Raz Cue - An Open Letter To Duff McKagan

[Ratam]

1 hour ago, Draguns said:

By saying very few cases, you are actually undermining false accusations which is an issue. It's an issue for women since it  doesn't help women who have been sexually assaulted or raped. It's an issue for men since once you are accused, your career and life is over or at the very least it's tough to come back from something like that. 

As I previously stated, I knew of a woman that falsely accused a guy of rape. She got away with the false accusation due to her father knowing someone. 

Here few months ago has a case of one girl that accused a guy via Facebook of rape, then this guy commited suicide. This girl post after that it was a lie.

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, Draguns said:

By saying very few cases, you are actually undermining false accusations which is an issue.

I say few cases because they ARE few cases. You can't say that the amount of false accusations comes even close to the amount of real ones.

2 hours ago, Draguns said:

It's an issue for women since it  doesn't help women who have been sexually assaulted or raped.

Women who have been sexually assaulted or raped for real usually have to deal with the flaws and coldness of the judicial system.

Aside from having to deal with the threats of the perpetrator and the society in general, always blaming the victim for having wore this or that, for being in the wrong place, for not defending herself, etc etc.

2 hours ago, Draguns said:

As I previously stated, I knew of a woman that falsely accused a guy of rape. She got away with the false accusation due to her father knowing someone. 

You know of ONE woman who did it... and how many are truly abused and raped daily in your country? Do you know those statistics?

I'm not saying it can't happen. It can and it does, but I dont see how this is massive or serious enough to discourage the #metoo movement.

Besides, I really doubt someone can get away with false rape accusations. With a serious investigation, truth always comes out.

----

Edit: watch out what they are telling you in the previous post ^. Some major details are missing from that story. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by killuridols

[Powderfinger]

3 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Then what matters? Seriously this story has no significance.

Does it matter to you if the Music was made by 15 year old rapists or not. IF what has been said IS true? 

I can handle liking a band with junkies and alcoholics in it. But I’d prefer not to support rapists if I can. 

You stated “only the music matters” well that’s to you. Some of the rest of us might care who made it. 

 

[Powderfinger]

3 hours ago, Draguns said:

I totally agree with this! I knew of a woman who accused a guy of rape back in the day. The truth came out that it was consensual sex. She had issues with mental health and her father.  Another woman that I had deeply cared about was molested by a woman when she was young.

I'm not against the #metoo movement since it has raised awareness, but as a single guy I'm also a bit more cautious as well.    

Ive slept with a lot of women in my time (not bragging, but for the purpose of this post I’m stating this) and I can sleep at night soundly knowing I’ll never be accused of anything. 

Because I have nothing to fear.

I can and do meet a lot of women I’ve slept with and can still grab a coffee or help them move get each other employment  etc etc. We may have parted on shitty terms, but if you’re a gentleman you don’t have to worry. 

Any man worried right now is a good thing.

This comes from a man. 

Nothing to hide = No problem. 

It’s is very much also an inequality issue as it it’s a disproportionate amount of women that is taken advantage of as opposed to men. Especially in he workplace. And most of the statistics out there have to be shit. 6-7 friends of mine were raped over the past 20+ Years. None of them went to the cops. 

I’m guessing for every 1 guy innocently accused of rape there are 100 rape Victims who haven’t reported the crime against them. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Powderfinger

[The Holographic Universe]

32 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

Does it matter to you if the Music was made by 15 year old rapists or not. IF what has been said IS true? 

I can handle liking a band with junkies and alcoholics in it. But I’d prefer not to support rapists if I can. 

You stated “only the music matters” well that’s to you. Some of the rest of us might care who made it. 

 

Emoji eye roll. There is zero evidence to support that claim, so using the word rapist and getting all indignant about it is pointless. 

[Powderfinger]

2 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Emoji eye roll. There is zero evidence to support that claim, so using the word rapist and getting all indignant about it is pointless. 

Don’t avoid the question. I will phrase it again, broken down smaller this time. 

Does it matter to you IF what is being said IS True. 

[The Holographic Universe]

26 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

Don’t avoid the question. I will phrase it again, broken down smaller this time. 

Does it matter to you IF what is being said IS True. 

Calm down Vic Mackey. Here’s what I believe. Axl kicked out a girl who had been hanging around the scene during that time. That girl was getting on his last nerve and, by all accounts he kicked her out of the place he was at while she was nude. The rape never happen. And I don’t do engage in “what if’s” , especially on subjects such as rape while on a music forum. 

[killuridols]

44 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Emoji eye roll. There is zero evidence to support that claim, so using the word rapist and getting all indignant about it is pointless. 

Underage naked girl in a house with adult men is the only evidence that you need here. Sex with minors is illegal in most fairly decent countries. If you have sex with minors you are a rapist. It's not rocket science.

[Duwz]

1 hour ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Emoji eye roll. There is zero evidence to support that claim, so using the word rapist and getting all indignant about it is pointless. 

How can't you see a naked minor in a house with adult men isn't rape? WTF...

[The Holographic Universe]

1 hour ago, Duwz said:

How can't you see a naked minor in a house with adult men isn't rape? WTF...

Are you actually fucking serious? The fact that you and any of the others fucks around here who think its rape have stuck around to debate it shows you don’t care at all. If I felt these guys wronged her I’d be out with no notice. I wouldn’t be hanging around and claiming some dubious moral high ground. That 15 year old girl probably did all kinds crazy shit during that period and one incident above all gets attention because it relates to one of the biggest bands of all time. I’m almost certain that girl has done plenty of fucked up shit. And why the fuck was she there? Pffffftttttt. And, for most of human history marriage after a women’s first period was normal. That was consider the threshold into adulthood, so save me the speech about this shit on a fucking Guns N‘ Roses forum. Jeez. If you believe then leave this forum, but can’t because your addicted to shit talking. And, while I don’t believe this garbage, even if it’s true , then this quote to express my level of caring. 

 

For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled. - Hunter S. Thompson.

[Powderfinger]

17 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Let me preface this by stating the obvious; Duff is full of shit. This alleged rape is in no way proven however. But of course GNR were dodgy, the whole environment was dodgy and I sincerely hope this didn't happen, my disappointment and disgust as a fan being the least of the reasons. Rape or mistreatment etc of young girls or anyone for that matter is very, very wrong and unacceptable.

That being said, I find the virtue signalling and audacity demonstrated in this thread very sad and amusing. Someone on this forum(I'll let you figure out who for yourself) claimed I wanted to molest her(keep in mind I never met her let alone even know what she looks like) and went around claiming I was a sexist, misogynist and an endorser of rape - for reasons like my refusal to accept ridiculous crazy feminist claims like "Speaking very conservatively, well over 1/3 of all females on the planet are raped."

Still no apology to say the least.

So when I see guys saying things like "BELIEVE ALL WOMEN! I've slept with MANY women in my day and have nothing to worry about because I'm such a good guy. There's nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide!" I can't help but be astounded they're not aware that crazy 'people' exist and some of them happen to be female.

Sanity is important. Innocence until proven guilt is important. Due process is important. Intelligence is important. These things and others are vital and without them we descend into immense stupidity and injustice and actually harm the very worthwhile endeavor of helping REAL victims.

Sanity is important. It helps to know something about the people you sleep with. That way you can avoid crazy people. There’s the choice to not sleep with someone you think is capable of accusing you in the wrong. I have no fear because I’ve avoided crazies. It’s not hard to figure out.

[Powderfinger]

1 minute ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Are you actually fucking serious? The fact that you and any of the others fucks around here who think its rape have stuck around to debate it shows you don’t care at all. If I felt these guys wronged her I’d be out with no notice. I wouldn’t be hanging around and claiming some dubious moral high ground. That 15 year old girl probably did all kinds crazy shit during that period and one incident above all gets attention because it relates to one of the biggest bands of all time. I’m almost certain that girl has done plenty of fucked up shit. And why the fuck was she there? Pffffftttttt. And, for most of human history marriage after a women’s first period was normal. That was consider the threshold into adulthood, so save me the speech about this shit on a fucking Guns N‘ Roses forum. Jeez. If you believe then leave this forum, but can’t because your addicted to shit talking. And, while I don’t believe this garbage, even if it’s true , then this quote to express my level of caring. 

 

For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled. - Hunter S. Thompson.

Why was she there........... She did all kinds of crazy shit....... 

So a woman in this position should have to run the risk of getting tossed out of a house naked or raped? Would those things you’ve said be sufficient if the same happened to you? Why were you there. People are entitled to do what they like without the threat of sexual violence. 

Man you’re ignorant. 

[The Holographic Universe]

Just now, Powderfinger said:

Why was she there........... She did all kinds of crazy shit....... 

So a woman in this position should have to run the risk of getting tossed out of a house naked or raped? Would those things you’ve said be sufficient if the same happened to you? Why were you there. People are entitled to do what they like without the threat of sexual violence. 

Man you’re ignorant. 

You may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself in another part of the world
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife
You may ask yourself, "Well, how did I get here?"

Letting the days go by, let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by, water flowing underground
Into the blue again, after the money's gone
Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground

[Powderfinger]

2 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Sure. But I have never and would never sleep with them and stated they're from the forum and I do not even know them. But yes lesson learned, do not wear your heart on your sleeve and be very cautious because there are crazies.

I’ve had female stalkers at work, really insane women. Writing love poems and making cards, thinking they’re in a relationship within me. But there are ways to protect yourself too. Document that shit. As long as there’s people there will be loonies, male and female. 

1 minute ago, The Holographic Universe said:

You may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself in another part of the world
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
You may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife
You may ask yourself, "Well, how did I get here?"

Letting the days go by, let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by, water flowing underground
Into the blue again, after the money's gone
Once in a lifetime, water flowing underground

A talking head.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Powderfinger

[The Holographic Universe]

Just now, Powderfinger said:

Why was she there........... She did all kinds of crazy shit....... 

So a woman in this position should have to run the risk of getting tossed out of a house naked or raped? Would those things you’ve said be sufficient if the same happened to you? Why were you there. People are entitled to do what they like without the threat of sexual violence. 

Man you’re ignorant. 

Yeah, I’m ignorant. I’m on the Internet pretending to give a shit about something I’ll forget next week, and and never give a second thought to, while also telling the Internet I fuck all kinds of women except for the crazies because I avoid them at all cost. Yup, I fucking ignorant all right. 

[Powderfinger]

Just now, The Holographic Universe said:

Yeah, I’m ignorant. I’m on the Internet pretending to give a shit about something I’ll forget next week, and and never give a second thought to, while also telling the Internet I fuck all kinds of women except for the crazies because I avoid them at all cost. Yup, I fucking ignorant all right. 

Cmon, dude. It’s a topic that’s important now and had been and will be. Any discourse that brings out an ignoramus like you is worth having. We need to know people like you exist. We know we have to keep trying. 

 

 You still never answered the original question. 

And lots of people fuck a lot. I doubt you. But lots of women too!! Imagine!! Sex lives!!

[The Holographic Universe]

2 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

Cmon, dude. It’s a topic that’s important now and had been and will be. Any discourse that brings out an ignoramus like you is worth having. We need to know people like you exist. We know we have to keep trying. 

 

 You still never answered the original question. 

And lots of people fuck a lot. I doubt you. But lots of women too!! Imagine!! Sex lives!!

Hahahaha. People like me, huh? Listen, I don’t know you and you don’t know me. You’re making assumptions now. Debate can be healthy and so can conflict if resolutions are reached. This is primarily a GNR forum. Jimmy Page is on record for preying on 14 year old girls man. Let’s all just not listen to Led Zeppelin. 

[Powderfinger]

26 minutes ago, The Holographic Universe said:

Hahahaha. People like me, huh? Listen, I don’t know you and you don’t know me. You’re making assumptions now. Debate can be healthy and so can conflict if resolutions are reached. This is primarily a GNR forum. Jimmy Page is on record for preying on 14 year old girls man. Let’s all just not listen to Led Zeppelin. 

I actually don’t, partly for that reason. I go see the stones now, but genuinely wouldn’t if Wyman was there. I was never a Jackson fan, but I don’t think I could buy his music or support his art IF, those allegations were true. 

Youre right, I don’t know you and I’m sure you’re a bang on dude, but I just don’t like an on the fence in this area.

IF it happened, I’m not saying it did, this whole debate has been hypothetical, But we can still say what we may think about the behaviour with that lens. 

I don’t think there’s a place on the fence. Peace out after that. 

[The Holographic Universe]

4 minutes ago, Powderfinger said:

I actually don’t, partly for that reason. I go see the stones now, but genuinely wouldn’t if Wyman was there. I was never a Jackson fan, but I don’t think I could buy his music or support his art IF, those allegations were true. 

Youre right, I don’t know you and I’m sure you’re a bang on dude, but I just don’t like an on the fence in this area.

IF it happened, I’m not saying it did, this whole debate has been hypothetical, But we can still say what we may think about the behaviour with that lens. 

I don’t think there’s a place on the fence. Peace out after that. 

The story gave me pause. It did. I looked into more and what i discovered did not lead to believe there was a victim. If there was a victim I do not know how I would respond. There is a credible tale of Axl raping a penthouse model and apologizing afterwards. That recount gave me pause. But, with Axl, I separate the Artist from his life. Axl has been a huge influence for me in many positive ways. For example I Became a huge U2 fan because of Axl. I’ve since seen U2 thirty-three times live and that has hugely influenced me as a human being.  So, I’m not arguing with you or your POV, but Axl/GNR has been, i believe, a “Net positive”, for humanity. I believe GNR has facilitated a lot of healing on this Earth. 

[Draguns]

6 hours ago, killuridols said:

I say few cases because they ARE few cases. You can't say that the amount of false accusations comes even close to the amount of real ones.

Women who have been sexually assaulted or raped for real usually have to deal with the flaws and coldness of the judicial system.

Aside from having to deal with the threats of the perpetrator and the society in general, always blaming the victim for having wore this or that, for being in the wrong place, for not defending herself, etc etc.

You know of ONE woman who did it... and how many are truly abused and raped daily in your country? Do you know those statistics?

I'm not saying it can't happen. It can and it does, but I dont see how this is massive or serious enough to discourage the #metoo movement.

Besides, I really doubt someone can get away with false rape accusations. With a serious investigation, truth always comes out.

----

Edit: watch out what they are telling you in the previous post ^. Some major details are missing from that story. 

What do you mean by: "watch out what they are telling you in the previous post ^. Some major details are missing from that story."  I was never involved with this woman in an intimate way if that's what you mean. We came close but things never progressed since I knew that she had mental health issues and wasn't taking care of it.

If you think that you can't get away with false rape accusations or  false accusations then you are sadly mistaken. It has occurred. History has proven this in the U.S.   In this situation, she got away with this and  some other things that she did due to her father.  

Additionally, if I was ever falsely accused then I would just want to clear my name and not pursue it any further. A false accusation  that has been proven to be false can still hurt you.

A lot of things are not accurately reported. The U.S. government does not report the correct amount of those that are unemployed. There's actually more people unemployed than what gets reported. This has occurred for years. There are other things as well that do not get reported. 

I wish that the women who are sexually assaulted or raped get justice in the court system. I hope more women come out when it happens. Ditto with men that get sexually assaulted.   I also hope that women who are sexually harassed get justice. With that that being said, you can't just say a few cases of false accusations. By doing that, you are undermining the issue. 

[yourcrazy]

I totally agree with Raz.  I don’t need Duff or Axl to give any political opinions (or any other celebrity). It’s actually pretty ridiculous.  These guys were far from being outstanding citizens or role models.  They are so far removed from the average working class tax payer that nothing they say should be given any thought.  

[killuridols]

6 hours ago, The Holographic Universe said:

And, for most of human history marriage after a women’s first period was normal. That was consider the threshold into adulthood, so save me the speech about this shit on a fucking Guns N‘ Roses forum.

Seriously....

[Popcorn crew]

I just wanna say if todays mind et was back than, GNR will never be popular.

Human evolution is crazy. In the past we had kings marrying 15,16 years old girls and it was normal back to the early years of 20-th century.  And today we had this generation like I am Jedi warrior please address me like one and you shouldn't look me in the eyes because Jedi doesn't like it and it is against law and if I want I could get people marching for Jedi rights and TV stations will be all over the news how Jedi rights are at risk. 

Dont know anymore if is it ok to eat a apple or some activitist will jump on me. People is now heading to the another extremes. 

Ps

Rape is a rape and we all know a difference. But in showbis who knows actually? 

[Jordan Rose]

On 7/2/2019 at 1:42 AM, Azifwekare said:

I'll admit, various things around this story don't add up for me. However, did you read the story killuridols linked to in her post? If it turns out to be true, that would be a horrific thing to happen to somebody. And even if this particular story isn't true, you may be shocked to learn that that kind of thing does indeed happen to so many people.

So, with that in mind, I must ask you two questions. Firstly, do you think what was described is an acceptable thing to do to someone? Secondly, is there a valid reason we should be made aware of as to why someone who would do something like that shouldn't be called out and held accountable?

Hopefully, thinking about that may help you understand the need for this "me 2 bullshit".

Firstly: you already know the answer to that question. My issue is with the hypocrisy of this twat who wrote one thing in his book and is now trying to score social points by saying something completely different. 

Secondly: I'm much less interested in holding Axl, Slash and Duff accountable in 2019 for shit that would have warranted jailtime 30+ years ago when there's no reason to think that anything like that has happened in over 30 years and that they stopped taking drugs, grew up and realised that behaviour was awful.......much less interested than holding accountable people like Bill Clinton who visited Epstein's Lolita Island countless times on his private jet without his security detail whilst President and Hillary Clinton who has been surrounded by both convicted pedophiles; friends with people who have social media accounts drenched in pedosexual imagery and jokes; convicted pedo Anthony Weiner had five folders on his laptop referencing Hillary Clinton and Foundation/Crimes Against Children whilst the FBI released a file stating the laptop contained child porn; taken campaign contributions from people with pedophillic artwork in their homes; raised millions for Haiti through the Clinton Foundation, built 6 houses and fucked off; helped Laura Loomer escape jail for trafficking children out of Haiti then got her a job under a different name with Amber Alerts in America; had fundraisers and spirit cooking dinners with satanic freaks like Marina Abramovich and James Alefantis.....

I'd wager Axl hasn't laid a finger on a woman in nearly three decades. All of this me too stuff aimed at celebrities for things they may have done decades ago is a smokescreen diverting from the child trafficking and pedophilia which is rife within the upper echelons of Hollywood and politics. 

[Latx]

I HATE  that the site has a limit on reaction clicks, but that is  how it works, so ok.

 I  want to quote back  people, that it would take up too much space.

I want to list everyone's name  in reference, too many names. Some things....

Raz letter  was  going good until the Trump mention.

Reminiscing here at  55 over the 1980s...music I liked and stuff.

Duff needs to Shut The Fukc up.  I have to posts 2 post

I GET IT!!  He is so happy, proud and  confident of himself and his wife, at  peace and in love  with his  life, his wife, his daughters, being a  right husband and example  of a real man  for his daughters, living and loving life  where he was almost dying over 30 years ago ( pancreas thing), clean and sober for decades, multimillionaire, living his dream job of chance and luck and enjoying  it , becoming financially astute decades ago ,  his book and his wife is an author, daughters modeling career and  the other daughter,  knockout wife the rest  of the  guys  cannot  compare, longest  standing  marriage-relationship the others donot have, Seattle newspaper column Seattle  Seahawks  games and probably friends with QB Russell and Ciara , being a name in Seattle and  now to add to his tens of millions, his  4-5 year tour grossing  hundreds of millions and his personal take might  be  over 100 million when  it  finally  ends, getting his band  (Axl, Slash) back together ...the other 2 people  are  not  friends of his or matter or  people he likes or wants to associate with...ok cool

I GET IT!! Ain't nothing wrong  with  ANY of  ALL  of THAT!! GOOD GREAT!!!!

Duff has diarrhea of the lips.  he is too proud of himself. Character flaws. his shyt don't sink, so he  thinks.

Don't you know people  like that who get  high up the ladder and  look down  on others  (family, friends), and  these" high  up  now types" often  like to rewrite  or forget their not  so good  past?  Selective memory. I do.

THat is  Duff's  life, personality.