The "New Album" Thread . The maybe, possibly, at some point, soon, whenever, wtf Axl thread🤞

[Tom2112]

36 minutes ago, Dean said:

Woooaaah. 

Hang fire there. 01/06, I can give you! 

That said, I really did think they hit a stride in 2012. 4tus shone on Rocket Queen in particular. Musically, they were tighter than in 2010, but Axl was the difference in it being more widely appreciated in my opinion.

2014 is a stretch, I'll give you that😄 The band from 2010-2012 that was intense. 2006 was a whole other level though, having a great band AND Axl on top form... oh hell ya!!

[Sisyphus]

On 4/25/2021 at 6:35 PM, SoulMonster said:

It is what "original" means  I have never understood why this rubs so many fans the wrong way. It doesn't in any form or shame reduce the significance of the AFD lineup, it doesn't in any shape or form means that the original lineup was important or anything, it doesn't in any shape or form means that Steven. Slash and Duff weren't extremely important members of Guns N' Roses. It just means they weren't the first.

I am a hardcore AFD lineup fan. To me, that was Guns N' Roses at its best. But I can still at the same time admit that Rob Gardner played drums in Guns N' Roses before Steven did, that Ole Beich played drums before Duff did, and that Tracii Guns played lead guitar before Slash did. Steven, Duff and Slash are still awesome, just not the original band members. They can be awesome and be second. 

I get your point of view but the thing that bothers me is that Slash, Duff and Steven are denied the original Guns status. I mean it's not such a big deal. But considering the contribution of Tracii, Ole and Rob I just don't think they're deserving of being called "original" members of a band of this magnitude. Because in the grand scheme of things they're insignificant. Ole was there for a couple of weeks. The members were shuffling so much you could barely distinguish what is Rose, Hollywood Rose, LA Guns... It was one big mingle, for lack of a better word.

So those five guys called themselves Guns N' Roses in march 1985 or whatever but to me it was more like "ok, let's put you and you together and we'll see what comes of it". With Duff, Slash and Steven it bacame a band. And later on a partnership. Ole, Tracii and Rob were just a few guys that played with Axl and Izzy for a month or two. They are non-existent in the GN'R catalogue. If their roles were at least similar to the role of Bob Klose (Pink Floyd) or Pete Best (The Beatles) then they'd be at least somewhat deserving of that title.

But technically you are correct. They were the very first line-up. But they could've just as easily been called Hollywood Rose or LA Guns. Because it was just another combination albeit with a moniker that became legendary. To me they are the first draft of what eventually became Guns N' Roses. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Sisyphus

[Sweersa]

"Classic" lineup for the AFD 5 is more suitable than "Original" lineup if we are referring to the original (meaning the first) lineup of GN'R.  Tracii's name is the first in the name of the band.

[MaskingApathy]

3 hours ago, Frankfurt93 said:

Finally, do you really consider anyone apart from Axl as GNR member '93 - 2016!?!?

 No

27 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

I get your point of view but the thing that bothers me is that Slash, Duff and Steven are denied the original Guns status. I mean it's not such a big deal. But considering the contribution of Tracii, Ole and Rob I just don't think they're deserving of being called "original" members of a band of this magnitude. Because in the grand scheme of things they're insignificant. Ole was there for a couple of weeks. The members were shuffling so much you could barely distinguish what is Rose, Hollywood Rose, LA Guns... It was one big mingle, for lack of a better word.

So those five guys called themselves Guns N' Roses in march 1985 or whatever but to me it was more like "ok, let's put you and you together and we'll see what comes of it". With Duff, Slash and Steven it bacame a band. And later on a partnership. Ole, Tracii and Rob were just a few guys that played with Axl and Izzy for a month or two. They are non-existent in the GN'R catalogue. If their roles were at least similar to the role of Bob Klose (Pink Floyd) or Pete Best (The Beatles) then they'd be at least somewhat deserving of that title.

But technically you are correct. They were the very first line-up. But they could've just as easily been called Hollywood Rose or LA Guns. Because it was just another combination albeit with a moniker that became legendary. To me they are the first draft of what eventually became Guns N' Roses. 

Lots of bands back then in that scene shuffled players around, depending on who was available to play and who stuck around longer instead of moving on to the next band. I agree that Rob Gardner etc are insignificant. The only reason Steven is the "original" drummer is because he was available for the hell tour and he stuck around after that, otherwise it would've been Rob or someone else.

[Gordon Comstock]

4 hours ago, Frankfurt93 said:

Finally, do you really consider anyone apart from Axl as GNR member '93 - 2016!?!?

 

Well, either GNR is/was only 5 guys, or it's a constantly evolving band. If you count UYI and TSI? as "real GNR", you may as well count CD as GNR too whether you like the songs or not. If you consider the NITL lineup to be GNR, then why not the 02, 06 and 09 lineups? Where is the line drawn? To most people, GNR = Axl and Slash, and that's just stupid.

[Sweersa]

GN'R to me is Axl.

My GN'R fantasy is Axl with Bucket and Robin, and Brain or Josh on drums.

That's the era that got me into the band. Better, specifically hooked me in.

[SoulMonster]

52 minutes ago, Sisyphus said:

I get your point of view but the thing that bothers me is that Slash, Duff and Steven are denied the original Guns status.

Well, if you think of original as simply being the first lineup, then it hopefully won't bother you any more.

There is really no shame in not being the founders of something. As you say, Guns N' Roses was nothing before the AFD lineup came together.  They made the band great. They were the best lineup, and that is all that matters to me. So what if Slash wasn't there when Tracii and Axl came up with the name, or when Duff and Axl played the first shows. It doesn't take anything away from Slash's greatness.

But I have to disagree on what you write about there not being a clear sort of demarcation between Hollywood Rose, LA Guns and Guns N' Roses. There were. Although band members came and went between the various bands, the bands were separate entities. Guns N' Roses has a distinct starting point. And Slash and Duff and Steven were not in the band then.  

[Tom2112]

3 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Well, either GNR is/was only 5 guys, or it's a constantly evolving band. If you count UYI and TSI? as "real GNR", you may as well count CD as GNR too whether you like the songs or not. If you consider the NITL lineup to be GNR, then why not the 02, 06 and 09 lineups? Where is the line drawn? To most people, GNR = Axl and Slash, and that's just stupid.

Don't try and reason with crazy

[Euchre]

IMO This whole debate really hinges on whether a band is a name or a concept. There is no right or wrong answer IMO and it may differ from band to band what it really is.

Ie if you think of GNR as just a brand name then those guys weren’t original as technically there was a band that existed before with different members with that name

 

if like me GNR is more a concept, then they are original as the concept started in June ‘85 and ended in April 90. Other entities have existed with that name but weren’t the same.From that perspective they were original in what I define GNR as. Similarly if those 5 played under a different name I’d still consider it GNR.

 

a rose by any other name...does the label matter ?

[DTV88]

On 4/26/2021 at 1:10 AM, StayofExecution2020 said:

Still unclear how to release it.

I still can’t believe the audacity of Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, Weezer and Taylor Swift releasing new music during these unprecedented, trying times. 
 

SHAME!!!

[GnR Chris]

If Guns N' Roses doesn't drop a record right before this next tour, I don't know what to say. There is literally no excuse to not have a record done after a worldwide pandemic kept people indoors for over a year. If you can't figure it out while stuck at home for a fuckin' year, then you're never gonna figure it out.

[GnR Chris]

On 4/27/2021 at 9:14 AM, Frankfurt93 said:

 

Depends how you view first drummer.

There are bands who replaced 10 members before recording debut.

It is ok to think the way you do, ut it is not very logical.   ...or do you really think it is ok throwing around names just for the sake of it!?  

Be honest not even you heard Rob Gardner, so lets cut the BS.

In my books, the original drummer is the one who recorded debute album, his first replacement is legit, everyone else - revolving door or a replacement of a replacement.  Whichever way you want to look at it - doesn't change. As for facts, Any post '94 line up attracted way less crowds, was not on the levels of -91 -m '93 when the band ruled the worls and they played covers of '87 - '93 band.  Let's be honest, nobody 2006 - 2010 came to see CD songs, for no song off CD was on the quality level of AFD - UYI album.

For CD, there is far worse shit  that has some fan base, but that doesn't change the fact CD was EPIC train wreck.

Finally, do you really consider anyone apart from Axl as GNR member '93 - 2016!?!?

No offence...

You're making a ton of silly assumptions and trying to pass off your opinions as truth. 

I love hearing Chinese Democracy songs live as much as anything from the other records. I was chasing "There was a Time" for a long time till I finally heard it live in Chicago. And "Madagascar" is absolutely epic live.

"No offense" to you, but your justifications on who is original and who is a replacement is hilarious. The first replacement is legitimate but then if someone replaces the replacement, it's a farce. lol. OK, bud. You want to heap all this love on Matt Sorum, yet you completely disregard Dizzy, who, yes, was a member from '93 to 2016 and before and beyond. Just admit you have your favorites. It's fine. We all do. GNR always were a revolving door of musicians with one constant being Axl Rose.

Edited April 29, 2021 by GnR Chris

[MaskingApathy]

2 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

If Guns N' Roses doesn't drop a record right before this next tour, I don't know what to say. There is literally no excuse to not have a record done after a worldwide pandemic kept people indoors for over a year. If you can't figure it out while stuck at home for a fuckin' year, then you're never gonna figure it out.

Or at least a single.

[Free Bird]

2 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

You're making a ton of silly assumptions and trying to pass off your opinions as truth. 

I love hearing Chinese Democracy songs live as much as anything from the other records. I was chasing "There was a Time" for a long time till I finally heard it live in Chicago. And "Madagascar" is absolutely epic live.

"No offense" to you, but your justifications on who is original and who is a replacement is hilarious. The first replacement is legitimate but then if someone replaces the replacement, it's a farce. lol. OK, bud. You want to heap all this love on Matt Sorum, yet you completely disregard Dizzy, who, yes, was a member from '93 to 2016 and before and beyond. Just admit you have your favorites. It's fine. We all do. GNR always were a revolving door of musicians with one constant being Axl Rose.

Believing in this was probably Axl's biggest mistake out of many stupid things he did that ended up ruin one of the greatest bands in the world.

GNR in their prime wasn't just Axl. That's fact.

The new version of the band when Axl left and created his own in the mid 90s. That was probably all Axl. But that to led nowhere to many peoples opinion, including mine.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Free Bird

[19AT5]

8 minutes ago, Nesret said:

Not liking CD is understandable, matter of taste. 

But categorically hating it because Slash and Duff weren't on it, that's simply ridiculous and downright childish. There are people who are so bitter about the NuGuns-Era that they can't even admit that a solo like in TIL or Sorry is a masterpiece, just because it wasn't written and played by the infallible and holy Slash (and we've heard and seen what happens if the "God" himself takes on these songs, give me a fucking break)

Even after all these years, people still are so incredibly butthurt because of CD and it's hilarious and fascinating at once. 

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but I find the final version of CD a complete sonic mess. There are some decent moments on there for sure, but all in, the songs are just not there for me. That said, I was interested enough to give the leaks a chance whereas some of my pals just listened to the first 30 seconds and turned off! So at least I have tried! All that said, I will say I really like Sorry... but even then... what the fuck is that "I don't want to dooooo it" line all about. 

[19AT5]

Just now, Nesret said:

Haha, that line remains a mystery to me too  I totally get that the songs don't do it for you, that's completely fine. But it seems it's because of your taste and not because you're biased, since you checked out the leaks too.

Oh yeah I'm a nosey bastard! I will at least entertain the prospect that something decent was going down during the Chinese Democracy era. And to be honest, I likely went in on a positive note as I really liked Oh My God. I wanted to hear more stuff in that vein. But got served up Scraped, This I Love and Catcher In The Rye! I did really like State Of Grace from the leaks though. Decent track that one.

[SoulMonster]

9 hours ago, Euchre said:

IMO This whole debate really hinges on whether a band is a name or a concept. There is no right or wrong answer IMO and it may differ from band to band what it really is.

When we are talking about who was the original band members of Guns N' Roses, there really is a right answer, though. 

[jamillos]

Yes, the original members for those few months were Gardner, Beich etc., but most casuals have never heard of them, and the legacy stems from AfD. Both views are understandable and true, it just depends on what point of view you focus on, that's all. 

[Chuzeville]

10 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Yes, the original members for those few months were Gardner, Beich etc., but most casuals have never heard of them, and the legacy stems from AfD. Both views are understandable and true, it just depends on what point of view you focus on, that's all. 

As an art history major, I'd go with archaic/classical/hellenistic line ups.

[SoulMonster]

You have the first/original lineup, and then you have the legendary lineup that made the band famous and us into fans. Two very different things in GN'R's case.

[WhazUp]

I just call the AFD lineup the "original lineup" in casual conversation because everyone knows what we mean when we say that.  And I remember a couple of now-banned past members here always got GNR-triggered when someone called a non-Tracii Guns lineup the "original" lineup so I still do it in hopes I can piss off people that uptight about these semantics 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by WhazUp

[megaguns1982]

6 hours ago, GnR Chris said:

If Guns N' Roses doesn't drop a record right before this next tour, I don't know what to say. There is literally no excuse to not have a record done after a worldwide pandemic kept people indoors for over a year. If you can't figure it out while stuck at home for a fuckin' year, then you're never gonna figure it out.

I think you’ve nailed it with that statement but I don’t think it has anything to do with anyone but Axl.

[19AT5]

42 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

I just call the AFD lineup the "original lineup" in casual convsersation because everyone knows what we mean when we say that.  And I remember a couple of now-banned past members here always got GNR-triggered when someone called a non-Tracii Guns lineup the "original" lineup so I still do it in hopes I can piss off people that uptight about these semantics 

 

YAAAAAAASS! Love it! Also, love knowing that these kinda folk exist!

[Dean]

48 minutes ago, WhazUp said:

I just call the AFD lineup the "original lineup" in casual convsersation because everyone knows what we mean when we say that.  And I remember a couple of now-banned past members here always got GNR-triggered when someone called a non-Tracii Guns lineup the "original" lineup so I still do it in hopes I can piss off people that uptight about these semantics 

 

I'm sort of on the same boat. I like dropping that the greatest songwriting rhythm guitarist to ever grace Guns N' Roses is a geezer that jumped between two surnames and played some of the most beautiful guitar ever recorded on a cover of a Rolling Stones song....

 

[19AT5]

1 hour ago, Dean said:

I'm sort of on the same boat. I like dropping that the greatest songwriting rhythm guitarist to ever grace Guns N' Roses is a geezer that jumped between two surnames and played some of the most beautiful guitar ever recorded on a cover of a Rolling Stones song....

 

Aye, I thought Jeffrey Isbell's rhythm tracks on Jumpin' Jack Flash were pretty cool too!