The "New Album" Thread . The maybe, possibly, at some point, soon, whenever, wtf Axl thread🤞

[allwaystired]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I personally haven't enjoyed the shows much since the 80s and stopped caring for anything but new original music back then. I just find the concept of complaining about an artist not being as good as they were a bit strange. It suggests that people are emotionally invested in the band's development. And I am just not there. The retort would be to claim I am not really much of a fan, but of course I like the music and I will be thrilled when I get to hear new music. 

Going back to the original question: yes, of course there are tons of stuff to be positive about GN'R right now, if you like what is happening. If you don't, that's fine too. I just don't get how people get so emotional over stuff like this. That a band gets worse is the natural progression. Just accept it and listen to other bands.

Yeah, I get all that. I mean, surely no-one expects the shows to be like the 80s/90s! 

I don't think that you're any less of a fan for not being 'emotionally invested' at all, but I think you can't really criticize people who do really care enough to be pissed off that things aren't great. Either is fine. 

Not understanding why people get emotional about their favourite band I don't really understand to be honest, especially on a fan forum. Of course people will be emotional, and personally, I like it when people are passionate about something. 

I'm way, way more positive than to say "that a band gets worse is the natural progression. Just accept it and listen to other bands." That to me is the very definition of negativity. Not to mention the fact that I fundamentally disagree with it - many of my other favourite bands have got better as they've gone on. 

In GNR world though, it seems that unless you're positive about the prospect of paying big money to see a not great performance, at the moment there just isn't too much else to highlight as positive, other than the fact they are still together, so have the potential to do something good again. 

 

[EvanG]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

 Some fans appreciate the live shows and the merch. God knows why but it takes all kinds and all that. It was the notion that one cannot possibly like GN'R anno 2021 without being mad or something, that came off as a bit blockheaded. We are all different.

That's my entire point, but apparently I'm ''trying'' to insult him already by explaining this. 

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

You think GN'Rs track record doesn't need defending or justification? 

Why on earth would I defend why a band I have no connection with has failed to release more music than they have? The idea of me defending a band is entirely alien to me. It is not MY band. It is not my job to defend their decisions.

Do I think the band ought to defend their poor productivity? No, because they don't owe us anything. There is nothing to defend. An artist is free to release as much as they want. There is no obligations to us. I would appreciate some explanations for why it is so hard for them, though, but I think I know the reasons already.

[Tom2112]

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I personally haven't enjoyed the shows much since the 80s and stopped caring for anything but new original music back then. I just find the concept of complaining about an artist not being as good as they were a bit strange. It suggests that people are emotionally invested in the band's development. And I am just not there. The retort would be to claim I am not really much of a fan, but of course I like the music and I will be thrilled when I get to hear new music. 

Going back to the original question: yes, of course there are tons of stuff to be positive about GN'R right now, if you like what is happening. If you don't, that's fine too. I just don't get how people get so emotional over stuff like this. That a band gets worse is the natural progression. Just accept it and listen to other bands.

The natural progression? Maybe for some bands, but others have had dips and recovered, some have managed to have full careers that were critically acclaimed. It all depends on the artist. 

I look at Rush who gor some dipped in the mid-late 80s, but they regained their step in the 00s and finished on an absolutely brilliant album. Metallica, a lot of people say the 90s was a dip, a lot if people also say Hardwired is a return to form. 

It is the exception, but we all love a good redemption story😄

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

I don't think that you're any less of a fan for not being 'emotionally invested' at all, but I think you can't really criticize people who do really care enough to be pissed off that things aren't great.

I can ALWAYS criticize people for continuously complaining about something as trivial as a rock band not living up to their expectations. If you don't believe me, just wait and see 

[allwaystired]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I can ALWAYS criticize people for continuously complaining about something as trivial as a rock band not living up to their expectations. If you don't believe me, just wait and see 

But why would you want to? I don;'t really understand why, if (as you say) you don't really care, it matters if people that do care are pissed off? 

You see the paradox here? Saying you don't care, about the band because you're not emotionally invested, but then getting annoyed at people for caring is a bit self-defeating! 

Edited February 24, 2021 by allwaystired

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Why on earth would I defend why a band I have no connection with has failed to release more music than they have? The idea of me defending a band is entirely alien to me. It is not MY band. It is not my job to defend their decisions.

Do I think the band ought to defend their poor productivity? No, because they don't owe us anything. There is nothing to defend. An artist is free to release as much as they want. There is no obligations to us. I would appreciate some explanations for why it is so hard for them, though, but I think I know the reasons already.

Exactly. There's no law that a band has to release x amount of records or do whatever the fans want them to do. I can understand the disappointment completely, but I don't understand coming on here every day and complaining and whining and taking stabs at a band just because they are not living up to their expectations. There's something very immature about that. Oops, am I insulting someone again now? Russ?

[RussTCB]

11 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Yes, so how exactly did I try to insult you? Come on then... tell me, I'm dying to know.

Can you not see your own post history? If not, you should ask a member of the staff to look into that for you 

[EvanG]

Just now, RussTCB said:

Can you not see your own post history? If not, you should ask a member of the staff to look into that for you 

So you can't even tell me? Haha... I figured.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Tom2112 said:

The natural progression? Maybe for some bands, but others have had dips and recovered, some have managed to have full careers that were critically acclaimed. It all depends on the artist. 

I look at Rush who gor some dipped in the mid-late 80s, but they regained their step in the 00s and finished on an absolutely brilliant album. Metallica, a lot of people say the 90s was a dip, a lot if people also say Hardwired is a return to form. 

It is the exception, but we all love a good redemption story😄

Indeed we do  I think GN'R got it when they managed to release UYIs in '91 and then - against all odds - CD in 2008. But surely we all see the direction it is heading? Don't get me wrong, I do expect more original music at some time, but I don't expect the band to ever get back to excite me as much as they did when I feel in love with the band. They might be able to continue doing passable live shows, but that's about as much as one can hope to get.

Most bands eventually die out. All bands do, actually. Some are just so popular they get to tour for longer than others despite not being as good anymore. But they are on life support. And that's fine.  All things must come to an end. I love it when people go to the shows and have a great time, though. Its fantastic! I would never criticize the band for being able to do that, still. Even if I personally don't get much excited. 

So I don't think the difference between us is in how we much, or little, we appreciate the shows. It is just that I am not bothered with it. I would have preferred if it wasn't so, but it is not like there isn't other live bands to see and it is not like my happiness stands or falls on the quality of a rock band.

[RussTCB]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

That's all fine, just accept that some people actually don't agree with you on this. Some fans appreciate the live shows and the merch. God knows why but it takes all kinds and all that. It was the notion that one cannot possibly like GN'R anno 2021 without being mad or something, that came off as a bit blockheaded. We are all different. And in general, and despite feeling myself a bit on the outside since I haven't really been emotionally invested in the band for a long time, I appreciate people who either look at the glass as half-full or go somewhere else if they don't, more than people who are just negative over and over. Both because it sets a sour mood but also because of what is suggests of themselves and how emotionally attached they are at something as insignificant as a rock band and its inevitable end times.

And I would flip that around and say that those who can't comprehend that many, many people feel the opposite need to way need to understand that other people have a different opinion. It's totally OK for people to express a negative opinion of the band, just like it's totally OK for people to express positive opinions too. 

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

But why would you want to? I don;'t really understand why, if (as you say) you don't really care, it matters if people that do care are pissed off? 

Because it sets a sour tone that results in people staying away from expressing their positive opinions?

[RussTCB]

8 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Why on earth would I defend why a band I have no connection with has failed to release more music than they have? The idea of me defending a band is entirely alien to me. It is not MY band. It is not my job to defend their decisions.

Do I think the band ought to defend their poor productivity? No, because they don't owe us anything. There is nothing to defend. An artist is free to release as much as they want. There is no obligations to us. I would appreciate some explanations for why it is so hard for them, though, but I think I know the reasons already.

Haha the old "they don't owe us anything" argument again. At no point have I said GN'R owes us anything. 

And I guess that's a difference between you and I (which is fine of course, different strokes and all that): personally I feel a very strong connection to music as an art form, enough so that I have strong opinions on the artists that create it.

[allwaystired]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Because it sets a sour tone that results in people staying away from expressing their positive opinions?

So we should all be positive about the poor shows, in case it stops people saying they like them? 

 

[RussTCB]

3 minutes ago, EvanG said:

So you can't even tell me? Haha... I figured.

I'm not going to list off your attempts to insult me because it's not worth the time to go back and find them for you. Your post history is out in the open though, so you should he able to re-read them for yourself. 

Just now, allwaystired said:

So we should all be positive about the poor shows, in case it stops people saying they like them? 

 

Apparently? Lol

[EvanG]

3 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

I'm not going to list off your attempts to insult me because it's not worth the time to go back and find them for you. Your post history is out in the open though, so you should he able to re-read them for yourself. 

Apparently? Lol

You can't find them because they're not there. The only name I called you on here was ''dude'', which was meant to be positive, and other than that I haven't said anything that isn't true. You don't have to agree with me, but don't say things that aren't true. That's not the proper way to have a discussion, Russ.

Edited February 24, 2021 by EvanG

[RussTCB]

3 minutes ago, EvanG said:

You can't find them because they're not there. The only name I called you on here was ''dude'', which was meant to be positive, and other than that I haven't said anything that isn't true. You don't have to agree with me, but don't say things that aren't true. That's not the proper way to have a discussion, Russ.

Here again, you've attempted to call me a lair and then go on to suggest that I don't know how to have a discussion. Are these not attempted insults? 

And "you don't have to agree with me" is rich coming from the person who stops by the thread just to tell everyone that they have to be positive about GN'R 

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

And I would flip that around and say that those who can't comprehend that many, many people feel the opposite need to way need to understand that other people have a different opinion. It's totally OK for people to express a negative opinion of the band, just like it's totally OK for people to express positive opinions too. 

Oh, I think we comprehend why people complain  It is not a matter of not comprehending why people are disappointed, but asking why they feel a need to so often express that negative opinion, as if they are personally insulted by a rock band not living up to their expectations. I don't see what is constructive about the n'th post about how shitty something is. It doesn't reflect well on the emotional state on whoever expresses them when what we are talking about is a mere rock band.  

10 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Haha the old "they don't owe us anything" argument again. At no point have I said GN'R owes us anything. 

And I guess that's a difference between you and I (which is fine of course, different strokes and all that): personally I feel a very strong connection to music as an art form, enough so that I have strong opinions on the artists that create it.

Oh, I don't care about artists one iota, I care about the music. It is the music that gives me an escape, the music that helps me in bad times, the music that gives me a high. Not the artists. I appreciate what they do, but that's about it. 

[EvanG]

Just now, RussTCB said:

Here again, you've attempted to call me a lair and then go on to suggest that I don't know how to have a discussion. Are these not attempted insults? 

And "you don't have to agree with me" is rich coming from the person who stops by the thread just to tell everyone that they have to be positive about GN'R 

You just refuse to react to what I actually said. If you actually bothered to read my posts you would know that I have said many times that I understand the criticism, the disappointment, the fact that people are negative, but that I don't understand why people repeat themselves over and over. 

As for calling you a liar. Wrong. You have put words in my mouth that I never said more than once. Yesterday during our conversation and today as well. I don't know why you do this. So again my advice is, stick to what is actually being said. It prevents a lot of confusion.  

[RussTCB]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Oh, I don't care about artists one iota, I care about the music. It is the music that gives me an escape, the music that helps me in bad times, the music that gives me a high. Not the artists. I appreciate what they do, but that's about it. 

Right on and that's totally fine of course. Different strokes, as I said. That's what makes the world go around. 

I love the hell out of the music GN'R has made. Where it gets to a gray area for me is where the artist has made claims about what's to come, etc. When that turns out to be untrue several times over, that's when many of us end up irritated with the artist. 

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

So we should all be positive about the poor shows, in case it stops people saying they like them? 

No, that's not what I am saying at all. It is the constant barrage of negative posts from single posters that is a bit over the top and unnecessary. This is a discussion forum and then one is allowed and encouraged to have different opinions, but when some negative people gets to set the tone and make posts that make it seem almost wrong to be positive, that sets a sour mood that might result in dissenting voices staying silent. And don't think for one second I am arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to complain, complain, complain, I am just asking them - why bother? Maybe this band isn't for you anymore? Maybe some stoicism would reflect better on yourself? Maybe find out what in life is bothering you so much you take it out on something as trivial as a band not being great anymore? 

[Rovim]

20 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

And I would flip that around and say that those who can't comprehend that many, many people feel the opposite need to way need to understand that other people have a different opinion. It's totally OK for people to express a negative opinion of the band, just like it's totally OK for people to express positive opinions too. 

there's a nice balance here of both critical and positive opinions I've always thought. Some are more invested than others so they get more frustrated with the lack of progress.

I think a rock band can be a big part of someone's life cause not every special part of life that a person can be passionate about is always of great significance in the grand scheme of things.

There are more important things than music and there is a lot of it but no other band sounds like Gn'R so other bands don't provide me with the same thrill of listening to a new Gn'R tune for example.

Other bands give me what they have to offer and it's just a different flavor so I get why for some it's just a bummer when their favorite band doesn't do much and seeing how this is a fan forum I think it's ok to sometimes express frustration that the main new Gn'R product you can buy in 2021 is Slash's pinball machine.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Rovim

[RussTCB]

1 minute ago, EvanG said:

You just refuse to react to what I actually said. If you actually bothered to read my posts you would know that I have said many times that I understand the criticism, the disappointment, the fact that people are negative, but that I don't understand why people repeat themselves over and over. 

As for calling you a liar. Wrong. You have put words in my mouth that I never said more than once. Yesterday during our conversation and today as well. I don't know why you do this. So again my advice is, stick to what is actually being said. It prevents a lot of confusion.  

You've now said I say things that aren't true in your last two posts. Is this not the definition of a liar?

For my part, there's no confusion so I'm all set. I understand if you're confused though seeing as you keep saying things, then saying you don't say them. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

I love the hell out of the music GN'R has made. Where it gets to a gray area for me is where the artist has made claims about what's to come, etc. When that turns out to be untrue several times over, that's when many of us end up irritated with the artist. 

Sure, I get that. You have every right to call an artist out over failed delivery. I am certainly not defending Axl's inability to release music or his many suggestions we would get to hear new music. I just don't get my panties in a knot over it, especially considering that I got used to it back in the 90s, and you aren't exactly a new kid on the block, either. But we have had this discussion before.

[RussTCB]

4 minutes ago, Rovim said:

there's a nice balance here of both critical and positive opinions I've always thought. Some are more invested than others so they get more frustrated with the lack of progress.

I think a rock band can be a big part of someone's life cause not every special part of life that a person can be passionate about is always of great significance in the grand scheme of things.

There are more important things than music and there is a lot of it but no other band sounds like Gn'R so other bands don't provide me with the same thrill of listening to a new Gn'R tune for example.

Other bands give me what they have to offer and it's just a different flavor so I get why for some it's just a bummer when their favorite band doesn't do much and seeing how this is a fan forum I think it's ok to sometimes express frustration that the main new Gn'R product you can buy in 2021 is Slash's pinball machine.

Totally agree with all of this. The only thing I even argue about on here anymore is when people accuse me and a few others of always being negative. I don't even the time or energy for the rest of it anymore