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Question for all those demanding new music. Can you name 1 band of GNR's stature that has released anything 30 years after their peak that was considered good by the majority of the audience. Not hardcore fans but the casuals who are the ones who make up the majority of the concert going and music buying audience?  I mean one band where they came out and played almost all new material 30 years later that the fans in audience were dying to hear or see.

The closest I can think of is U2 who make a point to play a lot of their new material on each tour but even then the songs that get the biggest reaction and pop are the classics.  A lot of the audiences for all legacy bands consider new songs a piss break or beer run time.

Heck in the shows I saw anytime a CD song came on a lot of people left to get beer or take a piss or sat down during those songs.  You really think if GNR put out a new album if they came out and played all of it plus a few classic songs that would go over well.  I just don't see it.  The best you can hope for is a song or maybe 3 sprinkled in among the hits that made the band famous and the VAST majority of fans are there to see.

By the way this doesn't mean I am against new music by any means but thinking if they release a new album means those songs will somehow replace almost of the hits in the setlist are sadly mistaken.

 

 

 

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Riot shields or bust.  

Cant beleive its taken the band 3 months to do this, and Fernando only agreeing to do something like this when told to him directly by the fans. If GNR want to look at being a top tier band this

55 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

His response to 'you changed some of the solos from CD' was "It just sounded like they were playing anything". To me, the solo in TIL are as good as anything Slash has played in the last 20yrs, an absolutely brilliant solo that built perfectly. Slash's TIL solo is a flurry of notes, there's basically no standout parts! Same goes for the outro solo on better (Richard shreds it too) and if they ever play Street Of Dreams, I'm sure they'll butcher that solo too.

It's not quite Bumblefoot 2006 double hand tapping in NV!! but it is still absolutely shit! When there's a great solo, you need to take your ego out and say "Ok, I'll play it close, but still add my touch".

To me Slash's best attempt on TIL is during the first Vegas shows, but this solo in Mexico was still better than any other guitarist I've heard playing it, hands down. The one tries to be Slash, the other is Slash. 

And that's far from noodling. He started noodling on TIL as the tour progressed.

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2 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

To me Slash's best attempt on TIL is during the first Vegas shows, but this solo in Mexico was still better than any other guitarist I've heard playing it, hands down. The one tries to be Slash, the other is Slash. 

And that's far from noodling. He started noodling on TIL as the tour progressed.

To me, the original is tasteful blues soloing that has some similarities to Slash (in that it's blues based) but in the points where Slash would fire off a fast lick, Robin goes for the Gilmour approach.

I don't think it's trying to be Slash. Slash's soloing on this song and better is one step ahead of DJ... at least DJ tried to learn it, but Slash is just a better player than DJ so that buts him through nonsense playing.

This is improvising / doodling, the other is a well defined solo with great feel and emotion. Slash's solo is completely forgettable.

25 minutes ago, Towelie said:

I presume that was during the outro?

Yeah the outro section, he even said himself that he was taking liberties! 

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27 minutes ago, UncleJosh said:

Question for all those demanding new music. Can you name 1 band of GNR's stature that has released anything 30 years after their peak that was considered good by the majority of the audience. Not hardcore fans but the casuals who are the ones who make up the majority of the concert going and music buying audience?  I mean one band where they came out and played almost all new material 30 years later that the fans in audience were dying to hear or see.

The closest I can think of is U2 who make a point to play a lot of their new material on each tour but even then the songs that get the biggest reaction and pop are the classics.  A lot of the audiences for all legacy bands consider new songs a piss break or beer run time.

Heck in the shows I saw anytime a CD song came on a lot of people left to get beer or take a piss or sat down during those songs.  You really think if GNR put out a new album if they came out and played all of it plus a few classic songs that would go over well.  I just don't see it.  The best you can hope for is a song or maybe 3 sprinkled in among the hits that made the band famous and the VAST majority of fans are there to see.

By the way this doesn't mean I am against new music by any means but thinking if they release a new album means those songs will somehow replace almost of the hits in the setlist are sadly mistaken.

 

 

 

MetallicAs Hardwired is a shout...but agree it’s a rarity it happens. Thing is - GNR are a special case. And we know there is quality material in the vault (Hardschool/Perhaps/Atlas for example)...which means we know the quality is there.

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1 hour ago, Lies They Tell said:

It's not only my reality. It's kinda the reality that we all live in. It's no secret that Axl's written songs that he's not even capable of singing himself properly. He's admitted it himself! He couldn't sing songs like Coma and You Could Be Mine properly even in his peak, because he made those songs impossible to sing. He never even tried singing Don't Damn Me live, cause it can't be done properly. It's a fact that GNR songs in general have a lot more melodic variation compared to AC/DC songs. AC/DC songs have a lot more short bursts of screaming which fit Axl's voice perfectly. When Axl wrote GNR songs, he took his voice to it's limits and that was when he was at his peak. His voice is nowhere near what it once was these days, so it's no wonder that he doesn't sound perfect on them.

I don't know about that. There's been some pretty darn close to perfect performances of SOYL. Why? Because in SOYL is pure screaming from start to finish, just like most of Brian Johnson AC/DC songs. Axl always sounds good when he screams. Anyway, I'm not here to argue about Axl's current voice. The last time we heard Axl, his voice was in a worse condition compared to 2016. My point was that there's a reason why Axl sounded better with AC/DC than with GNR in 2016. Because AC/DC songs fit his voice way better in general. But even in AC/DC concerts there were moments of Mickey here and there. The difference is that AC/DC songs have some rare moments when Axl has to use his Mickey voice, but GNR songs have tons of parts that don't really fit Axl's current voice, but every time he gets to scream, you can hear that Axl has the exact same power as he had with AC/DC. And I'm talking about 2016 Axl here.

It's not really that simple. If you're gonna rearrange the GNR songs to fit Axl's current voice, in most cases you'd have to change the songs completely, so they became barely recognizable. The thing is that Axl still hits the right notes usually. It's just that there's no rasp. So which one is more important, a raspy voice or hitting the right key? You seem to prefer a raspy voice, but I'd argue that the general public would disagree. I'd argue that for most casual fans it's much more important that the singer is singing in the right key. Casual fans may not even notice that there's some rasp missing, but if the song is completely rearranged, they will notice that.

That being said, I actually agree with you to some degree. I've been saying the same thing that some songs should be rearranged to Axl's current voice, but at the same time I do recognize the problems involved with that.

Anyway there's not much you can complain about when you look at this compilation of Houston and Mexico City. Out Ta Get Me sounds very close to classic Axl and every fault you can find is very minor. Live music isn't supposed to be perfect to begin with.

 

Axl couldn’t sing songs like YCBN properly even his peak?! Now it’s getting beyond ridiculous. 

The casual fans may not notice some rasp missing here and there. But casual fans do notice that the Mickey Mouse voice they are hearing for three hours at a live show sounds like shit and has nothing to do with the voice they know from the radio and they paid hard earned money  for to hear live. 

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30 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

MetallicAs Hardwired is a shout...but agree it’s a rarity it happens. Thing is - GNR are a special case. And we know there is quality material in the vault (Hardschool/Perhaps/Atlas for example)...which means we know the quality is there.

Fair enough but I didn't think any of those leaked songs were that great if I am honest.  I mean they were OK as leaked demos but I am not clamoring for them to be released or played live.  I listened to them a bunch when they were leaked then they went into storage on my hard drive.  I don't listen to any of them anymore like I do the official or live stuff which I listen to weekly if not daily.  Heck just the songs Chinese Democracy or Madagascar blew anything in those vault leaks away and I still witnessed mass exoduses to the concourse on both those songs when they played them live. 

I am a huge Metallica fan going back to Kill Em All days but I don't think they have put out anything that I connect with since ReLoad to be honest.  I can't think of one song released in the 2000's that I like ( I Disappear is from 2000 I guess but that is the last song). I know a lot of hardcore fans feel differently.  I mean I buy every single live release they put out including all their official boots but I skip over all those songs.  They just do nothing for me.  YMMV

Probably a moot point though because who knows if GN'R will even put anything out ever.  I hope they do and it is great of course. I don't mean to come off as shitting on any new music by any of these bands including GN'R even though it may come off that way. I do want it, my only point was that no matter how good hardcore fans may feel something is, it is almost impossible for the majority of live audiences to feel the same way about new material for legacy acts.  They will never replace the classic songs live.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, zigzagbigbag said:

Axl couldn’t sing songs like YCBN properly even his peak?! Now it’s getting beyond ridiculous. 

He couldn't! And by properly I mean like the studio version. The studio version goes: "Yooooouuuuuuuuuooouuuuu coooooould bee mine" The live version has always been: "You cooould be mine". Axl's said it himself. He wrote YCBM without even thinking how he can pull it off live. I mean the live version is fine, but singing the song the way it's on the album is pretty much impossible.

47 minutes ago, zigzagbigbag said:

The casual fans may not notice some rasp missing here and there. But casual fans do notice that the Mickey Mouse voice they are hearing for three hours at a live show sounds like shit and has nothing to do with the voice they know from the radio and they paid hard earned money  for to hear live.

I wouldn't say that Axl's current voice has nothing to do with his classic voice. Usually when casual fans describe Axl's voice they just say that it's high pitched. They don't talk about rasp.

But sure, depending on HOW casual fans we're talking about here, some notice the difference for sure. But they'll definitely notice if the songs are rearranged too, so Axl's gonna be criticized either way. I agree that they should try to minimize the amount of Mickey sounding parts on the setlist, but I'm not sure if rearranging the songs completely is the right way to do it since unfortunately the songs would need some HEAVY rearranging to fit Axl's current voice. So I agree with @El Guapo. They should release a new album with killer songs that fit Axl's current voice and then fill the setlist with these new songs. Of course some of the classics have to be played, but at least the amount of Mickey songs would be much smaller.

But now we're talking about Axl's current voice. In 2016 his voice was good. Not perfect but good and the amount of Mickey wasn't too bad back then.

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51 minutes ago, UncleJosh said:

Fair enough but I didn't think any of those leaked songs were that great if I am honest.  I mean they were OK as leaked demos but I am not clamoring for them to be released or played live.  I listened to them a bunch when they were leaked then they went into storage on my hard drive.  I don't listen to any of them anymore like I do the official or live stuff which I listen to weekly if not daily.  Heck just the songs Chinese Democracy or Madagascar blew anything in those vault leaks away and I still witnessed mass exoduses to the concourse on both those songs when they played them live. 

I am a huge Metallica fan going back to Kill Em All days but I don't think they have put out anything that I connect with since ReLoad to be honest.  I can't think of one song released in the 2000's that I like ( I Disappear is from 2000 I guess but that is the last song). I know a lot of hardcore fans feel differently.  I mean I buy every single live release they put out including all their official boots but I skip over all those songs.  They just do nothing for me.  YMMV

Probably a moot point though because who knows if GN'R will even put anything out ever.  I hope they do and it is great of course. I don't mean to come off as shitting on any new music by any of these bands including GN'R even though it may come off that way. I do want it, my only point was that no matter how good hardcore fans may feel something is, it is almost impossible for the majority of live audiences to feel the same way about new material for legacy acts.  They will never replace the classic songs live.

 

 

It’s cool man - there is no real ‘right or wrong’ answer as music is completely subjective. I think in the main you are right - bands as old as GNR etc will have a fair amount of the crowd who are there for the big hitters regardless of the quality of any new material. GNRs case is an odd one due to the length of time since any new material with Axl/Slash/Duff. I listen to about 8/9 tracks of the locker stuff pretty regular - but they connect with me I guess.

Like you, we all hope any new material is as good as we hope it to be.....and that there is a decent representation of it in the setlist. 👍

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6 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

He couldn't! And by properly I mean like the studio version. The studio version goes: "Yooooouuuuuuuuuooouuuuu coooooould bee mine" The live version has always been: "You cooould be mine". Axl's said it himself. He wrote YCBM without even thinking how he can pull it off live. I mean the live version is fine, but singing the song the way it's on the album is pretty much impossible.

I wouldn't say that Axl's current voice has nothing to do with his classic voice. Usually when casual fans describe Axl's voice they just say that it's high pitched. They don't talk about rasp.

But sure, depending on HOW casual fans we're talking about here, some notice the difference for sure. But they'll definitely notice if the songs are rearranged too, so Axl's gonna be criticized either way. I agree that they should try to minimize the amount of Mickey sounding parts on the setlist, but I'm not sure if rearranging the songs completely is the right way to do it since unfortunately the songs would need some HEAVY rearranging to fit Axl's current voice. So I agree with @El Guapo. They should release a new album with killer songs that fit Axl's current voice and then fill the setlist with these new songs. Of course some of the classics have to be played, but at least the amount of Mickey songs would be much smaller.

But now we're talking about Axl's current voice. In 2016 his voice was good. Not perfect but good and the amount of Mickey wasn't too bad back then.

Even if YCBM back then didn’t sound 100% like the studio version (if you say so), it actually did sound awesome. That’s all that matters. Today’s YCBM does sound like shit. And, unfortunately, its not only YCBM that sounds like crap but the majority of a three hour show. Its not something I point out to troll or something, its just a fact that hurts me as a fan of Axl Rose and a fact everyone with two intact ears will confirm, unless we are talking bout the typical yes-men. 

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Agreed.  I just think the days of wishing that any new music will replace the majority older hits live is long gone at this point.  However of course I do want them to be represented assuming they are good of course.  There are a couple of the leaked songs that I might enjoy with better lyrics or production.  Again these are demos and they can change a lot in final form.  I just thought of one I really like which was Quick Song. Now that if the lyrics were done and were good I think that is a song I would want to hear live a lot.   But do I want to hear it more than say Nightrain?  No f'n way.  But they could drop any of the countless covers and all but the song Chinese Democracy from that album for it and I would be happy.

I think YCBM at the Saskatoon 93 show was pretty badass.  About as good as it gets for me personally.

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2 minutes ago, zigzagbigbag said:

Even if YCBM back then didn’t sound 100% like the studio version (if you say so), it actually did sound awesome. 

Well it didn't sound like the studio version and if you indeed have two intact ears, you know that. I'm not saying that it didn't sound good. I was just saying that he was really pushing his vocal capabilities to it's limits back then. So much that he couldn't even sing some of the songs when he was at his peak the way they were written. So if these songs were pushing his limits back then, it shouldn't be surprising that he has trouble with them now that he's soon 60-years old.

11 minutes ago, zigzagbigbag said:

Today’s YCBM does sound like shit. And, unfortunately, its not only YCBM that sounds like crap but the majority of a three hour show. Its not something I point out to troll or something

Well what can you do? The reality is that this forum's not gonna be anything but bitching and whining if everyone would be like you. Here we have a compilation of some of Axl's best vocal performances from the last 8 years or so. God forbid someone dares to speak positively about it and you start with your "are you people seriously saying Axl nailed Coma?" Then you continue whining about the last three minutes, even though Axl struggled with that part even in his peak. What's the point? His voice won't change if you complain about it. These videos are the absolute best that you can realistically expect from Axl at this day and age. If it makes you feel bad, I seriously encourage you to not watch videos of modern GNR cause it's never gonna sound better than this, unless they start playing new songs that fit Axl's current voice better.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

Well it didn't sound like the studio version and if you indeed have two intact ears, you know that. I'm not saying that it didn't sound good. I was just saying that he was really pushing his vocal capabilities to it's limits back then. So much that he couldn't even sing some of the songs when he was at his peak the way they were written. So if these songs were pushing his limits back then, it shouldn't be surprising that he has trouble with them now that he's soon 60-years old.

Well what can you do? The reality is that this forum's not gonna be anything but bitching and whining if everyone would be like you. Here we have a compilation of some of Axl's best vocal performances from the last 8 years or so. God forbid someone dares to speak positively about it and you start with your "are you people seriously saying Axl nailed Coma?" Then you continue whining about the last three minutes, even though Axl struggled with that part even in his peak. What's the point? His voice won't change if you complain about it. These videos are the absolute best that you can realistically expect from Axl at this day and age. If it makes you feel bad, I seriously encourage you to not watch videos of modern GNR cause it's never gonna sound better than this, unless they start playing new songs that fit Axl's current voice better.

 

 

 

Jesus, you don’t get it. 

 

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4 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

To me, the original is tasteful blues soloing that has some similarities to Slash (in that it's blues based) but in the points where Slash would fire off a fast lick, Robin goes for the Gilmour approach.

I don't think it's trying to be Slash. Slash's soloing on this song and better is one step ahead of DJ... at least DJ tried to learn it, but Slash is just a better player than DJ so that buts him through nonsense playing.

This is improvising / doodling, the other is a well defined solo with great feel and emotion. Slash's solo is completely forgettable.

That's your opinion, I have mine.

Yes it's an improvised solo by Slash and it happened to be still better than the well defined solo from the record. If you aren't able to feel the emotion in Slash's soloing than ok... it might not be your favorite guitar player. But he clearly hits me with every note, so there's no point to take this discussion any further, because you have your standpoint, which is totaly fine, but I have min, too.

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11 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

That's your opinion, I have mine.

Yes it's an improvised solo by Slash and it happened to be still better than the well defined solo from the record. If you aren't able to feel the emotion in Slash's soloing than ok... it might not be your favorite guitar player. But he clearly hits me with every note, so there's no point to take this discussion any further, because you have your standpoint, which is totaly fine, but I have min, too.

I love slash, absolutely love so many of his solos. One of my favourite players, but the man is not above playing something less than great.

Anyway  you're right, we're opposed on this and unlikely to agree😄

 

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5 hours ago, El Guapo said:

He wouldn't have to sing anything beside Sweet Child, Paradise City and Jungle if they would put out great new music he can actually sing well.

Jungle sounds good most of the time, Paradise City verses would sound cool with a deeper/ different voice and Sweet Child always sounded bad live anyway:D

They have to play more than those, imagine that was your first gnr show.

They can release an absolutely brilliant album but just like any other legacy band it will please fans like us, but the majority of concert goers won't be clued in about new songs and just want to relive 1989 again.

Agreed that SCOM has almost always been a bit shit live though😄

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I was still hoping they could become a real band again in 2016, but you're probably right. It's gonna be not much more than a lesser version of their former selves with the same old songs mainly. And Axl is no Tyler or Springsteen.  He's no Vince Neil either, not yet. He's somewhere in the middle.

And since they all don't seem to care too much we shouldn't either. 

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13 hours ago, El Guapo said:

There's a simple solution for this: Write some new, inspired songs that you can comfortably sing live and that fit and represent your current self. You know, like musicians do. 

 

worked for Robert Plant, he's no fool.

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12 hours ago, El Guapo said:

I was still hoping they could become a real band again in 2016, but you're probably right. It's gonna be not much more than a lesser version of their former selves with the same old songs mainly. And Axl is no Tyler or Springsteen.  He's no Vince Neil either, not yet. He's somewhere in the middle.

And since they all don't seem to care too much we shouldn't either. 

A friend of mine the other day (who very much isn't a GNR fan) said to me "well they're not really a band anymore are they?" 

He obviously follows nothing to do with them, so it's interesting that perception has made it's way to him. It's probably how most music fans view them now. We're probably the last to see it. 

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19 hours ago, UncleJosh said:

Fair enough but I didn't think any of those leaked songs were that great if I am honest.  I mean they were OK as leaked demos but I am not clamoring for them to be released or played live.  I listened to them a bunch when they were leaked then they went into storage on my hard drive.  I don't listen to any of them anymore like I do the official or live stuff which I listen to weekly if not daily.  Heck just the songs Chinese Democracy or Madagascar blew anything in those vault leaks away and I still witnessed mass exoduses to the concourse on both those songs when they played them live. 

I am a huge Metallica fan going back to Kill Em All days but I don't think they have put out anything that I connect with since ReLoad to be honest.  I can't think of one song released in the 2000's that I like ( I Disappear is from 2000 I guess but that is the last song). I know a lot of hardcore fans feel differently.  I mean I buy every single live release they put out including all their official boots but I skip over all those songs.  They just do nothing for me.  YMMV

Probably a moot point though because who knows if GN'R will even put anything out ever.  I hope they do and it is great of course. I don't mean to come off as shitting on any new music by any of these bands including GN'R even though it may come off that way. I do want it, my only point was that no matter how good hardcore fans may feel something is, it is almost impossible for the majority of live audiences to feel the same way about new material for legacy acts.  They will never replace the classic songs live.

 

 

Yeah, I agree with almost all of this apart from the Metallica stuff... I think all three metallica albums since 2000 have had some great songs, but I haven't loved any one of the albums as much as I loved those 80s and 90s albums, whether it was production issues, song writing or whatever. They are still great for fans though in terms of still releasing things and constantly having something different! so even if the album isn't my favourite they still keep you excited as a fan. I remember once in about 2015 i had the same feelings towards Metallica that i do for GNR, where it had been years since they released music and there was no sign of things changing... but then out of nowhere they dropped hardwired and alls well again!

As for the gnr and the leaks, the only one that I can easily remember is State of grace. Hardschool is a mess of a song, as are a lot of the other leaks... I could hear a good song in there somewhere but it would really need a lot of work! 

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I'm so happy that we got the greatest version of Coma in proshot quality. You compare it to any other 2016 performance and it's still better, and it's like a totally different band if you compare it to RIR 2017's version.

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6 minutes ago, GNRfanMILO said:

it's like a totally different band if you compare it to RIR 2017's version.

 

That performance was so bad, it was depressing to watch.

Both songs from Houston were great though. Hopefully we get more from that show eventually.

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1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

Yeah, I agree with almost all of this apart from the Metallica stuff... I think all three metallica albums since 2000 have had some great songs, but I haven't loved any one of the albums as much as I loved those 80s and 90s albums, whether it was production issues, song writing or whatever. They are still great for fans though in terms of still releasing things and constantly having something different! so even if the album isn't my favourite they still keep you excited as a fan. I remember once in about 2015 i had the same feelings towards Metallica that i do for GNR, where it had been years since they released music and there was no sign of things changing... but then out of nowhere they dropped hardwired and alls well again!

As for the gnr and the leaks, the only one that I can easily remember is State of grace. Hardschool is a mess of a song, as are a lot of the other leaks... I could hear a good song in there somewhere but it would really need a lot of work! 

I’m really surprised at this - IMO it’s one of the more straightforward songs on the leaks...I’d say the intro is divisive (although I personally like it)!! I think Hardschool is tremendous however...so maybe I’m biased...😂

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