What if GNR never split up and released 5 or 6 albums ?

[El Guapo]

Yeah, these Izzy tracks are just cool. And very important for balance. That's the thing, they all brought their style and Izzy brought the cool. He made Axl and Slash cooler than they ever were, in a sense.

[EvanG]

5 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

There is a kind of magic to that song and like...it hasn't been able to bear scrutiny for me through most of my like awareness of it but it occurs to me now why its so good and I think, perhaps, its that the lyrics don't fit there tune.  The tune is kinda hyped, the music I mean, energetic...but the lyrics are like sappy love ballad stuff and it somehow works together when it shouldn't.  I think thats perhaps it, something to do with the coming together of those two kind of incongruent elements.  If you heard that tune without the lyrics you would feel that it was some kind of hard rock, punk tune...the last place in the world that you would expect sincere sentimental lyrics.

The proof of a lyric or lyrics I think is less to do with how they work written down because quite frankly 99.9% percent of rock lyrics are absolute bollocks just as pieces of writing (there are some examples that could be called exceptions, Dylan, bits of Leonard Cohen and some others) but its how they work when set to music and 14 years is one of my favourite ever GnR tracks and always has been, ever since I first heard it...Dust n Bones too.

You make a good point. The lyrics of Think About You never bothered me that much, but when I think about it I realize how awful they really are to me.

With Patience they kind of stick out though because it's a ballad and the way Axl sings it... another Izzy lyric, isn't it? ...''shed a tear 'cause I'm missing you... girl I think about you every day now''... oh jeez, fuck off already, that's something you would expect a Backstreet Boy to sing and even then it would be too sappy.

[Len Cnut]

10 minutes ago, EvanG said:

You make a good point. The lyrics of Think About You never bothered me that much, but when I think about it I realize how awful they really are to me.

With Patience they kind of stick out though because it's a ballad and the way Axl sings it... another Izzy lyric, isn't it? ...''shed a tear 'cause I'm missing you... girl I think about you every day now''... oh jeez, fuck off already, that's something you would expect a Backstreet Boy to sing and even then it would be too sappy.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being direct though, I mean a lot of great songs are emotionally direct.  It works cuz the music makes it work and its written for that music.  Also, to Axls credit, its about the sincerity or the percieved sincerity with which a lyric is delivered that makes it powerful.  Don't get me wrong, I get what you mean but it works too, there's a time for cryptic or a clever turn of phrase or an analagous couplet that makes you look at a familar idea from a unfamiliar perspective, like the way someone like Kurt Cobain might come from with a song like About a Girl and then there's a time for the direct too.  Overall I think its the song and the music and how it works in relation to that and Patience, to me, works like a motherfucker. 

[DieselDaisy]

'Think About You' is a simple 'boy meets girl' pop lyric fitting a simply pop-rock song, and is not too dissimilar to 'Sweet Child'. It is a fruitless exercise to look for lyrical complexity, subjective inflection say or topicality, in a simple pop-rock song. One wouldn't look at 'She Loves You' expecting to find 'Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands'. 

[action]

steven would have died of OD before the 3rd album, Duff around the spaghetti incident (since we're hypothesing they would still have toured after 1993) shortly followed by slash.

 

[Len Cnut]

22 minutes ago, action said:

steven would have died of OD before the 3rd album, Duff around the spaghetti incident (since we're hypothesing they would still have toured after 1993) shortly followed by slash.

 

Yanks, by and large, can’t handle their drink and drugs, its a genetic fact, these fraggles were only on it for about 5 years, look at my mate Keith Richards, he was still doing ching in his mid 60s and falling out of coconut trees like a madhead.  Or Keith Moon, or Oliver Reed, or Richard Burton, people from these shores know how to do drugs, these yanks just can’t hack it.  There are of course exceptions, Hunter Thompson, Robert Mitchum, William Burroughs, Ernest Hemmingway.  

[RONIN]

They would not be as "legendary" as they are today. Simple as that. 

Even if Izzy had come back to the fold as a writer, you'd still have another rhythm guitarist on the albums. No chance of Popcorn Adler ever coming back. Sorum would most definitely have been fired along with Gilby. However you shake it, given the personalities involved, you're 2 original members down from the get-go. That's a different band entirely without Izzy on rhythm guitar and backing vocals. You can say that they would have been the rolling stones for gen-x had they stuck together, but I don't see how that would have been possible without Izzy still in the band. And from what we know, it was a longshot to ever get him back even as a part-timer through the 90's, let alone as a fulltime member.

As far as I understand, Guns were deeply unpopular in the mid-90's. With Axl wanting to change the sound of the band and adapt to modern times, - even if there was a compromise and Axl had done a "Slash" record (which would have under-performed), they would have undoubtedly gone through a nu-metal/industrial period. That album would no doubt have been late to the party and sunk without a trace. The appraisal of "Oh My God" at the time was that it was too late, coming out at the tail end of the industrial fad. I just don't see them having the staying power of Metallica/RHCP, the band dynamics of GnR were too different. They would most likely have become a b-tier band and lost their legendary status imho had the band found a way to stay together and release more albums.  With that said, we undoubtedly lost 15 prime years of material, Axl and Slash were peaking as artists in the mid 90's to early 00's - we lost out on some killer albums. I have no doubt that had they stuck it out and gotten Izzy back, they would have topped UYI with their mid-to late 90's material. 

Maybe Billy Corgan was right - the guns story and all their upheavals became part of their brand. The wasted potential and unpredictability, the lack of music - it all added to the GnR lore today. Perhaps that's why there's no new music...why tamper with their legacy which has been etched in stone already? All they need to do now is coast on nostalgia and gig endlessly. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by RONIN

[mikeman5150]

2 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Yanks, by and large, can’t handle their drink and drugs, its a genetic fact, these fraggles were only on it for about 5 years, look at my mate Keith Richards, he was still doing ching in his mid 60s and falling out of coconut trees like a madhead.  Or Keith Moon, or Oliver Reed, or Richard Burton, people from these shores know how to do drugs, these yanks just can’t hack it.  There are of course exceptions, Hunter Thompson, Robert Mitchum, William Burroughs, Ernest Hemmingway.  

Keith moon is probably a bad example considering he died of an overdose at a relatively young age. Also, add Charlie Sheen to your list of exceptions lol

[mamundson]

What if I kept a Unicorn in my pocket, that granted wishes?

[EvanG]

3 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with being direct though, I mean a lot of great songs are emotionally direct.  It works cuz the music makes it work and its written for that music.  Also, to Axls credit, its about the sincerity or the percieved sincerity with which a lyric is delivered that makes it powerful.  Don't get me wrong, I get what you mean but it works too, there's a time for cryptic or a clever turn of phrase or an analagous couplet that makes you look at a familar idea from a unfamiliar perspective, like the way someone like Kurt Cobain might come from with a song like About a Girl and then there's a time for the direct too.  Overall I think its the song and the music and how it works in relation to that and Patience, to me, works like a motherfucker. 

I like it when lyrics are direct, but I don't care for them being sappy or cliché, that is what I dislike most about those particular Izzy lyrics.

About A Girl is a good example actually. It's a love song without being too obvious and sentimental but it's still not cryptic, yet he managed to write a love song without sounding like Bryan Adams (or Izzy Stradlin?). But hey, a lot of people like sappy lyrics, so that is great.

Edited February 18, 2020 by EvanG

[djones1225]

2 minutes ago, mamundson said:

What if I kept a Unicorn in my pocket, that granted wishes?

Then we'd have a new album by now, and Axl would have his voice back. 

Just now, djones1225 said:

Then we'd have a new album by now, and Axl would have his voice back. 

Hell you could find a unicorn and put it in your pocket by the time a new album is released.

[Len Cnut]

28 minutes ago, mikeman5150 said:

Keith moon is probably a bad example considering he died of an overdose at a relatively young age. 

True but only by accident...32 undigested pills were found in his system, you can’t argue with that  

[Sydney Fan]

20 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

True but only by accident...32 undigested pills were found in his system, you can’t argue with that  

You can  add John Bonham to that list as well. Though his death was accidental.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Sydney Fan

[Len Cnut]

26 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

You can  add John Bonham to that list as well. Though his death was accidental.

Bonzo, there you, another example!  Good old hard-wearing Midlands factory fodder, like Ozzy Osbourne, constitution of a fuckin’ horses, though I don’t think much of their music.

[lame ass security]

59 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

True but only by accident...32 undigested pills were found in his system, you can’t argue with that  

Pills that were meant to curb his drinking.😄  ol' Mooney was one of a kind.

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

Unless they had a Beggars - Exile-type run in them (highly unlikely considering how messed up they were at the end of the UYI Tour)- they probably only would have hurt themselves by sticking around, and releasing albums to diminishing returns throughout the 90s. Inadvertently, it ended up being the best play by far to be “frozen in time” in their late 20s/early 30s as a dangerous, stadium-level act with sex appeal...

[MaskingApathy]

On 2/17/2020 at 5:33 AM, jamillos said:

What if Kurt Cobain never died? 

They would've been just another band from Seattle. If they were around today they would probably be seen the same way Pearl Jam is.

[DieselDaisy]

11 hours ago, mikeman5150 said:

Keith moon is probably a bad example considering he died of an overdose at a relatively young age. Also, add Charlie Sheen to your list of exceptions lol

He died from an overdose of Heminevrin, ironically a drug to treat alcoholism. 

[Len Cnut]

11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

He died from an overdose of Heminevrin, ironically a drug to treat alcoholism. 

Apparently it disabled his oesophegaus so he just lay there will a gullet full of puke, drowning, the poor sod.

[yourcrazy]

I really feel if that happened, this band would be talked about as one of the best or the best rock bands in history.  Surpassing the Stones. There also would be a huge attitude difference from the fans and a whole lot less bitching in this forum.  This band is still very highly regarded and public opinion seems to have improved since the 2016 reunion.  Unfortunately, they will always be tagged for “what could have been”.  They threw it all away at the height of their popularity.   

[EvanG]

8 hours ago, MaskingApathy said:

They would've been just another band from Seattle. If they were around today they would probably be seen the same way Pearl Jam is.

Probably, their popularity was already declining a bit by late 1993 compared to the hype around them in 1991/1992.

[SoulMonster]

It's all subjective and in my opinion the best lyrics on Use Your Illusions are a lot better than the best lyrics on Appetite. I still prefer Appetite as an album, though. 

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, yourcrazy said:

I really feel if that happened, this band would be talked about as one of the best or the best rock bands in history.  Surpassing the Stones. There also would be a huge attitude difference from the fans and a whole lot less bitching in this forum.  This band is still very highly regarded and public opinion seems to have improved since the 2016 reunion.  Unfortunately, they will always be tagged for “what could have been”.  They threw it all away at the height of their popularity.   

Only in their dreams. 

[Stress Fracture]

At the other end of the scale, Bon Jovi are back with yet another new song that you’ll have forgotten exists seconds after listening to it.
 

 

[fantomas]

I think they would have faded away.  I think what made AFD so groundbreaking and timeless is the band lived what they sang. No posing, no pretentiousness, no bullshit. While the Sunset Strip was pushing out cockrock and partying, Gn'R were Les Paul's and heroin.  What made the band so famous was the exact same thing that blew it apart. Volatile, dangerous and unpredictable. Had the five managed to stay together and not have drama, there would never be an album as good as AFD.  That kind of lifestyle would mean the five would be at war with each other constantly.