What if 2000's line up of GN'R would be more commercial

[Arnuld]

Every year that album wasn’t released became a giant albatross around Axl’s neck. I think the re-formed GNR could have been an interesting studio and touring act in the 2000s. CD really needed to come out in 2000 or 2001. It was pretty well received in 2008 and it would have been very well received in 00-01. This would have given Axl confidence and successful tours and more releases would have followed. Probably like VR but a bit bigger. 

[Blackstar]

13 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I think that in order for the 2002 line up to keep momentum and for Axl to have a second career, he first had to keep his band together. The problem wasn't just the album not coming out, the media, the label, and the canceled tour. Even when everything was still somewhat moving along I don't think there was a real chance for Bucket to stay in Gn'R and that was his star player. Members did not get along.

have you heard the Brain interview from 2018 about Bucket and Gn'R? some interesting info like how Bucket was excited about being in Gn'R, but didn't like that there were 3 guitar players in the band so even though I feel like Robin and Bucket sounded good together, my conclusion is that Axl probably should have picked 1 lead guitar player and 1 rhythm player like Robin and Richard or Bucket and Richard so there would be less friction and a real chance for the line up to be stable. I wonder which potential line up would have brought Axl more success as Bucket image was difficult to digest for many fans and Robin was a sloppy player (even if this shit doesn't bother me personally)

here is the interview. Brain talks a little bit about Praxis but then talks about Gn'R:

 

 

Thanks! I don't remember if I've listened to this Brain interview. I remember listening to one where he said something along the lines of what you said - I'll check it out later. But yeah, it's a good point about the members not getting along. Finck said in an interview at RIR that he had rejoined only for that show and didn't know if he would continue. In mid 2001, after the tour was cancelled for the first time (with the official excuse being Buckethead's illness), there were strong rumours that Buckethead had quit and then that Axl persuaded him to return. Axl himself said in 2002 that Finck and Buckethead weren't getting along before.

Axl liked the idea of having two lead guitarists (although NuGnR wasn't originally planned as a three-guitar band, but after Robin returned he wanted both him and Buckethead) but it's not easy to work - and it couldn't work either with Slash or in NuGnR - because lead guitarists have egos.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Blackstar

[RussTCB]

1 hour ago, Mendez said:

 

"What If" and "Bullets" by Creed fucking slaps

Nah. 

 

Edit-

LOL @ "slaps" 

[Wagszilla]

51 minutes ago, Mendez said:

 

"What If" and "Bullets" by Creed fucking slaps

What if

What if

What if

What if

You deleted your post?

[Mendez]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

Nah. 

 

Edit-

LOL @ "slaps" 

IT FUCKING SLAPS

[Wagszilla]

14 minutes ago, Mendez said:

IT FUCKING SLAPS

The profession in the face

[Gordon Comstock]

16 minutes ago, Mendez said:

IT FUCKING SLAPS

 

With palms wide open?

[GNR_RNR]

11 hours ago, Sydney Fan said:

In 06 Axl looked slim, worked on his vocals and with the 06 lineup was really into releasing new music. He seemed to have a new drive.  So the question was what happened for him to suddenly lose that focus and drive for new music to eventually have ashba in the band?.

 

I think recruiting Ashba was a move from Axl to get a proven hit writer on the team.

The release of CD should have been cathartic for Axl as the album was finally out.

Should've followed it up with some fun 4/4 rock designed to get play on rock radio.

13 hours ago, Voodoochild said:

I'd like to think that Bumblefoot wouldn't let Ashba take it over that much to sound like that. But it did look like Axl was really into Ashba's shit at the time.

Yeah I think Axl was letting DJ into the writing room way more than Bumble. Can't say I blame him Bumblefoot is an amazing guitarist and a cool guy but both his songwriting ang guitar tone just doesn't gel with GNR.

It does make me sad that Bumble is now doomed to talk about GNR in every interview he does with the thousand yard stare, he was cool to the fans.

Shame he hatted being in the band.

 

[Brownstone drum]

1 hour ago, GNR_RNR said:

 

I think recruiting Ashba was a move from Axl to get a proven hit writer on the team.

The release of CD should have been cathartic for Axl as the album was finally out.

Should've followed it up with some fun 4/4 rock designed to get play on rock radio.

Yeah I think Axl was letting DJ into the writing room way more than Bumble. Can't say I blame him Bumblefoot is an amazing guitarist and a cool guy but both his songwriting ang guitar tone just doesn't gel with GNR.

It does make me sad that Bumble is now doomed to talk about GNR in every interview he does with the thousand yard stare, he was cool to the fans.

Shame he hatted being in the band.

 

I don't know if he hated being in the band, just what was going on with the lack of creativity.

Was watching an interview with him today from this year where he says he needs to be creative.....

An interesting interview

[Sydney Fan]

28 minutes ago, Brownstone drum said:

I don't know if he hated being in the band, just what was going on with the lack of creativity.

Was watching an interview with him today from this year where he says he needs to be creative.....

An interesting interview

I thought the longer CD was going to come out the more BB knew no music was going to happen and became uninterested and just left?.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Sydney Fan

[GNR_RNR]

22 minutes ago, Brownstone drum said:

I don't know if he hated being in the band, just what was going on with the lack of creativity.

Was watching an interview with him today from this year where he says he needs to be creative.....

An interesting interview

I think he hated it.

The band themselves were not that welcoming, makes sense as an 'outsider'.

The creativity thing would definitely be a part of it but I think the band was pretty dysfunctional in those years.

Being explicitly treated as a hired hand employee during those years didn't help either, having tour sprung on you must suck. 

[Sydney Fan]

1 hour ago, GNR_RNR said:

 

I think recruiting Ashba was a move from Axl to get a proven hit writer on the team.

The release of CD should have been cathartic for Axl as the album was finally out.

Should've followed it up with some fun 4/4 rock designed to get play on rock radio.

Yeah I think Axl was letting DJ into the writing room way more than Bumble. Can't say I blame him Bumblefoot is an amazing guitarist and a cool guy but both his songwriting ang guitar tone just doesn't gel with GNR.

It does make me sad that Bumble is now doomed to talk about GNR in every interview he does with the thousand yard stare, he was cool to the fans.

Shame he hatted being in the band.

 

Ashba as a proven "hit writer"?., ashba would be no desmond child. So from russ mentioned before guns could have been sixxam.....🤮.

Besides i thought CD2 and 3 were almost recoreded so was another songwriter necessary?.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Sydney Fan

[GNR_RNR]

3 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

Ashba as a proven "hit writer"?

Yes. His work around that time fitted pretty well with 'rock' style of the time.

Grammy nomination for SOLA title track with crue and decent success on the mainstream and hard rock charts in the US.

People have a weird hate boner for Ashba just because he didn't play patience like they wanted.

4 minutes ago, Sydney Fan said:

So from russ mentioned before guns could have been sixxam.....🤮.

Life is beautiful slaps. 

Would much rather a Sixx:AM album from Guns that the literal nothing we have instead.

[Towelie]

I don't believe Axl was remotely interesting in hiring Ashba in any creative capacity. If this was the case, how do you explain him being in the band for 7 years and not contributing one original note of music in all that time? Ashba was hired to replace Finck and tour Chinese Democracy as a 3-guitarist band, as it was originally intended. No other reason.

It was only evident once he shared a stage with players of Ron and Richards calibre quite how much he sucked. At the end of the day, I don't think Axl even cared by that point. We're talking about a guy that routinely rocks up under-rehearsed, under-prepared and sounding like a hybrid of Mickey Mouse and Herbert the Pervert. It's blatantly obvious that Axl doesn't care about GNR even half as much as the fans on this board do.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Towelie

[Dean]

For all we know, Axl could be like Prince in that he continuously writes and records music. Who truly knows what he is sat on, but I doubt he hasn't done anything since the initial Chinese sessions.

In 2006 he mentioned that they were working on a song that wasn't going to be part of the next 2 records, and of course the song Sebastian Bach raved on about that Axl and Ashba wrote.

Despite the lack of material released saying otherwise, I still believe, deep down, that Axl sees himself as a recording artist that takes great pride in his work. We'll probably never know what happened behind the scenes in regards to Chinese being handed over a series of times and the prolonged delays, as I don't think Axl is solely to blame either. The truth may lie somewhere in the middle. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Dean

[Towelie]

Just now, Dean said:

For all me know, Axl could be like Prince in that he continuously writes and records music. 

Axl like Prince? Lol. Pull the other one. 

Prince released 32 albums in his lifetime, wrote over 20 albums for other protegee acts, and recorded enough unreleased material to put out a full album of original material for the next 100 years.

Axl like Prince? Lol lol lol

[Dean]

4 minutes ago, Towelie said:

Axl like Prince? Lol. Pull the other one. 

Prince released 32 albums in his lifetime, wrote over 20 albums for other protegee acts, and recorded enough unreleased material to put out a full album of original material for the next 100 years.

Axl like Prince? Lol lol lol

Prince was sat on a vault of movies, music videos and as you say, loads of material that he had no intention of putting out when he was alive due to a number of factors.

Just because Axl has released so little doesn't mean to say he doesn't have a similar work ethic. 

There are similarities there with Guns and specifically Axl, the UYI movie, GNR docs over the years, music videos and whatever material there is to work with. 

[RussTCB]

9 minutes ago, Dean said:

Prince was sat on a vault of movies, music videos and as you say, loads of material that he had no intention of putting out when he was alive due to a number of factors.

Just because Axl has released so little doesn't mean to say he doesn't have a similar work ethic. 

There are similarities there with Guns and specifically Axl, the UYI movie, GNR docs over the years, music videos and whatever material there is to work with. 

I think the difference is that Prince released tons of material in addition to having all the material in the vault that we still haven't heard. 

At this point, it's all a matter of guessing anyway, but personally I'd be shocked if Axl had anything more than maybe 3 albums worth of material that could be released some day. 

[WildStar]

5 hours ago, GNR_RNR said:

 

I think recruiting Ashba was a move from Axl to get a proven hit writer on the team.

The release of CD should have been cathartic for Axl as the album was finally out.

Should've followed it up with some fun 4/4 rock designed to get play on rock radio.

Yeah I think Axl was letting DJ into the writing room way more than Bumble. Can't say I blame him Bumblefoot is an amazing guitarist and a cool guy but both his songwriting ang guitar tone just doesn't gel with GNR.

It does make me sad that Bumble is now doomed to talk about GNR in every interview he does with the thousand yard stare, he was cool to the fans.

Shame he hatted being in the band.

 

Cathartic! Nice choice of word. Is someone in your family a English Teacher? 

[allwaystired]

4 hours ago, Dean said:

Prince was sat on a vault of movies, music videos and as you say, loads of material that he had no intention of putting out when he was alive due to a number of factors.

Just because Axl has released so little doesn't mean to say he doesn't have a similar work ethic. 

There are similarities there with Guns and specifically Axl, the UYI movie, GNR docs over the years, music videos and whatever material there is to work with. 

There aren't many similarities.

For starters he had every intention of putting out his things - a lot of his songs released at the end of his life were stuff from years ago that he'd got round to finishing. He constantly worked on his ideas, shelved them for a while, brought them out again, etc. The idea that he recorded stuff then simply hoarded it really isn't true - he was just incredibly prolific and had too much material. One of the major reasons he fell out with Warner Brothers is that he wanted to release more stuff than they would let him; hence him releasing a 3cd boxset as soon as he got out of that contract. 

In Axl's case it is very different - nothing ever comes out. We don't know what he does at home of course (he could be writing and recording all the time) but there's never any result we can point to so it's impossible to know. Comparing him with Prince though is crazy talk when you look at the tangible proof (i.e. what is actually released for public consumption). 

 

[Rovim]

16 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Axl liked the idea of having two lead guitarists (although NuGnR wasn't originally planned as a three-guitar band, but after Robin returned he wanted both him and Buckethead) but it's not easy to work - and it couldn't work either with Slash or in NuGnR - because lead guitarists have egos.

sorry, long post but that Brain interview got me thinking: as soon as Axl was presented with the idea of keeping Bucket and accept Robin back into the fold and go with the 3 guitar approach he liked it maybe cause it meant more different styles of playing could be utilized. He did that with Brain and Josh and with Frank to a certain extent as well. Maybe that's his way to get what he wants creatively. He listens to every idea by anyone who thinks they got something like Pitman and If The World and hones in on what he thinks will work for him in a Gn'R conext.

Axl said it was obviously the right choice to go with 3 guitars but it meant doing something you can't really do imo if you want momentum and the kind of success Axl was shooting for and that was making Bucket share lead guitar duties with another guitar player.

I don't think he understood that he is like Slash. Can't do that to the extent they did with that type of player. Should have been done like the current line up if he wanted it to last. Only a few solos given to Richard cause Richard is not Slash. Axl maybe just looked at it as what each player can provide to the "cause", but not if it was enough for them to stay. Big mistake. Then he tried to convince Bucket to come back but it was too late cause he chose to air his dirty laundry in public, blaming Bucket without making sure he was actually responsible. Huge mistake.

as much as I absolutely love Robin's work and how unique, expressive, and talented he is, I remember when Marc Canter said he didn't agree with Axl when he said to him that Robin was his Randy Rhodes. Marc said "if you don't have the chops, let someone else do it".

in Gn'R, Slash always provided the entire package. I think Axl found a replacement for Slash in Bucket and Robin this makes sense to me cause Slash is perfect for Gn'R so maybe it's impossible to replace him with just 1 player. (Axl was right all along when he insisted on Paul being a part of it but he should have kept him in a West Arkeen type of role imo)

no matter how I look at it, I don't see a possible way it could have worked both commercially and artistically with the lack of artistic confidence, no time constrains and the tinkering.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Rovim

[Dean]

1 hour ago, allwaystired said:

There aren't many similarities.

For starters he had every intention of putting out his things - a lot of his songs released at the end of his life were stuff from years ago that he'd got round to finishing. He constantly worked on his ideas, shelved them for a while, brought them out again, etc. The idea that he recorded stuff then simply hoarded it really isn't true - he was just incredibly prolific and had too much material. One of the major reasons he fell out with Warner Brothers is that he wanted to release more stuff than they would let him; hence him releasing a 3cd boxset as soon as he got out of that contract. 

In Axl's case it is very different - nothing ever comes out. We don't know what he does at home of course (he could be writing and recording all the time) but there's never any result we can point to so it's impossible to know. Comparing him with Prince though is crazy talk when you look at the tangible proof (i.e. what is actually released for public consumption). 

 

Axl has stated publicly of his intentions to release music, but whatever happened behind the scenes, it hasn't worked out. What you've mentioned about shelving songs and working on them in future, you can argue for Axl too You Could Be Mine, November Rain, Street of Dreams, TWAT and whatever stems from the Chinese sessions and beyond that may end up on a future release, but as I said in the first post, despite the lack of material stating otherwise, it has been suggested that Axl Rose has continued to write and record music and there has been tidbits of info over the years that has proved that. 

The two of them are/were perfectionists and incredibly talented at their craft. Ever watched Kevin Smith talk about doing a documentary for Prince that never seen the light of day? Sheds some insight on what the guy is like. There are certainly parallels that can be drawn between the two from an artistic side. Just my two cents.

[Blackstar]

12 minutes ago, Rovim said:

sorry, long post but that Brain interview got me thinking: as soon as Axl was presented with the idea of keeping Bucket and accept Robin back into the fold and go with the 3 guitar approach he liked it maybe cause it meant more different styles of playing could be utilized. He did that with Brain and Josh and with Frank to a certain extent as well. Maybe that's his way to get what he wants creatively. He listens to every idea by anyone who thinks they got something like Pitman and If The World and hones in on what he thinks will work for him in a Gn'R conext.

Axl said it was obviously the right choice to go with 3 guitars but it meant doing something you can't really do imo if you want momentum and the kind of success Axl was shooting for and that was making Bucket share lead guitar duties with another guitar player.

I don't think he understood that he is like Slash. Can't do that to the extent they did with that type of player. Should have been done like the current line up if he wanted it to last. Only a few solos given to Richard cause Richard is not Slash. Axl maybe just looked at it as what each player can provide to the "cause", but not if it was enough for them to stay. Big mistake. Then he tried to convince Bucket to come back but it was too late and he chose to air his dirty laundry in public, blaming Bucket without making sure it was actually responsible. Huge mistake.

as much as I absolutely love Robin's work and how unique, expressive, and talented he is, I remember when Marc Canter said he didn't agree with Axl when he said to him that Robin was his Randy Rhodes. Marc said "if you don't have the chops, let someone else do it".

in Gn'R, Slash always provided the entire package. I think Axl found a replacement for Slash in Bucket and Robin this makes sense to me cause Slash is perfect for Gn'R so maybe it's impossible to replace him with just 1 player. (Axl was right all along when he insisted on Paul being a part of it but he should have kept him in a West Arkeen type of role imo)

no matter how I look at it, I don't see a possible way it could have worked both commercially and artistically.

I more or less agree.

I haven't managed to listen to the Brain interview you posted yet, but in the interview I listened to some time ago Brain said that there was competition, jealousy and fights between the guitarists about things like who would play the SCOM solo at the shows. And then he said that now Slash is back these issues have been automatically solved and everything works well simply because it's Slash and no one would claim to play the solos better than the guy who wrote them, plus he said Richard was always the most humble one anyway.

About the bolded: I think that's what Axl was actually thinking about PHT. He wanted him as a studio writer, as Paul wouldn't tour and couldn't have been a full-duty member anyway. After Izzy left Axl started seeing GnR more like a project than like a band in the traditional sense of the world - he saw it as the Axl & Slash project.

[allwaystired]

3 minutes ago, Dean said:

Axl has stated publicly of his intentions to release music, but whatever happened behind the scenes, it hasn't worked out. What you've mentioned about shelving songs and working on them in future, you can argue for Axl too You Could Be Mine, November Rain, Street of Dreams, TWAT and whatever stems from the Chinese sessions and beyond that may end up on a future release, but as I said in the first post, despite the lack of material stating otherwise, it has been suggested that Axl Rose has continued to write and record music and there has been tidbits of info over the years that has proved that. 

The two of them are/were perfectionists and incredibly talented at their craft. Ever watched Kevin Smith talk about doing a documentary for Prince that never seen the light of day? Sheds some insight on what the guy is like. There are certainly parallels that can be drawn between the two from an artistic side. Just my two cents.

Haha - yeah, that Kevin Smith story is a classic! 

I think there are definitely some similarities in the perfectionist thing, but we can only speculate as to how and to what level Axl makes and records music. I think I lean more to the side these days in that he doesn't anymore, but probably did in the early days of writing the CD material. Who knows hey? 

[Dean]

18 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

Haha - yeah, that Kevin Smith story is a classic! 

I think there are definitely some similarities in the perfectionist thing, but we can only speculate as to how and to what level Axl makes and records music. I think I lean more to the side these days in that he doesn't anymore, but probably did in the early days of writing the CD material. Who knows hey? 

Did Prince ever have the creative chops to release a children's book based off one of his songs?! I hear that's what the Prince community have been craving for decades!!