New Duff interview in Classic Rock (vague about new music - addresses the Izzy issue)

[downzy]

15 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

He also said "you need to be all in" and izzy wasn't all on with the idea of the shows. I think we can put the story together through everyone's accounts. He didn't want to do the full tour, they wanted him to commit he wasn't up for 2yrs plus. He wanted more money for guest appearances and they felt that more money is dependant on being there on a more fulltime basis, discussions broke down and they did their thing and he did his.

Maybe.  We just don't know what Izzy's commitment level was at the time.  

If Izzy was interested and had clearly communicated this to the other key players, then Axl, Duff, and Slash made their decision solely for financial reasons.  Izzy did make it clear that the reason he wasn't involved was because the others didn't want to fairly share the loot.  But I'm not sure Izzy is considering the logistical implications for Guns if he wasn't interested in doing the kind of touring the rest of the band was up for.  

[double talkin jive mfkr]

obviously $ is what fucking determines if you do something such as work and if it's too little for what you consider your worth you don't fucking do it -= its so funny yet spineless by Duff to throw his friend under the bus again and looks like it was again ignoring the $ factor and trying to paint him in some shitty light, what a douche, hes clearly on the TB side of things 

[Blackstar]

This is what Duff had said about Izzy in the same magazine a few months ago (May 2019), which can be read as a specification of what Axl had said in their joint Globo interview (and had triggered Izzy's "loot tweet"):

Was Izzy ever going to rejoin the band? What’s the truth?
 
Duff: I don’t know what the actual truth is. We definitely wanted him to do it, and I think he entertained the thought, but he never came down and rehearsed. We had amps for him, ready to go. The first month of rehearsal went by... Nothing. Second month of rehearsal came by, and we’re talking to him: “We’re getting close, Iz.” Third month of rehearsal went by... Nothing. I guess he just didn’t want to tour this big and for so long. I love that dude, but I gotta say that Richard Fortus is a hell of a player and we couldn't ask for a better guy.

-----

I agree that the negotiations with Izzy were most likely about the spring 2016 shows, before the whole thing expanded into a long tour, and didn't go further than that.

My guess is that Izzy wanted a "true" reunion, which would mean rebooting to where the band was before he had left (including equal pay and probably the discarding of what Axl did on his own in between, i.e. the NuGnR era), and that couldn't happen.

There was a rumoured amount Izzy was offered for four shows ($40,000) that would have been really insulting for Izzy if true. But maybe, whatever the offered amount was, Izzy didn't give them a direct response (like telling them to fuck off or whatever), he kept to himself and just didn't bother showing up to the rehearsals (or stopped showing up, if the rumours of the time that he was jamming with them are true - Izzy has denied them), which would explain Duff's comments. I think this is very likely, because this is how Izzy had acted when he quit the band in 1991. 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Blackstar

[double talkin jive mfkr]

2 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

This is what Duff had said about Izzy in the same magazine a few months ago (May 2019), which can be read as a specification of what Axl had said in their joint Globo interview (and had triggered Izzy's "loot tweet"):

Was Izzy ever going to rejoin the band? What’s the truth?
 
Duff: I don’t know what the actual truth is. We definitely wanted him to do it, and I think he entertained the thought, but he never came down and rehearsed. We had amps for him, ready to go. The first month of rehearsal went by... Nothing. Second month of rehearsal came by, and we’re talking to him: “We’re getting close, Iz.” Third month of rehearsal went by... Nothing. I guess he just didn’t want to tour this big and for so long. I love that dude, but I gotta say that Richard Fortus is a hell of a player and we couldn't ask for a better guy.

-----

I agree that the negotiations with Izzy were most likely about the spring 2016 shows, before the whole thing expanded into a long tour.

My guess is that Izzy wanted a "true" reunion, which would mean a rebooting to where the band was before he had left (including equal pay and probably disregarding what Axl did on his own in between, i.e. the NuGnR era), and that couldn't happen.

There was a rumoured amount Izzy was offered for four shows ($40,000) that would have been really insulting for Izzy if true. But maybe, whatever the offered amount was, Izzy didn't give them a direct response (like telling them to fuck off or whatever), he kept to himself and just didn't bother showing up to the rehearsals (or stopped showing up, if the rumours of the time that he was jamming with them are true - Izzy has denied them), which would explain Duff's quote above. I think this is very likely, because this is how Izzy had acted when he quit the band in 1991. 

icing someone b/c of the insult offer should have been interpreted but since he didn't bother talking to them about shit, they try and spin like he's a flake   

[downzy]

3 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

they try and spin like he's a flake

Is that spin, though?

Look at Izzy's history.  I don't know the situation first hand so I might be misspoken, but it doesn't seem like Izzy is someone you can rely on to show up day-in, day-out for a multi-year tour.  

[double talkin jive mfkr]

4 minutes ago, downzy said:

Is that spin, though?

Look at Izzy's history.  I don't know the situation first hand so I might be misspoken, but it doesn't seem like Izzy is someone you can rely on to show up day-in, day-out for a multi-year tour.  

the use your illusion tour reference is an anomaly at best, thats all anyone has to go on, the time he quit and then came back here and there more or less b/c they needed or wanted him 

[Edward Nygma]

3 minutes ago, downzy said:

Is that spin, though?

Look at Izzy's history.  I don't know the situation first hand so I might be misspoken, but it doesn't seem like Izzy is someone you can rely on to show up day-in, day-out for a multi-year tour.  

I know his main focus was his sobriety and good for him but didn't he pull out of the Illusion tour early on? I know he filled in for Clarke when he got injured. 

[downzy]

2 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

the use your illusion tour reference is an anomaly at best, thats all anyone has to go on, the time he quit and then came back here and there more or less b/c they needed or wanted him 

I thought there were also issues with Izzy's involvement with VR.  And I remember reading stories about Izzy playing with GNR in 2006 and 2010.  No one really knew if he was going to be playing on any given night.  Some nights he'd show up, others he was no where to be found.  

[Gunner55]

3 hours ago, rebeldhipi said:

Here Duff refers that Axl was the one that asked Duff and Slash to play some songs from Chinese.

 

 

I caught that too. I don't care who suggested it, I'm just glad it happened. I've always argued against people who refused to accept Chinese as a Guns record. So bringing this up to those people is always fun. 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

43 minutes ago, downzy said:

I thought there were also issues with Izzy's involvement with VR.  And I remember reading stories about Izzy playing with GNR in 2006 and 2010.  No one really knew if he was going to be playing on any given night.  Some nights he'd show up, others he was no where to be found.  

pretty wishy washy 

VR- he was in but then they didn't want him fronting so he left 

nuGNR - that can hardly be used as any solid reference, he was in for guest spots and showed up when contracted 

 

the only solid reference is what he did between 85-91 which is front for axl when axl didn't show up and had huge if not instrumental part in the songwriting process being the main catalyst character in production 

the other solid reference is his first ju ju album which although not gnr material is the best solo material including CD thats come out from any gnr member 

Edited December 24, 2019 by double talkin jive mfkr

[lame ass security]

2 hours ago, ©GnrPersia said:

Is it?

Get on the money train, never to return.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

41 minutes ago, Edward Nygma said:

I know his main focus was his sobriety and good for him but didn't he pull out of the Illusion tour early on? I know he filled in for Clarke when he got injured. 

he quit right when the illusions were released and right after one of the best if not best legs of any GNR tour, he went out with a bang and either way maybe that damage is too harsh to take even after all these years 

he then returned in 93 briefly to cover for gilby but mostly to get paid cause they would've tried to stiff him otherwise 

one would think they could come to some sort of resolution now as wiser men 

Edited December 24, 2019 by double talkin jive mfkr

[FuriousStyles]

To quote the great poet Arnold Schwarzenegger

Axl is seemingly offered a cool million (plus?) by Paul Tollett to reunite with Slash at Coachella....Out of the kindness of his heart, Axl reunites with Slash to perform as "Guns N' Roses" at Coachella

Slash pulls a power play at the 11th hour (allegedly) to secure a higher percentage of the split, Duff concedes his percentage (allegedly)

After Izzy's absence and some half-baked excuse by Axl and Duff, Izzy responds on Twitter by saying they didn't want to split the loot

This whole thing has been about money, plain and simple. Any other reason is a slight of hand to make this "reunion" and subsequent tour look organic.....

[nycgunner]

Thanks for the interview. I don’t get why these guys are so fucking coy with the album talk. You’re either doing it or not.  It’s fucking childish and, in the grand scheme of things, not that important. This isn’t a matter of national security!

[Ratam]

He sound uncomfortable talking about Izzy, and about new album he sound enough evasive.

[Blackstar]

47 minutes ago, FuriousStyles said:

Axl is seemingly offered a cool million (plus?) by Paul Tollett to reunite with Slash at Coachella....Out of the kindness of his heart, Axl reunites with Slash to perform as "Guns N' Roses" at Coachella

According to Slash, they were getting the reunion offer from Coachella every year for years, since Coachella started (and obviously they'd been declining until 2015).

[Tom-Ass]

4 hours ago, RussTCB said:

"I just don't think he wanted to do it. We tried to make it work, but it just didn't" 

Lolduff.... I'm sure Izzy would've done it if you guys were willing to pay him what he's worth. 

Yup.. Judging from Izzy's reaction to it all.. Duff is full of shit..

[downzy]

2 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

pretty wishy washy 

VR- he was in but then they didn't want him fronting so he left 

nuGNR - that can hardly be used as any solid reference, he was in for guest spots and showed up when contracted 

 

the only solid reference is what he did between 85-91 which is front for axl when axl didn't show up and had huge if not instrumental part in the songwriting process being the main catalyst character in production 

the other solid reference is his first ju ju album which although not gnr material is the best solo material including CD thats come out from any gnr member 

Sorry, but you're speaking from nothing more than conjecture.  

How are you sure that the concert dates Izzy made an appearance were part of his contract?  You have no basis to make that claim with anything more than a guess.

Look, no one really knows for sure.  To the people who say Izzy isn't there solely because of the money, I say there are likely other considerations.

Axl even made it clear before there was even a hint of a reunion that if one were to go down that Izzy wouldn't be included.  I think it was back in 2014 or 2015 in South America Axl made the claim that Izzy just wasn't into large-scale operations that a GNR reunion would entail.  It's not as though Izzy not being apart of the new reunion didn't come without clear indications by at least Axl and past Izzy's irregular appearances with GNR.

[WhazUp]

It sucks that Izzy isn't there, however I definitely think there is not enough *actual* info out there to really logically lay blame on anyone currently.  However at least Fortus IMO is doing a good job with Slash and overall while I know the AFD lineup is the dream by most, I am glad at least this lineup (again IMO) is a solid unit

[Gordon Comstock]

33 minutes ago, downzy said:

Sorry, but you're speaking from nothing more than conjecture.  

How are you sure that the concert dates Izzy made an appearance were part of his contract?  You have no basis to make that claim with anything more than a guess.

Look, no one really knows for sure.  To the people who say Izzy isn't there solely because of the money, I say there are likely other considerations.

Axl even made it clear before there was even a hint of a reunion that if one were to go down that Izzy wouldn't be included.  I think it was back in 2014 or 2015 in South America Axl made the claim that Izzy just wasn't into large-scale operations that a GNR reunion would entail.  It's not as though Izzy not being apart of the new reunion didn't come without clear indications by at least Axl and past Izzy's irregular appearances with GNR.

Axl said back in 2011 that if there were a reunion, it'd likely just be himself, Slash and Duff. I forget who the interview was with, maybe Rolling Stone or Billboard or something, but it was right after the Seattle 2011 show.

[DownUnderScott]

3 hours ago, downzy said:

Maybe.  We just don't know what Izzy's commitment level was at the time.  

If Izzy was interested and had clearly communicated this to the other key players, then Axl, Duff, and Slash made their decision solely for financial reasons.  Izzy did make it clear that the reason he wasn't involved was because the others didn't want to fairly share the loot.  But I'm not sure Izzy is considering the logistical implications for Guns if he wasn't interested in doing the kind of touring the rest of the band was up for.  

Downzy is all over it. Izzy is probably not reliable enough to commit to years of touring. And you raise a great point that it would look stupid if they cut Fortus, then brought him back in when Izzy got tired of the massive demands of international touring. Fortus has more than earned his spot, is a great musician, has awesome stage presence, and most importantly compliments Slash very well. 

Now you can insert Adler and Frank for the above sentence too, and it’s very similar and applicable.

The only thing that I’m disappointed about is that somewhere along the touring, in the US, they couldn’t get Izzy and Adler up on stage for at least a few shows, or one show for a few songs, to have the band back together just for one more time, and throw millions at the two boys to get it to happen. 

[downzy]

3 minutes ago, DownUnderScott said:

The only thing that I’m disappointed about is that somewhere along the touring, in the US, they couldn’t get Izzy and Adler up on stage for at least a few shows, or one show for a few songs, to have the band back together just for one more time, and throw millions at the two boys to get it to happen. 

It would be great but I'm not sure if Izzy would want to be anywhere near Steven if there was any concern that Steven is still using.  From what I hear, Izzy is extremely protective of his sobriety (rightfully so).  Having a wildcard like Adler around isn't a great idea for someone who wants nothing to do with it.

As much as I would love to see a reunion of the five original members, it just doesn't look like it's in the cards.  I'm grateful for what we got.  If you had told me ten years ago that Axl, Slash, and Duff would be touring under the GNR name playing songs like Coma, Locomotive, Estranged, Better, TWAT, Yesterdays, Madagascar, Double Talking Jive and others, I would say you're full of shit and would have given you 100 to 1 odds.  I think it's easy to get complacent and lose perspective with what fans got the last three years.  

Yes, new music is the big fat omission here.

For those of us who stuck around from the early 90s and got one new album, it's been a long haul.  I'll speak for myself here but I'm glad I have enough good things in my life that new GNR music isn't as important to me as it once was back before my family and careers.  

[RussTCB]

2 hours ago, nycgunner said:

Thanks for the interview. I don’t get why these guys are so fucking coy with the album talk. You’re either doing it or not.  It’s fucking childish and, in the grand scheme of things, not that important. This isn’t a matter of national security!

They're that way because they have to be. This is why I've been saying that Duff & Slash are no different than Fortus, Stinson, BBF, Ashba or anyone else who isn't Axl. He's the only one everything rides on. The best anyone else can give us is "we're sure hoping to release something someday...maybe" 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

Sorry, but you're speaking from nothing more than conjecture.  

How are you sure that the concert dates Izzy made an appearance were part of his contract?  You have no basis to make that claim with anything more than a guess.

Look, no one really knows for sure.  To the people who say Izzy isn't there solely because of the money, I say there are likely other considerations.

Axl even made it clear before there was even a hint of a reunion that if one were to go down that Izzy wouldn't be included.  I think it was back in 2014 or 2015 in South America Axl made the claim that Izzy just wasn't into large-scale operations that a GNR reunion would entail.  It's not as though Izzy not being apart of the new reunion didn't come without clear indications by at least Axl and past Izzy's irregular appearances with GNR.

yeah man im not really arguing 

axl knew he wouldn't be part of it but extended some way in a half ass manner that izzy wasn't interested in pursuing it to make him look like it wasn't him making the decision (loot)- its covering your ass when you knew that he wouldn't follow through anyways or would he? - its a bunk argument either way  

look no further to page and plant when they left JP Jones out, they said divided by 2 is better than 3

1) adler said izzy wanted the original 5 or maybe some version of the classic 91 lineup  --- so that was a no go - axl knew it would only take him slash and duff to do it to make the $ 

what else is there to talk about 

Edited December 24, 2019 by double talkin jive mfkr

[downzy]

15 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

axl knew he wouldn't be part of it but extended some way in a half ass manner that izzy wasn't interested in pursuing it to make him look like it wasn't him making the decision (loot)- its covering your ass when you knew that he wouldn't follow through anyways or would he? - its bunk either way 

Again, you're speaking as though you know that's what actually happened.  Unless you're Izzy or Axl, that's just conjecture.

Keep in mind that Axl made it pretty clear long before the reunion that he didn't think Izzy would be involved because Izzy wasn't a fan of large-scale touring.  As someone pointed out, that comment was made not too long after Izzy had just played with Axl and well before Axl had made up with Slash.  

So again, I'm not saying that money wasn't a factor, but considering what GNR has done in the last four years and what Axl and others have said about Izzy's commitment to touring (in addition to Izzy's own record on the matter), it's not fair to say that money was the only factor.  There's just not enough for anyone, you or I, to make the kind of unequivocal statements that you keep making.

15 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

1) adler said izzy wanted the original 5 --- so that was a no go - axl knew it would only take him slash and duff to do it to make the $ 

Well, who knows if what Adler says is true.  I have heard from people who were close to both Izzy and Adler that Izzy wanted absolutely nothing to do with Adler back in the late 2000s because of Adler's addiction issues.  Granted, that's a long time ago so perhaps things have changed.  So again, I don't know what the current status is between the two.  Maybe that's something Izzy said to Adler to make Adler feel better for being left out?  Maybe Izzy really did want it to be the five of them but Axl, Duff, and Slash knew that the kind of touring schedule wouldn't have worked for Adler's addiction challenges.  

Look at it another way: a GNR reunion tour is a massive operation.  There are millions of dollars on the line.  Not just potential revenues, but up-front millions for production costs, travelling, insurance, cancelation penalties, legal, etc.  And that's to say nothing about fan frustration and disappointment if they have to cancel because of some personnel issues.  

Can you blame Axl, Duff, and Slash for not wanting to gamble that kind of operation on their former drummer who had yet to show any deep commitment to his sobriety?  Or to the former rhythm guitar player, who walked out on them in the early 90s and hadn't shown much interest in large-scale tours?  I realize GNR use to be called "the most dangerous band in the world," but they're not dumb.