Raz Cue - An Open Letter To Duff McKagan

[killuridols]

3 hours ago, RONIN said:

Needless to say, any Illusion era documentary they release officially will be an airbrushed pg-13 version where they photoshop out the drugs and groupies

"While on the road, crew members were required to keep their walkie-talkies on 24/7, in case a band member needed something. One night in Venezuela, Duswalt had his girlfriend with him — they’d been having problems due to her fears about his crazy rock ’n’ roll road life — when the walkie-talkie squawked at around 2 o’clock in the morning.

'I thought to myself it was probably [bassist] Duff [McKagan] wanting someone to get him a drink because he ran out of vodka,' he writes. But instead, and to his and his girlfriend’s dismay, they heard a man’s voice saying, 'Gentleman, the ladies are here. Let the games begin.'

He jumped to shut off the walkie-talkie, but his now pissed-off girlfriend told him to leave it on.

The next sound they heard from the walkie-talkie was giggling; then, from the hallway, what sounded like a stampede.

Duswalt opened the door and saw 'about 50 naked women right outside my door, walking down the hall.' The next day, he learned that 'the promotor … thought it would be really cool and impressive to empty a whorehouse out and bring them all to the hotel via bus … naked.' "

Craig Duswalt - Welcome to my Jungle

 

lol imagine a biopic with that scene

[Blackstar]

39 minutes ago, Azifwekare said:

Also, it seems he's calling out Duff/Axl about an allegation that he denies in the very book he plugs at the start, or am I missing something?

Yes, and in the book he describes it in a way that suggests that he had witnessed it and that he knew the girl for quite some time.

What is he going to say now, that he wasn't there, that he was wrong that she picked someone else in the line or that he knew her? 

And regardless, the epithets he used about her in the book show that he doesn't really have any sensitivity or compassion for the underage girls around them and what could happen to them - more of the contrary, I'd say.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Blackstar

[Draguns]

8 hours ago, Tom-Ass said:

And they were my idols in my adolescence.. \m/

Mine as well. 

[Blackstar]

Slash (MTV, June 1992):  I pray for the guys that have to edit [the UYI documentary], because there’s a lot of stuff to take out, you know? (laughs) [...] You know, stuff that we don’t want to have. Nothing bad - as far as you know. 

----

We'd have never gotten an uncensored version of the documentary anyway...

[Azifwekare]

1 hour ago, Jordan Rose said:

Fuck this virtue signalling, me 2 bullshit. 

I'll admit, various things around this story don't add up for me. However, did you read the story killuridols linked to in her post? If it turns out to be true, that would be a horrific thing to happen to somebody. And even if this particular story isn't true, you may be shocked to learn that that kind of thing does indeed happen to so many people.

So, with that in mind, I must ask you two questions. Firstly, do you think what was described is an acceptable thing to do to someone? Secondly, is there a valid reason we should be made aware of as to why someone who would do something like that shouldn't be called out and held accountable?

Hopefully, thinking about that may help you understand the need for this "me 2 bullshit".

[D..]

Hadn't it been from this forum, I may never have heard of that open letter. You shouldn't make the promotion of such morons...

All I see is some retard with a political agenda seeking attention and maliciously trying to make Axl & Duff look as dirty & bad & corrupt as Weinstein & Trump...  Over a 30 years old story that's had conflicting versions and that will remain in the past. Fuck that shit. Trump makes him laugh everyday? Good for him. I'd rather listen to some good music. I have zero interest in whatever Trump has to say on twitter.

This #metoo movement and all of the bullshit that's been floating around has been useful for at least one thing: knowing who the bad persons are. With all of the false accusations, people who had shut up for so long and making stuff up to get their 15 minutes fame and possibly a payday. It's mindblowing that so many people are put on the Weinstein level automatically after some so-called victim says whatever, with no proof. Look at what's happening with Kevin Spacey, it's unbelievable.

As someone stated: if we had to dig up every dirty story from Rock History, there'd be virtually no rock band left. I agree 100%.

That being said, I don't believe Axl has ever raped anyone. So many groupies wanted to fuck Axl back then, I'm sorry but I have zero faith in women on that one, unless I'm proven wrong with hard evidence. As for Stephanie Seymour, her life speaks for herself. She married an ugly billionaire solely for the money and assurance she'd had nothing to worry about for the rest of her life. Period. I will absolutely never believe a goldigger. 

Regarding Duff statement, again, and I'm going to say it seriously this time: give that guy a break. He's matured, he is over 50 years old, has been sober for decades, has a nice family he has to take care of. You can't blame him for trying his best to do what he can for his family. His kids wouldn't like to hear rape or drug stories on national television from their dad. Sure he could just say nothing like Axl does, it's probably the best solution, but you can't really blame him. He has a different life now. Respect to him & the boat.

Let's just enjoy the music. Fuck all of these dramas. 

 

[Ratam]

But, he still defend Trump that supossed ly make the same things that GNR supossedly make too❓ nonsense. He have politic agenda.

[MaskingApathy]

3 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

How old was perla when her and slash slept together during the illusions tour?.

17 I think.

[killuridols]

Does Raz Cue have an account in this forum?

I wish he would be here to talk to us and clarify some things up.

While it might seem that he has a political agenda, he's at the same time helping #Michelle make her story more visible to many people.....

[The Holographic Universe]

19 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Does Raz Cue have an account in this forum?

I wish he would be here to talk to us and clarify some things up.

While it might seem that he has a political agenda, he's at the same time helping #Michelle make her story more visible to many people.....

Her story is garbage. It’s 35 years ago and has zero bearing today. None. 

[Original]

3 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

How old was perla when her and slash slept together during the illus

At least (again - allegedly)  she wasn’t 14.   https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1266664/Mandy-Smith-I-DID-sleep-Bill-Wyman-I-14--man-life-God.html

[Duwz]

21 hours ago, Sosso said:

Donald Trump cracks me up almost every day. He is without a doubt the most punk rock, anti-establishment president in our great nation’s history? We “The Deplorables” knowingly and eagerly elected an outsider and disrupter to deliver a magnitude 8.0 shakeup to the corrupt, inefficient and power mad “Swamp.” Where we go one, we go all. MAGA!

I couldn't believe I managed to reach this point at the letter, but when I did, I laughed really hard.

Trump literally represents everything the old white pseudo-rich male celebrity establishment is. And that has been around the eastern culture for the last 100 years. Take a guy that says grab her by the p*ssy and make him president. Change the face and the wig, and he could be your dad/grandpa in the 50s. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Duwz

[DeadSlash]

16 hours ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

The first manager of L.A. Guns and Guns N' Roses.

Either way, this is old news, and if the above-posted interviews are anything to go by, Axl and Slash were already investigated and got off back then (even if they did bear some culpability). 

"Old news" doesn't mean anything anymore.  If people can be protested for shit they said on social media 10 years ago, even though people knew about it back then, and the apologized for it back then... but somehow it's "new" and needs to be relitigated in the public sphere, than a possible rape sure can come back and burn someone. 

[DeadSlash]

All other factors aside, just boiling this down to it's core, when you are the person who wrote the lyric "Turn around bitch, I got a use for you." calling out someone for saying "grab em by the pussy" and acting like it's just the most disgusting thing in the world is pretty hypocritical, and absurd.

 

If anything, just shut the fuck up about the subject.  How would you NOT think that would come back at you?

[bigpoop]

12 hours ago, killuridols said:

Well, the crime was never "hidden".... there has been numerous reports in the press about what happened. The thing is no one paid attention to it, in part because the narrative used was that of an anecdote... like even Axl and Slash talked about it and they described the sexual act as consented, plus we never heard the girl's side of the story.

 

There's even a reference to it in the Appetite For Destruction thanks list: "Richard Caballero (for keeping Axl and Slash outta jail)"

[Lio]

3 hours ago, killuridols said:

Does Raz Cue have an account in this forum?

I wish he would be here to talk to us and clarify some things up.

While it might seem that he has a political agenda, he's at the same time helping #Michelle make her story more visible to many people.....

He seems like a Trump supporter who's certainly not an advocate of metoo. He's just pissed about not being able to make those type of jokes again and wants some attention. He doesn't care about the woman. Didn't then and doesn't now.

He changes his story about her because he hadn't heard her side. What did he think? She'd confirm she was a hysterical girl obsessed with Axl? She told the police she was raped at the time and still says that now. (While now she's saying she kept quiet, which is a lie, because we know she didn't) Furthermore, he can't clarify anything, as he wasn't there, apparently. So he can only tell us he said she said. 

Axl and Slash were there and they've both given us their accounts, more or less. Now the girl (supposedly, do we even know for sure it was her?) is giving her side.

I think at this point you can just decide who you want to believe. We'll never know for sure.

All I know is they lived a fucked up life back then with a lot of messed up people around. You had to be messed up to just be there at all.

 

[jimmythegent]

Duff is naïve at best to stir up the hornets nest with this metoo shit. He is clearly inviting accusations of hypocrisy given Guns’ history.

Rock stars have largely escaped unscathed; I guess largely given the kind of stereotypical aggrandising of the typical rock star lifestyle. But that could all change and surely a rockstar of the magnitude of Axl Rose would be the biggest scalp out there - especially given Guns’ recent re-emerging as global superstars again. 

 

At any rate, whatever the truth in this particularly sordid incident (of which there are clearly many), it’s clear it is as an unpleasant and sleazy act at best , a gross and serious sexual assault at worst. 

 

When the allegations of abuse around Axl surfaced in around 1994, he went to ground for a long time - this clearly wasn’t the only reason but the tide had long turned against that era of rock star in 1994.

I do wonder if this stuff gets kicked up and combed through again, if not only the public would be less accepting of Guns, but also would Axl enter another  (perhaps permanent this time) period of self imposed exile 

[Ratam]

People criticize Duff for his hipocrisy, i remember that someone as John Lennon used beat Cynthia his first wife, and he wrote "Woman is the hooray for tolerance! of the world" too.... But Lennon now is considerate like a symbol of peace and love. People can change too and Duff changed. But this person that Raz Cue defend with such passion and is President don't changed too much, still in his old age.

[estrangedtwat]

13 hours ago, janrichmond said:

I'm on the fence with this story. 

BELIEVE ALL WOMEN!!!!!

[DieselDaisy]

14 minutes ago, Ratam said:

People criticize Duff for his hipocrisy, i remember that someone as John Lennon used beat Cynthia his first wife, and he wrote "Woman is the hooray for tolerance! of the world" too.... But Lennon now is considerate like a symbol of peace and love. People can change too and Duff changed. But this person that Raz Cue defend with such passion and is President don't changed too much, still in his old age.

The difference is, Lennon admitted he was an arsehole, and wouldn't re-write history.

[Live Like a Suicide]

12 minutes ago, estrangedtwat said:

BELIEVE ALL WOMEN!!!!!

I disagree. I take a woman's allegations the same as a man's. It requires evidence, and the burden of proof lays at the feet of the accuser. The evidence in this case was lacking back then, let alone now. There is reason to believe that something may have happened, but that's about it. It never went anywhere.

[DieselDaisy]

About that rape thing, both Rose and Slash were on the run from the cops for awhile. Geffen threw hush money about and got the thing dropped. 

Guns were utter scumbags. Stradlin used to sell heroin. Slash seemed to have an unfortunate habit of being around junkies when they die. Slash and Duff used to have blowjob games with groupies. And then there is Rose who is the crème de la crème for repellent behaviour, beating up women, racism, generally treating people like excrement.

They were a horrible bunch. I don't understand what McKagan thinks he is doing, trying to re-write history. Better to man up and admit they were an appalling bunch. This is basically what John Lydon and people like that do. 

[Blackstar]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

About that rape thing, both Rose and Slash were on the run from the cops for awhile. Geffen threw hush money about and got the thing dropped. 

What's the source for this? I know it's in a book (just vaguely implied, not clearly stated), but what's the original source? Or is there any other source besides that book?

Edited July 2, 2019 by Blackstar

[killuridols]

11 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Her story is garbage. It’s 35 years ago and has zero bearing today. None. 

It's because of people like you that these stories get shelved for 35 years.

7 hours ago, Lio said:

Furthermore, he can't clarify anything, as he wasn't there, apparently. So he can only tell us he said she said. 

He says he was there 

We do need clarification. Well... I do need it.

1 hour ago, Live Like a Suicide said:

I disagree. I take a woman's allegations the same as a man's. It requires evidence, and the burden of proof lays at the feet of the accuser. The evidence in this case was lacking back then, let alone now. There is reason to believe that something may have happened, but that's about it. It never went anywhere.

A 15 years old girl running away naked from a "Hellhouse" full of adult men is enough evidence that something illegal was going on. Doesnt matter what she says or what they say, adult people shouldn't be having sexual relationships with minors. Period.

 

[MaskingApathy]

1 hour ago, Ratam said:

People criticize Duff for his hipocrisy, i remember that someone as John Lennon used beat Cynthia his first wife, and he wrote "Woman is the hooray for tolerance! of the world" too.... But Lennon now is considerate like a symbol of peace and love. People can change too and Duff changed. But this person that Raz Cue defend with such passion and is President don't changed too much, still in his old age.

Lennon was a huge hypocrite too.