What if 2000's line up of GN'R would be more commercial

[RussTCB]

Just now, Dean said:

Did Prince ever have the creative chops to release a children's book based off one of his songs?! I hear that's what the Prince community have been craving for decades!!

Hahaha, I shit you not I literally laughed out loud at this. Well done. 

[Rovim]

49 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I more or less agree.

I haven't managed to listen to the Brain interview you posted yet, but in the interview I listened to some time ago Brain said that there was competition, jealousy and fights between the guitarists about things like who would play the SCOM solo at the shows. And then he said that now Slash is back these issues have been automatically solved and everything works well simply because it's Slash and no one would claim to play the solos better than the guy who wrote them, plus he said Richard was always the most humble one anyway.

About the bolded: I think that's what Axl was actually thinking about PHT. He wanted him as a studio writer, as Paul wouldn't tour and couldn't have been a full-duty member anyway. After Izzy left Axl started seeing GnR more like a project than like a band in the traditional sense of the world - he saw it as the Axl & Slash project.

I guess it's another reminder of why supergroups usually don't work out very well. You need chemistry on a personal and artistic level with every member of the group in order for it to function perfectly, especially if you're aspirations are as lofty as Axl's probably were.

maybe Axl should have forgiven Slash in like 1999 when Robin left and they both could have found someone like Richard or maybe even Richard and Paul could have helped without being in the same room with Slash like he did in the past. Axl should have called Slash instead of Brian May and not demand a public apology. I think Slash would have been open if Axl wasn't still bitter.

No late starts, a rhythm guitar player he would not hate. Could have worked and Chinese was already pretty much completed. They could have reworked it and released it in 2000. Commercial and artistic success.

I wonder if Slash and Robin could have both been a part of Gn'R at the same time. I kinda doubt it. As it is right now, Axl invested a lot of time in trying to replace Slash and push the band forward but just 1 album released under the Gn'R name kinda seems not worth it, like he failed in a way without Slash, Duff, and Izzy.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Rovim

[Use Your Delusion 1]

On 05/05/2020 at 9:05 PM, Gordon Comstock said:

 

Knockin On Heavens Door, Get In The Ring, Shotgun Blues, So Fine and My World are definitely what I'd call filler tracks. Don't Cry (alt) has good lyrics, but the song was redundant. Yesterdays is fine but I never go out of my way to listen to it.

UYI 2 definitely has the most filler IMO.

I have no idea why people rate UYI 2 over UYI 1 for the reasons you outline. Stick both of the records on your vinyl player and you realise the first Illusion is a much more coherent record. It's actually an underrated album. 

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

7 hours ago, Rovim said:

sorry, long post but that Brain interview got me thinking: as soon as Axl was presented with the idea of keeping Bucket and accept Robin back into the fold and go with the 3 guitar approach he liked it maybe cause it meant more different styles of playing could be utilized. He did that with Brain and Josh and with Frank to a certain extent as well. Maybe that's his way to get what he wants creatively. He listens to every idea by anyone who thinks they got something like Pitman and If The World and hones in on what he thinks will work for him in a Gn'R conext.

Axl said it was obviously the right choice to go with 3 guitars but it meant doing something you can't really do imo if you want momentum and the kind of success Axl was shooting for and that was making Bucket share lead guitar duties with another guitar player.

I don't think he understood that he is like Slash. Can't do that to the extent they did with that type of player. Should have been done like the current line up if he wanted it to last. Only a few solos given to Richard cause Richard is not Slash. Axl maybe just looked at it as what each player can provide to the "cause", but not if it was enough for them to stay. Big mistake. Then he tried to convince Bucket to come back but it was too late cause he chose to air his dirty laundry in public, blaming Bucket without making sure he was actually responsible. Huge mistake.

as much as I absolutely love Robin's work and how unique, expressive, and talented he is, I remember when Marc Canter said he didn't agree with Axl when he said to him that Robin was his Randy Rhodes. Marc said "if you don't have the chops, let someone else do it".

in Gn'R, Slash always provided the entire package. I think Axl found a replacement for Slash in Bucket and Robin this makes sense to me cause Slash is perfect for Gn'R so maybe it's impossible to replace him with just 1 player. (Axl was right all along when he insisted on Paul being a part of it but he should have kept him in a West Arkeen type of role imo)

no matter how I look at it, I don't see a possible way it could have worked both commercially and artistically with the lack of artistic confidence, no time constrains and the tinkering.

 

 

IMHO seems like that once all the dust settled from the Post-UYI defections a conscientious effort was made to avoid the whole “Axl-Lead Guitarist” dynamic. The ‘99 SPIN article even talked about how Stinson was to have “Slash-level” billing (presumably b/c of his rep w/the ‘mats and NOT being a lead guitarist, etc.). As it turned out that is pretty much how it unfolded with Tommy a constant (“The General”) and the guitarists frequently in flux (and as you say mostly there to contribute to a greater cause artistically)...

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, AXL_N_DIZZY said:

IMHO seems like that once all the dust settled from the Post-UYI defections a conscientious effort was made to avoid the whole “Axl-Lead Guitarist” dynamic. The ‘99 SPIN article even talked about how Stinson was to have “Slash-level” billing (presumably b/c of his rep w/the ‘mats and NOT being a lead guitarist, etc.). As it turned out that is pretty much how it unfolded with Tommy a constant (“The General”) and the guitarists frequently in flux (and as you say mostly there to contribute to a greater cause artistically)...

if that was true I don't think Axl would have thought about Robin as "his Randy Rhodes" like he told Marc Canter (according to Marc) Axl also said that the 3 guitars approach wasn't intentional.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Rovim

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

7 hours ago, Rovim said:

if that was true I don't think Axl would have thought about Robin as "his Randy Rhodes" like he told Marc Canter (according to Marc) Axl also said that the 3 guitars approach wasn't intentional.

I’m careful with that quote as we only have it from Marc (great source- but one person’s perception of a conversation)- and even if Axl said it- we can’t be certain how he meant it (for that track? that record? next 15 years of his career? passing thought that particular day?). I think history shows that Axl grew attached to the artistic contributions of all the guitarists (touring w/all of them, keeping their recordings on the record, spreading the praise in the post-record chats amongst past and current players)- and despite the inevitable frictions- wanted them all involved in some way for the sake of the music.

[Rovim]

5 hours ago, AXL_N_DIZZY said:

I’m careful with that quote as we only have it from Marc (great source- but one person’s perception of a conversation)- and even if Axl said it- we can’t be certain how he meant it (for that track? that record? next 15 years of his career? passing thought that particular day?). I think history shows that Axl grew attached to the artistic contributions of all the guitarists (touring w/all of them, keeping their recordings on the record, spreading the praise in the post-record chats amongst past and current players)- and despite the inevitable frictions- wanted them all involved in some way for the sake of the music.

yeah but your guess about it being a conscientious effort to avoid the iconic lead singer-guitar hero duo is more of a stretch that is kinda not based on much as opposed to at least some real accounts from a source.

also Matt was the one who suggested Robin should join the band and play with Slash and the rumor is Axl said "I want him to replace him". We don't know if any of it is true, but I just don't buy Axl planned what you're suggesting.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Rovim

[Tomek1985]

On 5.05.2020 at 12:22 AM, Pharaoh said:

seventh album (Maybe colled SEVEN)

 

with a SEVEN WORLD TOUR 2005-2008

Welcome to the gnr world, as we can all see, you fit it just perfect

[Hank Moody]

Let’s make an assumption that GNR got to release an album in the early 2000’s, and were making the late night shows, how can you explain to the average joe watching at home that your uber talented guitar player is wearing a bucket on his head and plays fucking nunchucks as part of his solo spot? To me, as much as those lineups were talented, they couldn’t succeed in the public eye due to their randomness, I mean the original band at least had a certain look that made them unique in some sense. Unfortunately, to have some sort of success in music the looks, and charisma to some extent, also play a part on it, and how can someone market a half shaven head and another bucket wearing guitar player? They sure have the chops and could creat even more great music than we’ve already heard, but GNR already had an established image for the public, and it would be too hard for them to even have a chance. 
On another side, there’s whatever happened to Axl that made him miss opportunity after opportunity to make the band relevant and release more material, that could have at least given them a chance before the public eye. It’s sad that an artist of Axl’s caliber has done so little in this amount of time, the guy could be a lot more legendary than he is and instead he chooses to have some fuckheads use one of his masterpieces to write a fucking child’s book, erase his performances from the internet and tarnish any kind of legacy he has. 

PS: who knew that the drunk me had so much to say about nuGNR and possibilities...

[ToonGuns]

3 hours ago, Hank Moody said:

Let’s make an assumption that GNR got to release an album in the early 2000’s, and were making the late night shows, how can you explain to the average joe watching at home that your uber talented guitar player is wearing a bucket on his head and plays fucking nunchucks as part of his solo spot? To me, as much as those lineups were talented, they couldn’t succeed in the public eye due to their randomness, I mean the original band at least had a certain look that made them unique in some sense. Unfortunately, to have some sort of success in music the looks, and charisma to some extent, also play a part on it, and how can someone market a half shaven head and another bucket wearing guitar player? They sure have the chops and could creat even more great music than we’ve already heard, but GNR already had an established image for the public, and it would be too hard for them to even have a chance. 

The big bands at the time were Marilyn Manson, Limp Bizkit and Slipknot... so crazy randomness was not an issue.

The challenge would have been to convince the world of the change (i.e. from 80's LA sleaze to "Nu"), however had Axl got in a bunch of lookalike Mk2 copycats at that stage (aka Ashba) in my view it would have been worse, so I actually applaud the craziness.

The only mistake in my view was the delays. 2000-2002 the world was ready and waiting for the new GnR explosion, regardless of KFC opinions.

[GNR_RNR]

1 hour ago, ToonGuns said:

The big bands at the time were Marilyn Manson, Limp Bizkit and Slipknot... so crazy randomness was not an issue.

The challenge would have been to convince the world of the change (i.e. from 80's LA sleaze to "Nu"), however had Axl got in a bunch of lookalike Mk2 copycats at that stage (aka Ashba) in my view it would have been worse, so I actually applaud the craziness.

The only mistake in my view was the delays. 2000-2002 the world was ready and waiting for the new GnR explosion, regardless of KFC opinions.

It sucks that GNR didn't release a nu-metal album in the late 90's/early 2000's, hell CD as an album reminds me of Smashing Pumpkins as much as anything else. 

I think that was Axl's plan but for whatever reason he didn't feel comfortable discarding the old material.

Never should have booked into Arenas for the new lineup. He was always going to need the classic songs to draw in that crowd. Should have focused on a wider tour with smaller venues and played mostly new songs (Also Should have just gone under the name 'Axl' instead on 'GNR').

 

 

 

[Sosso]

1 hour ago, GNR_RNR said:

It sucks that GNR didn't release a nu-metal album in the late 90's/early 2000's, hell CD as an album reminds me of Smashing Pumpkins as much as anything else. 

I think that was Axl's plan but for whatever reason he didn't feel comfortable discarding the old material.

Never should have booked into Arenas for the new lineup. He was always going to need the classic songs to draw in that crowd. Should have focused on a wider tour with smaller venues and played mostly new songs (Also Should have just gone under the name 'Axl' instead on 'GNR').

 

 

 

CD was to epic to become a side / solo project. Also, this album was done by a Band and not just by Axl. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by Sosso

[ToonGuns]

2 hours ago, GNR_RNR said:

Also Should have just gone under the name 'Axl' instead on 'GNR'.

W.A.Rose. That would have been good. Memorable, controversial, antagonistic, appropriate to his persona etc.

[soon]

The record company wouldnt have paid millions of dollars, over multiple years, for an Axl solo album.

Axl also paid millions out of pocket on CD/salaries. Whereas him as a solo artist could have been an arena act, that was not a guarantee. So in that light, he was able to spend millions of his own money becasue he had the GNR moniker to play live and recoup costs.

And how many of the CD lineup would have been there on spec (for a share of potential future profits), just because they were passionate about an Axl solo album? Not many imho.

[GNR_RNR]

1 hour ago, Sosso said:

CD was to epic to become a side / solo project. Also, this album was done by a Band and not just by Axl. 

Imo CD lost more than it gained by being classed as a GNR album. Many wrote off a GNR album without Slash (despite the amazing guitar work on the album) and Axl got lost in lving up to their earlier work.

18 minutes ago, soon said:

The record company wouldnt have paid millions of dollars, over multiple years, for an Axl solo album.

Axl also paid millions out of pocket on CD/salaries. Whereas him as a solo artist could have been an arena act, that was not a guarantee. So in that light, he was able to spend millions of his own money becasue he had the GNR moniker to play live and recoup costs.

And how many of the CD lineup would have been there on spec (for a share of potential future profits), just because they were passionate about an Axl solo album? Not many imho.

By the 2000's the record label didn't care any more. They just wanted the album off of their books (which is why they tried to smoke the album out into releasing by cutting funding).

Any of the CD lineup would've been happy to work with Axl on an album that came out in a reasonable time. GNR lost so many personnel because Axl's insane schedule refused to 'legitimise' them and instead reduced them to touring musicians of the hits. 

[soon]

19 minutes ago, GNR_RNR said:

By the 2000's the record label didn't care any more. They just wanted the album off of their books (which is why they tried to smoke the album out into releasing by cutting funding).

Any of the CD lineup would've been happy to work with Axl on an album that came out in a reasonable time. GNR lost so many personnel because Axl's insane schedule refused to 'legitimise' them and instead reduced them to touring musicians of the hits. 

My point is about the budget though. No way an Axl solo project would have that budget to begin with. And therefore not that lineup either. Maybe one or two of them but not all of them. 

[HOOSIER GUNZ]

though we will never know, i'd imagine back then if axl had done a solo type of thing and played the classics, the masses would of shown up to hear it no matter what.  didn't tommy once say that axl could show up in the middle of corn field and people would flock to hear him...

[Hollywood Gunner]

what if the 2000's lineup didnt have a dude with a reverse mullet that looks like a dead cat or a clown with a fucking bucket of chicken on his head?

[Sosso]

19 minutes ago, Hollywood Gunner said:

what if the 2000's lineup didnt have a dude with a reverse mullet that looks like a dead cat or a clown with a fucking bucket of chicken on his head?

What if Slipknot didn't had a dude with a Clown mask? 

 

[NicoGNR5]

Not a chance to eclipse what GN’R was on his gold era. Also, LMAO at the Prince conversation. I love Axl and he’s my favorite but he wishes he had the talent and confidence that Prince had. He produced all the songs, played almost every instrument on his albums, composed tons of songs for other people, I don’t know, I could keep going and going and going...

I think it’s valid to think that maybe Axl has like 100 finished songs on his vault (although I think at best he has like 30/40 finished songs) but the guy has released just one album with 14 songs since 1991, i’m sorry but even the slower of the artists should have at least 30 songs written in almost 30 years, but that doesn’t automatically converts him in Prince.

Also, as an example, take Eddie Vedder, I haven’t counted the songs, but considering PJ’s work and his solo work, he probably has written and released more than 100 songs since 1991, but he’s still not on Prince level when it comes to being a music machine, I would say only producers like Mark Ronson are there.

As a matter of fact, I would be disappointed if Axl dies tomorrow and there’s only like 30 finished songs, it would do an average of like a song per 7 months, and that’s counting the 14 songs of CD. 

[PatrickS77]

8 hours ago, ToonGuns said:

W.A.Rose. That would have been good. Memorable, controversial, antagonistic, appropriate to his persona etc.

Or just W.A.R. That would have been fitting, wouldn't have meant it's a solo album per se, as he still seems to consider it a group effort and would haven taken the pressure off him and maybe more people would have given it a chance.

[guitarpatch]

8 hours ago, soon said:

My point is about the budget though. No way an Axl solo project would have that budget to begin with. And therefore not that lineup either. Maybe one or two of them but not all of them. 

An Axl solo project in the late 90’s wouldn’t have seen a budget on that scale. Still large but definitely not approaching 8-10+ million. That budget originally stemmed from their contract which usually increases with each record option.  It was a total play to leverage the name for many reasons. Including that advance 

The main thing you haven’t mentioned yet was the huge label merger where Geffen was essentially dissolved. Interscope took over around then and it was an entire team that probably didn’t know what to do with the whole thing. So it’s possible they tried to freeze it out, cause a reunion situation or just preferred it to be a write off on the ledgers.

I don’t think Interscope was ever excited about its prospects. Especially by 2001-2002. That genre had passed by then. That type of record needed to come out by 1998-1999 at the latest. However, that’s what happens when you’re chasing sounds that are already out there. If you’re not on the forefront of it, you’ll always be behind and you’ll always need to update it’s sound....which is kind of what they did with each iteration of those songs  

Edited May 17, 2020 by guitarpatch

[HOOSIER GUNZ]

i think it's wild that billy howerdel is mentioned all over the chinese album yet surprised he didn't play a single note on it.  find that hard to believe because he is a super guitarist and he obviously gelled well with josh.  if there are rough cuts from chinese with axl, billy, and josh playing those songs those are the cuts i'd like to hear.  i know the early rough demos i've been listening to lately that are bass heavy loud like irs, citr, twat, cd and beta make me wonder what chinese coulda shoulda sounded like.  i'd like to hear any hidden gem with billy and josh on it.  and for the record, no pun intended, thank you axl for introducing to me to bucket, robin, paul, and richard. those fuckers are all bad ass.

[jbhutto]

Another aspect of this is that GNR would've been one of the main forces in rock music by default had they remained viable from 2000-2002ish on.  I can't think of who would've replaced them anyway, as most of the garage rock bands and others from that time period mostly petered off for one reason or another.   GNR/Axl were definitely in a unique position there, given the status the band had already achieved and also having the chance to take the torch and carry things forward.

[Hollywood Gunner]

23 hours ago, Sosso said:

What if Slipknot didn't had a dude with a Clown mask? 

 

they wouldnt exist but GNR would definitely exist without the clown lol