Is Axl Rose our Generation's Brian Wilson and is Chinese Democracy like his Version of Smile?

[War2k14]

So I've always been into Guns but until Recently I haven't much gotten into the Beach Boys beyond the hits.   Their first few hits the Beach Boys took Chuck Berry riffs and layered Freshman style vocal harmonies over them for some quick straight forward rock and roll.  But soon Brian Wilson... the main song writer quit touring so he could work with session musicians to expand their sound.  He hired the best session musicians and spent all day in the studio recording and re recording what would become Pet Sounds.  When the band came back from tour they, mainly Mike Love, told Brian that it wasn't really the Beach Boys it was Brian Wilson with the Beach Boys doing vocals.  However when Pet Sounds was released some critics really liked the growth of the music and it had on it some great tracks such as Wouldn't it be Nice and God only Knows which Paul McCartney called the greatest track ever written. 

Before Pet Sounds the Beatles had released Rubber Soul and Brian wanted to top it.  After Pet sounds was released Brian spent 8 Months recording Good Vibrations the single for their next Album he was making titled Smile.  This album was to compete with the Beatles Sergent Peppers. The Beach Boys re-recorded the vocals for Good Vibrations 50 Times.  

By this time Brian was getting crazy with Drugs and was recording all sorts of things including instruments from all over the world, talk back during tracks, dogs and horses among other things.  He had a huge sandbox in his living room he put a piano in which reminds me of Bucketheads Chicken Coop.  Between the dogs and the Chickens I suspect they were both  filled with poop.  Remember Axl got Pissed when he saw Bucket was watching hardcore porn and was furious it could be bringing a bad energy to the recording?  That is such a Brian Wilson thing.

Brian Struggled to complete smile and by this time was cancelling sessions when the energy in the room wasn't right.  From what he was able to deliver to the band and the record company neither of them liked it.  Mike Love told Brian... This is too out there, we're a simple rock band, don't fuck with the formula.  The Beach Boys took what they could from Brians tapes, stripped it down and released a stripped down version of the sessions called Smiley Smile.  To me this is like the version of Chinese Democracy we got. 

When this happened Brian spent the next three years in bed. Not writing or recording much, not touring. 

To me the parallels between Brian and Axl are plentiful.  They both had an artistic vision and worked with a plethora of musicians to try and achieve it.  The results could at times be out there and weird.  Some of it I find brilliant such as Twat, This I love, Catcher Brian may, even Madagascar.  Piano Driven Ballads are Axls bread and butter.  Some of it I find Weird such as Scraped, If the World.  It's a new sound but it had a filler vibe.  And some of it I find weirdly experimental such as Prostitute, and Shacklers.  There are very few elements of what I expected such as Decent almost there Rockers like CD Better and IRS.  Just Like Good Vibrations was Smile's only song to remind me of their past sound. 

To Me Paul McCartney and the Beatles was what Reznor and NIN was to Axl. 

If Axl is Brian Wilson Slash is Mike Love:  Don't Fuck with the Formula.

Just for Fun Adler is Dennis Wilson, Duff is Al Jardeen, Izzy is Carl Wilson and Dizzy is Bruce Johnston.   

So to me Chinese Democracy may be our generations Smile and Axl Rose is our Brian Wilson.  We hope that he will write and record music but has a recluse personality and Mental Illness that can get in the way.  Both have been touring, but Brian has still been writing and recording.

Brian finally went back into the studio to complete Smile in 2004.  I wonder if Axl will ever go into the studio to finish his original vision for the CD Trilogy. 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by War2k14

[eggers]

No.

[War2k14]

13 minutes ago, eggers said:

No.

Any Reasons you could elaborate on?

[eggers]

26 minutes ago, War2k14 said:

Any Reasons you could elaborate on?

A lot of your info is about 50% correct but that’s whatever.

Smile was recorded in under a year unlike Axl who took fucking forever. Brian wasn’t on crazy drugs, he smoked some hash and did acid like once. He developed his mental health issues years after.  Technology of the time was a big reason why Smile wasn’t finished, editing all those little pieces together was not an easy task. 
As for the music they aren’t even comparable, what Brian was doing was ground breaking. CD is interesting but there is nothing on there that hasn’t been heard before. The Downward Spiral is far beyond and that came out in 1994.

[lame ass security]

12 minutes ago, eggers said:

A lot of your info is about 50% correct but that’s whatever.

Smile was recorded in under a year unlike Axl who took fucking forever. Brian wasn’t on crazy drugs, he smoked some hash and did acid like once. He developed his mental health issues years after.  Technology of the time was a big reason why Smile wasn’t finished, editing all those little pieces together was not an easy task. 
As for the music they aren’t even comparable, what Brian was doing was ground breaking. CD is interesting but there is nothing on there that hasn’t been heard before. The Downward Spiral is far beyond and that came out in 1994.

Dude, Brian Wilson used acid once? That's like saying Duff had a beer once. Brian said that LSD seriously fucked up his brain.

[eggers]

2 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

Dude, Brian Wilson used acid once? That's like saying Duff had a beer once. Brian said that LSD seriously fucked up his brain.

He did, he said it totally blew his mind. He wasn’t an acid head tho and did not take it multiple times.

“I took LSD, a full dose of LSD, and later, another time, I took a smaller dose. And I learned a lot of things, like patience, understanding.”

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by eggers

[Sausagebrain]

1 hour ago, War2k14 said:

So I've always been into Guns but until Recently I haven't much gotten into the Beach Boys beyond the hits.   Their first few hits the Beach Boys took Chuck Berry riffs and layered Freshman style vocal harmonies over them for some quick straight forward rock and roll.  But soon Brian Wilson... the main song writer quit touring so he could work with session musicians to expand their sound.  He hired the best session musicians and spent all day in the studio recording and re recording what would become Pet Sounds.  When the band came back from tour they, mainly Mike Love, told Brian that it wasn't really the Beach Boys it was Brian Wilson with the Beach Boys doing vocals.  However when Pet Sounds was released some critics really liked the growth of the music and it had on it some great tracks such as Wouldn't it be Nice and God only Knows which Paul McCartney called the greatest track ever written. 

Before Pet Sounds the Beatles had released Rubber Soul and Brian wanted to top it.  After Pet sounds was released Brian spent 8 Months recording Good Vibrations the single for their next Album he was making titled Smile.  This album was to compete with the Beatles Sergent Peppers. The Beach Boys re-recorded the vocals for Good Vibrations 50 Times.  

By this time Brian was getting crazy with Drugs and was recording all sorts of things including instruments from all over the world, talk back during tracks, dogs and horses among other things.  He had a huge sandbox in his living room he put a piano in which reminds me of Bucketheads Chicken Coop.  Between the dogs and the Chickens I suspect they were both  filled with poop.  Remember Axl got Pissed when he saw Bucket was watching hardcore porn and was furious it could be bringing a bad energy to the recording?  That is such a Brian Wilson thing.

Brian Struggled to complete smile and by this time was cancelling sessions when the energy in the room wasn't right.  From what he was able to deliver to the band and the record company neither of them liked it.  Mike Love told Brian... This is too out there, we're a simple rock band, don't fuck with the formula.  The Beach Boys took what they could from Brians tapes, stripped it down and released a stripped down version of the sessions called Smiley Smile.  To me this is like the version of Chinese Democracy we got. 

When this happened Brian spent the next three years in bed. Not writing or recording much, not touring. 

To me the parallels between Brian and Axl are plentiful.  They both had an artistic vision and worked with a plethora of musicians to try and achieve it.  The results could at times be out there and weird.  Some of it I find brilliant such as Twat, This I love, Catcher Brian may, even Madagascar.  Piano Driven Ballads are Axls bread and butter.  Some of it I find Weird such as Scraped, If the World.  It's a new sound but it had a filler vibe.  And some of it I find weirdly experimental such as Prostitute, and Shacklers.  There are very few elements of what I expected such as Decent almost there Rockers like CD Better and IRS.  Just Like Good Vibrations was Smile's only song to remind me of their past sound. 

To Me Paul McCartney and the Beatles was what Reznor and NIN was to Axl. 

If Axl is Brian Wilson Slash is Mike Love:  Don't Fuck with the Formula.

Just for Fun Adler is Dennis Wilson, Duff is Al Jardeen, Izzy is Carl Wilson and Dizzy is Bruce Johnston.   

So to me Chinese Democracy may be our generations Smile and Axl Rose is our Brian Wilson.  We hope that he will write and record music but has a recluse personality and Mental Illness that can get in the way.  Both have been touring, but Brian has still been writing and recording.

Brian finally went back into the studio to complete Smile in 2004.  I wonder if Axl will ever go into the studio to finish his original vision for the CD Trilogy. 

 

 

 

Interesting analogy. 

 

On the time taken - yes, Brian only took a year, and Axl took 10 years or more on his album. But remember, a year was a very long time to spend on recording an album by the standards of the 60s.

And as much as I like CD, there is nothing on there as legendary as Good Vibrations, Surf's Up or Heroes and Villians. 

The Beach Boys did release a box set of the original Smile Sessions in 2011. I hope we don't have to wait over 40 years for the CD sessions to be released! 

[lame ass security]

19 minutes ago, eggers said:

He did, he said it totally blew his mind. He wasn’t an acid head tho and did not take it multiple times.

“I took LSD, a full dose of LSD, and later, another time, I took a smaller dose. And I learned a lot of things, like patience, understanding.”

 

You just contradicted yourself but it's not something I care debating. But suffice to say, Brian Wilson would've given Syd Barrett a run for his money.

[Rovim]

well, every musician is different, every artist has their own set of skills and capabilities plus I think it's difficult to make this comparison since Brian Wilson belongs to a time where a lot of things were new where Axl belongs to the 80's where even Appetite was a retro record. It just sounded fresh cause the band incorporated enough musical styles of existing bands successfully, creating a unique blend and also each band member's personality is reflected so clearly through the music.

Wilson was an innovator and not just with Smile, but also with the classic Beach Boys albums. Some of the work was truly groundbreaking imo and he was like the mastermind of that band.

Chinese Democracy is "just" a new blend of Gn'R+some of Axl's favorite styles and influences that he maybe wanted to incorporate with the existing formula. He can only do so much cause it depends on the style of composing/songwriting of other band members too.

I wouldn't call Chinese  groundbreaking, still retro but maybe that's what he likes. It does take a lot of talent and dedication to put together that kind of album but at it's core, you can kinda identify all the classic Gn'R elements and those were just pushed forward enough for it to progress while other classic elements were missing cause Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven/Matt weren't around anymore so not every change to how it sounded was intentional or Axl's first choice probably.

Brian was more like Trent Reznor, maybe a better comparison (but still not a great one) cause with NIN he came up with something newer. Axl just took elements from his favorite 90's bands and incorporated it with what Gn'R has done in the past.

I believe Axl is interested in making Gn'R more versatile like Queen, and to come up with the best Gn'R tunes he can come up with but with the help of other musicians and artistically progress with each Gn'R album released. Brian did shit that was unheard of with some of the music he created and a lot of it came from his mind.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Rovim

[eggers]

5 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

You just contradicted yourself but it's not something I care debating. But suffice to say, Brian Wilson would've given Syd Barrett a run for his money.

So you think taking one full dose and a smaller one months later is the same as Syd who took it near daily? Ok then..

Edited July 16, 2020 by eggers

[lame ass security]

7 minutes ago, eggers said:

So you think taking one full dose and a smaller one months later is the same as Syd who took it near daily? Ok then..

No, I'm just saying you must've gotten your information from the tooth fairy. Brian himself has stated that he was a frequent user of acid. Now there ya go, you've got me debating.😄

[The Holographic Universe]

1 minute ago, lame ass security said:

No, I'm just saying you must've gotten your information from the tooth fairy. Brian himself has stated that he was a frequent user of acid. Now there ya go, you've got me debating.😄

I’ve heard the same thing that he was taking it frequently and large doses. I thought this was common knowledge to some extent. 

[Rovim]

5 minutes ago, lame ass security said:

No, I'm just saying you must've gotten your information from the tooth fairy. Brian himself has stated that he was a frequent user of acid. Now there ya go, you've got me debating.😄

everytime you try to get out...

Edited July 16, 2020 by Rovim

[lame ass security]

5 minutes ago, Rovim said:

everytime you try to get out...

They pull me back in. Thanks, Al.😄

[eggers]

Brian did a shit load of cocaine in later years but he has never been quoted as taking acid on the regular.

Edited July 16, 2020 by eggers

[action]

I've got another one; smile and chinese are both shit albums

[The Holographic Universe]

1 hour ago, action said:

I've got another one; smile and chinese are both shit albums

Based off some of the leaks and instrumentals. And possibly The general and some other unheard songs CD could have been at the very least a good album, if not great. 

[bucketmaster101]

Vaguely off topic: Never been a huge Beach Boys fan. I listened to Pet Sounds recently and found it incredibly underwhelming. Any recommendations? 

 

On topic: interesting points. I see where you're coming from, although admittedly maybe it's a superficial comparison. As I said, not being a Beach Boys fan I have little to no knowledge of Brian Wilson's lifestyle, but can at the very least see the points raised above that BW was an innovator, unlike Axl who it seems was more focused on perfecting a pre-existing sound. 

[StrangerInThisTown]

Just wanted to drop this here because I can, it's hilarious

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by StrangerInThisTown

[circusboy666]

Smile is an epic display of Brian’s mental challenges. The recording itself was extremely difficult for him. It is one of the most beautiful, chaotic, and sad albums I’ve ever heard. Truly a classic of all time.
 

The similarities between the two really only seems to be their refusal to compromise on their vision and both are eccentric mental cases.
 

1966-2004 Smile

1998-ish-2008 CD

[allwaystired]

The big difference is that one of them is rather more prolific than the other (to stay the least!) 

It's become almost impossible to even know if Axl is any good at writing songs, or if he's written a single new piece of music in 20 years. 

That's incredible when you think about it - we have no idea if Axl has written a single note of new music in 20 years. It's insane that given that information there is still expectation of an imminent new album. 

[DTV88]

No. Brian Wilson released a shit ton of music and influenced the Beatles.

[Sydney Fan]

With the amount if time it took for CD to come out i thought it was would be like the wall of sound mixed with some experimental stuff like the cars first album considering roy thomas baker, and brian may was involved . I was eagerly expecting greatness. Fuck was i disappointed.

You could say axl now looks like brian wilson during brians recluse years.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Sydney Fan

[Stress Fracture]

The mystique around both was always more interesting than the reality.

[Tio Didi]

IMO, Smile is, indeed, the best Beach Boys album of all and one of the best albums in general music. On the other hand, CD ia a hit and miss.