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What the fuck do they know? If I'm looking for advice from a rock band on how viruses are transmitted I will ask Queen thank you very much.

The mother of my aunt just died from covid19 in the Netherlands. No funeral and she can't go there. This situation is so fucked up.

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16 minutes ago, gt72 said:

I’m thinking along the same lines of you I’ve been pretty much a hermit except for going for a run early every day and occasional trips to store so I’m being cautious.My buddy thinks this is another “flu” he turned me on to some of this doctors claims so I was just curious as to what others thought.

I think most of these studies that argue that COVID-19 is no worse than the flu miss the obvious facts on the ground.  If it were just the flu doctors in Italy wouldn't be performing triage that results in people dying due to a lack of resources of healthcare capacity.  They have no explanation for that. 

They also don't have an answer for studies just released about the striking number of excess deaths being noted.  Send your friend this article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/04/27/covid-19-death-toll-undercounted/?arc404=true

There are way more people dying than the seasonal average if we compare to previous years:

5ea710f999137_Screenshot2020-04-2713_05_06.png.8aca74602e464f158f06c52d38fa6d21.png

There was a notable increase in the number of deaths in the US that weren't attributed to COVID-19.  As officials in New York and other places have noted, in the first six to eight weeks of the epidemic only people dying with a confirmed case of COVID-19 were being counted in the tally.  That means anyone dying before they were tested at a hospital, nursing home, or at home were not included in the totals for COVID-19 attributed deaths. It is crazy to me that some of these studies argue that the number of infected is underreported (which is certainly true) but make no mention of the fact that the number of people dying is also being substantially underreported (which is also true).  Determining an accurate CFR by only looking at one side is absurd.  

You also have to figure that it's probably even worse than what this study might suggest.  Due to the lock downs, think of all the people not dying due to on-the job work accidents, car accidents, crime and homicide, etc.  Granted, there were likely increases in deaths related to suicide and from those who did not seek treatment for something they later died from due to the lock down and scarcity of healthcare resources.  I'm assuming here since I have no way of knowing, but I would think those dying from suicide and self-deprived medical treatment does not balance out the number of people saved from staying at home. 

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10 minutes ago, downzy said:

I think most of these studies that argue that COVID-19 is no worse than the flu miss the obvious facts on the ground.  If it were just the flu doctors in Italy wouldn't be performing triage that results in people dying due to a lack of resources of healthcare capacity.  They have no explanation for that. 

They also don't have an answer for studies just released about the striking number of excess deaths being noted.  Send your friend this article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/04/27/covid-19-death-toll-undercounted/?arc404=true

There are way more people dying than the seasonal average if we compare to previous years:

5ea710f999137_Screenshot2020-04-2713_05_06.png.8aca74602e464f158f06c52d38fa6d21.png

There was a notable increase in the number of deaths in the US that weren't attributed to COVID-19.  As officials in New York and other places have noted, in the first six to eight weeks of the epidemic only people dying with a confirmed case of COVID-19 were being counted in the tally.  That means anyone dying before they were tested at a hospital, nursing home, or at home were not included in the totals for COVID-19 attributed deaths. It is crazy to me that some of these studies argue that the number of infected is underreported (which is certainly true) but make no mention of the fact that the number of people dying is also being substantially underreported (which is also true).  Determining an accurate CFR by only looking at one side is absurd.  

You also have to figure that it's probably even worse than what this study might suggest.  Due to the lock downs, think of all the people not dying due to on-the job work accidents, car accidents, crime and homicide, etc.  Granted, there were likely increases in deaths related to suicide and from those who did not seek treatment for something they later died from due to the lock down and scarcity of healthcare resources.  I'm assuming here since I have no way of knowing, but I would think those dying from suicide and self-deprived medical treatment does not balance out the number of people saved from staying at home. 

Thanks for the link I will send it to him.

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2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Starting to think anti-Trumpism is as much of a disease as Corona. 

Criticising someone who is blatantly a complete idiot (and so arrogant as to be completely incapable of acknowledging, much less addressing his own failures) is a bad thing?

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1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

I might get one of those Make America Great caps just to annoy lefties haha.

Its hilarious that you think lefties are the only ones opposed to that failure of a POTUS. :lol:

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oh man am I getting bloody tired of this situation.

it's been months since I seen my mother, brother and sister. all time that is lost.

only good thing about this is I have plenty of time to build my model ship. Crazy how I didn't find time in the last 10 years to place a couple of plank rows, and since lockdown I've more than doubled progress.

one would get sick just from the isolation. the air feels like syrup, I feel like I'm a prisoner in a golden cage.

Yes, I know that many, many people are much worse off than me. I am fully aware of that. But I'm still complaining, so what? I have the right to complain, I need to vent some spleen.

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There's some good stuff going on with all of us staying at home.  Air and water pollution has improved.  I'm sure some eating habits have improved and some stress levels have dropped.  Probably less car accidents.  More people are starting to veggie garden.  Neighborhoods are starting to get to know each other and look out for each other.

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6 minutes ago, action said:

oh man am I getting bloody tired of this situation.

it's been months since I seen my mother, brother and sister. 

Well you are Belgian. Are they all the same person? :P:lol: 

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6 hours ago, soon said:

1- Opening everything up is antithetical to hoping for the best.

2- where do you get your news from? 

I do not watch the news. All of the major networks have their own agendas. They skew facts and statistics to support their own narrative. 

Instead I look for medical publications, look at the numbers, and base my own conclusions. Critical thought is a skill that is no longer present in the United States. I think it would be better for everyone to stop paying attention to CNN and Fox, do a little unbiased research of their own, and form their own opinions on the subject. 

------

On another subject, it is ridiculous to blame Donald Trump for the coronavirus. People here attack him like he caused the pandemic itself. 

American Politics is a complex subject. Trump does not have enough power to put in regulations to stop the spread completely. Given the amount of power he has, I think his response was as good as any other president could do. States rights are real. It is not as if Donald Trump can tell the entire country to shut down. There is a political process.

And I didn't vote for him. This is a take from someone who did not vote for Trump and will not vote for him in 2020. 

The pandemic transcends politics. It doesn't care if you are a Democrat or Republician. We would have had the same problem if Obama was in office right now.

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28 minutes ago, arnold layne said:

I do not watch the news. All of the major networks have their own agendas. They skew facts and statistics to support their own narrative. 

Instead I look for medical publications, look at the numbers, and base my own conclusions. Critical thought is a skill that is no longer present in the United States. I think it would be better for everyone to stop paying attention to CNN and Fox, do a little unbiased research of their own, and form their own opinions on the subject. 

Yes, Fox and CNN are trash. There are many news outlets that arent 24/7 network TV outlets, though. In fact, most news outlets are not that.

Im a good researcher too and am knee deep in direct sources at any given time, but only in areas that I am versed in. And whereas public health is familiar, medicine and virology are not areas that Im familiar with. So I lean heavily on quality reporting and journalism from trustworthy outlets or wires. Heck, I wouldnt even know what to research further half the time if it werent for news wires pointing me to the trail.

Outsmarting the worlds journalist class is not on my bucket list. Imo the critical thinking bit comes into play when curating ones news sources, not by rejecting all news sources.

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Gov Abbott of Texas spoke today.

On Friday, May 1 the stay at home is being lifted. They still say keep social distancing, but masks are optional. Yeah, I'm wearing mine for a long time to come.

Restaurants can open but only 25% capacity. I think some places will have some kind of shield between customers and cashiers. I hope the wait staff wears gloves and masks, but who knows?

Movies and malls can open but also 25 % thing. 

No hair or nail salons opening yet due to the hair cutter standing too close to the customer. I hope these can open soon, I look like a crazy person! lol

I honestly, don't think I'm going to the movies or the mall for a while. The rest of the world is still fighting this virus as we are and people are still getting it and some are still dying.

I did hear today that some patients are being given heartburn medicines to combat the virus. If this works how amazing would that be? I take a heartburn pill everyday anyone.

I do hope it works on the patients and the doctors find a cure and a vaccine soon.

It would be cool if we could see GNR one more time 

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19 minutes ago, soon said:

Yes, Fox and CNN are trash. There are many news outlets that arent 24/7 network TV outlets, though. In fact, most news outlets are not that.

Im a good researcher too and am knee deep in direct sources at any given time, but only in areas that I am versed in. And whereas public health is familiar, medicine and virology are not areas that Im familiar with. So I lean heavily on quality reporting and journalism from trustworthy outlets or wires. Heck, I wouldnt even know what to research further half the time if it werent for news wires pointing me to the trail.

Outsmarting the worlds journalist class is not on my bucket list. Imo the critical thinking bit comes into play when curating ones news sources, not by rejecting all news sources.

I swear CNN is the worse. Last night that Don guy was talking about the workers who cut and package our meat being without masks and sneezing and coughing when working. I was like son of a bitch, do we really need to know this and if it's true, why isn't anyone doing anything about it. If people start worrying about what they're eating, more people will go insane.

I feel they just add more bad mojo everytime they tell you something. What will they talk about once this virus is cured or there's a vaccine? So sick of all these teachers coming out of the woodwork telling you how they should do things. If you're so damn smart why aren't you working on a cure?

Where do they find these people? And the students. Should we listen to them too?

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9 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Trump says this is white. Media and lefties say its black

If Trump thought it was black he'd probably have tried to evict it by now.

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43 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

I swear CNN is the worse. Last night that Don guy was talking about the workers who cut and package our meat being without masks and sneezing and coughing when working. I was like son of a bitch, do we really need to know this and if it's true, why isn't anyone doing anything about it. If people start worrying about what they're eating, more people will go insane.

I feel they just add more bad mojo everytime they tell you something. What will they talk about once this virus is cured or there's a vaccine? So sick of all these teachers coming out of the woodwork telling you how they should do things. If you're so damn smart why aren't you working on a cure?

Where do they find these people? And the students. Should we listen to them too?

Oh, my silly bean, just don’t watch it then! haha 

Dons my fav person on that dumpster fire! Lol. He’s pretty good compared to many of them. ms O’Brien can read me all the news she wants too :wub::lol:

im glad they brought to light about the meat processing coughing issue. That’s the news people’s job. Others are supposed to act on the news, they just report it.

im not sure what students you are referring to, sorry?

you should check out this news from Canada, CBC.ca You might like it better!

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

Trump says this is white. Media and lefties say its black

There’s no monolithic block called “the media.” 

By “the media” you and Trump actually mean the mainstream tv news channels.

and no, lefties and mainstream news channels do not share an analysis on most things. Not even close. It’s so sad that he’s got you so deeply confused about these things. Lefties don’t even consume that type of news. But moderates and liberals do.

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35 minutes ago, soon said:

There’s no monolithic block called “the media.” 

By “the media” you and Trump actually mean the mainstream tv news channels.

and no, lefties and mainstream news channels do not share an analysis on most things. Not even close. It’s so sad that he’s got you so deeply confused about these things. Lefties don’t even consume that type of news. But moderates and liberals do.

It's so sad that you believe this bullshit.

 

Again if Trump says is right the media says it's left.

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1 minute ago, Gibsonfender2323 said:

It's so sad that you believe this bullshit.

 

Again if Trump says is right the media says it's left.

What did I say thats bullshit? :lol:

 

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Georgia and Texas are open and / or opening. Here in Michigan, our stay at home order is currently extended until May 15th. We'll see what happens then. 

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12 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Georgia and Texas are open and / or opening. Here in Michigan, our stay at home order is currently extended until May 15th. We'll see what happens then. 

Georgia is reopening but our shelter in place order doesn't actually end until the 30th. Lots of restaurants refused to reopen yet though

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Just now, BlueJean Baby said:

Georgia is reopening but our shelter in place order doesn't actually end until the 30th. Lots of restaurants refused to reopen yet though

Oh, well that's good to hear. 

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4 hours ago, arnold layne said:

it is ridiculous to blame Donald Trump for the coronavirus

Yes it's ridiculous to blame Donald Trump for the existence of COVID-19.  Had Hillary Clinton been president there likely still would have been a world wide pandemic.

What people can blame Donald Trump for his America's response and ill-preparedness for the outbreak within America.  He has failed both at communicating factual information and for downplaying the threat despite receiving numerous warnings from various intelligence officials several months before things took off in the US.  There likely always was going to be an outbreak in the US, but it didn't have to be as bad as it is now.  55k dead and still counting.  The US accounts for one-third of the world's confirmed cases and a quarter of the world's dead.  By any metric the US federal response to this crisis has been abysmal.  Thankfully some states have had serious leadership that has helped steer their states away from worst case projections (though some were just lucky, others were not). 

5 hours ago, arnold layne said:

Trump does not have enough power to put in regulations to stop the spread completely. Given the amount of power he has, I think his response was as good as any other president could do.

That is factually incorrect.  Take some time to review how Obama responded to the Ebola crisis.  Not the same virus of course, but you'll see a completely different response.

Trump had the power to deploy the pandemic playbook that the previous administration left him.  He chose not to do so.  He had the power not to disband the pandemic response team.  He chose to do that.  He had the power to nominate a US liaison to the WHO.  He chose not to do that.  He had the power to get US testing capacity in order.  Again, he chose not to do that.  He's also chose not to coordinate, at the federal level, procure equipment and supplies to fight the outbreak, leaving states, counties and hospitals to compete against one another.  He has chosen to turn the daily updates on the outbreak into sad and transparent re-election ploys.  He chose to build up people's hopes about drugs that weren't approved for treating the viral outbreak (leading to at least one person overdosing on one of them), chose to suggest that the outbreak would be miraculously gone by April, and now is countering his medical experts by suggesting that COVID-19 will be gone by the fall (it won't be).  

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1 hour ago, BlueJean Baby said:

Georgia is reopening but our shelter in place order doesn't actually end until the 30th. Lots of restaurants refused to reopen yet though

This is what's crazy about opening up businesses if people still don't feel it's safe to go out.  It's pointless.  

Moreover without re-opening schools, most people won't be able to go back to work without major assistance.

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