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Riot shields or bust.  

Cant beleive its taken the band 3 months to do this, and Fernando only agreeing to do something like this when told to him directly by the fans. If GNR want to look at being a top tier band this

LARGER! LARGER TEXT!!! I CAN'T READ!!!

2 hours ago, JimiRose said:

I don't know why a band like GnR doesnt do exactly that, they love touring and want to tour to death and fill stadiums. Release the new album, like you say 90% of classic rock bands sales today come in the first 1/2 weeks, then announce the tour, but include an album with every ticket purchase. a 3 date UK stadium tour is 200k tickets sold. x that by 10 European countries, north america, south america and aus/nz and you're looking at a couple million extra album sales minimum across a world tour, and an almost guarantee that when you play the live songs, at least the crowd have heard them before.

Muse have done it every recent release. Big marketing for the first 2/3 weeks of album on sale, couple singles and vids before it's release, maybe even an interview! Then tour dates with an album included with the ticket. It's not hard. It's so easy, one could even say. 

MetallicA did it too - a copy of the album with the ticket. A great and simple idea AND it boosts the sales whilst letting folk know what the new material is like.

If only Lars managed GNR....😂

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Not sure how the current debate in this topic relates to Wichita...but anywho...

Releasing albums in the streaming era of rock music is just not very profitable for a band, not when it probably costs you more to make the album than twhat you'll earn on sales - and the fact that a band like Guns N' Roses can go on tours and still sell out venues just on their back catalogue alone. So why hurry with a new album??

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40 minutes ago, Nostalgia^ said:

Not sure how the current debate in this topic relates to Wichita...but anywho...

Releasing albums in the streaming era of rock music is just not very profitable for a band, not when it probably costs you more to make the album than twhat you'll earn on sales - and the fact that a band like Guns N' Roses can go on tours and still sell out venues just on their back catalogue alone. So why hurry with a new album??

So what is every other band in the world doing then?

They just like losing money repeatedly presumably? 

Better let Slash know though. He plans on releasing a new album soon. Give him a shout and tell him not to bother. 

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1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

The chances of guns releasing even one song that is viewed in the same league as of their old now classic songs is unlikely. 

Depends what classic songs we're talking about. Making a song that's bigger than SCOM is almost impossible. But making a song that's bigger than Yesterdays is entirely possible.

2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

What makes you think they won't bungle the marketing for a new record as bad as CD? 

When have I ever said that they won't bungle the marketing? I'm not making predictions here. I'm just saying that releasing their comeback album now is not a very good idea. If they play their cards right, there's a lot of potential in GNR still. But who know what's gonna happen.

2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

A  new album obviously helps when it comes to touring, give everything a bit more excitement yada, yada!

Exactly!

2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

The people who intended on buying your album have probably bought it within the 1st week these days. Outside of bands giving their albums alongside concert tickets it doesn't really move the  needle anymore. 

Well most people don't really buy albums these days, so I'm more interested in how many people will listen to their album on streaming services. Let's be real here for a second, most people who will listen to the next GNR record are casuals and not die hard fans. So no, most of their audience is definitely not people who buy their record within the 1st week. There's a huge number of casual fans of rock music, who probably haven't even heard that a new GNR album has been released within the 1st week. These are the people that they need to reach. And the more there's hype the more likely they will reach these people. If they want to release their comeback album in a big way, they need to get people to talk about the album. One way to get people to talk about the album is to announce a tour. When there's tour advertisements here and there, people will talk about it. Someone might mention that their friend is really excited about the GNR tour. Then the other person will ask, "did you hear the new GNR single?" Through this kind of chit chat most people will first hear about the album. If they want people to talk about the new GNR album, GNR has to be everywhere. Their music should be in movies and maybe even in videogames, there should be a tour that makes people talk about GNR too. One of the essential differences between releasing an album during a pandemic and releasing an album in normal circumstances, is the fact that in normal circumstances people spend a lot more time with their friends. In normal circumstances people are constantly visiting their friends and having parties. Then someone might start playing the new GNR album and that's one way the album will find new audiences.

Simply put, it's a much better time to release a new album, when there's no pandemic going on. It should be pretty obvious and I don't know why people act like it's a controversial statement. :lol:

2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Finally, IF they release a good/great album that excitement doesn't just disappear!

Do you understand anything about psychology? Of course the excitement will mostly disappear if the band doesn't tour after the album has been released. Well obviously it depends on the person. Some (mainly die hard fans) will be super stoked when the band finally starts to tour, but for others the excitement has passed already. When the album is new and people are super excited about it, they're more likely to buy tickets without hesitation. If the band starts to tour a long time after the excitement has worn off already, people are more likely to focus on other things that are more relevant at that moment and their less likely to buy tickets to the shows.  You gotta strike while the iron is hot.

I feel like I've said everything I have to say about this topic. People have a weird tendency to assume that if I defend GNR on one issue (not releasing their comeback album during a pandemic) that must mean that I defend GNR on every issue and ignore all the faults that the band has ever done.

No, I think it's a reasonable excuse to not release one of your most important records at the worst possible time, but I'm not claiming that they will handle the release of the next GNR properly. I can't see the future. If they start touring again at some point and there's no new music in sight, I think they deserve all the criticism they get. At that point it's fair to say that the band is a nostalgia act and nothing else. But not releasing their comeback album during a pandemic is a wise choice if you ask me.

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8 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

...excitement will mostly disappear if the band doesn't tour after the album has been released. Well obviously it depends on the person. Some (mainly die hard fans) will be super stoked when the band finally starts to tour, but for others the excitement has passed already. When the album is new and people are super excited about it, they're more likely to buy tickets without hesitation. If the band starts to tour a long time after the excitement has worn off already, people are more likely to focus on other things that are more relevant at that moment and their less likely to buy tickets to the shows.  You gotta strike while the iron is hot.

Depends on the music and the integrity of the artist behind it. Until recently, GNR was successfully touring behind albums that have been released decades ago. Your point is totally valid for Justin Bieber but not for acts like GNR. If they release an album during the pandemic while people have nothing to do, do home office, lose their jobs or just be bored to exhaustion in quarantine, they will come to appreciate the music even more as it may grow on them beyond the flavour of the day and agressive marketing shoves down their throats, Actually, now is the perfect time to release music of substance as people have time to let it sink in.

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2 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

The numbers would be bigger for GNR, but the general sentiment is the same. It won't be as good as their early albums, it will still be successful, and it won't have any grand effect one way or the other on GNR's legacy.

An album released by 60-year-olds who are 3+ decades into their careers isn't going to be nearly as important as you'd like to believe. It's simply not going to "add to their legacy" or "create rock history" or anything dramatic like that.

Unlike you I'm not pretending to know the future and everything. What I'm saying is that they could still make songs that will be remembered as some of their best songs. They can still make an impact in the bands legacy both in positive and negative ways. I'm not saying that any of this will happen. I'm saying that it could happen. You're the only wannabe know it all here thinking that you know how things will go eventually.

Many artists have released some of their biggest hits when they were older. Hurt is by far the most streamed song by Johnny Cash and he was 71 when he released that song. My Way is one of Frank Sinatras biggest songs and he was 54 years old when he released that song. Cher had her biggest hit at the age of 52. Louis Armstrong was 66 years old when he recorded What A Wonderful World. It makes no sense to me that you act like you know exactly what Axl and Slash are capable of.

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1 minute ago, Lies They Tell said:

Unlike you I'm not pretending to know the future and everything. What I'm saying is that they could still make songs that will be remembered as some of their best songs. They can still make an impact in the bands legacy both in positive and negative ways. I'm not saying that any of this will happen. I'm saying that it could happen. You're the only wannabe know it all here thinking that you know how things will go eventually.

Many artists have released some of their biggest hits when they were older. Hurt is by far the most streamed song by Johnny Cash and he was 71 when he released that song. My Way is one of Frank Sinatras biggest songs and he was 54 years old when he released that song. Cher had her biggest hit at the age of 52. Louis Armstrong was 66 years old when he recorded What A Wonderful World. It makes no sense to me that you act like you know exactly what Axl and Slash are capable of.

 

We agree that they could still write some great songs. They could put out a really great album. But at this stage of their careers, unless one of them dies right after it's released, their legacy will always be AFD and UYI.

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1 minute ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

We agree that they could still write some great songs. They could put out a really great album. But at this stage of their careers, unless one of them dies right after it's released, their legacy will always be AFD and UYI.

Let's agree to disagree then. I don't think we can predict the future. I don't think either one needs to die necessarily for them to affect their legacy. Time will tell how things will go eventually, but I don't think we can predict it.

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2 hours ago, Nostalgia^ said:

Not sure how the current debate in this topic relates to Wichita...but anywho...

Releasing albums in the streaming era of rock music is just not very profitable for a band, not when it probably costs you more to make the album than twhat you'll earn on sales - and the fact that a band like Guns N' Roses can go on tours and still sell out venues just on their back catalogue alone. So why hurry with a new album??

So every other rock band are just throwing money away by actually releasing new music? What idiots! Thanks for letting us know how smart GnR are, releasing 1 original album in 29 years. Foo Fighters, Metallica, Muse, ACDC look so silly now with all these great albums fans love and sell out stadiums with. 

When did Team Brazil plant you in this forum? 

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35 minutes ago, adamsapple said:

Depends on the music and the integrity of the artist behind it. Until recently, GNR was successfully touring behind albums that have been released decades ago. Your point is totally valid for Justin Bieber but not for acts like GNR. If they release an album during the pandemic while people have nothing to do, do home office, lose their jobs or just be bored to exhaustion in quarantine, they will come to appreciate the music even more as it may grow on them beyond the flavour of the day and agressive marketing shoves down their throats, Actually, now is the perfect time to release music of substance as people have time to let it sink in.

I get your point but I disagree. I mean sure, they could release the album during the pandemic and sure they could make a somewhat successful tour afterwards.  But I don't think it would be as impactful as if they released the comeback album after the pandemic. If they released the album during the pandemic, it would be kinda like the Chinese Democracy situation. There were lots of die hard GNR fans who were super stoked to hear the songs finally played live. But Chinese Democracy didn't attract all that many casuals, because there was so little hype around it when it was released.

If they want to continue selling out stadiums, I believe that they need to attract casual people more. And the best way to do that is by generating as much hype as possible. You need to get people to talk about GNR. You can't really do that properly when everyone's in quarantine.

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1 hour ago, JimiRose said:

So every other rock band are just throwing money away by actually releasing new music? What idiots! Thanks for letting us know how smart GnR are, releasing 1 original album in 29 years. Foo Fighters, Metallica, Muse, ACDC look so silly now with all these great albums fans love and sell out stadiums with. 

When did Team Brazil plant you in this forum? 

What can I tell you that you didn't already point out yourself. You mention AC/DC who has released 3 albums in 20 years...Metallica, 3 albums in 20 years. And no live albums don't count. Can't you see where thing are goin? The days (like back in the 80s and 90s's ) of NEEDing to put out a new album and then promotng/touring that album are long gone.

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1 hour ago, Lies They Tell said:

Depends what classic songs we're talking about. Making a song that's bigger than SCOM is almost impossible. But making a song that's bigger than Yesterdays is entirely possible.

When have I ever said that they won't bungle the marketing? I'm not making predictions here. I'm just saying that releasing their comeback album now is not a very good idea. If they play their cards right, there's a lot of potential in GNR still. But who know what's gonna happen.

Exactly!

Well most people don't really buy albums these days, so I'm more interested in how many people will listen to their album on streaming services. Let's be real here for a second, most people who will listen to the next GNR record are casuals and not die hard fans. So no, most of their audience is definitely not people who buy their record within the 1st week. There's a huge number of casual fans of rock music, who probably haven't even heard that a new GNR album has been released within the 1st week. These are the people that they need to reach. And the more there's hype the more likely they will reach these people. If they want to release their comeback album in a big way, they need to get people to talk about the album. One way to get people to talk about the album is to announce a tour. When there's tour advertisements here and there, people will talk about it. Someone might mention that their friend is really excited about the GNR tour. Then the other person will ask, "did you hear the new GNR single?" Through this kind of chit chat most people will first hear about the album. If they want people to talk about the new GNR album, GNR has to be everywhere. Their music should be in movies and maybe even in videogames, there should be a tour that makes people talk about GNR too. One of the essential differences between releasing an album during a pandemic and releasing an album in normal circumstances, is the fact that in normal circumstances people spend a lot more time with their friends. In normal circumstances people are constantly visiting their friends and having parties. Then someone might start playing the new GNR album and that's one way the album will find new audiences.

Simply put, it's a much better time to release a new album, when there's no pandemic going on. It should be pretty obvious and I don't know why people act like it's a controversial statement. :lol:

Do you understand anything about psychology? Of course the excitement will mostly disappear if the band doesn't tour after the album has been released. Well obviously it depends on the person. Some (mainly die hard fans) will be super stoked when the band finally starts to tour, but for others the excitement has passed already. When the album is new and people are super excited about it, they're more likely to buy tickets without hesitation. If the band starts to tour a long time after the excitement has worn off already, people are more likely to focus on other things that are more relevant at that moment and their less likely to buy tickets to the shows.  You gotta strike while the iron is hot.

I feel like I've said everything I have to say about this topic. People have a weird tendency to assume that if I defend GNR on one issue (not releasing their comeback album during a pandemic) that must mean that I defend GNR on every issue and ignore all the faults that the band has ever done.

No, I think it's a reasonable excuse to not release one of your most important records at the worst possible time, but I'm not claiming that they will handle the release of the next GNR properly. I can't see the future. If they start touring again at some point and there's no new music in sight, I think they deserve all the criticism they get. At that point it's fair to say that the band is a nostalgia act and nothing else. But not releasing their comeback album during a pandemic is a wise choice if you ask me.

Funny you mentioned psychology and yet you underestimate people's connection to songs like Yesterday or or whatever other deep cut from 30yrs ago. Those songs have history and most people have memories attached to hearing them for the first time or hearing them at a specific moment. I loved the last Metallica album, I really like Moth Into Flame and think it's a great song as good as a lot of their other material! it's about as good as Holier than thou... but when push comes to shove, Holier than thou is going to prevail! if I have to make my top 50 favourite songs from them. 

You keep saying it's the worst time to release a record, but I and many others have pointed out that it's actually a great time to do it, I really don't get how you can't understand that. "Their most important album of their career'... that has already happened. AFD is and was the most important record in their career. A new record doesn't make much difference to their career (no it won't course correct and make them the new Stones) outside of the incredibly unlikely possibility that they make a solid 10/10 where every song is a top 10 hit. I want to hear new GNR music, but I perfectly understand that it will be forgotten, just like Black Sabbaths 13. A reunion record that was anticipated for 30 years? it got some media up front and then slowly but surely once radio didn't really support it (as radio does for all old rock bands) it fell off the face of the earth. GNRs fate will be the same, and you are delusional to think it'll be different whether they release it today or in a years time when touring freely is allowed. 

Also, you're saying "if they tour with no new music when they come back I'll criticise them" I mean, where have you been all this time? every leg that same thing is said. Then they go away for a few months, people get excited and then someone drops the line... sure enough, no new music. Rise repeat. Just criticise them now, get the jump on them! 

I won't change your mind! AND there's also no hope of GNR releasing new music anytime soon so the best thing to do is agree to disagree. peace 😃

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56 minutes ago, Nostalgia^ said:

What can I tell you that you didn't already point out yourself. You mention AC/DC who has released 3 albums in 20 years...Metallica, 3 albums in 20 years. And no live albums don't count. Can't you see where thing are goin? The days (like back in the 80s and 90s's ) of NEEDing to put out a new album and then promotng/touring that album are long gone.

3 albums in 20 years. ACDC is 4, foo fighters 7. But let's not nitpick. Not 1 in 29 years though? How many Have Metallica released in 29 years? No one needs to put out an album, but in that case the world of music would cease to exist, so a rather redundant point to make. 

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2 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Funny you mentioned psychology and yet you underestimate people's connection to songs like Yesterday or or whatever other deep cut from 30yrs ago. Those songs have history and most people have memories attached to hearing them for the first time or hearing them at a specific moment. I loved the last Metallica album, I really like Moth Into Flame and think it's a great song as good as a lot of their other material! it's about as good as Holier than thou... but when push comes to shove, Holier than thou is going to prevail! if I have to make my top 50 favourite songs from them. 

But I'm not underestimating anyone's connection to any song. One of the main reasons why I think that they should release the comeback album after the pandemic is over is because that way people have the chance to enjoy the songs more fully.  They can make roadtrips with their friends and listen to the new album on the road. They can have parties and discover the album there. People can have fond memories of going to their first GNR concert and hearing all the brand new GNR songs there. You get much richer memories from the songs when you can connect the release of the GNR comeback album to a happier time in your life. You don't get all that interesting memories from the songs, if you just listen to the album bored at home in quarantine.

You see, the connection argument applies just as well to the new songs. That is one reason why it would be madness to release the album now because people won't associate the songs to great memories when they're just sitting at home. The album would have much stronger impact if they release it after the pandemic is over.

You say that people have strong emotional connections to the deep cuts from 30 years ago and because of that new GNR material can never compete with that. What if I told you that This I Love is already a more popular song than Coma or Double Talkin Jive? This I Love has over 21 million streams on Spotify and Coma has over 12 million streams. Double Talkin Jive has over 13 million streams. And This I Love isn't the only song from CD that beats those deep cuts. Chinese Democracy and Better have 18 million streams. In fact most songs from the Use Your Illusion albums have less streams than these Chinese Democracy songs. So if Chinese Democracy, an album without Slash, and an album that wasn't hyped much after it's release, still manages to compete with the Use Your Illusion albums, why do you think it's far fetched to think that a new GNR album with Slash and Duff could fair even better?

20 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

You keep saying it's the worst time to release a record, but I and many others have pointed out that it's actually a great time to do it, I really don't get how you can't understand that.

If you've read all my counter arguments, you know why I disagree. You need much better arguments to convince me. 

24 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I want to hear new GNR music, but I perfectly understand that it will be forgotten, just like Black Sabbaths 13. A reunion record that was anticipated for 30 years? it got some media up front and then slowly but surely once radio didn't really support it (as radio does for all old rock bands) it fell off the face of the earth. GNRs fate will be the same, and you are delusional to think it'll be different whether they release it today or in a years time when touring freely is allowed. 

Black Sabbaths 13 is a good record, but it's a pretty typical Black Sabbath record. It's not surprising that the album is largely forgotten because it doesn't really bring much new to the table. If you want to make iconic songs that stand the test of time, you should do something differently. Black Sabbath became popular in the 70s because it was something totally different that nobody had heard before. But you can't make timeless songs by doing the same thing over and over again. Chinese Democracy is a more streamed album than Black Sabbath's 13. The main reason for that is of course the fact that Guns n' Roses is in general a more streamed band than Black Sabbath. Black Sabbath has almost 8 million monthly listeners. Guns N' Roses has over 18 million monthly listeners.  I think it's safe to say that the next GNR album will be more popular than Chinese Democracy because Slash is back, so because of that reason alone people will be much more responsive towards the album. And if they actually promote the album and tour and all that jazz, it could be a much more popular album compared to CD. So based on all that it's very likely that the next GNR album will be a much more popular album than Black Sabbaths 13.  

The reason why I have faith that GNR could still release an album that will go down in history and won't be forgotten is because Axl doesn't really repeat himself much. He actually tries to reinvent himself. Sorry was unlike anything we had heard from GNR before. This I Love was unlike anything we had heard from GNR before. Better was unlike anything we had heard from GNR before. Even unreleased songs like Atlas Shrugged sound different compared to anything we've heard from GNR before. This is the reason why I believe that GNR could still deliver an album that will be remembered, because almost every song that Axl writes sounds different from other songs that he has written. When you combine Axl's songwriting skills with Slash's ability to create iconic guitar solos, there's an enormous amount of potential there.

None of us can predict the future and it would be delusional to think that you can. It's true that the mainstream radio doesn't really play rock music much these days and even rock music stations usually just play the old stuff. But I still don't think that it's impossible that GNR could write an album that will go down in history.  I mean there's people on this forum who consider Chinese Democracy the best GNR album of all times. So there's a good chance that a lot more people will consider the next GNR album the best GNR record ever because it's much more socially acceptable in the rock scene to love a GNR album that has Slash on it. There's a chance that the next GNR album won't be appreciated all that much when it's released, but as time goes by, it will gain more and more fans and some day many of the songs on that album might be among the most streamed GNR songs. All of this is of course speculation, but you only need to look at the streaming numbers of Chinese Democracy songs to see that what I'm saying is not far fetched.

It's a fact that This I Love is a more streamed song than Locomotive, 14 Years or Pretty Tied Up. It's something that you people just have to learn to deal with. I mentioned earlier that it's perfectly possible that GNR could still write a song that's more popular than Yesterdays. Well Yesterdays has 31 million streams and This I Love has 21 million streams., so even This I Love is already pretty close to breaking Yesterdays's streaming numbers. Is it really far fetched to think that with a lot of hype and with Slash's input they could write a song that is more popular than Yesterdays? I'll tell you, it's not.

2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

A new record doesn't make much difference to their career (no it won't course correct and make them the new Stones)

Guns N' Roses will never be considered as important as The Rolling Stones, but they are already almost as popular, when it comes to streaming numbers. The Rolling Stones has currently 18 921 530 monthly listeners and Guns N' Roses has 18 236 734 monthly listeners. I'd say it's safe to assume that GNR will take the lead when they release their next album. Of course that doesn't actually make them the new Stones. I'm just saying that GNR is a very big band with lots of potential. I'm not expecting miracles from them, but it's not far fetched to think that they might still do great things that will leave an impact on their legacy.

2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Also, you're saying "if they tour with no new music when they come back I'll criticise them" I mean, where have you been all this time? every leg that same thing is said. Then they go away for a few months, people get excited and then someone drops the line... sure enough, no new music. Rise repeat. Just criticise them now, get the jump on them! 

I've been here all the time. Sometimes I've criticized them and sometimes I've defended them. I think it was very understandable that they couldn't release a new album right after the reunion. It would've been dumb to release a Buckethead GNR album without Slash and Duff in the middle of a reunion. But remaking the album with Slash and Duff takes time, especially if they want to write brand new songs for the album too. So it's understandable that they didn't release a new album right away. But as the tour continued and there was no sign of a new album I got frustrated too and I've criticized them. I've been vocal about the fact that I'll never go to a GNR show again, before they release a new album. But when they rehearsed Hard School at the start of this year they kinda earned my trust again. We actually know that they were planning to play a new song. This pandemic of course sucks, but I can't blame them for not releasing the album now.  I wouldn't release the album while there's a pandemic either. But if they start touring with no signs of new music then I'll criticize them again. It's really simple. I criticize them when I feel like they deserve to be criticized.

2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

best thing to do is agree to disagree. peace 😃

Sure! Peace!

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This is the best time to release music. Nobody cares about the album/tour pairing anymore unless you are a newer artist releasing prime stuff in real time. It's an antiquated structure, otherwise. Its fine, but the two no longer really depend on each other for legacy acts

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19 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

But I'm not underestimating anyone's connection to any song. One of the main reasons why I think that they should release the comeback album after the pandemic is over is because that way people have the chance to enjoy the songs more fully.  They can make roadtrips with their friends and listen to the new album on the road. They can have parties and discover the album there. People can have fond memories of going to their first GNR concert and hearing all the brand new GNR songs there. You get much richer memories from the songs when you can connect the release of the GNR comeback album to a happier time in your life. You don't get all that interesting memories from the songs, if you just listen to the album bored at home in quarantine.

You see, the connection argument applies just as well to the new songs. That is one reason why it would be madness to release the album now because people won't associate the songs to great memories when they're just sitting at home. The album would have much stronger impact if they release it after the pandemic is over.

You say that people have strong emotional connections to the deep cuts from 30 years ago and because of that new GNR material can never compete with that. What if I told you that This I Love is already a more popular song than Coma or Double Talkin Jive? This I Love has over 21 million streams on Spotify and Coma has over 12 million streams. Double Talkin Jive has over 13 million streams. And This I Love isn't the only song from CD that beats those deep cuts. Chinese Democracy and Better have 18 million streams. In fact most songs from the Use Your Illusion albums have less streams than these Chinese Democracy songs. So if Chinese Democracy, an album without Slash, and an album that wasn't hyped much after it's release, still manages to compete with the Use Your Illusion albums, why do you think it's far fetched to think that a new GNR album with Slash and Duff could fair even better?

If you've read all my counter arguments, you know why I disagree. You need much better arguments to convince me. 

Black Sabbaths 13 is a good record, but it's a pretty typical Black Sabbath record. It's not surprising that the album is largely forgotten because it doesn't really bring much new to the table. If you want to make iconic songs that stand the test of time, you should do something differently. Black Sabbath became popular in the 70s because it was something totally different that nobody had heard before. But you can't make timeless songs by doing the same thing over and over again. Chinese Democracy is a more streamed album than Black Sabbath's 13. The main reason for that is of course the fact that Guns n' Roses is in general a more streamed band than Black Sabbath. Black Sabbath has almost 8 million monthly listeners. Guns N' Roses has over 18 million monthly listeners.  I think it's safe to say that the next GNR album will be more popular than Chinese Democracy because Slash is back, so because of that reason alone people will be much more responsive towards the album. And if they actually promote the album and tour and all that jazz, it could be a much more popular album compared to CD. So based on all that it's very likely that the next GNR album will be a much more popular album than Black Sabbaths 13.  

The reason why I have faith that GNR could still release an album that will go down in history and won't be forgotten is because Axl doesn't really repeat himself much. He actually tries to reinvent himself. Sorry was unlike anything we had heard from GNR before. This I Love was unlike anything we had heard from GNR before. Better was unlike anything we had heard from GNR before. Even unreleased songs like Atlas Shrugged sound different compared to anything we've heard from GNR before. This is the reason why I believe that GNR could still deliver an album that will be remembered, because almost every song that Axl writes sounds different from other songs that he has written. When you combine Axl's songwriting skills with Slash's ability to create iconic guitar solos, there's an enormous amount of potential there.

None of us can predict the future and it would be delusional to think that you can. It's true that the mainstream radio doesn't really play rock music much these days and even rock music stations usually just play the old stuff. But I still don't think that it's impossible that GNR could write an album that will go down in history.  I mean there's people on this forum who consider Chinese Democracy the best GNR album of all times. So there's a good chance that a lot more people will consider the next GNR album the best GNR record ever because it's much more socially acceptable in the rock scene to love a GNR album that has Slash on it. There's a chance that the next GNR album won't be appreciated all that much when it's released, but as time goes by, it will gain more and more fans and some day many of the songs on that album might be among the most streamed GNR songs. All of this is of course speculation, but you only need to look at the streaming numbers of Chinese Democracy songs to see that what I'm saying is not far fetched.

It's a fact that This I Love is a more streamed song than Locomotive, 14 Years or Pretty Tied Up. It's something that you people just have to learn to deal with. I mentioned earlier that it's perfectly possible that GNR could still write a song that's more popular than Yesterdays. Well Yesterdays has 31 million streams and This I Love has 21 million streams., so even This I Love is already pretty close to breaking Yesterdays's streaming numbers. Is it really far fetched to think that with a lot of hype and with Slash's input they could write a song that is more popular than Yesterdays? I'll tell you, it's not.

Guns N' Roses will never be considered as important as The Rolling Stones, but they are already almost as popular, when it comes to streaming numbers. The Rolling Stones has currently 18 921 530 monthly listeners and Guns N' Roses has 18 236 734 monthly listeners. I'd say it's safe to assume that GNR will take the lead when they release their next album. Of course that doesn't actually make them the new Stones. I'm just saying that GNR is a very big band with lots of potential. I'm not expecting miracles from them, but it's not far fetched to think that they might still do great things that will leave an impact on their legacy.

I've been here all the time. Sometimes I've criticized them and sometimes I've defended them. I think it was very understandable that they couldn't release a new album right after the reunion. It would've been dumb to release a Buckethead GNR album without Slash and Duff in the middle of a reunion. But remaking the album with Slash and Duff takes time, especially if they want to write brand new songs for the album too. So it's understandable that they didn't release a new album right away. But as the tour continued and there was no sign of a new album I got frustrated too and I've criticized them. I've been vocal about the fact that I'll never go to a GNR show again, before they release a new album. But when they rehearsed Hard School at the start of this year they kinda earned my trust again. We actually know that they were planning to play a new song. This pandemic of course sucks, but I can't blame them for not releasing the album now.  I wouldn't release the album while there's a pandemic either. But if they start touring with no signs of new music then I'll criticize them again. It's really simple. I criticize them when I feel like they deserve to be criticized.

Sure! Peace!

Tell me how many times Yesterdays has been played on Cassette, mp3, cd, vinyl too while you're at it. Streaming stats are one large piece of the pie, but they don't give the entire story! especially not for a band with fans who's ages span from 3-80yrs or more! 

As for Black Sabbath making a 'safe' record, that's beside the point when you consider that the fans wanted them to make that style of record. Of course reaching for new heights of exploration can be fruitful, but GNRs fans are largely like Black Sabbath's and they just want to hear SCOM or even Yesterdays again! I welcome new styles! I'll listen to it all! GNRs fanbase largely want what they know - the fans on forums like this are the exception! and even some of the people here hate when GNR have changed up their direction!

As for This I love, I'm not sure who the 'You' are that you lumped me in with, but I have never criticised the song outside Slash's crap solos on it, or Axls shit live performances. I've also never once argued about it's popularity, I've been at the gigs and for a relatively unknown song it gets a pop.... well it gets a pop if Axl is on form! if he is singing poorly the song goes in one ear, out the other! Can GNR hypothetically come up with a song that fans (beyond hardcore fans) enjoy? sure! it is however very rare for a legacy act to get a new song over enough, that it remains a staple of a set. Time will tell on that one, but yes it's possible.

As for them rehearsing Hardschool. Yes, that is positive! BUT all throughout the 2009-2014 touring unreleased or rare tracks were rehearsed Oh my god, Going down etc. and none of them were performed. That Axl rehearsed Hardschool made me think too that he was preparing to play it live in the very near future... but we've all been here long enough to know that getting your hopes up is a fools game when GNR are involved.

Anyway! we've made peace but I had to answer a few of your comments😅✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️

 

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12 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Anyway! we've made peace but I had to answer a few of your comments😅✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️

 

That's the thing! It's difficult to agree to disagree, when the conversation is still in many ways unfinished. But don't worry. I won't make this a long response. Just wanted to clear up a couple of things.

I don't think my comments about Black Sabbaths safe record were besides the point. Sure, the fanbase wanted that kind of a record, but you can't make timeless music if you're too concerned with pleasing fans. There's nothing wrong with focusing on pleasing fans only, but that kind of safe music will not be remebered for long

Every band will always be criticized by their fans for trying something new, but if you want to make timeless music you gotta create something new instead of repeating yourself.

I know that many GNR fans also want an AFD2. It's not easy to balance between creating something fresh and interesting and keeping your fanbase happy. But as long as Slash brings his signature sound to the songs, I believe that the fanbase will be more responsive towards the next GNR album. So hopefully they'll find a good balance between Axl's desire to not repeat himself and Slash's familiar guitar sounds.

The Hard School rehersal was different compared to all the Going Down stuff before, since back then we didn't really know if Axl was ever even involved with those rehearsals or if it was just the band. But this time we heard the whole band, including Axl practicing Hard School, so that was neat.

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58 minutes ago, allwaystired said:

Oh please stop with the 'stramimg numbers' thing.

It's thorough nonsense to say that anything on CD comes anywhere near any of their previous material in terms of fans, and I say that as a big fan of CD.  

Steaming is an utterly discredited way of giving the popularity of anything.....as the notion that 'This I Love' is more popular than older material quite clearly shows. 

The waffle about GNR being as big as the Rolling Stones because of streaming numbers is even more fucking ludicrous. Has it not occured to you that perhaps all the billions and billions of Rolling Stones fans might not be streaming them day in day out and perhaps playing their billions and billions of owned albums? You seem absolutely OBSESSED with streaming figures as proof of everything. Who the hell is gauging how popular Black Sabbath are in 2020 by how many monthly listeners they have?! 

Springsteen sold 52,000 copies of his new album in the first week of release. One of the fastest selling albums of the year. 95 per cent of that was physical purchases, so in his case streaming is utterly irrelevant as his fans prefer to buy. A success of an album that went to number one. Streaming? Fuck all. I imagine he couldn't give a flying fuck about that. 

There are many cases like this, that run both ways, so for the love of God please stop telling people obvious nonsense like 'This I Love' is more popular than 'Pretty Tied Up'. It's not a 'fact' in any way shape or form. 

Copies of UYI and AFD sit in millions of homes. Copies of CD do not. There's a fact for you. 

 

 

I knew someone would get triggered.  :P But please respond to me if you're talking to me. I almost didn't even see your message cause I don't read every single message here.

Streaming numbers tell a lot about the future and what old music resonates with the younger generations. 

I'm sorry that I wasn't more clear with what I meant. I had no intention to ignore all the wonderful people who listen to albums. I'm perfectly aware that a huge amount of Rolling Stones and Bruce Springsteen fans only listen to albums and they don't stream music. 

And I know that many GNR fans too only listen to albums and in that sense streaming numbers don't tell you the whole truth about what songs are currently the most popular GNR songs.

My focus in these discussions isn't really on what happens to be the biggest band right now and what has been the biggest band before. I'm not really interested in what songs have traditionally been the most popular songs. I'm focusing on the future. I'm interested in what type of music is timeless and what type of old music even younger generations listen to.

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25 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

I knew someone would get triggered.  :P But please respond to me if you're talking to me. I almost didn't even see your message cause I don't read every single message here.

Streaming numbers tell a lot about the future and what old music resonates with the younger generations. 

I'm sorry that I wasn't more clear with what I meant. I had no intention to ignore all the wonderful people who listen to albums. I'm perfectly aware that a huge amount of Rolling Stones and Bruce Springsteen fans only listen to albums and they don't stream music. 

And I know that many GNR fans too only listen to albums and in that sense streaming numbers don't tell you the whole truth about what songs are currently the most popular GNR songs.

My focus in these discussions isn't really on what happens to be the biggest band right now and what has been the biggest band before. I'm not really interested in what songs have traditionally been the most popular songs. I'm focusing on the future. I'm interested in what type of music is timeless and what type of old music even younger generations listen to.

I'm still not too sure what your point is then......we know that a handful of GNR songs have slipped into the 80s kareoke bar nostalgia scene, for better or worse. That isn't really a revelation for anyone. 

If we think anyone outside of an increasingly small (dwindling by the day) hardcore of fans really care about a new GNR album we're deluding ourselves. Literally no-one I know that loves music could care a damn what GNR do. The forums are the only place that does now. 

The real world probably lost interest about 1993, when the music world moved on to other acts. A few of them stuck their heads round the door to play nostalgia and hear the old songs on the NITL tour. They've largely moved on now.

If we think a new GNR album is going to change music in any way, shape or form, we're in cloud cuckoo land. That's irrelevant though- we'd probably enjoy it. But let's not kid ourselves here about it's importance.

If the damn thing exists, just get it out there. 

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I listened to this again. This band do a great Wichita Lineman and Slash really shines on it at the end. The likelihood of me watching these again are very slim, the one's I have continuously went back to is the Houston and Mexico performances from 2016. For the time that it takes to get these things out to us, I'd appreciate if more time was spent picking out the best performances that capture all of the band on form, which 2016 will have an abundance of. 

I'd appreciate This I Love from FedEx Field (Slash's best solo this tour IMO) and Sorry from Dodger Stadium 2016.

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52 minutes ago, Dean said:

I listened to this again. This band do a great Wichita Lineman and Slash really shines on it at the end. The likelihood of me watching these again are very slim, the one's I have continuously went back to is the Houston and Mexico performances from 2016. For the time that it takes to get these things out to us, I'd appreciate if more time was spent picking out the best performances that capture all of the band on form, which 2016 will have an abundance of. 

I'd appreciate This I Love from FedEx Field (Slash's best solo this tour IMO) and Sorry from Dodger Stadium 2016.

Spot on mate. They maybe want to showcase the full tour so can understand whey there is 2018/19 stuff in there but they need to be more clever with what they show. I agree - Wichita is good. But they needed to go to the staples like ISE etc at this point as that is good regardless off the year. The harder ones like Rocket Queen etc should have been culled from the 2016 shows as opposed to 2018.

I know some folk would say - what are you moaning about...it’s official GNR footage for free etc......I just want the band to be shown in a good light with killer performances (because the best representations of most of the songs are from 2016/17). And we’d all pay for that if given the opportunity......

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11 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Spot on mate. They maybe want to showcase the full tour so can understand whey there is 2018/19 stuff in there but they need to be more clever with what they show. I agree - Wichita is good. But they needed to go to the staples like ISE etc at this point as that is good regardless off the year. The harder ones like Rocket Queen etc should have been culled from the 2016 shows as opposed to 2018.

I know some folk would say - what are you moaning about...it’s official GNR footage for free etc......I just want the band to be shown in a good light with killer performances (because the best representations of most of the songs are from 2016/17). And we’d all pay for that if given the opportunity......

100%

There are obviously good options to choose from beyond 2017, they should have shown more TLC in regards to what they show to display to the masses of casual fans that attend these shows. Anything from the first 5 songs would be the safest bet for that, Axl normally hits that home every show. Even when it came to promoting the Appetite for Democracy release, why they went for Sweet Child O' Mine and You Could Be Mine to upload for advertisement purposes is beyond me as a lot of the comments on those videos weren't exactly favorable. I'll be interested to see if Fernando makes an appearance on Reddit again before the year is out - if they weren't going to release an album during the pandemic, then a live release would have made perfect sense which is what made me think his words carried some weight when there was a release coming out "later this year".  Tomorrow takes us into December and as the days pass, this becomes increasingly unlikely. 

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