Ex-Guns N' Roses Manager Has Theory About Why There Aren't More GNR Albums

[2020_Intensions]

31 minutes ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

I'm saying its laughable that people think he contributed so much to gnr's music or success. 

But if you can't tell already,  he is my least favorite. 

I mean he literally wrote a majority of GnR's songs? lol

[Rovim]

it's not going to be the same without Izzy but are we really going to pretend a song Axl and Slash potentially worked on together and with Duff isn't going to work as a great Guns song cause some manager from 40 years ago thinks Izzy was important too? It might not have that rock n' roll Stones thing which was a big thing, Izzy wrote Nightrain but a new record could still contain enough classic elements or just be a great record like Chinese was.

[RussTCB]

Even if Izzys one and only contribution to GNR was "he lost his mind today...he left it out back on the highway...I65!", he would still mean a shit load to me. 

[WhazUp]

2 hours ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

I'm saying its laughable that people think he contributed so much to gnr's music or success. 

 

I mean, those people wouldn't be wrong lol have you seen the writing and co-writing credits of Izzy in GNR?

 

If you don't personally like him, his solo albums or his contributions, that is cool of course.  However nobody can deny that his contributions to GNR were massive and a huge reason why they were huge in the first place - that is just undebatable when you look at the songs he was a part of and what he brought to that combo of 5

Edited February 13, 2020 by WhazUp

[Politania]

2 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Even if Izzys one and only contribution to GNR was "he lost his mind today...he left it out back on the highway...I65!", he would still mean a shit load to me. 

out of likes

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, Ratbrain said:

Why didn't Izzy join VR when he had the chance? Would that have sounded GNR?

he didn't want to deal with another lead singer. He wanted to share all vocal duties with Duff. I guess he was careful for a reason cause it did sour eventually. Izzy avoids that shit at all cost sometimes even the possibility of it.

[Powderfinger]

3 hours ago, gnfnrs1972 said:

I'm saying its laughable that people think he contributed so much to gnr's music or success. 

But if you can't tell already,  he is my least favorite. 

It’s laughable that you don’t know how much he contributed to Appetite, Lies & UYI.... Just look at the songwriting credits....

 

[jacdaniel]

No doubt Izzy is a great songwriter. But Slash and Duff have released lots of albums without him. Whether they’re any good or not is subjective. 
 

GNR don’t release music because of Axl. None of us fully understand why but that’s just how it is. 
 

So Vicky is basically just incorrect. If Izzy was in the band, no doubt he’d write some good songs. But they wouldn’t be released anyways. 

[Sydney Fan]

I personally think izzy has a tape with riffs, and ideas with a masking tape that says "GNR ONLY" should he ever get the call. 

[Gold top 78]

I would like to see Izzy back and writing songs with GNR but Vicky is wrong. The reason we’ve not had an album or look like getting one is because of Axl and the way he does things. Even if Izzy was in the band we’d still be having the same discussions about a new album because at the end of the day the final decision lies with Axl. And there would be even more frustration among the forum in knowing there’s songs with Izzy’s input and potentially nothing getting released. 

[Politania]

21 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

I personally think izzy has a tape with riffs, and ideas with a masking tape that says "GNR ONLY" should he ever get the call. 

or tape that says "GNR ONLY"- they should never ever call for them lol

[SoulMonster]

I don't care what Hamilton says. She managed (well, even that is disputed) the band for a very short period of time in early 1986 and since then she has only had a loose connection to Slash. She is about as informed about the inner working of the band as you and me.

As for whether Izzy is required as a song-writer: He is definitely a gifted song-writer and the band would benefit from him, but I think it is proven through the track records of Axl, Slash and Duff, that they can write good songs, too, especially together. 

As for whether Izzy is important to the dynamics of the band when it comes to releasing albums: No. At least not if we look back at the process of releasing the UYIs. At that time Izzy was more or less absent and Slash had to almost drag songs out of him. The rest of the band had to do everything. And they managed, barely. So I would say they got the records out despite Izzy, more than because of Izzy.

Of course things could be very different now in 2020 - we don't know, but let's not romanticize his importance.

To Hamilton's credit, things were different when she knew the band (in 1986), with Izzy being a much more active and vocal band member than what he became in 1989 after the touring in '87-'88.

[DieselDaisy]

The last time GN'R released any new material was 1991 with Stradlin. Since then they have released solo albums, Rose's Chinese turkey, and bits and bobs, some good, some not so, yet the hypothesis that Duff, Slash and Rose can write something of quality post-Stradlin is thus far unproven and remains just that: a hypothesis. 

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The last time GN'R released any new material was 1991 with Stradlin. Since then they have released solo albums, Rose's Chinese turkey, and bits and bobs, some good, some not so, yet the hypothesis that Duff, Slash and Rose can write something of quality post-Stradlin is thus far unproven and remains just that: a hypothesis. 

Subjective nonsense. I happen to think that Chinese Democracy and the leaked tracks contain great songs indicative that Axl, together with others, can write brilliant music (Madagascar, There Was A Time, Hard School, Better, State of Grace, etc). There are also a few okay songs in Slash's solo catalogue. Besides, it is entirely arbitrary to disregard all the evidence that these guys can write great songs from before Izzy left, like Locomotive, Estranged, It's So Easy, etc, as if the mere presence of Izzy rubbed off on Slash, Duff and Axl like dust from a magical fairy, and now, with him gone, the same guys are somehow lost in darkness 

[DieselDaisy]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Subjective nonsense. I happen to think that Chinese Democracy and the leaked tracks contain great songs indicative that Axl, together with others, can write brilliant music (Madagascar, There Was A Time, Hard School, Better, State of Grace, etc). There are also a few okay songs in Slash's solo catalogue. Besides, it is entirely arbitrary to disregard all the evidence that these guys can write great songs from before Izzy left, like Locomotive, Estranged, It's So Easy, etc, as if the mere presence of Izzy rubbed off on Slash, Duff and Axl like dust from a magical fairy, and now, with him gone, the same guys are somehow lost in darkness 

There are no examples of a Guns N' Roses - Chinese might be many things but it certainly isn't Guns N' Roses - writing and releasing songs without Izzy Stradlin's inclusion in the band. Demonstrable fact.

You can tell me I was wrong when you have your new album in your hands written by Messrs Rose, Hudson and McKagan, but until then...

[SoulMonster]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

There are no examples of a Guns N' Roses - Chinese might be many things but it certainly isn't Guns N' Roses - writing and releasing songs without Izzy Stradlin's inclusion in the band. Demonstrable fact.

You can tell me I was wrong when you have your new album in your hands written by Messrs Rose, Hudson and McKagan, but until then...

Even if I accepted your nonsensical "fact" that Chinese Democracy wasn't released by Guns N' Roses, it would still contain great songs written by Axl (and others) without Izzy, proving that Izzy isn't needed. And, as I said, further evidence to that conclusion is that Slash has also written some good tunes without Izzy and that they have all done it in various constellations previously.

Your hypothesis that any good song written by any of these tree, with others or alone, only came to be because Izzy happened to be a band mate of them at the time, is ludicrous, to put it mildly.

I am now amusingly imagining Axl working on November Rain back in 1985, furiously going over ideas and chords and rejecting them as quickly when it dawned on him they couldn't possibly live up to his pal's Izzy's tough expectations. Then, in 1990, taking the song to Slash for his lead track additions and then tossing out Slash's first 10 attempts because they simply wasn't up to Izzy's demanding standards. Then, after a long time of working with Izzy as their muse, Axl and Slash finally ended up with the version of November Rain found on UYI. And so, with Izzy's looming presence of quality and expectations gone, they started to release shit music. Hilarious.

Edited February 13, 2020 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Even if I accepted your nonsensical "fact" that Chinese Democracy wasn't released by Guns N' Roses, it would still contain great songs written by Axl (and others) without Izzy, proving that Izzy isn't needed. And, as I said, further evidence to that conclusion is that Slash has also written some good tunes without Izzy and that they have all done it in various constellations previously.

Your hypothesis that any good song written by any of these tree, with others or alone, only came to be because Izzy happened to be a band mate of them at the time, is ludicrous, to put it mildly.

I concede Slash has written some great songs without Izzy however none of these are ''Guns N' Roses'' songs. There is a distinction to be made between each one of these members writing songs alone for their solo project and a ''Guns N' Roses song''. 

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I am now amusingly imagining Axl working on November Rain back in 1985, furiously going over ideas and chords and rejecting them as quickly when it dawned on his they couldn't possibly live up to Izzy's tough expectations. Then taking the song to Slash for his lead track additions and then tossing out Slash's first 10 attempts because they simply wasn't up to Izzy's standards, then, after a long time of working with Izzy as their muse, they finally ended up with the version of November Rain found on UYI. And then, with Izzy's looming presence of quality and expectations gone, they started to release shit music. Hilarious.

Maybe something similar to what you described occurred. Rose has not exactly done much since Stradlin to prove that I am incorrect in the assumption that Rose needs Izzy. 

GN'R are a busted flush without Izzy Stradlin.

[DieselDaisy]

It is this evident and clear,

When Izzy Stradlin was in the band, that is to say 1985 to 1991, Guns N' Roses wrote and released circa 50 songs.

Since Izzy left, that is to say 1992-present, Guns have wrote and released a grande total of bugger all.

 

[El Guapo]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is this evident and clear,

When Izzy Stradlin was in the band, that is to say 1985 to 1991, Guns N' Roses wrote and released circa 50 songs.

Since Izzy left, that is to say 1992-present, Guns have wrote and released a grande total of bugger all.

 

That's just how it is.

[SoulMonster]

10 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is this evident and clear,

When Izzy Stradlin was in the band, that is to say 1985 to 1991, Guns N' Roses wrote and released circa 50 songs.

Since Izzy left, that is to say 1992-present, Guns have wrote and released a grande total of bugger all.

I don't think anyone here is denying the fact that Guns N' Roses was more productive when Izzy was in the band than after  [And I note that you are now shifting the goalposts from the subjective field of quality to the objective field of quantity.]

But claiming that this came down to Izzy's presence alone, and not a myriad of other explanations, is something I am sure many here would disagree with. I certainly would. 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

myriad of other explanations

Well ginger bollocks being lazy and uncreative is another explanation, but my point still stands that a Duff/Slash/Axl GN'R album is merely a ''hypothetical album'' with currently no basis in fact.  

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well ginger bollocks being lazy and uncreative is another explanation, but my point still stands that a Duff/Slash/Axl GN'R album is merely a ''hypothetical album'' with currently no basis in fact.  

Yes, Axl is of course the main impediment to releasing albums quickly. Slash is certainly in favor of speedy processes, and likely Duff too. So then it is interesting that even when Izzy was in the band, he wasn't able to strong-arm or cosy-talk Axl into getting the vocals down quicker. In fact, he complained himself about being powerless in that regard and this changing dynamics between him and Axl is one of the reasons he decided to quit. He became powerless in a band he helped to establish. So in short, the idea that all good GN'R songs were either written by Izzy or to his demanding standards, is nothing but an amusing but subjective opinion; and that Izzy is essential to even getting GN'R albums released, is demonstrably false because both Chinese Democracy and The Spaghetti Incident were released after he left (and we could also list Live Era, Best of, and the re-issue of Appetite).

And now you have moved the goalpst even further, to "a Duff/Slash/Axl GN'R album is merely a ''hypothetical album'", which is undoubtedly true as long as it happened been released yet. Well done there! 

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

True or not- lazy observation from Hamilton. Any Izzy-penned songs would be years (and years and years) away from release at this point. Have to push the “second half of Chinese” album(s) through first. IMHO rightly or wrongly it’s pretty clear Axl views Guns as this ongoing saga that must tell a specific story from the first chords of Appetite to wherever they end up. Is what it is...

[DieselDaisy]

31 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The Spaghetti Incident were released after he left (and we could also list Live Era, Best of, and the re-issue of Appetite).

I normally don't use ballheads but,

[default_]

2 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

As for whether Izzy is important to the dynamics of the band when it comes to releasing albums: No. At least not if we look back at the process of releasing the UYIs. At that time Izzy was more or less absent and Slash had to almost drag songs out of him. The rest of the band had to do everything. And they managed, barely. So I would say they got the records out despite Izzy, more than because of Izzy.

Well, even if Izzy wasnt there for the production of the records, he still helped to writte most of the UYI songs, after they had the goods, it was easy to just go and produce them. Would UYIs be half as good had Izzy left straight after the release of Lies and didnt help on the writting for UYIs?

Edited February 13, 2020 by default_