MYGNRFORUM YouTube Policy

[downzy]

After much listening to fellow members and discussions amongst the Mod staff concerning the recent policy changes around posting links to unlicensed content, we've decided that the outline provided below is really the only course of action.

To begin, the forum will not create a private or separate area for members to post YouTube links.

This option actually creates more problems than it solves.

First, it isn't full proof and the deadbeats responsible for this nonsense would likely access it at some point.  The mod staff do a great job of cracking down on alt accounts by and large, but we're not perfect.  It would only be a matter of time before the GNR deplorables that have terrorized the GNR fan community for over a decade would breach the walls and bring the section down.  

Second, the creation and allowance of a private section creates a liability issue for myself as owner of the forum and for our current hosting provider.  Currently we cannot be charged or found liable for links or content if we demonstrate that best efforts are made to ensure it doesn't appear on the forum.  Someone posting a link to unlicensed content on here doesn't necessarily expose myself or the forum to civil legal action or liability since we are merely required to show that reasonable efforts were taken to remove the post within a reasonable amount of time.  

Establishing a separate section of this forum with the sole purpose to circumvent the DMCA exposes the forum, the host provider, and myself to legal risk.  Quite simply, a private section shows intent to evade copyright violations.  

Our hosting provider, if they discovered that our forum was structured to enable our members to post links to unlicensed materials, would surely drop us as a client.  And while I see it as extremely unlikely, it could potentially open myself up to civil liability should the day GNR wanted to come after me personally (GNR management has already expressed to me in writing that our allowance for the discussion of the recent leaks put us in the same legal grounds as those who distributed those leaks).  

Some of you might want to "fight the power," but that's easy to say when it's not your potential financial survival at stake.  As much as I would hate having to remove links to videos of taken by fans at GNR concerts, it's not worth jeopardizing the longevity of the forum or my own financial well being.  The risk certainly isn't worth it over a band like Guns N' Roses, who have, by an large, become nothing more than business that prioritizes money making opportunities above all else.  I'll repeat: the main priority with GNR these days is to make money.  It's become my impression that concerns about the fans or music in general are a distant priority, if even at priority at all.

So where does that leave us?  Pretty much where we started last week.

We will not allow direct posting of unlicensed content on this forum.  We will no longer allow posts that link to unlicensed content.  

What we well allow, until told otherwise, is keywords by which people, with a reasonable amount of intelligence, can used to discover the content themselves.  We ask that posters refrain from naming the source or platform when providing keywords that describes the content in question, but I think anyone with some level of familiarity with various video sharing platforms can figure out where to search using the keywords described.  

We get it: it's incredibly annoying, frustrating and disappointing, but it's the best of the bad options at this point.  

As we saw with the leaks, a tremendous amount of discussion is still possible on this forum without having access to it via the forum.  

At the end of the day, it wasn't YouTube videos that built this forum (YouTube didn't even exist when this forum first started).  It was the community of passionate GNR fans who wanted a place to discuss anything related to the band and the music.  The forum will continue to provide a platform where fans can learn, discuss and debate any topic that comes to mind.  If this forum needs YouTube videos to survive then it's probably not worth saving at this point.  

Again, we apologize that it has come to this but there's not much more we can do or say on this matter.  GNR seems to be on the forefront of having some real pieces of shit as fans.  As much as I feel sorry for the community as whole who find themselves continually and repeatedly disappointed from the same old bullshit, I also feel sorry that there are people out there who have so little in their lives that taking away joy from others is the only thing that gives them purpose.  How little in one's life does one have to have to make taking down fan videos and harassing online communities like ours a priority in their own lives?  It really is sad that such sad little people exist.  But that's the world we live in unfortunately.  

I do agree with many that it's a shame that GNR management doesn't feel compelled to do much or communicate their position on the matter.  But understand that even though we're all dealing with it, the problem is larger than GNR and what they are likely able to do help fix it.  The system that manages content rights and rights holders is severely broken.  Until such time when anonymous losers can't lodge a copyright complaint, that only copyright claims can be filed and acted upon by the rights holders, there's not much we or the band can do. 

We're going to pin this discussion in the D&N section so that it can be seen as many members and visitors as possible.  Feel free to discuss below. 

[Coma16]

"Fuck GNR" - Bumblefoot

[Flake]

"I'll repeat: the main priority with GNR these days is to make money.  It's become my impression that concerns about the fans or music in general are a distant priority, if even at priority at all."

 

so you think there'll be no new music?

[RussTCB]

1 minute ago, Flake said:

"I'll repeat: the main priority with GNR these days is to make money.  It's become my impression that concerns about the fans or music in general are a distant priority, if even at priority at all."

 

so you think there'll be no new music?

That was your takeaway from that whole post? 

[Flake]

Kind of. 

[downzy]

38 minutes ago, Flake said:

"I'll repeat: the main priority with GNR these days is to make money.  It's become my impression that concerns about the fans or music in general are a distant priority, if even at priority at all."

 

so you think there'll be no new music?

I use to be optimistic about new music.  Now I'm not so sure.  Who really knows at this point.  Management has assured me for years that it was coming.  But enough time goes by and I start to think that truly no one, not even Axl himself, has any idea whether the stars will align to allow fans hearing new music.  And to be honest, I'm caring less and less with every year that goes by and another leg of the reunion tour gets added.  I always believed Chinese Democracy was going to come out because the financial obligation was so huge that something would have to be released.  But with the amount of money GNR has been making the last few years, there's no financial incentive for them to release anything.  

It dawned on me today that Chinese Democracy was released more than 11 years ago.  That's more than half the amount of time between The Spaghetti Incident and Chinese Democracy, which felt like an eternity for this GNR fan.  We have now had more time between Chinese Democracy's release and today than we did between Live Era and Chinese Democracy.

[GNRfanJen]

Much of this I think we all saw coming, as unfortunate as it is. What I didn’t know was that TB took it to the point of personally letting the mods know that they weren’t even okay with us TALKING about the leaks (sans links). Ya know...talking about Guns N‘ Roses...on a Guns N‘ Roses forum. 

I’m hoping, as mentioned, that as it pertains to links, users can either figure it out themselves to access them, or other posters here can help via PM or some other way. 

Just sad, really. 

[RussTCB]

18 minutes ago, GNRfanJen said:

Much of this I think we all saw coming, as unfortunate as it is. What I didn’t know was that TB took it to the point of personally letting the mods know that they weren’t even okay with us TALKING about the leaks (sans links). Ya know...talking about Guns N‘ Roses...on a Guns N‘ Roses forum. 

Couldn't agree more. I was totally stunned by that. 

[GNRfanJen]

3 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Couldn't agree more. I was totally stubbed by that. 

I am too. I really try to give TB the benefit of the doubt, I really do. But when they go out of their way to let the fans know that their spirited discussion of their favorite band is not welcome...I mean what really can you say? 

Don’t know if this was ever confirmed, or even if it can be. But did we ever find out if Axl knew about the leaks? 

[downzy]

2 minutes ago, GNRfanJen said:

But did we ever find out if Axl knew about the leaks

Yes, he knows.  

[Billly B]

11 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Couldn't agree more. I was totally stubbed by that. 

Actually did they talk about the use of likeness in the banner too? Maybe it is coming down to them having their own forum, that they 100% control. I know that this isn't the wild west that it used to be. The band needs to control their image and material. With every unauthorized distribution of unheard material, it harms the band. That was one of the major issues with Chinese Democracy.

To continue as a band, new material will need to be officially released. Even Motely Crue had to release a song or two to continue their touring. The release of Shadow Of Your Love did this briefly (even though it was old song).

Edited December 3, 2019 by Billly B

[Wagszilla]

I mean it is what it is.

But rolling MyGNRForum into Downzy, LLC. would prevent your person from being the sole subject of litigation, i.e.: Gn’R could mount a legal case (lol) and sue for damages but only the corporate entity not your own personal assets.

I would absolute love to see their case outside of C&D fearmongering. 

GNR is an embarrassment.

[RussTCB]

12 minutes ago, Billly B said:

Actually did they talk about the use of likeness in the banner too? Maybe it is coming down to them having there own forum, that they 100% control. I know that this isn't the wild west that it used to be. The band needs to control their image and material. With every unauthorized distribution of unheard material, it harms the band. That was one of the major issues with Chinese Democracy.

To continue as a band, new material will need to be officially released. Even Motely Crue had to release a song or two to continue their touring. The release of Shadow Of Your Love did this briefly (even though it was old song).

I guess I don't understand the banner question? 

And they do have their own forum, it's just that no one cares to pay to post there. Many fans tried at first, but with all things GNR, they never provided enough value, so everyone decided to stop letting GNR rip them off. 

[ZoSoRose]

10 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I guess I don't understand the banner question? 

And they do have their own forum, it's just that no one cares to pay to post there. Many fans tried at first, but with all things GNR, they never provided enough value, so everyone decided to stop letting GNR rip them off. 

That forum is practically ran by the circus freaks. They openly harass, doxx, and create and spread racist and hate speech. Fernando lets it run rampant and they are unbannable. Its pitiful

[downzy]

4 minutes ago, Wagszilla said:

I mean it is what it is.

But rolling MyGNRForum into Downzy, LLC. would prevent your person from being the sole subject of litigation, i.e.: Gn’R could mount a legal case (lol) and sue for damages but only the corporate entity not your own personal assets.

I would absolute love to see their case outside of C&D fearmongering. 

GNR is an embarrassment.

Yeah, I've thought of this, but it's not a cheap proposition.  Moreover, I don't see it necessary since we do not violate any laws or subject ourselves to any civil litigation as we currently operate.  We have zero tolerance policies with respect to distribution of copyright materials and do our very best to enforce them.  Anyone familiar with our reputation outside of this forum can reiterate how we're known for being very strict with respect to policy violations.  

[TheSeeker]

Is it only unlicensed GNR content that we're not allowed to post links to?

Like I linked to a clip of a Jackie Chan movie in the other thread when we were trying to figure out where "Hard School" originated - do you care about that?

What about other bands? Live Velvet Revolver videos? Live Slash feat. Myles Kennedy videos? Live ABBA videos?

 

Edited December 3, 2019 by downzy

[WhazUp]

I am not going to purchase any TB trinkets like the trucks or towels or $1k box sets, and instead use them on things like the new Prince 1999 box set that has 2 full disks of unreleased material, a live show, and a DVD of another live show.  

If we are not allowed to watch inconsequential random videos that help fans bond to each other and to the music, my money is better spent with bands where I know my money will be supporting the ability to give fans good stuff.  It is a shame I don't feel that way with GNR anymore

I just don't get such a violent reaction to youtube videos that neither effect their loot or do them any harm other than keeping fans interested in GNR

Edited December 3, 2019 by WhazUp

[downzy]

3 minutes ago, TheSeeker said:

Is it only unlicensed GNR content that we're not allowed to post links to?

Like I linked to a clip of a Jackie Chan movie in the other thread when we were trying to figure out where "Hard School" originated - do you care about that?

What about other bands? Live Velvet Revolver videos? Live Slash feat. Myles Kennedy videos? Live ABBA videos?

 

 

Whether it's GNR related or not, we can no longer allow links to content that wasn't provided by the rights holder.  

[RussTCB]

I edited my post earlier. I can't say with 100% certainty who was involved with the 2006 leaks. Sorry for the confusion from me

[AxlRoseCDII]

Think this is a very good statement, and I agree with the decisions made by the MyGNR team 110%. 
 

I’ve cared less and less about this band recently anyways. They don’t care about the fans one bit and have been creatively dead since the release of Chinese. It’s purely money as others have stated. The band is stagnant, nothing more than a nostalgia touring act and money making machine. I’m glad the leaks came out. I could care less if TB and Axl were shaking in their boots crying about it. Since we’ve gotten what may as well have been CDII, I’ve cared less about new music significantly. Axl and TB deserve to have every instrumental, bootleg, show, photo be leaked all over the internet in my opinion for how they treat this fanbase. Absoloutely no remorse for them.

[Powderfinger]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

 (GNR management has already expressed to me in writing that our allowance for the discussion of the recent leaks put us in the same legal grounds as those who distributed those leaks).  

Some of you might want to "fight the power," but that's easy to say when it's not your potential financial survival at stake.  As much as I would hate having to remove links to videos of taken by fans at GNR concerts, it's not worth jeopardizing the longevity of the forum or my own financial well being.  The risk certainly isn't worth it over a band like Guns N' Roses, who have, by an large, become nothing more than business that prioritizes money making opportunities above all else.  

I like two of the posters above find this bit crazy.... And how the fuck Is it illegal to discuss something that happened. That’s like a statement from ISIS...  Thou shalt not take the bands name in vain. 

I’d like to say they’ve “allowed” me fuck all. I post what I like. I didn’t even bother with any of the recent downloads. But bollocks to their response, “allowing” a discussion and that “puts (posters) on the same legal ground” as some dude who did shit I know fuck all about.

What happens if we discuss the JFK shooting, should we expect a knock from the FBI and an interview as we’re on the “same legal ground” as Oswald..... 

Absolutely with you Downzy re your position. I think you’re dealing with the response from both sides well with your post. There’s many ways a man can go down in life, Axl Rose is not one of the ways anyone should go down.....

 

[downzy]

3 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

I’ve cared less and less about this band recently anyways. They don’t care about the fans one bit and have been creatively dead since the release of Chinese. It’s purely money as others have stated. The band is stagnant, nothing more than a nostalgia touring act and money making machine. I’m glad the leaks came out. I could care less if TB and Axl were shaking in their boots crying about it. Since we’ve gotten what may as well have been CDII, I’ve cared less about new music significantly. Axl and TB deserve to have every instrumental, bootleg, show, photo be leaked all over the internet in my opinion for how they treat this fanbase. Absoloutely no remorse for them.

The area I would push back on a bit is your concluding remarks.  As much as the fans enjoyed the leaks, I also understand why GNR/TB would be upset at fans hearing music that was never meant to be heard.  I've always believed that an artist gets to decide what they want to do with their art.  If they want to bury it, that's their right.  Its existence doesn't give fans the us the right to consume it.  I do feel bad for Axl that music he never intended to release in the format that it's in was released.  Some people put their heart and souls into their work and I feel for them if they unwillingly lose agency over it.  

[downzy]

Just now, Powderfinger said:

And how the fuck Is it illegal to discuss something that happened.

It's not.  Such sentiments were from someone who clearly fails to understand the very basics of how liable and freedom of expression works.  

[Powderfinger]

Just now, downzy said:

It's not.  Such sentiments were from someone who clearly fails to understand the very basics of how liable and freedom of expression works.  

TB. No soup for you. 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

i wouldn't blame these 'fans' as the pieces of shit but primarily TB as the main deplorable shits, you know that they are behind it and fund this activity