Len Cnut Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I think many perfectionists are perfectionists because they are insecure. I'm sure, just as many insecure people are often pegged perfectionists and many perfectionists are pegged insecure. At the end of the day though, to my thinking, a writer is as good as the books he writes, an inventor is as good as his inventions and a singer is as good as the songs he sings and if he don't make songs then he might as well not exist...as a singer that is. Thanks for that article by the way, it kinda cleared up some of why GnR come off as so naff to me after Appetite, Alice Coopers really nailed it with his quote about shit being perfect and how rock music isn't really like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: I'm sure, just as many insecure people are often pegged perfectionists and many perfectionists are pegged insecure. At the end of the day though, to my thinking, a writer is as good as the books he writes, an inventor is as good as his inventions and a singer is as good as the songs he sings and if he don't make songs then he might as well not exist...as a singer that is. Thanks for that article by the way, it kinda cleared up some of why GnR come off as so naff to me after Appetite, Alice Coopers really nailed it with his quote about shit being perfect and how rock music isn't really like that. but isn't Appetite one of the most refined rock albums ever made? if you agree, then how come it still worked for you? Edited March 24, 2020 by Rovim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 52 minutes ago, Rovim said: but isn't Appetite one of the most refined rock albums ever made? if you agree, then how come it still worked for you? Because it doesn’t sound like it. And also because I was a child when I got into it, when I was a child even Illusions (bits of it anyway) sounded unrefined and freewheeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Because it doesn’t sound like it. And also because I was a child when I got into it, when I was a child even Illusions (bits of it anyway) sounded unrefined and freewheeling. I think I get it but you know... I can probably give you other examples of some refined rock music that you probably know and still like but I guess it will be kinda redundant. Do you like Jimi's cover of All Along The Watchtower? nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Rovim said: I think I get it but you know... I can probably give you other examples of some refined rock music that you probably know and still like but I guess it will be kinda redundant. Do you like Jimi's cover of All Along The Watchtower? nevermind. Jimi's entire guitar playing lifespan was the same amount it took to make Chi Dem alone. See the difference between a perfectionist and a wanker yet? Less time in fact. Edited March 24, 2020 by Len Cnut 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Jimi's entire guitar playing lifespan was the same amount it took to make Chi Dem alone. See the difference between a perfectionist and a wanker yet? Less time in fact. all I see is you missing the point lol. This is what I'm trying to establish: 1. there are different reasons for why a perfectionist is a perfectionist. There are different types and there are less talented and more talented individuals with that quality. 2. It's easier for a musical genius like Jimi to be more prolific. Harder when you're more insecure and less talented. Doesn't mean you're not a perfectionist. (or not talented enough, you just overthink it so you don't move your ass when it's time) 3. not very rock n' roll to define what rock music is supposed to be or sound like. It's about reflecting your personality as an artist/band as clearly as possible which I think is why Appetite still spoke to people like yourself ("wankers") Edited March 24, 2020 by Rovim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 41 minutes ago, Rovim said: all I see is you missing the point lol. This is what I'm trying to establish: 1. there are different reasons for why a perfectionist is a perfectionist. There are different types and there are less talented and more talented individuals with that quality. 2. It's easier for a musical genius like Jimi to be more prolific. Harder when you're more insecure and less talented. Doesn't mean you're not a perfectionist. (or not talented enough, you just overthink it so you don't move your ass when it's time) 3. not very rock n' roll to define what rock music is supposed to be or sound like. It's about reflecting your personality as an artist/band as clearly as possible which I think is why Appetite still spoke to people like yourself ("wankers") Agree with the first two, 3rd ones a bit presumptuous. I’m not really in the business of working out what rock n roll is based on some kinda of high minded notions of artistic expression, I’m just saying what it is according to the facts of what it came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 8 hours ago, DurhamGirl said: I wonder if Axl is anyway 'in to it' when he sings these days or just going through the motiions, the latter I would think. Anybody who has seen them in concert lately how does he seem? Last time I saw them was 2017, but you could easily tell when Axl was trying and when he was coasting. He put effort into certain songs like Nightrain and I Feel Good, and he sounded really good on those, but he obviously could not have cared less about singing November Rain or Sweet Child for the millionth time. Some songs (like Yesterdays) seemed like they were only played so that the band could say they did a '3 hour show', and not because they actually enjoyed playing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Len Cnut said: 3rd ones a bit presumptuous. I’m not really in the business of working out what rock n roll is based on some kinda of high minded notions of artistic expression, I’m just saying what it is according to the facts of what it came from. heh point taken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Len Cnut said: But again, this is all just my thinking, its not like I know the guy, maybe you're right, maybe neither of us are right, maybe the answers somewhere in the middle. You're right, I don't know him either, I merely base my opinion on his actions because that is all I can do. If he was ''all about the money'' he must be quite unintelligent because he pissed away a lot of money through the years. And if he isn't into it, or never really was, then it doesn't make much sense to me that he worked so hard on one single record and how he is running and singing his ass off on stage for more than 3 hours every show. I've seen enough musicians on stage phoning it in and rushing through the setlist to get off stage as fast as they can. This is not my impression of Axl. Edited March 24, 2020 by EvanG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurhamGirl Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 6 hours ago, SoulMonster said: I think it is pretty clear Axl is a perfectionist when it comes to his music. Fun fact, I have written a bit about it here: https://www.a-4-d.com/t4046p120-the-history-in-their-own-words#15972 Great articles as is your website... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurhamGirl Posted March 24, 2020 Author Share Posted March 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said: Last time I saw them was 2017, but you could easily tell when Axl was trying and when he was coasting. He put effort into certain songs like Nightrain and I Feel Good, and he sounded really good on those, but he obviously could not have cared less about singing November Rain or Sweet Child for the millionth time. Some songs (like Yesterdays) seemed like they were only played so that the band could say they did a '3 hour show', and not because they actually enjoyed playing it. Sad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janrichmond Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 I really don't believe he is a perfectionist. I think he's insecure. I'm with @Len Cnut on this. No way would a perfectionist release CD. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 3 hours ago, janrichmond said: I really don't believe he is a perfectionist. I think he's insecure. I'm with @Len Cnut on this. No way would a perfectionist release CD. he has anxiety and bipolar disorder changes his mind at least 3 times a day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Fan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, janrichmond said: I really don't believe he is a perfectionist. I think he's insecure. I'm with @Len Cnut on this. No way would a perfectionist release CD. dont beleive hes a perfectionaist, not compared to what we have heard with what could have been released in 2000 and other songs that could have been released and put on CD as part of the village leaks. What was released in 08 is steps down from what could have been released in 2000. I think axl tends to second guess himself alot, or not know when a song is 'complete' or could/should be worked on more. Maybe he's worried about how 'dated' a song sounds years later when fans view his songs as a body of work. The reason why the illusions albums were completed is because of a schedule not because axl was satisfied with the material and knew when the song was finished and good in his eyes, otherwise studio time could have gone alot longer. But the songs as i hear them on the illusions albums were great, who knows what extra work could have gone into them, they were "complete" to my ears - maybe axl would think differently Edited March 25, 2020 by Sydney Fan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Fan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said: Last time I saw them was 2017, but you could easily tell when Axl was trying and when he was coasting. He put effort into certain songs like Nightrain and I Feel Good, and he sounded really good on those, but he obviously could not have cared less about singing November Rain or Sweet Child for the millionth time. Some songs (like Yesterdays) seemed like they were only played so that the band could say they did a '3 hour show', and not because they actually enjoyed playing it. Thats simple he should drop them. If as he intended in 06 when bringing BH onboard, was to release more albums to get away from the early material and have new material to form the basis of AXL's nuguns setlist he could have. But he hasn't released new material and those guys showed disinterest and left. So he has himself to blame for having to sing the old stuff. Who knows what his intentions are for the band in terms of future music. Its on him for not having interest and motivation during the 06 period. Edited March 25, 2020 by Sydney Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurhamGirl Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 Thats a very black and white opinion and human brains are most definitely not. There is always some comorbidiity with perfectionism (which he may be as this not being able to finish anything is a symptom, especially important stuff) such as anxiety which can be crippling and |Slash leaving was probably the catalyst as well as the death of his good friend from Blind Melon, his mams death etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR77 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 In my opinion Axl lost it in Rock in Rio 2001. I saw them in 1992, and I was present at the show in Rio in 2001. I was shocked with the whole band, and mainly his performance on stage . His voice was different, the outfit was strange and that didn’t sound good to me . I saw them again in 2016 am for me that was the last time. I follow them since I’m 12, saw them live at the age of 14, 23, and 40. It’s a lifetime band for me . But I can’t understand how Axl managed to change so much through the years, and for me that change started back there, Rock in Rio 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezosk Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) I believe Axl's had severe depression at some point (maybe his recluded years?) and that's the reason. He's an human being just like any of us. Once you get It you never get actually "cured", one can only "manage" it with therapy &/ medicine to manage their emotions and daily duties and that's for good. You never get to be the same again, even though in some cases you get close enough to "normal" again, although not fully. Just taking a shot though, have no actual idea. Edited March 26, 2020 by ezosk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezosk Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 I mean, he obviously had erractic behaviour before - for a number of reasons that have been discussed here - but then he was still "artistically hungry" somehow. It just got worsened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 right after the november rain video shoot if you want the exact pin point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underhardy Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 How is this a thread? Everyone knows shit changed at Rio 2011. And still, 90% of the time when he performed since then he was giving it pretty much 100%, just limiting his rasp for the long term health of his voice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 I don't think I have met anyone who people would agree was a 'perfectionist' and who's need to get things right wasn't driven by insecurity, either insecurity in regards to whether it is good enough for others, but also insecurity in regards to whether it is good enough for oneself. In my opinion that's what perfectionists are, people who are insecure on whether something is good enough. In Axl's case I think he is both driven by a need to be good enough to others, but also an inner need to be good enough for himself. And what is "perfect" isn't something people will always agree upon, especially not when it is arts. Apparently, Axl thought singing like a vampire was required at one point in Sorry, most people would disagree. That being said, I also think it is clear Axl was not happy with Chinese Democracy, and would have loved to tinker with it more, because he is a perfectionist, because he is insecure and wants it to be the magnum opus he feels is required, both to himself and to all his followers and critics. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 4 hours ago, SoulMonster said: I also think it is clear Axl was not happy with Chinese Democracy, and would have loved to tinker with it more, because he is a perfectionist, because he is insecure and wants it to be the magnum opus he feels is required, both to himself and to all his followers and critics. but Axl said he was 100% satisfied with how the album turned out musically after it was released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Just now, Rovim said: but Axl said he was 100% satisfied with how the album turned out musically after it was released. Well that's good to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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