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The "New Album" Thread . The maybe, possibly, at some point, soon, whenever, wtf Axl thread🤞


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6 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Didn't know there was leak of that. BUT, the point remains that, a demo is highly unlikely to remain as is right up to the release of an album. Sometimes all that gets taken from a demo is 5 seconds of an idea, and from there the idea is developed. Like I said, that is just how 'some' records are made.

Yeah - it’s called Shanklers Revenge however. In terms of the demos it’s the one that is most different to the final version.....it’s quite something to see how it was reworked to what we know now.

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Nuno Bettencourt of Extreme was interviewed the other day. By the way, their last album was out 2008 (the same as Chinese Democracy)

He said that the album was finished and ready to be released march 2020, but was stopped by the pandemic. He said they are a touring band and wants to tour and promote the album on the road. Ha said further that when to world re-opens - lets celebrate it with this new music and that we all can gather on a concert again. 
It might be that GNR thinks in a similar vein, I believe the album is done!

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18 minutes ago, vloors said:

Not at all. 

Agreed. In fact I can just imagine a 17 year old me, seeing a band on TV with a ginger singer with cornrows wearing a pork pie hat, looking like a gangster, backed with one guitarist wearing a yellow rain coat with an upside down KFC bucket on his head whilst wearing a Michael Myers mask, another guitarist with half his head shaved with a pale white make up, dressed in leather, and another... ah fuck it, you get the gist! The mere fact the band had 3 guitarists would've likely put me on, let alone two keyboard players! The AFD and UYI-eras were generally pretty cool, but the nu-Guns-era was anything but. As good a player as Buckethead is, it's not the right fit for GNR. 

4 minutes ago, betterman said:

Nuno Bettencourt of Extreme was interviewed the other day. By the way, their last album was out 2008 (the same as Chinese Democracy)

He said that the album was finished and ready to be released march 2020, but was stopped by the pandemic. He said they are a touring band and wants to tour and promote the album on the road. Ha said further that when to world re-opens - lets celebrate it with this new music and that we all can gather on a concert again. 
It might be that GNR thinks in a similar vein, I believe the album is done!

I would love it if you were correct, sir! :) 

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11 hours ago, Sweersa said:

That's the beauty of it. If they released CD2 as it was in 2010 or whatever, most casual fans would think Slash is on it. Much like many thought he was on 2008 CD. If they hear Axl, they are happy. They won't care if it's Paul Tobias, Robin Finck, Slash, Buckethead, etc. would they even be able to tell the difference? Buckethead would stand out the most. Most fans do not have as keen of ears as we do for the various players.

Bullshit

People either didn't care for GNR anymore at that time and thought they have split up or they had so much knowledge as Rock music fans and knew Slash isn't part of that circus.

Remember Slash and Duff were relatively successful with VR and Slash released his first solo record in 2010 and played almost every big festival in Europe that summer in front of hundreds of thousand people.

Some people argue CD (as it is) would have been more successful with Slash on it and people didn't give it a change not for the music, but for the lack of Slash.

Now you argue knowbody knew Slash wasn't part of it.

CD simply failed because it lacked quality. It didn't hit any zeitgeist or had this big great tracks on it. Most of those who were waiting years for CD got dissapointed at the end. 

Eventually CD was a big let down.

Everybody who loves this record can be happy, it's personal taste, but you are a minority. Don't search for excuses why it didn't reach the success it should have in your opinion. It would have been a success if it was that good.

Edited by Free Bird
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21 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

CD simply failed because it lacked quality.

but you don't actually know that. It's funny cause I think it is at least comparable in quality to Contraband which was a far more mainstream release with an easier to digest sound and catchy choruses and riffs with a simpler production.

Chinese had more than enough big tunes with strong solos, and the album is now seen by many rock/metal listeners as a good album. Critics thought it was pretty good too. It isn't as accessible as AFD or Contraband, and Axl chose to sing a lot of parts of it in a clean voice so not even his iconic rasp was there for people to connect to it more easily.

I think it would have done just fine had Axl released it in 2000-2002. I believe most of the damage was done by just waiting too long. 

 

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12 hours ago, Sweersa said:

That's the beauty of it. If they released CD2 as it was in 2010 or whatever, most casual fans would think Slash is on it. Much like many thought he was on 2008 CD. If they hear Axl, they are happy. They won't care if it's Paul Tobias, Robin Finck, Slash, Buckethead, etc. would they even be able to tell the difference? Buckethead would stand out the most. Most fans do not have as keen of ears as we do for the various players.

I dunno, most people who are rock fans who I talked to about GNR over the years, of which there were many, were definitely aware that it was "the Axl Rose show" during that time and knew Slash was not there.

Which make sense because Slash is one of the most famous and one of the last truly singled-out guitarists of the last 30-35 years that capped the "guitar god" era.  From my perspective the lack of Slash in GNR in the 2000s was more well known than the actual music of Chinese Democracy to the average rock music fan lol

Edited by WhazUp
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13 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Bullshit

People either didn't care for GNR anymore at that time and thought they have split up or they had so much knowledge as Rock music fans and knew Slash isn't part of that circus.

Remember Slash and Duff were relatively successful with VR and Slash released his first solo record in 2010 and played almost every big festival in Europe that summer in front of hundreds of thousand people.

Some people argue CD (as it is) would have been more successful with Slash on it and people didn't give it a change not for the music, but for the lack of Slash.

Now you argue knowbody knew Slash wasn't part of it.

CD simply failed because it lacked quality. It didn't hit any zeitgeist or had this big great tracks on it. Most of those who were waiting years for CD got dissapointed at the end. 

Eventually CD was a big let down.

Everybody who loves this record can be happy, it's personal taste, but you are a minority. Don't search for excuses why it didn't reach the success it should have in your opinion. It would have been a success if it was that good.

Holy fuck, on point sir! Agree fully with all what you said. I wanted it to succeed but alas I was disappointed in the end. A few good tracks on it, but overall it's a bit of a stinker really. 

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35 minutes ago, betterman said:

Nuno Bettencourt of Extreme was interviewed the other day. By the way, their last album was out 2008 (the same as Chinese Democracy)

He said that the album was finished and ready to be released march 2020, but was stopped by the pandemic. He said they are a touring band and wants to tour and promote the album on the road. Ha said further that when to world re-opens - lets celebrate it with this new music and that we all can gather on a concert again. 
It might be that GNR thinks in a similar vein, I believe the album is done!

I love nunos stuff. Might be blasphemy to some but i rank his guitar skill up to van halens level. Extreme had been on hiatus though for quite a few years only recently getting back together. Looking forward to that album.

Hopefully gnr do tour off the new record. Fingers crossed.

 

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If only the orbital paths of Jupiter and Saturn had been aligned, it was not raining in Mawsynram, it was midday in Toronto, my window was open, and not a single individual had been shot in the US that day, I truly believe in my heart of hearts that Chinese Democracy would've been hailed as the greatest album of all time! 

Obviously I am taking the piss, but it does feel a bit like that at times here!

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14 minutes ago, Italian girl said:

what's happening to this thread today? is the new album out?

Maybe everyone collectively received their GNR branded toy truck in the mail and logged on here out of sheer excitement and ecstasy?

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52 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Bullshit

People either didn't care for GNR anymore at that time and thought they have split up or they had so much knowledge as Rock music fans and knew Slash isn't part of that circus.

Remember Slash and Duff were relatively successful with VR and Slash released his first solo record in 2010 and played almost every big festival in Europe that summer in front of hundreds of thousand people.

Some people argue CD (as it is) would have been more successful with Slash on it and people didn't give it a change not for the music, but for the lack of Slash.

Now you argue knowbody knew Slash wasn't part of it.

CD simply failed because it lacked quality. It didn't hit any zeitgeist or had this big great tracks on it. Most of those who were waiting years for CD got dissapointed at the end. 

Eventually CD was a big let down.

Everybody who loves this record can be happy, it's personal taste, but you are a minority. Don't search for excuses why it didn't reach the success it should have in your opinion. It would have been a success if it was that good.

Let’s not forget that:
- The record was totally different from anything from before. 40-year olds were expecting Jungle and got If the World and Shackler instead. The record is incohesive as a whole. 
- There was no simple rock n’ roll song like Perfect Crime or Dead Horse, kicking ass from the beginning. There are intros and layers and all this shit; no too memorable guitar solos either. Again, compared with Slash, this couldn’t have won. And comparisons were strong with this one. 
- There was zero promotion prior to the release and zero promotion afterwards. No official videos, no Youtube, interviews, nothing – and this shit plays a huge role these days, especially for the younger ones. Even the tour took a whole year to start after the release. Who does this? 
- I suppose many casuals still didn’t properly know the new musicians, and the only person who could have given some meaningful interview was Axl… and that didn’t happen, if you don’t include that weird self-interviews made with Del or the forum chats – which is not exactly comparable with lengthy interviews in Rolling Stone, online magazines etc. Also, there still may have been people butthurt from the 2002 tour fiasco, completely given up on, or even hating, the band. 
- But I don’t think it lacked quality – it’s just not what the “what’s SCOM” fans would have expected. There are no straightforward rn’r tracks, just embellished, complicated songs. Now mix all these aspects together, and the result is clear. Although I wouldn’t use the term “fail”, as that implies some pass/fail situation, which doesn’t really apply here, does it. I don’t care about specific numbers and tables, but let’s say there was some success. Comparing it with Appetite or whatever with Slash obviously wouldn’t be exactly appropriate, though. 

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21 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Let’s not forget that:
- The record was totally different from anything from before. 40-year olds were expecting Jungle and got If the World and Shackler instead. The record is incohesive as a whole. 
- There was no simple rock n’ roll song like Perfect Crime or Dead Horse, kicking ass from the beginning. There are intros and layers and all this shit; no too memorable guitar solos either. Again, compared with Slash, this couldn’t have won. And comparisons were strong with this one. 
- There was zero promotion prior to the release and zero promotion afterwards. No official videos, no Youtube, interviews, nothing – and this shit plays a huge role these days, especially for the younger ones. Even the tour took a whole year to start after the release. Who does this? 
- I suppose many casuals still didn’t properly know the new musicians, and the only person who could have given some meaningful interview was Axl… and that didn’t happen, if you don’t include that weird self-interviews made with Del or the forum chats – which is not exactly comparable with lengthy interviews in Rolling Stone, online magazines etc. Also, there still may have been people butthurt from the 2002 tour fiasco, completely given up on, or even hating, the band. 
- But I don’t think it lacked quality – it’s just not what the “what’s SCOM” fans would have expected. There are no straightforward rn’r tracks, just embellished, complicated songs. Now mix all these aspects together, and the result is clear. Although I wouldn’t use the term “fail”, as that implies some pass/fail situation, which doesn’t really apply here, does it. I don’t care about specific numbers and tables, but let’s say there was some success. Comparing it with Appetite or whatever with Slash obviously wouldn’t be exactly appropriate, though. 

That no promotion talk is also a myth! There were ads in TV not only in the US, a lot of promotion in radio during the release of the first single, that advertising gimmick by Dr Pepper was globally reported.

After the release in fact, with Axl's disappearing, no interviews, no music videos... that didn’t help to sell the record. That's a point.

And you are right with your other points as well. This record wasn't what you'd expect from a GNR record. That was another big point. It's not a GNR record from a stylistic point of view. And that means the quality suffers for someone who's expecting classic rock music. At least that was the case for me.

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56 minutes ago, jamillos said:

Let’s not forget that:
- The record was totally different from anything from before. 40-year olds were expecting Jungle and got If the World and Shackler instead. The record is incohesive as a whole. 
- There was no simple rock n’ roll song like Perfect Crime or Dead Horse, kicking ass from the beginning. There are intros and layers and all this shit; no too memorable guitar solos either. Again, compared with Slash, this couldn’t have won. And comparisons were strong with this one. 
- There was zero promotion prior to the release and zero promotion afterwards. No official videos, no Youtube, interviews, nothing – and this shit plays a huge role these days, especially for the younger ones. Even the tour took a whole year to start after the release. Who does this? 
- I suppose many casuals still didn’t properly know the new musicians, and the only person who could have given some meaningful interview was Axl… and that didn’t happen, if you don’t include that weird self-interviews made with Del or the forum chats – which is not exactly comparable with lengthy interviews in Rolling Stone, online magazines etc. Also, there still may have been people butthurt from the 2002 tour fiasco, completely given up on, or even hating, the band. 
- But I don’t think it lacked quality – it’s just not what the “what’s SCOM” fans would have expected. There are no straightforward rn’r tracks, just embellished, complicated songs. Now mix all these aspects together, and the result is clear. Although I wouldn’t use the term “fail”, as that implies some pass/fail situation, which doesn’t really apply here, does it. I don’t care about specific numbers and tables, but let’s say there was some success. Comparing it with Appetite or whatever with Slash obviously wouldn’t be exactly appropriate, though. 

I'd agree with most of your overview here. There were waaaaaaaaay too many ambient intros on the record. It was just over the top in that regard. I'd also throw in that whilst some of the lyrics were actually pretty cool (e.g. Better, TWAT) there was a lot of utter BS on there too (e.g. Scraped, Rhiad). He didn't help himself. It felt like a therapy record at times! Perhaps it was. 

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33 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

That no promotion talk is also a myth! There were ads in TV not only in the US, a lot of promotion in radio during the release of the first single, that advertising gimmick by Dr Pepper was globally reported.

After the release in fact, with Axl's disappearing, no interviews, no music videos... that didn’t help to sell the record. That's a point.

And you are right with your other points as well. This record wasn't what you'd expect from a GNR record. That was another big point. It's not a GNR record from a stylistic point of view. And that means the quality suffers for someone who's expecting classic rock music. At least that was the case for me.

I wouldn't downright call it a myth, because what you're describing is far away from what I meant by - and what is indeed generally perceived as - proper promotion. But otherwise yes. 

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CD is best described as 'divisive'. 

I'm in the camp that thinks it's absolutely fantastic and find it difficult to fault. Others seem to dislike it. 

I couldn't give a fuck how well it sold, whether some 'SCOM' kareoke fans didn't like it as it didn't sound identical to their other stuff, or how it 'connected with people'. These things are irrelevant to my appreciation of music from anyone. 

Writing it off as 'awful' or saying it's no good because you personally didn't like it is a bit ridiculous really, when it's clear that a lot of people here genuinely love it. Perhaps it just wasn't to your taste? 

 

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5 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

CD is best described as 'divisive'. 

I'm in the camp that thinks it's absolutely fantastic and find it difficult to fault. Others seem to dislike it. 

I couldn't give a fuck how well it sold, whether some 'SCOM' kareoke fans didn't like it as it didn't sound identical to their other stuff, or how it 'connected with people'. These things are irrelevant to my appreciation of music from anyone. 

Writing it off as 'awful' or saying it's no good because you personally didn't like it is a bit ridiculous really, when it's clear that a lot of people here genuinely love it. Perhaps it just wasn't to your taste? 

 

I take it you weren't talking to me here, but let me just state anyway that I myself quite like the album. Loved it when it came out, still like it. There are weaker parts, there are stronger parts, lots of it sounded better in a 2010 live version. Well, I'm not a casual, am I. :D

Edited by jamillos
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Someone who heard two albums worth of completed material years ago from the CD era said the 2008 CD we got was a sampler between those two albums, musically. 

Hopefully one day we can find out if we agree or disagree with the above. 

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1 hour ago, jamillos said:

I take it you weren't talking to me here, but let me just state anyway that I myself quite like the album. Loved it when it came out, still like it. There are weaker parts, there are stronger parts, lots of it sounded better in a 2010 live version. Well, I'm not a casual, am I. :D

No, not talking to anyone in particular- just the general idea that CD isn't good because somebody/some people didn't like it, or it didn't sell as well as it could, when it's clear others really really did like it. 

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52 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

I really don't see the "non promotion" story with CD. There were commercials on TV and displays in the store. Plus it had all the hype. What else could they do?

It bombed for a lot of reasons, and I say that as a fan

Maybe release proper singles with proper videos? Before, during, and after the albums release, like you'd expect from any big album at the time.

And if Axl had come out of hiding and talked to the media, that might have helped. Especially a big TV interview would have been big.

The above is basically the bare minimum after the label had spent $14 million or whatever it was on recording and mixing the thing.

After the total lack of cooperation from Axl I'm not surprised in the slightest that a follow up never came.

Edited by jackparker123
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1 hour ago, Sweersa said:

Like it or not, CD (2008) was a commercial success, which is impressive seeing how it wasn't promoted for a while after the release. It also generally had positive reviews. 

Eh, by what metric are you determining it was a success?! It is still the most expensive album ever made! It sold 1m copies in the US I think. 

I think overall the reviews were not too bad, you're correct. From memory, I think the general view (which is 100% accurate in my opinion) was... this isn't a GNR album. But as an Axl solo album, yeah okay, this kinda works.

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