Tracii Guns

[Sosso]

I never understood all the hate he got. Sure, he was only for a couple of months in GN'R but he was in a couple of great bands (L.A. Guns, Brides of Destruction, etc.). 

Makes me wonder how fans even came to that conclusion. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Sosso

[Duda_Motta]

Acho os riffs dele incríveis, pena que o trabalho dele com o Gilby Clarke não se prolongou.

[-W.A.R-]

Why do fans hate Ole Beich? never understood that.

[Gibsonfender2323]

2 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

Why do fans hate Ole Beich? never understood that.

Why do people hate Axl's great great great great grandfather never understood that.

[Sosso]

Sorry, I thought that I'm in a forum with adult people. 

[soon]

1 hour ago, Sosso said:

I never understood all the hate he got. Sure, he was only for a couple of months in GN'R but he was in a couple of great bands (L.A. Guns, Brides of Destruction, etc.). 

Makes me wonder how fans even came to that conclusion. 

I bet to some extent it’s just down to Tracii being at odds with Guns?

(^^ ha, now there’s an interesting sentence - makes me understand why Tracii asked them for his name back!)

But I figure some fans just see it as like, if Axl and Slash aren’t buddies with him, then he’s a pariah?

[KeyserSoze]

to me, he comes off as the guy who didn't have faith in Axl or the OG band. Its probably hard to swallow being the one band that you weren't cut out for was the best selling band of that genre and generation. I mean hell, Tracii has spent 30+ years trying to prove he is better than Slash

Edited June 13, 2020 by KeyserSoze

[Live Like a Suicide]

3 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

to me, he comes off as the guy who didn't have faith in Axl or the OG band. Its probably hard to swallow being the one band that you weren't cut out for was the best selling band of that genre and generation. I mean hell, Tracii has spent 30+ years trying to prove he is better than Slash

It's probably equally painful that he co-founded the band and it proceeded with his name while without his involvement.

[SOH]

Just now, Live Like a Suicide said:

It's probably equally painful that he co-founded the band and it proceeded with his name while without his involvement.

Not as bad as David Lee Roth convincing Eddie to change the name to "Van Halen" then wishing he could take it with him when he left.

[MaskingApathy]

41 minutes ago, KeyserSoze said:

to me, he comes off as the guy who didn't have faith in Axl or the OG band. Its probably hard to swallow being the one band that you weren't cut out for was the best selling band of that genre and generation. I mean hell, Tracii has spent 30+ years trying to prove he is better than Slash

If he had stayed I don't think GnR would've gone where it did and become as big.

[SoulMonster]

There's also been some efforts to minimize or cancel the impact of any band members that came before Slash and Duff (as if it can really be minimized even further than it was), so as to make it seem like Slash, Steven and Duff were part of the original lineup. 

[jamillos]

What hate? No hate. 

There'll always be shitloads of smartasses amongst GNR fans who'll hate someone. Fuck em. 

[Dean]

In my opinion, his biggest contribution, along with the others, was throwing the towel in. Would Guns N' Roses be what they are today if they stuck around? Probably would've had moderate fame, but Appetite wouldn't have been what it is to this day without Adler, Slash and Duff and I doubt they would have achieved the level of success Guns did, particularly '89 onward where everything went stratospheric.

Although I would say I'm part of the group of people in question that never really acknowledged them as Guns N' Roses, which is odd considering my interest in Guns predominantly came from the lineup that started Chinese and beyond, but we all have opinions and Tracii and co. shouldn't be bothered in the slightest at people not giving them any credit for their input in the bands creation - they know themselves what they done and that is all that should matter. 

 

[t-p-d-a]

7 hours ago, Sosso said:

Sorry, I thought that I'm in a forum with adult people. 

To be fair.. Why don't you write a specific title for the topic?

[Sosso]

8 hours ago, soon said:

I bet to some extent it’s just down to Tracii being at odds with Guns?

(^^ ha, now there’s an interesting sentence - makes me understand why Tracii asked them for his name back!)

But I figure some fans just see it as like, if Axl and Slash aren’t buddies with him, then he’s a pariah?

I've listened to lots of studio albums and live material and he never ceases to amaze me. It was the same when I discovered Buckethead. 

His name appears in the Thank You section from AfD as Tracii (L.A. - ) Guns. You might have noticed that. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Sosso

[Blackstar]

I don't think there has been any "hate".

I guess whatever argument there has been about Tracii Guns among the fan base stemmed from things that have nothing to do with him directly, i.e. it has been all about Axl continuing as Guns N' Roses after all the AFD (and UYI) members had left. 

So, probably, some fans, depending on which side of the main argument they were, tended to either overplay or deny Tracii's little place in the band's history. For example, some of the fans who supported NuGnR and acknowledged it as Guns N' Roses might stress the fact that Tracii was part of the initial formation as a way to make a point that Slash was a replacement of the original lead guitarist, and hence present him as not more important in the history of the band than the guys who replaced him; and then, some of the fans who supported Slash and didn't acknowledge NuGnR as GnR might say that Tracii was a nobody who didn't play a part, as he just played a few shows and didn't record anything with the band. And then there would be the argument of the original Vs. classic lineup and of the semantics of how "original" is defined in regards to a band.

I think that before the breakup - or if the band had never broken up - it would have just been a case of the nerdier fans knowing that Tracii was part of the short-lived initial formation (and that the band was named after him and Axl) and that would be all.

Edited June 13, 2020 by Blackstar

[Sosso]

Thank you @Blackstar for your answer I started this thread because Tracii is so much more than just an initial member of GN'R. Any current Songwriter would be lucky to write songs like "Never Enough", "Over the Edge" or "Electric Gypsy". It's always easier to overlook the good things when you can talk about the dirt. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Sosso

[Sosso]

14 hours ago, soon said:

I bet to some extent it’s just down to Tracii being at odds with Guns?

(^^ ha, now there’s an interesting sentence - makes me understand why Tracii asked them for his name back!)

But I figure some fans just see it as like, if Axl and Slash aren’t buddies with him, then he’s a pariah?

Look at the issue like this: Axl and Tracii had the band L.A. Guns and they changed the name to Guns N' Roses when Izzy joined. Maybe he was expecting the same move from Axl and Izzy a couple of months later? No one could predict such a huge success and it was just one from many band names around that time. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Sosso

[Len Cnut]

Probably cuz a lot of fans never listened to those other bands so he just comes across as some guy that's been riding on the coattails of Guns since...whenever/forever.  I dunno, I'm not the best judge cuz I dunno whether he's mentioned them a lot in interviews or whatever.  Also, there is that ridiculous argument I've heard on here that he and Ole Beich were the original Guns in arguments oft-used in defence of NuGnR at one point, avoiding the obvious point that the people that made Appetite and bought GnR to prominence and, effectively, are the real original GnR that everyone came to know and love.  

 

[Sosso]

19 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Probably cuz a lot of fans never listened to those other bands so he just comes across as some guy that's been riding on the coattails of Guns since...whenever/forever.  

That's not really Tracii's fault, is it? I know a lot of fans who are judging him by his name alone. They are like "oh wow, this guy really rocks" after listening to some of his songs. To make a long story short, never judge a book by its cover. 

[Len Cnut]

14 minutes ago, Sosso said:

That's not really Tracii's fault, is it? I know a lot of fans who are judging him by his name alone. They are like "oh wow, this guy really rocks" after listening to some of his songs. To make a long story short, never judge a book by its cover. 

Oh definitely but there's your answer, what can I say, the human race, we're an irrational bunch.  I never heard shit by LA Guns or Ole Beich or whoever, my abiding memory of them is discussions on here with purists regarding 'the original Guns'.

Hate is a strong word though, its a kinda post-hip hop term that has come to override the veracity of criticism, 'you're a hater', I'm speaking broadly here and outside of just this discussion, there's a thread knocking around right now like 'why the hate for Slash and Duff?', I don't think any GnR fan in their right mind can hate Slash and Duff, not if they're Guns fans, they've just come in for a bit of flak lately for doing what some believe to be the company man thing, whether thats true or correct I'd have to care more about Guns right now to give an accurate appraisal and I don't.  The way I see it is Guns fans got what they wanted, some semblance of a fuckin' reunion so be happy.

This is why you should be careful in life and pick your spots when you talk because you can end up attached to something and forgotten about in terms of your actual achievements.  Its kinda like Connery working hard to separate himself from Bond so he could stand on his own merit (and achieved it handsomely, though it was more to do with work he did after Bond so perhaps its a shite example ) but the sad truth is all Tracii Guns and Ole Beich are to the world at large, the few who know of em, is 'oh, those guys who were in Guns before they were something'.

But overall you're right, judge shit you know and not just be reactive.  I've honestly never heard shit from Ole Beich or Tracii Guns and I don't remember but I'm pretty sure anything I've ever said about em has been disparaging, probably in the midst of some discussion about who GnR really are/were and where they stand in relation to that.  

Edited June 13, 2020 by Len Cnut

[-W.A.R-]

19 hours ago, Sosso said:

Sorry, I thought that I'm in a forum with adult people. 

I was unsure if you were joking with this thread or not. Ive never seen any hate directed toward Tracii.

Is he underrated by fans? maybe.

[Sosso]

9 minutes ago, -W.A.R- said:

I was unsure if you were joking with this thread or not. Ive never seen any hate directed toward Tracii.

Is he underrated by fans? maybe.

Thank you.

If you want to judge him by yourself, I would recommend the L.A. Guns albums "L.A. Guns", "Cocked & Loaded", "Hollywood Vampires" and "The Missing Peace". Also the Brides of Destruction album "Here Comes The Brides". 

Edited June 13, 2020 by Sosso