Guns N’ Roses, Eagles, Pearl Jam Took PPP Loans for Canceled Tours

[Padme]

14 minutes ago, guitarpatch said:

Small business is more defined in the amount of people they employ. The SBA program was designed to keep people employed on payroll in businesses that were affected by Covid instead of those workers being unemployed and therefore on state unemployment. The music business has been affected and they surely do qualify.

This also isn’t Slash/Duff/Axl paying themselves. It’s everyone else they have on payroll. People in their camp rely on those shows happening for income. Shows provide the infrastructure for that to happen. You can ask why don’t they pay them out of their personal pockets, but that’s really a lot to ask (although I’m sure they would have given it some thought otherwise).
 

These were funds specifically made available for them to use here for that purpose. It’s a no brainer decision to take it and keep their people paid 

If GN'R is using that money to pay for their security staff, the tech guys, whatever service they may need at shows, that's fine. But if they are using that money to pay the likes of Fernando and Del James. I'm not so sure the loan is going where it should.

[dando]

18 minutes ago, cineater said:

I thought for that loan you didn't have to repay it if you put all your employees back on the payroll when the business opened up.  I don't see concerts happening for a long time.  I wonder how long they have to get people back on the payroll.

Thats where we've got it right in the UK, 11 million people furloughed getting 80% pay from the government 

[Blackstar]

According to the data 

https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program#section-header-11

GnR: Loan range $150,000-350,000, Number of jobs retained: 18

I guess GnR employs more than 18 people for the tour. Maybe they pay the rest of the crew themselves and got the loan to cover some of the wages cost. Or maybe some of the crew is not employed directly by GnR but by companies contracted with GnR.

For comparison:

Pearl Jam: $350,000-1 million, 28 jobs

Eagles: $350,000-1 million, 50 jobs

Disturbed: $350,000-1 million, 17 jobs

Green Day: $150,000-350,000, 26 jobs

Edited July 9, 2020 by Blackstar

[EricA]

35 minutes ago, Padme said:

If GN'R is using that money to pay for their security staff, the tech guys, whatever service they may need at shows, that's fine. But if they are using that money to pay the likes of Fernando and Del James. I'm not so sure the loan is going where it should.

In this chat, Duff did with Richard Marx back in April, he refers to 80 people on their payroll, such as Truck Drivers etc, that they (GnR company) now have to take care for.

i guess and hope, these are exactely the people who get paid now out of this loans, and not Del and Fernando

at 15:30

 

Edit: meanwhile @Blackstardid a great job, as always, and found out the exact datas 

Edited July 9, 2020 by EricA

[cineater]

I would think Fernando is still full time employed as his job duties continue even though they aren't on tour there is still stuff to do.

[EricA]

2 minutes ago, cineater said:

I would think Fernando is still full time employed as his job duties continue even though they aren't on tour there is still stuff to do.

Fernando and stuff to do is a contradiction in terms

[Blackstar]

The loan has been granted to the GnR touring company (same with the other bands), not to the main GnR business or Axl's main business, where I suppose TB is paid from.

[foreverguns]

Meanwhile in the Sones camp

 

[soon]

35 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

According to the data 

https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/loans/coronavirus-relief-options/paycheck-protection-program#section-header-11

GnR: Loan range $150,000-350,000, Number of jobs retained: 18

I guess GnR employs more than 18 people for the tour. Maybe they pay the rest of the crew themselves and got the loan to cover some of the wages cost. Or maybe some of the crew is not employed directly by GnR but by companies contracted with GnR.

For comparison:

Pearl Jam: $350,000-1 million, 28 jobs

Eagles: $350,000-1 million, 50 jobs

Disturbed: $350,000-1 million, 17 jobs

Green Day: $150,000-350,000, 26 jobs

GNRs numbers do seem a bit lean by comparison - they are a bigger machine then Disturbed but are covering the same PPP recipients. 

Im not sure if non-US citizens were eligible? (and no, Im not referring to TB in case anyone wonders)

It could be that NITL was able to pay for the best of the best and therefore salaried them accordingly to the extent that those staff have not sought PPP? 

Given my poor view of TB I would imagine that they just take on way more local hires, city by city, then other bands. So that they can pay them less and save on travel and such. I mean NITL actual tour manager worked for Live Nation, too! lol

 

 

[Tom2112]

4 hours ago, KURT19 said:

And yet AXL rants and rages against Steve Mnuchin and Trump...

what a hypocrite.

 

You have not understood the loan. This is not a gift, it has to be paid back, and it's only given because the music industry creates a lot of jobs and money. So... this is not a kindness, it's a necessity! one that any party would have had to offer, under these circumstances.

 

[Amaya]

At first, I said what tha &^%$. It is what it is . They have employees, payroll, staff. The only multimillionaired part of GnR on stage and behind the scenes are Axl, Slash, Duff. I follow DL DefLeppard and on a fan site, there are the group pics of the band and tour staff. That is a lot of people and DefLep has had the same  family of faithful staff for years, years, and years.  As Mr.Duff the financier said, he is a job creator, lol, ok there,  but really yeah, the touring staff and stage musicians are regular, working people. This Covid pandemic stopped their income. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Amaya

[Blackstar]

4 hours ago, soon said:

GNRs numbers do seem a bit lean by comparison - they are a bigger machine then Disturbed but are covering the same PPP recipients. 

Im not sure if non-US citizens were eligible? (and no, Im not referring to TB in case anyone wonders)

It could be that NITL was able to pay for the best of the best and therefore salaried them accordingly to the extent that those staff have not sought PPP? 

Given my poor view of TB I would imagine that they just take on way more local hires, city by city, then other bands. So that they can pay them less and save on travel and such. I mean NITL actual tour manager worked for Live Nation, too! lol

I would guess that the techs (like Tom Mayhue, McBob etc.) and other personnel (sound engineers etc.) that have worked with GnR for years, as well as some of the security stuff and the truck drivers are employed directly by GnR. But maybe Opie, for example, who is the production manager is not employed and it's his production company working with GnR, so the stage crew could be employed by that company. And then they hire locals (additional stage crew and security) in each place.

[Blackstar]

From the link with the data:

As I understand it, these loans were not given directly by the government. The program offers government guarantee to the banks for loans taken by small businesses. The businesses applied to a bank, the bank approved and granted the loan, and then submitted the papers to the government which guaranteed it automatically. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Blackstar

[KURT19]

14 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

You have not understood the loan. This is not a gift, it has to be paid back, and it's only given because the music industry creates a lot of jobs and money. So... this is not a kindness, it's a necessity! one that any party would have had to offer, under these circumstances.

 

I understand the loan perfectly.  I don't think you understood my point...Steve Mnuchin and Donald J. Trump set up the PPP Loan program.  Axl's people, rightfully, took advantage of the program.  Rather than showing gratitude, or just staying out of it, Axl tweeted this:

"It’s official! Whatever anyone may have previously thought of Steve Mnuchin he’s officially an asshole."

What a hypocrite.

(This belongs in the political thread, but I felt I needed to explain myself here.  Sorry to the mods...I'm done!)

[allwaystired]

4 minutes ago, KURT19 said:

I understand the loan perfectly.  I don't think you understood my point...Steve Mnuchin and Donald J. Trump set up the PPP Loan program.  Axl's people, rightfully, took advantage of the program.  Rather than showing gratitude, or just staying out of it, Axl tweeted this:

"It’s official! Whatever anyone may have previously thought of Steve Mnuchin he’s officially an asshole."

What a hypocrite.

(This belongs in the political thread, but I felt I needed to explain myself here.  Sorry to the mods...I'm done!)

That's as ludicrous as saying I'm a hypocrite for loathing Boris Johnson and the UK Government while receiving money because I'm out of work and can't find a job. 

I'm not grateful to them in any way, shape or form. 

 

[Tom2112]

27 minutes ago, KURT19 said:

I understand the loan perfectly.  I don't think you understood my point...Steve Mnuchin and Donald J. Trump set up the PPP Loan program.  Axl's people, rightfully, took advantage of the program.  Rather than showing gratitude, or just staying out of it, Axl tweeted this:

"It’s official! Whatever anyone may have previously thought of Steve Mnuchin he’s officially an asshole."

What a hypocrite.

(This belongs in the political thread, but I felt I needed to explain myself here.  Sorry to the mods...I'm done!)

I 100% understood what you meant. 

If you think this loan is going to stop artists or even the industry workers from voicing their disapproval you will be very disappointed. 

Axl tweets about birthdays, holidays, tour ending thanks and politics... I suggest you look elsewhere than GNR social media if you can't handle their personal politics not matching with your own. 

[KURT19]

19 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I 100% understood what you meant. 

If you think this loan is going to stop artists or even the industry workers from voicing their disapproval you will be very disappointed. 

Axl tweets about birthdays, holidays, tour ending thanks and politics... I suggest you look elsewhere than GNR social media if you can't handle their personal politics not matching with your own. 

I can handle anything.  

Have a nice day.

[Tom2112]

1 hour ago, KURT19 said:

I can handle anything.  

Have a nice day.

Thats a wide net Kurt!

Ah it's nothing personal😃 have a good one! 

 

[The Holographic Universe]

On 7/10/2020 at 10:14 AM, KURT19 said:

I can handle anything.  

Have a nice day.

That’s a great point though Kurt. Seriously spot on. I didn’t even consider it.

[yourcrazy]

These loans will not be paid back. The law was written such that if they put toward payroll, they will not have to be paid back.  Since these bands only tour periodically, the road crews are not specific GnR employees.  This is very different from a retailer or manufacturer who has all the overhead.  If GnR are not touring, they are not paying road crews.   This is another case of the wrong people getting taxpayer money.  This is clearly not what this money was meant for.   I find it ridiculous and another case of hypocrisy from  these spoon fed celebrities.   They should feel some pain as the rest of us who are dealing with this pandemic.

[The Holographic Universe]

1 hour ago, yourcrazy said:

These loans will not be paid back. The law was written such that if they put toward payroll, they will not have to be paid back.  Since these bands only tour periodically, the road crews are not specific GnR employees.  This is very different from a retailer or manufacturer who has all the overhead.  If GnR are not touring, they are not paying road crews.   This is another case of the wrong people getting taxpayer money.  This is clearly not what this money was meant for.   I find it ridiculous and another case of hypocrisy from  these spoon fed celebrities.   They should feel some pain as the rest of us who are dealing with this pandemic.

The money was never going to be allocated to those for whom it was meant for. The scales are tipped, but as Kurt said Pearl Jam and GNR are taking cash from the very source they speak poorly of. Im not going to trip on that fact, but it shows that they aren’t the most informed people at all times.

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, podcastpaul said:

Where in the link did you find that information ? How about say slipknot how did they do? 

It has a link to download a spreadsheet with the data for loans above $150,000 (it says "click here"). 

I don't know about Slipknot, I don't remember spotting them (I used "Touring" as keyword for searching into the spreadsheet). But keep in mind that the loans have been given to the touring companies of the bands, which not necessarily bear the band's name, so you have to know the name of the company. This is the case with GnR: The touring LLC is not called "Guns N' Roses Touring", it's called Gundam Touring and I happened to know that from previous research - but also the name of the company is kind of suggestive, so one, knowing that GnR is in there, could suspect that it's them.

--------

On a related note, as expected, one of the biggest beneficiaries of these loan programs are the banks:

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/14/banks-cares-act-ppp/

And if you think that the biggest problem is the bands that got $150,000 loans to pay their crew:

 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ronshevlin/2020/07/13/ppp-loans-who-got-what-and-how-well-did-the-loans-perform/#5b82b5634fdb

Edited July 15, 2020 by Blackstar