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After much listening to fellow members and discussions amongst the Mod staff concerning the recent policy changes around posting links to unlicensed content, we've decided that the outline provided be

I've honestly been done with the band for a little over a year. There's a few users here who can attest to the fact that I've spoken to people in private for around a year now about possibly leaving t

"Fuck GNR" - Bumblefoot

8 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I agree but downzy is totally right in saying that we can't be 100% certain. 

ok, but really this is a bit too forgiving or protective to the principal culprits and their vengefulness towards this site, it is implausible to believe that a couple dimwit fans could have such authority on their own for the take downs ---- i understand GNR has deep pockets but lets be realistic 

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Just now, PatrickS77 said:

Then why don't they stop it?? If none of them is behind it/supporting it, then it should be a matter of a couple of calls to put an end to that. But the fact that they don't, but also lump people who merely talk about the leaks into the same category speaks a clear language. They want total control about what is out there and what is talked about.

Because they don't understand the value of live videos on YT. They probably also find some satisfaction knowing it bothers what they consider to be a fringe, extreme part of the fanbase that they have clinched with before. 

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12 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

GNR need to Dump Fernando and get Q Prime.

Metallica treats its fans the best out of any band I am a fan of. Other then Lynyrd Skynyrd

 

Mojo gets his power from all the middle age women who follow him.

I have a hunch that TB is doing this so they don't have another Dimebag or Lennon situation unless Mojo and Walker get sent to a mental institution we will never be rid of them.

Management takes directive from the artist. Q Prime would be no different. It’s been the same bs under every manager of GNR. 
 

The only manager to force a release in the last 25 years was fired and sued for trying to “sabatoge” the band. Irving Azoff couldn’t effectively manage this band. Q Prime would be no different 

Edited by guitarpatch
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5 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

ok, but really this is a bit too forgiving or protective to the principal culprits and their vengefulness towards this site, it is implausible to believe that a couple dimwit fans could have such authority on their own for the take downs ---- i understand GNR has deep pockets but lets be realistic 

Like I said, I totally agree. However, we have many aspects to worry about overall so that's why downzy takes the stance he does. 

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6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Because they don't understand the value of live videos on YT. They probably also find some satisfaction knowing it bothers what they consider to be a fringe, extreme part of the fanbase that they have clinched with before. 

So they agree with it and support it, which is my point.

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2 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Then why don't they stop it?? If none of them is behind it/supporting it, then it should be a matter of a couple of calls to put an end to that.

I don't think they have the ability to stop it.  It was expressed to me that they don't like what's going on, and I do believe them on that front.  It's not ideal for anyone to have what's going on to continue.

But like I said in a previous post, i don't think the motivations by those perpetrating this nonsense is to simply appease TB/GNR.  It's more about fucking over other fans and making it difficult for the community as a whole.  

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I know what is happening on a general level, but I never had it in me to go through that 100+ page thread (which now seems to be gone), so I'm not crystal clear on one thing -

Can someone tell me without any innuendos or oblique hints what is the "consensus opinion" on who is responsible for issuing these takedowns? Trolls? Someone affiliated with GNR in some way?

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3 minutes ago, downzy said:

I don't think they have the ability to stop it.  It was expressed to me that they don't like what's going on, and I do believe them on that front.  It's not ideal for anyone to have what's going on to continue.

But like I said in a previous post, i don't think the motivations by those perpetrating this nonsense is to simply appease TB/GNR.  It's more about fucking over other fans and making it difficult for the community as a whole.  

Why not?? As legal rights holder they have the ability to inform Google and Facebook, about who has the authority to claim copyright on their behalf in relation to their copyrighted material. I refuse to believe that some random fan/third party can cause this copyright stir up without the actual copyright holder having a way to put an end to that. And even if that were the case, non of you have been informed that they even tried to stop it, but failed.

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11 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

it is implausible to believe that a couple dimwit fans could have such authority on their own for the take downs

Why not?  Anyone can do it.  I won't provide the steps here but it's possible for anyone to file copyright claims against any platform.

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4 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

So they agree with it and support it, which is my point.

I don't think they support it in the sense of masterminding it or even giving tacit approval to it, but as long as they see no bad things coming out of it they have no incentives to stop it.

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1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

Why not?? As legal rights holder they have the ability to inform Google and Facebook, about who has the authority to claim copyright on their behalf in relation to their copyrighted material.

The question is do Google and Facebook care.  From what I've been told, it's extremely difficult if not impossible for rights holders to speak directly to companies like Google or Facebook.  Most of this is done through algorithms and is automated.  As far as I'm aware there aren't proper channels by which artists and rights holders can work with media platforms to ensure that copyright claims are officially sanctioned, conducted or authorized.  

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9 minutes ago, downzy said:

I don't think they have the ability to stop it.  It was expressed to me that they don't like what's going on, and I do believe them on that front.  It's not ideal for anyone to have what's going on to continue.

But like I said in a previous post, i don't think the motivations by those perpetrating this nonsense is to simply appease TB/GNR.  It's more about fucking over other fans and making it difficult for the community as a whole.  

If that really would be the case, who's to stop any lunatic to totallly disrupt any bands business on any given platform? If I would be crazy enough, I could make it my life's mission that band x doesn't make another cent through Youtube, without anyone able to stop me??? Is that what you want to say?

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think they support it in the sense of masterminding it or even giving tacit approval to it, but as long as they see no bad things coming out of it they have no incentives to stop it.

They will have to care if the rightsholder has an issue with how their copyrighted material is handled on their platform. GNR is not just anyone. It's a band that just made 500+ mio. $. I'm sure they do have some pull and weight behind their demands.

Edited by PatrickS77
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4 minutes ago, Entman said:

I know what is happening on a general level, but I never had it in me to go through that 100+ page thread (which now seems to be gone), so I'm not crystal clear on one thing -

Can someone tell me without any innuendos or oblique hints what is the "consensus opinion" on who is responsible for issuing these takedowns? Trolls? Someone affiliated with GNR in some way?

I think the consensus here is that TB is directly involved. I disagree. Apart from perhaps saying something that could be construed to be an approval of initial efforts to take down some videos, I believe they have nothing to do with what is happening now. Based on what they have told me, and I believe them. What is happening now is mostly vengeful creeps going nuts and perhaps the label taking down some videos to prepare for a release at some point in the future. In my opinion.

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9 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Why not?? As legal rights holder they have the ability to inform Google and Facebook, about who has the authority to claim copyright on their behalf in relation to their copyrighted material. I refuse to believe that some random fan/third party can cause this copyright stir up without the actual copyright holder having a way to put an end to that. And even if that were the case, non of you have been informed that they even tried to stop it, but failed.

Google/Facebook don’t have the infrastructure in place to handle such requests. Systematically that’s not how they are set up. Unless GNR/UMG wants to approve every flagged video on the platform (which is ludicrous to ask)

YouTube has to figure this stuff out and work something with major labels 

Anyone can flag videos so that Google can’t be held responsible for any content that shouldn’t be up there. Such as leaks. They’ll take down whatever gets reported and make the user prove their rights. 

Edited by guitarpatch
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Just now, cineater said:

Excuse me, I'm kind of lost.  Can we still post links to Facebook live streams?

Unfortunately, no. 

Thankfully our forum has a lot more going on than just that though. 

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59 minutes ago, downzy said:

I would be careful with the deductions you're making.  Having a wonky or dubious grasp on legal responsibility or liability doesn't necessary equate complicity in the video takedowns.

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but here is mine on the matter.  

I truly do not believe that GNR, Universal, or members of GNR management are behind the rash of video takedowns and copyright complaints.  From a financial and PR perspective it would make no sense.  

Unless things have really come off the rails, you don't ask for people to post concert videos taken on a cell phone to Instagram and other social media platforms at the same time you're coordinating or supporting nutjobs and degenerates to take those very same videos down. 

As much as anyone might take with the decisions GNR and management makes with respect to everything else, it's difficult to see or believe that this new normal is the work of, or has tacit approval of, anyone connected with GNR.  My opinion is based on what I see in front of me along with my what I've been able to discern and infer in my brief and infrequent communications with GNR management (which, at this point, are nonexistent as a result of our last communications).  

If there's any blame to be levelled towards GNR concerting this matter it should directed at how little concern or effort is publicly demonstrated about what's been going on.  

The reality is that those suspected of taking down videos through abusing the copyright system are known to members of TB.  There's a level of protection for one of them, as has been evident on GNR's official fan forum.  There was also shelter provided to one of the suspected individuals way back when GNR ran that weird paradisecity.com platform (I still have no idea what exactly that site was suppose to be about).

Undoubtedly there's a lot of smoke about this issue that GNR does nothing to help clear up.  But we have to be careful about saying that the fire is definite and unequivocal.  I might have a bit more exposure to all of this than most (and I emphasis the bit part of this statement), but even knowing what I know I still feel uncomfortable accusing TB, GNR or anyone officially connected to the band as having a hand on the wheel when it comes to all of this.  

Whatever Axl's are.  

My understanding of your first post within this thread was that TB even asked you not to discuss any YT videos at mygnrforum.com. 

Now your stating that - in your opinion- neither GNR nor the management have anything to do with the takedowns. I am confused. 

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4 minutes ago, downzy said:

The question is do Google and Facebook care.  From what I've been told, it's extremely difficult if not impossible for rights holders to speak directly to companies like Google or Facebook.  Most of this is done through algorithms and is automated.  As far as I'm aware there aren't proper channels by which artists and rights holders can work with media platforms to ensure that copyright claims are officially sanctioned, conducted or authorized.  

Again. So you want to tell me there is no override, nothing that a person over at Google or Facebook can do to prevent that from happening and really any lunatic has the free reign to disrupt the business of any band they choose.

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3 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

If that really would be the case, who's to stop any lunatic to totallly disrupt any bands business on any given platform? If I would be crazy enough, I could make it my life's mission that band x doesn't make another cent through Youtube, without anyone able to stop me??? Is that what you want to say?

Anyone at this point can use various mechanisms to pull down videos that are posted by non-rights holders.  As I said in my first post, the system is broken.

That said, you and I wouldn't be able to go after videos posted by the band or rights holders.  

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1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

They will have to care if the rightsholder has an issue with how their copyrighted material is handled on their platform. GNR is not just anyone. It's a band that just made 500+ $. I'm sure they do have some pull and weight behind their demands.

Which is exactly why I want us to try to make them understand the value of live videos on YT. Because if they came round to the fact that what is happening now is detrimental to the band, they could pull some weight to stop it. Not necessarily by talking sense to the asshats (they are motivated by their own vengeance) but by informing every platform that only copyright claims from them, or specific third parties, are official. I don't know if it would work, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. If they agreed with us that what is happening to thoroughly bad for the band, they would perhaps also be more willing to make a public statement denouncing the takedowns, which would go a long way in consoling some fans here who are really frustrated with what is happening.

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Just now, zigzagbigbag said:

My understanding of your first post within this thread was that TB even asked you not to discuss any YT videos at mygnrforum.com. 

Now your stating that - in your opinion- neither GNR nor the management have anything to do with the takedowns. I am confused. 

No, they said that stuff about allowing discussion about leaks.

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