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Hard School FULL LEAK Discussion **NO LINKS**7 Day Suspension For Asking For Links**


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2 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

What does my sig say? I can’t remember, and I’m on mobile with no access to a desktop at the moment.

-But Mein Axl, this could finally give fans a chance to hear unreleased songs like Atlas!

-FUCK ATLAS! MY SILKWORMS MIXES ARE AT STAKE!

 

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I would have thought this went without saying, but PM'ing an admin to ask for links will also get you a 7 day suspension.... 

Out of curiosity, I searched into a body of newspapers for examples of use of "hard-school" in context other than the literal one (i.e. about school) or the obvious figurative one as in "learning in t

Just now, 2020_Intensions said:

-But Mein Axl, this could finally give fans a chance to hear unreleased songs like Atlas!

-FUCK ATLAS! MY SILKWORMS MIXES ARE AT STAKE!

 

Hahaha I’m surprised I forgot I made that my sig! Thanks for the fun reminder!

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1 minute ago, RONIN said:

If this song is in any way indicative of the material Axl has in reserve, then Duff and Slash will have to work miracles. It's starting to become clearer and clearer that Axl really didn't have much left in the tank creatively post-'93 - and by not communicating with either the press or fans, the mystery and legend of Chinese Democracy grew far bigger than what it really was - most likely, the CD project is a collection of mediocre half-finished demos with millions of dollars worth of production tacked on to cover up their lack of substance. I'd venture a guess that the best stuff Nu Guns had was already released in '08. 

Bob Ezrin was right.

How do you figure? I still strongly believe Axl saved "Big Guns" for a follow up & third release ...

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I seriously think the notion of Axl having any "big guns" should be put to rest. Yes - as a fan, I do think the man is sitting on a lot of unfinished material in various stages. Some of it is probably pretty darn good, or at the very least interesting. I don't think he is in possession of anything that will bring world peace, or save the world in any way. 

Guns N' Roses are a nostalgia act. Like Metallica, like Bon Jovi, like Van Halen, KISS, Motley Crue, etc, etc, etc, etc... they can release a mediocre, or pretty solid rock record, that few people will genuinely care about, but as long as they're touring with a semi-respectable representation of their classic lineup under that banner, there is a lot of money to be made touring, and touring alone.

I hope to one day hear a treasure trove of unreleased material, but I'm not expecting much aside from "heh, that's pretty good," or "those lyrics are pretty solid." 

The myth of Axl Rose having any groundbreaking material should have ended with Chinese Democracy. He released a good album. No more, no less. 


 

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7 minutes ago, bdinan said:

I seriously think the notion of Axl having any "big guns" should be put to rest. Yes - as a fan, I do think the man is sitting on a lot of unfinished material in various stages. Some of it is probably pretty darn good, or at the very least interesting. I don't think he is in possession of anything that will bring world peace, or save the world in any way. 

Guns N' Roses are a nostalgia act. Like Metallica, like Bon Jovi, like Van Halen, KISS, Motley Crue, etc, etc, etc, etc... they can release a mediocre, or pretty solid rock record, that few people will genuinely care about, but as long as they're touring with a semi-respectable representation of their classic lineup under that banner, there is a lot of money to be made touring, and touring alone.

I hope to one day hear a treasure trove of unreleased material, but I'm not expecting much aside from "heh, that's pretty good," or "those lyrics are pretty solid." 

The myth of Axl Rose having any groundbreaking material should have ended with Chinese Democracy. He released a good album. No more, no less. 


 

What I think of "Big Guns" aren't world-changing like you described, simply epic songs on the level of TWAT, Prostitute ... I truly don't believe the best of those 10 years are all on the '08 release ...

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Just now, 2020_Intensions said:

What I think of "Big Guns" aren't world-changing like you described, simply epic songs on the level of TWAT, Prostitute 

Possibly; there's a certain mythology behind that era of songs named Atlas Shrugged, The General - which are probably the two "grails," that people have been after for a while. I have no doubt they are good, possibly great songs. I just don't lose sleep over it anymore lol.

There was a time (no pun intended, lol) where this stuff used to get my geeked. Those days are over. 

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2 minutes ago, bdinan said:

Possibly; there's a certain mythology behind that era of songs named Atlas Shrugged, The General - which are probably the two "grails," that people have been after for a while. I have no doubt they are good, possibly great songs. I just don't lose sleep over it anymore lol.

There was a time (no pun intended, lol) where this stuff used to get my geeked. Those days are over. 

I'm a lot younger than most of the members here and have only been following the band for so long so I still lose sleep over it !! Lol 

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28 minutes ago, bdinan said:

Years ago it was fun and nerve wracking all at the same time. The era between 99-06 was a lot of fun in a lot of ways. I was also 17-24 back then. Right now, I'm gonna be 37 in a month. Pretty much the same age Axl came out of hiding. Now I am learning why he was such a bitter, cantankerous old fuck back then.

 

Yeah, by then he was nothing like the sunny, unreserved, easy to work with, people-lovin' kinda guy he was known to be in the late eighties and early nineties.

Edited by El Nono Pololo
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12 hours ago, AliceJ said:

Back in the day it (the 16-sec leak) was called "No Love Remains" on some torrent with a few different CD leaks so that's why I'll always think of it as.

No Love Remains would fit best to the lyrics, definitely more than Jackie Chan (wtf?), Checkmate, or Hard School, although HS isn't too bad. 

Edit: The song's grown on me, and I agree that it absolutely could have replaced certain tunes on ChD.

Edited by jamillos
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On 8/25/2019 at 7:00 AM, username said:

Fucking awesome. I stand by my claim - had this been released in 2000 it'd been HUGE. 

Agreed.  Who ever decided not to release the supposedly 99/2000 '2000 intentions' album, were idiots and didn't know what they were doing............Hardschool is hot and would be been perfect alongside OMG and the other '99' demos we have.

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5 hours ago, RONIN said:

If this song is in any way indicative of the material Axl has in reserve, then Duff and Slash will have to work miracles. It's starting to become clearer and clearer that Axl really didn't have much left in the tank creatively post-'93 - and by not communicating with either the press or fans, the mystery and legend of Chinese Democracy grew far bigger than what it really was - most likely, the CD project is a collection of mediocre half-finished demos with millions of dollars worth of production tacked on to cover up their lack of substance. I'd venture a guess that the best stuff Nu Guns had was already released in '08. 

Bob Ezrin was right.

I think evaluating the whole possible unreleased catalogue just on the basis of one old demo and a cell phone snippet could hardly be conclusive or even fair. If Axl said in 08 there could be another record in a year or so, I have no reason not to believe it, and I doubt he would have released just some scrap drawer stuff left from ChD sessions. There must be at least one other record of goodies, and probably more.

This song, for example, is the kicker the album was missing. With some work done, it could have easily replaced one of several songs I can think of.

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1 hour ago, jimisbatman said:

Agreed.  Who ever decided not to release the supposedly 99/2000 '2000 intentions' album, were idiots and didn't know what they were doing............Hardschool is hot and would be been perfect alongside OMG and the other '99' demos we have.

It seems like Axl had a good album ready to go just 2 or 3 years after he seriously started working on it. (1997)

Maybe it was a combination of his own insecurities and just his instinct to improve it like he wanted to do with UYI at the time and the record company's greed (maybe they actually didn't think it was good enough and/or wanted a hit single to sell more copies) or they were just spinning their wheels cause they wanted a reunion to take place.

Then you have people like Ezrin and RTB that fucked shit up even more probably. And wasn't it Jimmy Iovine that told Axl to release Oh My God as a soundtrack? the reception of it didn't help I imagine but it showed Axl was excited about the tune and wanted to release it.

But if they said to him in 1999: "sounds fuckin' great, let's mix it and release it asap!" would Axl have done it? shit's crazy.

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51 minutes ago, Creed said:

The whole album breaks every rule Axl set before. He wanted a NIN type Album. And the fact is, it doesn't sound like NIN at all...He wanted to work with Brian May. He did and edited him out.

What are these rules that Axl set that he broke with CD? When has Axl said that he wants to do a NIN type GNR album? He liked NIN and wanted to work with Trent Reznor at one point. But when has he said that he wants to do a NIN type GNR album? CD doesn't sound like NIN because it wasn't supposed to. He wanted to work with Brian May, but since when was it some kind of a RULE that the album must include Brian May? He wanted to work with many people that aren't included on the final album. Wanting to work with somebody doesn't automatically mean that you must include them on the next album or you're breaking some kind of a rule.

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1 hour ago, Creed said:

Nah. Axl spent 14,000,000$+ on this album. The result is a concept album with no hit single. I always thought that CD will sound somehow like George Michaels 'Freeeek'. Just with electric guitars. 

GnR fans outside the US were definately not ready for CD. And the music producers for CD were also like 'WTF? Sorry, its not good enough. You can do better, Axl'. Compared to AFD and UYI, CD is crap. 

As a concept album its fine and has alot of interesting ideas for musicians. It should have been released as a solo record. an Axl Rose triple debute album. 

when they didnt release NR and Don't Cry on AFD the argumentation was plausible. Both were big guns and didnt fit on AFD. On CD we have balads like Street of Dreams and stuff like Shacklers. The whole album breaks every rule Axl set before. He wanted a NIN type Album. And the fact is, it doesn't sound like NIN at all...He wanted to work with Brian May. He did and edited him out.

The whole album is like: So what was your fucking point?

Well, the version of the album that got released included songs that maybe weren't intended to be on the same album originally. If the process was better supported by the record company or Axl would have been more confident I can see how he could have executed the plan he talked about: at least 2 albums of 2 distinct different styles.

The first one more guitar oriented and the second one more experimental. Instead we got Shackler's, Sorry, and Better with This I Love on the same album. An album that had a little bit of everything like you get a few tunes that represent each musical goal instead of a double album or a trilogy that could have probably been a much better representation of what Axl initially set out to accomplish.

I don't really see it as a concept album and it is my opinion that Twat, Better, and Catcher were the big guns that got released. The editing out of Brian May is interesting because I remember Axl said he was surprised fans that heard the Catcher leak mostly didn't like May's work on it or at least were less than excited about it. My guess is he decided to replace it with Bumble's work because of the poor reception of it online.

If that's true and that was enough for him to replace it, I imagine Ezrin's review of what Axl had at the time and the record company's opinion that it could be better was very detrimental to the whole process so it took too much time, band members came and went and in the mean time Axl kept adding more input by different people so it got diluted in a way and naturally became a different album in the end. The leaks could have also been a factor in deciding which tracks to release.

I think Axl tried to reflect the musical vision of 2 or 3 albums in one and that's problematic for many different reasons. I believe it's only a matter of time until the 1999 version of Chinese will leak and we'll get to have kinda like 2 versions of it eventually.

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4 hours ago, jimisbatman said:

Agreed.  Who ever decided not to release the supposedly 99/2000 '2000 intentions' album, were idiots and didn't know what they were doing............Hardschool is hot and would be been perfect alongside OMG and the other '99' demos we have.

I reckon the producers axl used at the time....i put my money on bob ezrin or jimmy lovinne. Bob i beleive told axl to remix the whole album because there wasnt a radio single. Also i think axl agreed in order to satisfy Universal.

I know axl used roy thomas baker, but he was used for the complete first batch of songs axl presented to the record company with.

Edited by Sydney Fan
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12 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

I reckon the producers axl used at the time....i put my money on bob ezrin or jimmy lovinne. Bob i beleive told axl to remix the whole album because there wasnt a radio single. Also i think axl agreed in order to satisfy Universal.

I think Bob Ezrin told Axl he only had 2 or 3 tunes which were good enough and that he thought Axl was capable of more and needed to go back to the drawing board, write more songs. Axl said no, that he thought the album was good enough as is and they were going to mix it but then for some reason he did exactly what Ezrin advised him to do.

Edited by Rovim
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3 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think Bob Ezrin told Axl he only had 2 or 3 tunes which were good enough and that he thought Axl was capable of more and needed to go back to the drawing board, write more songs. Axl said no, that he thought the album was good enough as is and they were going to mix it but then for some reason he did exactly what Ezrin advised him to do.

I think your right. 

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6 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think Bob Ezrin told Axl he only had 2 or 3 tunes which were good enough and that he thought Axl was capable of more and needed to go back to the drawing board, write more songs. Axl said no, that he thought the album was good enough as is and they were going to mix it but then for some reason he did exactly what Ezrin advised him to do.

The Wall is probably my favorite piece of art ever so it pains me to say this, but fuck Bob Ezrin. Dude was so wrong about the tracks, at least from what we've heard. 

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17 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

I reckon the producers axl used at the time....i put my money on bob ezrin or jimmy lovinne. Bob i beleive told axl to remix the whole album because there wasnt a radio single. Also i think axl agreed in order to satisfy Universal.

I know axl used roy thomas baker, but he was used for the complete first batch of songs axl presented to the record company with.

Didn't tommy say RTB had them re-record everything? There must be loads of versions of every song.

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