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The "New Album" Thread - Susan McKagan says album is coming


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Just now, Voodoochild said:

What? How would I know those things? If you want to be so precise about "advance numbers", you couldn't state that the "atmosphere to facilitate a release" isn't the same either.

I'm just saying that the current situation is not an excuse to not release a GNR album. The supposed impossibility of releasing it in a physical form wouldn't be an excuse either.

Exactly. We. Don’t. Know. How can we sit here and say what they should do and why haven’t they done what this artist did, etc without knowing the facts.  

UMG is a business. So is GNR. Both parties have to agree to release music under these circumstances alongside whatever their contract stipulates. That’s if there is even music ready to be released. 

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4 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Of course:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2018/06/27/who-still-buys-cds-and-can-format-survive

Uk numbers but generally applicable for this purpose. Older age = higher chance of purchasing Physical media.

And as for the remaster success, just see the chart placings of the album and the relative success of shadow. 

 

Pearl Jams record was already set to release, the gears were in motion for a release in march.

Again there are only two types of record being released at the moment.

1. Guaranteed successes (Dua Lipa, Pearl Jam)

2. Guaranteed failures (so the label can provide the pandemic as a reason for the failure)

Both are guaranteed successes because they have relatively recent records released for comparison.

Whereas aside from the remaster all GNR's label has to go off of is CD and the Vegas DVD, both of which provide 'meh' numbers.

A new GNR record is not guaranteed sales(CD showed that), and this would realistically be the best they could ever do again in terms of sales. GNR are currently a touring machine, why risk releasing a record with unneeded risk that could damage the brand of the band and as such the touring money?

The 2018 UK sales are "generally applicable for this purpose", but the mid-2019 US sales are not? Interesting.

Pearl Jam could have postponed. Fiona Apple was advised to postpone her new record to October, but she insisted to release now. 

About Pearl Jam... "relatively recent records release" = 7 years ago? Lightning Bolt was release in 2013. 

And a new GNR record with Slash and Duff, like I already said and you also forgot to mention, is VERY different than Chinese Democracy. 

Also, how a new record is a "risk that could damage the brand of the band" for the tour? If the prospect of having a bad album (sales or quality, it doesn't matter which) is such a risk, then nobody would ever release an album again.

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26 minutes ago, James Bond said:

Before I bought my new vehicle a few years ago, I didnt trust my old clunker on a six/seven hour drive and back so I rented a car. My well intended friend brought a booklet of CDs to listen to on the drive. We quickly realized there was no CD player to be found. 😂

Ohh that sucks major!

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4 minutes ago, Muddy said:

 I logged on to the forum this morning and saw that the new album thread was ‘Hot’ . I thought for a second there was some news regarding a new release , but no just the same old bullshit of people discussing irrelevant shit in regards to an album released 12 years ago smh

Same 😂

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6 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

Exactly. We. Don’t. Know. How can we sit here and say what they should do and why haven’t they done what this artist did, etc without knowing the facts.  

UMG is a business. So is GNR. Both parties have to agree to release music under these circumstances alongside whatever their contract stipulates. That’s if there is even music ready to be released. 

I'm really not sure what is your point. I know this is a business decision. I'm actually trying to talk about market's revenues trends to back my ideas. We dont know the facts, we don't know anything about this band. Does that stop us from having discussions anywhere here in this message board?

4 minutes ago, Muddy said:

 I logged on to the forum this morning and saw that the new album thread was ‘Hot’ . I thought for a second there was some news regarding a new release , but no just the same old bullshit of people discussing irrelevant shit in regards to an album released 12 years ago smh

I wonder how many posts like this are in those 150+ pages in this thread. 

If a new album is announced, I'm sure there would be a new thread about it. 

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2 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

The 2018 UK sales are "generally applicable for this purpose", but the mid-2019 US sales are not? Interesting.

Pearl Jam could have postponed. Fiona Apple was advised to postpone her new record to October, but she insisted to release now. 

About Pearl Jam... "relatively recent records release" = 7 years ago? Lightning Bolt was release in 2013. 

And a new GNR record with Slash and Duff, like I already said and you also forgot to mention, is VERY different than Chinese Democracy. 

Also, how a new record is a "risk that could damage the brand of the band" for the tour? If the prospect of having a bad album (sales or quality, it doesn't matter which) is such a risk, then nobody would ever release an album again.

I didn't say the US figures weren't relevant. Just that they only show a certain view of the data (as these UK figures also show). It is a widely acknowledged fact that older people buy physical media in greater numbers than their younger counterparts.

Yes but Pearl Jam didn't need to postpone, they were pretty much assured album success based on their available data. While for Fiona Apple it doesn't really matter if she releases the album or not her numbers are hardly huge. 

A new GNR record with Slash would most likely do better than CD. But they have no data for that, however the remaster has probably allowed them to build an rough idea of what a new album would do and what they'd be aiming for.

And as for bad albums tainting a bands image. That's why albums get shelved and most likely why CDII was rejected by the label in 2010.

 

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23 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Wait.....your source for proof of your claim is that article?

The article states that less than half (41%) of music listeners still listen to CDs. Of that number, about half (53%) are over age 55. On top of that, well less than half of them (18%) actually buy new CDs. 

So, going by the source you're using to back up your "established" claim says that less than 20% of music listeners still buy new CDs, then about half of them that do are older than 55. 

As far as the "success" of the Appetite remaster and / or Shadow, both are debatable but streaming numbers would still turn out to be more successful than physical sales. 

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4 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Wait.....your source for proof of your claim is that article?

The article states that less than half (41%) of music listeners still listen to CDs. Of that number, about half (53%) are over age 55. On top of that, well less than half of them (18%) actually buy new CDs. 

So, going by the source you're using to back up your "established" claim says that less than 20% of music listeners still buy new CDs, then about half of them that do are older than 55. 

As far as the "success" of the Appetite remaster and / or Shadow, both are debatable but streaming numbers would still turn out to be more successful than physical sales. 

none of that stuff matters.  All other bands, including past and current members of GnR, keep releasing new music.  GnR are full of excuses that make no sense 

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1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

Wait.....your source for proof of your claim is that article?

The article states that less than half (41%) of music listeners still listen to CDs. Of that number, about half (53%) are over age 55. Then well less than half of them (18%) actually buy new CDs. 

So, going by the source you're using to back up your "established" claim says that less than 20% of music listeners still buy new CDs, then about half of them that do are older than 55. 

As far as the "success" of the Appetite remaster and / or Shadow, both are debatable but streaming numbers would still turn out to be more successful than physical sales. 

No that was just a quick google. The fact that older people buy physical media at a greater rate is just widely known and catered to by the industry. 

And as GNR's fanbase tends older we'd see larger sales of physical copies that an act that skews towards a younger fanbase. As such it makes no sense to release anything atm as you'd essentially forfeit those sales. 

No one is arguing that streaming makes up the majority of music revenue. GNR does well from it's streaming number tbh.

 

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9 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

I didn't say the US figures weren't relevant. Just that they only show a certain view of the data (as these UK figures also show). It is a widely acknowledged fact that older people buy physical media in greater numbers than their younger counterparts.

Yes but Pearl Jam didn't need to postpone, they were pretty much assured album success based on their available data. While for Fiona Apple it doesn't really matter if she releases the album or not her numbers are hardly huge. 

A new GNR record with Slash would most likely do better than CD. But they have no data for that, however the remaster has probably allowed them to build an rough idea of what a new album would do and what they'd be aiming for.

And as for bad albums tainting a bands image. That's why albums get shelved and most likely why CDII was rejected by the label in 2010.

 

 

1 minute ago, GNR_RNR said:

No that was just a quick google. The fact that older people buy physical media at a greater rate is just widely known and catered to by the industry. 

And as GNR's fanbase tends older we'd see larger sales of physical copies that an act that skews towards a younger fanbase. As such it makes no sense to release anything atm as you'd essentially forfeit those sales. 

No one is arguing that streaming makes up the majority of music revenue. GNR does well from it's streaming number tbh.

 

You keep saying "widely known" but the very same source you googled says otherwise. 

I mentioned Fiona Apple because it's an artist I love, and of course she's not as popular as GNR. But she does have influence, as her new release deserved an extended New Yorker profile and high profile coverage. In a sense, she's relevant. 

The AFD remaster doesn't matter in this context. It's like saying the Greatest Hits would guarantee that Chinese Democracy would be a success. 

We don't really know if this story about CD 2 happened, right? AFIK, this is just a rumor. And even if it's true, again, this was a totally different context - no Slash and Duff.

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4 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

No that was just a quick google. The fact that older people buy physical media at a greater rate is just widely known and catered to by the industry. 

And as GNR's fanbase tends older we'd see larger sales of physical copies that an act that skews towards a younger fanbase. As such it makes no sense to release anything atm as you'd essentially forfeit those sales. 

No one is arguing that streaming makes up the majority of music revenue. GNR does well from it's streaming number tbh.

Again, without actual sources it's not a "fact that older people buy physical media at greater rate" and its certainly not "widely known", seeing as it isn't true. 

We wouldn't just automatically see a larger number of physical sales, as already proven by the article you posted which was supposed to back your claim. The article ended up showing that older fans who purchase physical media account for an incredibly small of amount. 

And of course GNR do well with their streaming numbers because 1) most people consume music via streaming these days and 2) GNR is a very popular band.

Age and physical media have nothing to do with GN'R not releasing an album. Their continued lack of productivity and refusal to give their fans music to buy is the actual culprit. 

2 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Is that even relevant?

Yes, the fact that GNR will use any excuse to not release new music is extremely relevant to the conversation. 

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3 hours ago, WildStar said:

Good man, so do I. 

I can't see why a music fan wouldn't buy physical music. It's £10 for a lifetime of music. You could get a shit burger or 2 bad pints for that and no one would even complain. 

Yep,  made me remember. If the band released the remastered AFD on a cassette, then i think CDs and vinyl are here to stay. 

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32 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

 

You keep saying "widely known" but the very same source you googled says otherwise. 

I mentioned Fiona Apple because it's an artist I love, and of course she's not as popular as GNR. But she does have influence, as her new release deserved an extended New Yorker profile and high profile coverage. In a sense, she's relevant. 

The AFD remaster doesn't matter in this context. It's like saying the Greatest Hits would guarantee that Chinese Democracy would be a success. 

We don't really know if this story about CD 2 happened, right? AFIK, this is just a rumor. And even if it's true, again, this was a totally different context - no Slash and Duff.

No it doesn't? Did you even read it? Should also add it's CD only, so something to take into consideration.

She's relevant at her level but that not really comparable to GNR in terms of album rollout.

Of course the remaster is something to take on board, not that it gives us a concrete impression of how a new record would do, but it gives us an idea of what modern GNR would be capable of. Top 10 album, singles peaking top 5/ top 10 on rock charts. That's not to say they would do that but that would be the projected success expected by the label.

Assuming the 2010 rumour yes it's a different kettle of fish with Slash back. I could see universal shutting down a record to protect ticket sales. Many tour have been sunk by a poor accompanying album (Katy Perry and Witness springs to mind).

 

29 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Again, without actual sources it's not a "fact that older people buy physical media at greater rate" and its certainly not "widely known", seeing as it isn't true. 

We wouldn't just automatically see a larger number of physical sales, as already proven by the article you posted which was supposed to back your claim. The article ended up showing that older fans who purchase physical media account for an incredibly small of amount. 

And of course GNR do well with their streaming numbers because 1) most people consume music via streaming these days and 2) GNR is a very popular band.

Age and physical media have nothing to do with GN'R not releasing an album. Their continued lack of productivity and refusal to give their fans music to buy is the actual culprit. 

Already provided a source for this, feel free to disagree with it or provide a source to the contrary.

Going off of the RIAA report (and assuming it holds true for the majority of the world) then 20% of sales revenue can be attributed to physical sales. Why on earth would the label green light an album launch set to give up that money?

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3 hours ago, WildStar said:

Good man, so do I. 

I can't see why a music fan wouldn't buy physical music. It's £10 for a lifetime of music. You could get a shit burger or 2 bad pints for that and no one would even complain. 

Yep - a million times this. I couldn't possibly agree more.

The music in the best possible quality available, well presented, and something to keep forever...absolutely it's going to be the way I consume music. I love going through my collection and rediscovering, looking at sleeve notes, appreciating the albums for what they are etc etc. If I like something, I'm going to buy it, for so so many reasons. 

But all this is just a debate about formats.....I don't think it really has any bearing whatsoever on new GNR music. If any of it was to come it would be made available physically and digitally, like every other release that occurs. 

The issue is, as ever, that there is no new material coming. If there were ANY plans to release even one song, those plans would undoubtedly have gone ahead.....not least for the reason that some sort of campaign of promotion would already be in place that would require many different agencies, and would be virtually impossible to put a complete final and sudden halt to. 

We're all dreaming if we think the brakes have been thrown on anything by coronavirus.  

9 minutes ago, sl4yer said:

...something like GNR yoyo

You've had that already. 

Sit still and wait for your GNR flowerpot......

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15 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Already provided a source for this, feel free to disagree with it or provide a source to the contrary.

Going off of the RIAA report (and assuming it holds true for the majority of the world) then 20% of sales revenue can be attributed to physical sales. Why on earth would the label green light an album launch set to give up that money?

You said it's a "fact" that physical sales make up a large amount of music listening. You also said that the majority of GNR fans are older and older fans buy more physical media.

Your own source already proved you wrong. Here's the recap again:

 

The article states that less than half (41%) of music listeners still listen to CDs. Of that number, about half (53%) are over age 55. On top of that, well less than half of them (18%) actually buy new CDs. 

So, going by the source you're using to back up your "established" claim says that less than 20% of music listeners still buy new CDs, then about half of them that do are older than 55. 

 

So, by your own source only 1 in 5 albums are purchased on the CD format. Then 2.5 of those are purchased by someone over 55. So, as previously stated, it's not a matter of disagreeing with something, your own source proved you wrong. 

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27 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

You said it's a "fact" that physical sales make up a large amount of music listening. You also said that the majority of GNR fans are older and older fans buy more physical media.

Yes, going by the RIAA report roughly 20% of music revenue is due to physical media. GNR's fans absolutely tend older and as per the survey that means a larger chunk are open to buying physical media. Don't really know why you seem to think otherwise?

 

27 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

The article states that less than half (41%) of music listeners still listen to CDs. Of that number, about half (53%) are over age 55. On top of that, well less than half of them (18%) actually buy new CDs. 

Yes 41% of listeners use CD's. That a huge percentage.

Many GNR fans will be over 55.

And you misunderstand the 18% figure. That refers to people who frequently purchase new CD's every week.

27 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

So, going by the source you're using to back up your "established" claim says that less than 20% of music listeners still buy new CDs, then about half of them that do are older than 55. 

See above point for why you're wrong here.

27 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

So, by your own source only 1 in 5 albums are purchased on the CD format. Then 2.5 of those are purchased by someone over 55. So, as previously stated, it's not a matter of disagreeing with something, your own source proved you wrong. 

I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

As it stands GNR fans tend older and as such are more likely to purchase physical media.

From that you can assume that more than 20% of the albums revenue would be based on physical sales, again why would they green light an album rollout during a time that would essentially through away 20%+ of revenue?  

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11 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

Yes, going by the RIAA report roughly 20% of music revenue is due to physical media. GNR's fans absolutely tend older and as per the survey that means a larger chunk are open to buying physical media. Don't really know why you seem to think otherwise?

 

Yes 41% of listeners use CD's. That a huge percentage.

Many GNR fans will be over 55.

And you misunderstand the 18% figure. That refers to people who frequently purchase new CD's every week.

See above point for why you're wrong here.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

As it stands GNR fans tend older and as such are more likely to purchase physical media.

From that you can assume that more than 20% of the albums revenue would be based on physical sales, again why would they green light an album rollout during a time that would essentially through away 20%+ of revenue?  

I'm not misunderstanding anything. We're talking about people who would buy a new album. So the 18% figure is exactly the one to point out. 

Less than half of people (43%) listen to music on CD and then less than half of them (18%) buy new CDs. 

So using physical media as an excuse for GNR not to release a new album is completely invalid because that would mean they're focus on less than 10% of the overall music listening public as opposed to the other 90% 

7 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

While physical sales (CD, vinyl, tape, etc.) are not a majority of the medium by which new music is consumed, it is still considerable, even if it is indeed 15% or whatever. That's still a lot of money.

It's not a matter of it being the majority, it's a matter of it being minuscule. See the above breakdown. 

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