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Dangelus

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Just now, Len Cnut said:

Yeah but the Tower of London is still the Tower of London, there's a certain majesty to it, Lords is still Lords...the Ripper Tour shit is not even anything vaguely resembling anything romantic, if one can romanticise Victorian era East London ratholes (which you can, Dickens etc, though it was not meant to be romantic at the time of publication) but they're like...nothing resembling that now. 

It all depends on what you're into. Some people (cough, American tourists) are into Saucy Jack. And Beatlemania is globally widespread, especially in places like Japan and the United States; for any fan of the Fab Four it is an awe inducing experience walking in the footsteps of John, Paul and co. But then if you dislike the Moptops and have little interest in Jack the Ripper, neither of these are appealing experiences. A lot of people - very strange people - visit places to shop whereas shopping for me is the equivalent of torture. 

And for me personally it is history and architecture and some people find this boring (the ones who like shopping!). Not Dazey obviously as he is a full paid up member of the National Trust!!

It depends on why you are visiting a place. 

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I have to confess that, although my Beatledom has waned somewhat with time, I'd certainly do the Magical Mystery Tour if I was in Liverpool for more than a day. I am curious about connecting the topography with the songs/fab four, and at the end of the day it only lasts tour hours: two hours and you see Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane, their houses, the Cavern and a few other things - I have spent worse two hours.  

Not first on my itinerary then like the aforementioned Speke Hall but something I would do given a two-three day window.

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25 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I have never actually been to Liverpewl. I keep meaning to go to Aigburgh but Lanky seem to have ditched it as an outground. Strange but I am sure I remember you expressing a desire to see Graceland.

I almost moved to Aigburgh a year or so back before I came to my senses and moved to Manchester instead. If you ever do go Lark Lane is definitely worth a look. 

https://www.visitliverpool.com/explore-the-city/top-spots/lark-lane

In fact as much as I like to take the piss there's loads of cool stuff to do and places to see in the 'pewl. You just wouldn't want to live there. Lots of crime and poverty and the schools are really bad apparently. 

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8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I have to confess that, although my Beatledom has waned somewhat with time, I'd certainly do the Magical Mystery Tour if I was in Liverpool for more than a day. I am curious about connecting the topography with the songs/fab four, and at the end of the day it only lasts tour hours: two hours and you see Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane, their houses, the Cavern and a few other things - I have spent worse two hours.  

Not first on my itinerary then like the aforementioned Speke Hall but something I would do given a two-three day window.

See part of what was great about The Beatles for me was that they were just lads and a consequence of that is that the places in their formative past aren't really likely to be that magical to me.  If The Cavern was still THE Cavern I'd be well up for it...but like, I dunno, Ringos house in Dingle, its just gonna be like a council estate innit, like an episode of Bread or something.  Same with The Ripper tours, if I could get in a time machine and go back to those times and have a look at em as they were I'd be first in line but there's fuck all of em left.  Most of em I think are pretty much unrecognisable.  The buildings are mostly gone, they don't serve the same function as they did, they are not socially the same places, its just a big nothing.

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1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

See part of what was great about The Beatles for me was that they were just lads and a consequence of that is that the places in their formative past aren't really likely to be that magical to me.  If The Cavern was still THE Cavern I'd be well up for it...but like, I dunno, Ringos house in Dingle, its just gonna be like a council estate innit, like an episode of Bread or something.  Same with The Ripper tours, if I could get in a time machine and go back to those times and have a look at em as they were I'd be first in line but there's fuck all of em left.  Most of em I think are pretty much unrecognisable.  The buildings are mostly gone, they don't serve the same function as they did, they are not socially the same places, its just a big nothing.

As far as I'm aware most of the Beatles locations have not changed much except the Cavern which was rebuilt.

The destruction of the east end has more to do with London's horrible modernistic rebuilding. Isn't it all Canary Wharf and glass and hideous shopping centres now? There are only about two eel, pie and mash shops left in the whole of London.

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You can reduce anything with cynicism given the opportunity?

Rome's Colosseum? Just a stadium made out of brick. 

Great Wall of China? Just a wall, innit?

Brandenburg Gate? Just an arch with a chariot on top.

Versailles? Just a gaudy old house that some fat king once lived in.

 

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17 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You can reduce anything with cynicism given the opportunity?

Rome's Colosseum? Just a stadium made out of brick. 

Great Wall of China? Just a wall, innit?

Brandenburg Gate? Just an arch with a chariot on top.

Versailles? Just a gaudy old house that some fat king once lived in.

 

Come on, surely you must understand what I'm getting at, those things you've listed are massively historic places with a rich history...there's a world of difference between that, especially for someone thats lived his whole life in England, and a cramped 3 bed semi in Liverpool.  Or Strawberry Fields, which if I'm not mistaken is like...what, a little park?  Not the park of Regents but rather just a little park close to where John Lennon lived under duress for the first 15 years of his life.  And again, The Cavern, you're not following the footsteps of anyone, its not the same place.  Its all a big con I reckon.  I'll tell you an interesting Beatles location, Abbey Road studios, now that would be cool...cuz its still there, the big room where all the magic happened, its still there, largely like it was back in the day.  But like, the houses they grew up in, I dunno, I suppose if you're from abroad I could see the attraction, like for a Japanese person or whatever, cuz the locales are kinda far removed from what you might have experienced.

Even somewhere like the Hendrix place, the Hendrix and Handel thing, has more of a romantic thing for me because its perserved like the way Hendrix had it, it has some kind of a 60s bohemian nutters abode type charm to it (ain't even been there as it happens) but like...the house where John grew up, preserved as it was when he was 15...its just gonna be a little tiny bedroom isn't it?  Its not gonna be particularly interestingly furnished or...anything. 

John Lennons gaff in the Dakota, now that'd be interesting.  The other gaff he had in Epsom, if it was at all preserved like the way he had it, that'd be interesting. 

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5 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Come on, surely you must understand what I'm getting at, those things you've listed are massively historic places with a rich history...there's a world of difference between that, especially for someone thats lived his whole life in England, and a cramped 3 bed semi in Liverpool.  Or Strawberry Fields, which if I'm not mistaken is like...what, a little park?  Not the park of Regents but rather just a little park close to where John Lennon lived under duress for the first 15 years of his life.  And again, The Cavern, you're not following the footsteps of anyone, its not the same place.  Its all a big con I reckon.  I'll tell you an interesting Beatles location, Abbey Road studios, now that would be cool...cuz its still there, the big room where all the magic happened, its still there, largely like it was back in the day.  But like, the houses they grew up in, I dunno, I suppose if you're from abroad I could see the attraction, like for a Japanese person or whatever, cuz the locales are kinda far removed from what you might expect. 

Even somewhere like the Hendrix place, the Hendrix and Handel thing, has more of a romantic thing for me because its perserved like the way Hendrix had it, it has some kind of a 60s bohemian nutters abode type charm to it (ain't even been there as it happens) but like...the house where John grew up, preserved as it was when he was 15...its just gonna be a little tiny bedroom isn't it?  Its not gonna be particularly interestingly furnished or...anything. 

John Lennons gaff in the Dakota, now that'd be interesting.  The other gaff he had in Epsom, if it was at all preserved like the way he had it, that'd be interesting. 

Have you never been to Abbey Rd? It is not far from Lord's actually. I visited soon after George Harrison died and there were all these wreaths and memorials outside. 

It isn't as if Aunt Mimi's ghost is going to come out of Menlove Ave and force feed you a pan of watery scouse, or that you will be required to use the outside crapper at Forthlin Rd! I suspect most tourists' reactions are, ''just think, there is where he grew up - that is pretty cool (these are Americans)'' and then you move swiftly on to the next location.

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Have you never been to Abbey Rd? It is not far from Lord's actually. I visited soon after George Harrison died and there were all these wreaths and memorials outside. 

I've walked by a million times, never been inside though.

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It isn't as if Aunt Mimi's ghost is going to come out of Menlove Ave and force feed you a pan of watery scouse, or that you will be required to use the outside crapper at Forthlin Rd! I suspect most tourists' reactions are, ''just think, there is where he grew up - that is pretty cool (these are Americans)'' and then you move swiftly on to the next location.

Maybe  its something to do with the fact that I grew up in a house like that.  Not really very romantic after that...or particularly interesting. 

Edited by Len Cnut
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I am a huge Beatles fan and don't find it interesting, either. I certainly wouldn't travel to Liverpool because of it. I am happy to hear the music, I am not interested in the musicians or where they used to live. But I am also an unordthodox tourist in general, I'll easily skip tourist attractions to hang out in a bar with the locals. 

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Don't forget, the Beatles themselves used and commemorated Liverpool in their songs, 'Strawberry Fields', 'Penny Hill'. To someone who hasn't visited these localities these titles are abstractions, poetic allusion, distanced exotica (in the same way ''Memphis, Tennessee'' is for somebody British). The abstraction is removed when you realise they represent actual topography - ''Penny Lane'' is actually very precise and descriptive whereas ''Strawberry Fields'' is more subjective - more flowery. Penny lane itself, 

penny-lane.jpg

img_0717.jpg

Looks shite haha. They still have the barber shop though. 

But to someone from Tokyo or LA this looks quintessential ''northern British'', like how it is portrayed in the ''Free as a Bird'' music promo from 1995 - or for a non-Beatles reference, Coronation Street (which is big in Canada and Australia by all accounts). The obligatory chippy, red-brick terraced housing, etc etc.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I am a huge Beatles fan and don't find it interesting, either. I certainly wouldn't travel to Liverpool because of it. I am happy to hear the music, I am not interested in the musicians or where they used to live. But I am also an unordthodox tourist in general, I'll easily skip tourist attractions to hang out in a bar with the locals. 

I am sure you have been sniffing around the lane where Dizzy Reed shat his trews after a heavy drinking session anno domini 1983?

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Just now, DieselDaisy said:

I am sure you have been sniffing around the lane where Dizzy Reed shat his trews after a heavy drinking session anno domini 1983?

But now we are talking about Guns N' Fuckin' Roses. 

But seriously, no, I haven't really done much GN'R sightseeing while in LA. Nor have I taken any of the "celebrity tours" (barf!!) or visited any of the film studios. Tourists go dither, I go hither.

On topic, since we have sort of travelled to California now. Everybody seem to be gashing over San Diego here. It's nice, doubtlessly, but I prefer San Francisco or even Los Angeles to San Diego. 

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As I said, the Beatles stuff wouldn't be first on my list and I would seek out older and more historic localities in Liverpool but if I had three days in the city, I could see myself seeing it on the third day - why wouldn't I? At a minimum I would've ticked it off. Something to say whenever 'Penny Lane' comes on the radio: ''I have been there''. It isn't as if Liverpool is crammed with things to do. Truthfully you are probably going to want to hit the pub once you've seen the Liver Birds. 

It would be different if you could visit the Brookie set. 

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I am not one to go to a foreign city just to see where a musician lived or died or whatever. But if I'm there anyway, and I find it interesting, I will go there because it can only add to the experience.

In Paris I walked past the apartment where Jimbo died... but it's one street away from Place des Vosges where I went to check the architecture and hang out, so it's no trouble walking past the apartment.

Same thing with The Dakota Hotel... you probably walk past it anyway if you are visiting Strawberry Fields in Central Park, so why not check it out. Plus it's a cool building anyway.

I even walked past Beethoven's place in Vienna because it's in the center anyway and I wanted to see where he lived.

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In Paris I walked past the apartment where Jimbo died... but it's one street away from Place des Vosges where I went to check the architecture and hang out, so it's no trouble walking past the apartment.

I didn't walk past the apartment but I recognised the name of the road when I was in Paris, walked past it.  Went to the Pere LaChaise.

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19 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I didn't walk past the apartment but I recognised the name of the road when I was in Paris, walked past it.  Went to the Pere LaChaise.

There's nothing to see in that street anyway... it's just an apartment like any other apartment in the center of Paris. Standing at the spot where Lennon died was more surreal, or visiting the Anne Frank House and walking up the stairs to the secret house and seeing the pictures of movie stars she hung up her wall in her bedroom 70 years ago.

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Just now, EvanG said:

There's nothing to see in that street anyway... it's just an apartment like any other apartment in the center of Paris. Standing at the spot where Lennon died was more surreal, or visiting the Anne Frank House and walking up the stairs to the secret house and seeing the pictures of movie stars she hung up her wall in her bedroom 70 years ago.

Do you remember what movie stars they were?

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3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Do you remember what movie stars they were?

No, and I probably didn't recognize them anyway. 

But a quick google search says she had pictures of the following:

Ray Milland, Greta Garbo, Norma Shearer, Ginger Rogers, Lily Bouwmeester, Heinz Rühmann.

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor which movie stars had anne frank pictures of in her room

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm actually considering going to the Lake District on the strength of this thread over the weekend, been looking into it, the fucking hotels are like...miles away from the actual place, how you supposed to get there, I ain't driving, fuck that.  To be honest, shameful moment, I didn't even properly know what the lake district was, I thought it was fuckin' one place of particular scenic beauty but apparently its, as the name suggests, a whole area with a fuckload of lakes and scenic beauty.  How'd you know which one to go to etc.  The idea of getting a fuckin' hotel 20 miles outside the actual place I'm looking to visit seems a bit of a pain in the arse. 

I got the bug to go somewhere in England this week now, better act on it or I'll just put the shit off forever.  York seemed an idea but like, again, its difficult visiting a place you dunno fuck all about, how'd you know what to visit?  Fuck York, sounds a bit dud actually.  The lake district looks alright though, all mountainey or hilly or whatever. 

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51 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I'm actually considering going to the Lake District on the strength of this thread over the weekend, been looking into it, the fucking hotels are like...miles away from the actual place, how you supposed to get there, I ain't driving, fuck that.  To be honest, shameful moment, I didn't even properly know what the lake district was, I thought it was fuckin' one place of particular scenic beauty but apparently its, as the name suggests, a whole area with a fuckload of lakes and scenic beauty.  How'd you know which one to go to etc.  The idea of getting a fuckin' hotel 20 miles outside the actual place I'm looking to visit seems a bit of a pain in the arse. 

I got the bug to go somewhere in England this week now, better act on it or I'll just put the shit off forever.  York seemed an idea but like, again, its difficult visiting a place you dunno fuck all about, how'd you know what to visit?  Fuck York, sounds a bit dud actually.  The lake district looks alright though, all mountainey or hilly or whatever. 

Have you seen the weather right now? Lakes at this time of year? Bring some wellies!!

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57 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I'm actually considering going to the Lake District on the strength of this thread over the weekend, been looking into it, the fucking hotels are like...miles away from the actual place, how you supposed to get there, I ain't driving, fuck that.  To be honest, shameful moment, I didn't even properly know what the lake district was, I thought it was fuckin' one place of particular scenic beauty but apparently its, as the name suggests, a whole area with a fuckload of lakes and scenic beauty.  How'd you know which one to go to etc.  The idea of getting a fuckin' hotel 20 miles outside the actual place I'm looking to visit seems a bit of a pain in the arse. 

I got the bug to go somewhere in England this week now, better act on it or I'll just put the shit off forever.  York seemed an idea but like, again, its difficult visiting a place you dunno fuck all about, how'd you know what to visit?  Fuck York, sounds a bit dud actually.  The lake district looks alright though, all mountainey or hilly or whatever. 

Have you considered Middlesbrough? :lol: 

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