when you multiply with the number of people involved, the number of observations, the number of times people point cameras at the sky, the number of times an event takes place, it follows that the rarest of outcomes will happen now and then. That each year some remarkable observation will take place that just seems to good to be true, but actually follows from the laws of probability theory when exceedingly rare outcomes manifest themselves because of the humongous number of events. I don't think we humans are very good at taking into account the Law of Truly Large Numbers. If there is a million-to-one chance that flying goose will fly in formation that from a specific angle creates a spitting image of a car, then photos of this will emerge every now and then because of the sheer amount of people photographic the sky. My point is, we must not be deceived by seemingly fantastical observations considering how often we observe things.

- Distances. As I believe I wrote about before, I believe in life in the universe, even intelligent life. My dad learnt me Drake's Equation after he took me on a mountain top to look at the night sky one day, and I have quite a few times played around with the factors and trying to come up with various numbers for the amount of intelligent extraterrestrial civilizations in the universe (from much less than 1 to billions). I find the notion that we should be alone bordering on religious hubris. I believe the universe is teeming with life. But, that doesn't mean we will ever be able to communicate, much less, meet with them. Because the distances are so vast between hospitable planets. Someone mentioned the fact that we are close to send humans to Mars, yes, sure, but the distance from Earth to Mars is just 3x10^8 km. The distance to our closest solar system is  4*10^13 km. It is not just a case of travelling a bit further. It takes the sun more than 4 years to travel the distance from our closet neighbouring star system, but mere minutes to reach us from Mars! And I get the point that advanced, alien technologies may allow us to travel at speeds close to the speed of light, but that's a huge assumption and the amount of energy required for acceleration is staggering. Science fiction writers frequently evade the issue by using wormholes that bend spacetime and stuff, but that is, unfortunately, just scientific speculation at this time. So to me, it is very likely that the gulf of distance between us and them can never be traversed, even if an alien civilization is much more intelligent than us and have much more time to develop technologies. Which brings me to the last point...

- Time. Stars come and go. More specifically, the typical lifecycle of a star system is about 10 billion years. This means we are about halfway until we as humans disappear. We have spent half our time in existence at just coming up with mobile phones. I am not saying a more intelligent species couldn't develop techs much quicker, and maybe they evolve through a much more long-living star like a red dwarf. Of course. My point is simply that we or they don't have indefinite time available and this must be taken into consideration as a constraint when considering what is likely. 

- Evolution. I take for granted aliens will have been formed through evolution. Not likely based on the same molecules as on earth, but that the process of random change followed by non-random selection is the only naturalistic process that can form life. But the thing about evolution is that it just adapts creatures to their environments. It doesn't move towards any specific goal, except being well-adapted. And from studying evolution here on earth, it is clear that evolution of  high intelligence is too costly to frequently be advantageous to a species. Which is why we are the only very intelligent species on earth. Most life forms here on earth can manage splendidly without being smart, or even have a brain. This is likely the case elsewhere in the universe too. Aliens will have been evolved to just tackle the cognitive difficulties that they have to tackle to propagate, to navigate the difficulties of their immediate surroundings. Anything more is a waste of resources, from an evolutionary perspective. From this follows that (like on earth), most alien lifeforms will not be intelligent - far from it. And those that are intelligent, like humans, may not be intelligent enough to tackle the question of interstellar travel, because that might require much more in terms of brainpower than evolution will ever come up with.

In conclusion, despite there being other intelligent beings scattered through the vast space of the universe, I fear none of them will be able to develop technology that will allow for communication with others, simply because of the constraints of time and space.

Edited May 21, 2021 by SoulMonster

[superloconoriega]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Has there been any new developments? Isn't this the same old story of some guys in the military claiming to have witnessed something but now telling the story in new channels? As far as being able to conclude on what was observed, have we come any further?

I can't remember what I wrote before, but this might be three new perspectives:

- Statistics. Occasionally equipment malfunctions, occasionally weather phenomena create weird stuff, occasionally people lie about things, occasionally multiple people lie about things in conspiracies. These things just happen but are rare. But when you multiply with the number of people involved, the number of observations, the number of times people point cameras at the sky, the number of times an event takes place, it follows that the rarest of outcomes will happen now and then. That each year some remarkable observation will take place that just seems to good to be true, but actually follows from the laws of probability theory when exceedingly rare outcomes manifest themselves because of the humongous number of events. I don't think we humans are very good at taking into account the Law of Truly Large Numbers. If there is a million-to-one chance that flying goose will fly in formation that from a specific angle creates a spitting image of a car, then photos of this will emerge every now and then because of the sheer amount of people photographic the sky. My point is, we must not be deceived by seemingly fantastical observations considering how often we observe things.

- Distances. As I believe I wrote about before, I believe in life in the universe, even intelligent life. My dad learnt me Drake's Equation after he took me on a mountain top to look at the night sky one day, and I have quite a few times played around with the factors and trying to come up with various numbers for the amount of intelligent extraterrestrial civilizations in the universe (from much less than 1 to billions). I find the notion that we should be alone bordering on religious hubris. I believe the universe is teeming with life. But, that doesn't mean we will ever be able to communicate, much less, meet with them. Because the distances are so vast between hospitable planets. Someone mentioned the fact that we are close to send humans to Mars, yes, sure, but the distance from Earth to Mars is just 3x10^8 km. The distance to our closest solar system is  4*10^13 km. It is not just a case of travelling a bit further. It takes the sun more than 4 years to travel the distance from our closet neighbouring star system, but mere minutes to reach us from Mars! And I get the point that advanced, alien technologies may allow us to travel at speeds close to the speed of light, but that's a huge assumption and the amount of energy required for acceleration is staggering. Science fiction writers frequently evade the issue by using wormholes that bend spacetime and stuff, but that is, unfortunately, just scientific speculation at this time. So to me, it is very likely that the gulf of distance between us and them can never be traversed, even if an alien civilization is much more intelligent than us and have much more time to develop technologies. Which brings me to the last point...

- Time. Stars come and go. More specifically, the typical lifecycle of a star system is about 10 billion years. This means we are about halfway until we as humans disappear. We have spent half our time in existence at just coming up with mobile phones. I am not saying a more intelligent species couldn't develop techs much quicker, and maybe they evolve through a much more long-living star like a red dwarf. Of course. My point is simply that we or they don't have indefinite time available and this must be taken into consideration as a constraint when considering what is likely. 

- Evolution. I take for granted aliens will have been formed through evolution. Not likely based on the same molecules as on earth, but that the process of random change followed by non-random selection is the only naturalistic process that can form life. But the thing about evolution is that it just adapts creatures to their environments. It doesn't move towards any specific goal, except being well-adapted. And from studying evolution here on earth, it is clear that evolution of  high intelligence is too costly to frequently be advantageous to a species. Which is why we are the only very intelligent species on earth. Most life forms here on earth can manage splendidly without being smart, or even have a brain. This is likely the case elsewhere in the universe too. Aliens will have been evolved to just tackle the cognitive difficulties that they have to tackle to propagate, to navigate the difficulties of their immediate surroundings. Anything more is a waste of resources, from an evolutionary perspective. From this follows that (like on earth), most alien lifeforms will not be intelligent - far from it. And those that are intelligent, like humans, may not be intelligent enough to tackle the question of interstellar travel, because that might require much more in terms of brainpower than evolution will ever come up with.

In conclusion, despite there being other intelligent beings scattered through the vast space of the universe, I fear none of them will be able to develop technology that will allow for communication with others, simply because of the constraints of time and space.

with all due respect, all the data out there makes your reply come across as ignorant. There's a lot of hard evidence (material recovered and analyzed from crashes, army videos, cellphone recordings, historical accounts (the los alamos case most recently) that makes it clear how SOMETHING is happening regarding another intelligence trying to communicate through symbols or events digestible to human understanding with the intention of generating some type of consciousness change in mankind. I'll leave you with this excerpt from Jacques Valle's newly released book: Trinity, the best kept secret.

edit: link is not working , but you can check it out here:

https://imgur.com/a/aBEvmDz

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by superloconoriega

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, superloconoriega said:

with all due respect, all the data out there makes your reply come across as ignorant. There's a lot of hard evidence (material recovered and analyzed from crashes, army videos, cellphone recordings, historical accounts (the los alamos case most recently) that makes it clear how SOMETHING is happening regarding another intelligence trying to communicate through symbols or events digestible to human understanding with the intention of generating some type of consciousness change in mankind. I'll leave you with this excerpt from Jacques Valle's newly released book: Trinity, the best kept secret.

edit: link is not working , but you can check it out here:

https://imgur.com/a/aBEvmDz

 

Yeah, no, I haven't seen any data that demonstrably proves that extraterrestrial beings have visited earth or communicated with humans, and if such data existed it would be first-page news and the source of countless scientific papers. What we have is lots of people saying they have seen something and some video clips etc that don't demonstrably prove anything.

[EvanG]

It's interesting to discuss this with someone with a scientific approach, but at the end of the day they will label everything as unlikely because it's scientifically difficult to grasp. And that's fair. But you have to entertain the notion that in other galaxies there are different rules, that there are lifeforms that have an understanding of space travel, wormholes, time and dimension, and god knows what else, that we can't even begin to imagine because we have only just started to explore all of this and are basically still clueless about a lot of it. But that's hard to do, especially for scientists.

[SoulMonster]

31 minutes ago, EvanG said:

It's interesting to discuss this with someone with a scientific approach, but at the end of the day they will label everything as unlikely because it's scientifically difficult to grasp. And that's fair. But you have to entertain the notion that in other galaxies there are different rules, that there are lifeforms that have an understanding of space travel, wormholes, time and dimension, and god knows what else, that we can't even begin to imagine because we have only just started to explore all of this and are basically still clueless about a lot of it. But that's hard to do, especially for scientists.

It's not hard to do, but if we allow ourselves to entertain basically anything including those things that violate the laws of nature as we know them or for which we have no reason to assume is real, then all things can be real and it is a somewhat pointless exercise. Said differently, if we have to invoke esoteric explanations like wormholes and quantum mechanics to explain observations on Earth, I fear we are on a very weak foundation. 

[superloconoriega]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Yeah, no, I haven't seen any data that demonstrably proves that extraterrestrial beings have visited earth or communicated with humans, and if such data existed it would be first-page news and the source of countless scientific papers. What we have is lots of people saying they have seen something and some video clips etc that don't demonstrably prove anything.

i'm not talking about anything extraterrestrial, but there IS a lot of evidence accounting to the fact that 

1-there's craft floating around with abilities beyond known physics (the aircraft radar and other systems data (such as airport control radar and visual confirmation from pilots in both commercial and military planes)  from the nimitz incident, gimbal + similar cases in Mexico, Chile, Spain , Japan (which HAVE been on the cover of newspapers and nighttime news coverage wolrdwide, not just USA).

 

How does this evidence "do not prove anything"?. In any case, there's no evidence to proof these are not solid objects demonstrating amazing abilities (which also have been documented as being able to communicate with radio signals - such as in the encounter with Spanish pilot Juan Ignacio Lorenzo Torres :

Also dont forget the 1952 ufo over the white house apparition that caused massive news coverage, prompting the creation of an official investigative committee that would evolve into the disinfo program project blue book, whose own director rather dismissed later as nothing more but a smokescreen and not really a serious effort). Just because it was half a century ago that doesnt mean that sometime UFOs WERE the topic of discussion and way open in their presence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington,_D.C._UFO_incident)

2-Chemical analysis from crashed debris demonstrate how even though the chemical composition is not esoteric there would be the need of a weightless environment for the material to be arranged as is (as stated by Eric Davis multiple times when talking about off world vehicles, found also in writing on the DOD AATIP slides regarding potential enemy capabilities and breakdown of the program, look it up if you desire).  

On-site markings evidencing truth in witness statements such as burned grass and soil depressions consisting with physical descriptions of the objects and causing effects lasting decades on the area's vegetation beyond the witness scientific comprehension to even come up with it (again, the trinity book is excellent for a detailed analysis of cases like these), correlating witness accounts regarding objects "supernatural" performances (including photography and video such as in the French wave of UFO's in the 50's) and whole small town communities being open and acceptant to the fact of alien bases in the surroundings, such as the towns of tepoztlan and tampico (playa miramar) in mexico.

3-the Oumuamua interstellar object has been scientifically analysed as most likely extraterrestrial craft by Avi Loeb, head of the Astronomy department in Harvard.

4-The countless witness to different type of beings, such as praying mantis, grays, etc, seen by multiple persons at the same time, like  the Ariel School in Zimbawe or documented by the dozens in Valle's Passport to Magonia going back centuries ago with similar descriptions in a variety of settings and cultures) or those studied by harvard  psychiatrist John Mac. 

5-Statements from multiple directors of security agencies, in USA, UK, Israel, Russia, Spain.. etc as well as thousands of declassified papers regarding recovered materials, MJ12 program, other countries encounters ( spain and uK most famously)...

honestly i could go on and on, but the info is out there by the tons

[superloconoriega]

i just found your denial of something so obvious funny ...

knowing myself VARIOUS people in direct contact with extraterrestrials and other types of beings... this info being so open in certain communities and having seen myself other entities and craft at a REAL CLOSE RANGE... narrowing the talk to "unknown craft" and "extraterrestrial" origin without grasping the true nature of what is happening in the world..  you're gonna be in for a treat very soon my friend. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, superloconoriega said:

i'm not talking about anything extraterrestrial, but there IS a lot of evidence accounting to the fact that 

1-there's craft floating around with abilities beyond known physics (the aircraft radar and other systems data (such as airport control radar and visual confirmation from pilots in both commercial and military planes)  from the nimitz incident, gimbal + similar cases in Mexico, Chile, Spain , Japan (which HAVE been on the cover of newspapers and nighttime news coverage wolrdwide, not just USA).

 

How does this evidence "do not prove anything"?. In any case, there's no evidence to proof these are not solid objects demonstrating amazing abilities (which also have been documented as being able to communicate with radio signals - such as in the encounter with Spanish pilot Juan Ignacio Lorenzo Torres :

Also dont forget the 1952 ufo over the white house apparition that caused massive news coverage, prompting the creation of an official investigative committee that would evolve into the disinfo program project blue book, whose own director rather dismissed later as nothing more but a smokescreen and not really a serious effort). Just because it was half a century ago that doesnt mean that sometime UFOs WERE the topic of discussion and way open in their presence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington,_D.C._UFO_incident)

2-Chemical analysis from crashed debris demonstrate how even though the chemical composition is not esoteric there would be the need of a weightless environment for the material to be arranged as is (as stated by Eric Davis multiple times when talking about off world vehicles, found also in writing on the DOD AATIP slides regarding potential enemy capabilities and breakdown of the program, look it up if you desire).  

On-site markings evidencing truth in witness statements such as burned grass and soil depressions consisting with physical descriptions of the objects and causing effects lasting decades on the area's vegetation beyond the witness scientific comprehension to even come up with it (again, the trinity book is excellent for a detailed analysis of cases like these), correlating witness accounts regarding objects "supernatural" performances (including photography and video such as in the French wave of UFO's in the 50's) and whole small town communities being open and acceptant to the fact of alien bases in the surroundings, such as the towns of tepoztlan and tampico (playa miramar) in mexico.

3-the Oumuamua interstellar object has been scientifically analysed as most likely extraterrestrial craft by Avi Loeb, head of the Astronomy department in Harvard.

4-The countless witness to different type of beings, such as praying mantis, grays, etc, seen by multiple persons at the same time, like  the Ariel School in Zimbawe or documented by the dozens in Valle's Passport to Magonia going back centuries ago with similar descriptions in a variety of settings and cultures) or those studied by harvard  psychiatrist John Mac. 

5-Statements from multiple directors of security agencies, in USA, UK, Israel, Russia, Spain.. etc as well as thousands of declassified papers regarding recovered materials, MJ12 program, other countries encounters ( spain and uK most famously)...

honestly i could go on and on, but the info is out there by the tons

I am not qualified to assess this evidence, but trust that those that are would make this into a huge news story if it unequivocally pointed to extraterrestrials having visited earth. What has hit the major news channels is still just cases of "some guys believe they say something amazing and (occasionally) this footage seems to support it". It is simply not enough for most people to believe something as extraordinary as aliens because you still can't rule out lies, aberrations, deception, conspiracies, technical malfunction, etc etc, which are, in my opinion, far more likely explanations. I accept that it is enough for you, but I trust why you understand it is not enough for me. 

[superloconoriega]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

I am not qualified to assess this evidence, but trust that those that are would make this into a huge news story if it unequivocally pointed to extraterrestrials having visited earth. What has hit the major news channels is still just cases of "some guys believe they say something amazing and (occasionally) this footage seems to support it". It is simply not enough for most people to believe something as extraordinary as aliens because you still can't rule out lies, aberrations, deception, conspiracies, technical malfunction, etc etc, which are, in my opinion, far more likely explanations. I accept that it is enough for you, but I trust why you understand it is not enough for me. 

i agree on your last statement, but i find overlooking the fact that this has been a huge news story multiple times on various contries disturbing. Why would you deny it and paint it as if not just because you're not a believer? All the videos declassified by the multiple international agencies have been huge news, i can tell you for a fact that when the marine in mexico shared their video it was the main story on mexican network television, same with the UFO crazy of the 50's, the roswell crash, etc... 

[superloconoriega]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I am not qualified to assess this evidence, but trust that those that are would make this into a huge news story if it unequivocally pointed to extraterrestrials having visited earth. What has hit the major news channels is still just cases of "some guys believe they say something amazing and (occasionally) this footage seems to support it". It is simply not enough for most people to believe something as extraordinary as aliens because you still can't rule out lies, aberrations, deception, conspiracies, technical malfunction, etc etc, which are, in my opinion, far more likely explanations. I accept that it is enough for you, but I trust why you understand it is not enough for me. 

also it comes across as very conspirational to try to account all this evidence to "technical malfunction"... there's not one case that's gonna be THE answer to the phenomena, you gotta look at all of them and take an assesment of what's happening, it's pretty clear there's deception involved in the phenomenon, but there's no way for any human intelligence -known to the scientific or political community at least- to come up with these types of events. If anything - and again, i recomend reading Valle's biography, be it Messengers of Deception or just at least his latest book Trinity, there's a clear pattern of an ideological manipulation behind these apparations. I never said extraterrestrial, BUT not human indeed...

[EvanG]

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It's not hard to do, but if we allow ourselves to entertain basically anything including those things that violate the laws of nature as we know them or for which we have no reason to assume is real, then all things can be real and it is a somewhat pointless exercise. Said differently, if we have to invoke esoteric explanations like wormholes and quantum mechanics to explain observations on Earth, I fear we are on a very weak foundation. 

Scientifically it is impossible to comprehend, therefore for many it is either unlikely or impossible at all. So it is hard to entertain that notion. But I understand what you're saying obviously. I don't know if there are other species visiting Earth. But with everything that is coming out, everything that has been written about it, etc., I don't want to dismiss it either just because we can't back it up with scientific evidence or possibility as of now. From a scientific point of view we still know so little regarding all of this, it wouldn't make sense (to me) to label it as unlikely or definitely not possible. I want to be open minded even if I don't have (the limited) scientific knowledge we have right now on my side.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Scientifically it is impossible to comprehend, therefore for many it is either unlikely or impossible at all. So it is hard to entertain that notion. But I understand what you're saying obviously. I don't know if there are other species visiting Earth. But with everything that is coming out, everything that has been written about it, etc., I don't want to dismiss it either just because we can't back it up with scientific evidence or possibility as of now. From a scientific point of view we still know so little regarding all of this, it wouldn't make sense (to me) to label it as unlikely or definitely not possible. I want to be open minded even if I don't have (the limited) scientific knowledge we have right now on my side.

I wouldn't say I am dismissing it. It's not like we are talking about godly existence or anything . I just find it much more likely we haven't been visited by aliens than that we have. But it is absolutely not impossible. So again, I don't want to rain on anybody's parade here and sort of make it seem I dismiss it entirely, or think less of any of you for believing it. I don't. But when asked to contribute I just wanted to point to a few things not everybody may be considering when thinking about aliens visiting earth, and which I believe at the very least lowers the likelihood of this having ever happened. But again, I am not dismissing it and I will look forward with excitement for any actual evidence, beyond personal anecdotes and ambiguous footage, that suggests we have indeed been honored with a visit.

[superloconoriega]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

I wouldn't say I am dismissing it. It's not like we are talking about godly existence or anything . I just find it much more likely we haven't been visited by aliens than that we have. But it is absolutely not impossible. So again, I don't want to rain on anybody's parade here and sort of make it seem I dismiss it entirely, or think less of any of you for believing it. I don't. But when asked to contribute I just wanted to point to a few things not everybody may be considering when thinking about aliens visiting earth, and which I believe at the very least lowers the likelihood of this having ever happened. But again, I am not dismissing it and I will look forward with excitement for any actual evidence, beyond personal anecdotes and ambiguous footage, that suggests we have indeed been honored with a visit.

i understand your point, but like i said, these things HAVE been considered -they come across as illogical explanations for an illogical but real event.

finally (and im just taking this endeavour because i believe that without taking a deep dive into the topic it's easy to be misinformed) saying that "I am not qualified to assess this evidence, but trust that those that are would make this into a huge news story" is a contradiction if you later state that you cannot account for conspiracies, decepcion, lies.

There's TONS of evidence of goverment cover up (the fact that many gov. withhold specifically the UFO files) and evidence destruction and withholding (the photographs taken by an officer regarding the Zambora case),   UFO groups infiltration and intimidation (read: "they knew too much about flying saucers (a book from the freakin 50's), the phoenix lights local gov. fiasco, the entire Roswell saga, the recent withholding for 50 extra years of the UK UFO files... 

Like i said earlier. The info IS out there. There's not a single case that's gonna give you the answer, you gotta look at the entire documented phenomenon from the last 200 years and find the patterns that ARE there. Even having CLOSE encounters myself, for the longest time i was in denial. The truth is, if you do the research - like many scientists have been doing for a half century - in secrecy (as documented in Valle's ¨the invisible college" book and furthered discussed in his latest), there's no confussion about the phenomena being real or not... it just is my friend.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, superloconoriega said:

i understand your point, but like i said, these things HAVE been considered -they come across as illogical explanations for an illogical but real event.

finally (and im just taking this endeavour because i believe that without taking a deep dive into the topic it's easy to be misinformed) saying that "I am not qualified to assess this evidence, but trust that those that are would make this into a huge news story" is a contradiction if you later state that you cannot account for conspiracies, decepcion, lies.

There's TONS of evidence of goverment cover up (the fact that many gov. withhold specifically the UFO files) and evidence destruction and withholding (the photographs taken by an officer regarding the Zambora case),   UFO groups infiltration and intimidation (read: "they knew too much about flying saucers (a book from the freakin 50's), the phoenix lights local gov. fiasco, the entire Roswell saga, the recent withholding for 50 extra years of the UK UFO files... 

Like i said earlier. The info IS out there. There's not a single case that's gonna give you the answer, you gotta look at the entire documented phenomenon from the last 200 years and find the patterns that ARE there. Even having CLOSE encounters myself, for the longest time i was in denial. The truth is, if you do the research - like many scientists have been doing for a half century - in secrecy (as documented in Valle's ¨the invisible college" book and furthered discussed in his latest), there's no confussion about the phenomena being real or not... it just is my friend.

ok, mulder