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"Cancel Culture" Opinions?


RussTCB

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It's bullshit.

No you shouldn't be racist, homophobic, etc.

But one's life should not be ruined without evidence because some people on social media who have nothing better to do said so.

If you are offended by media of any kind, change the fucking channel or put your phone down.

Also do not tell people who are actually a man or a woman, what is a man or woman.

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Posted (edited)

I keep seeing this idea that cancel culture should be called "consequences culture". I've also heard the idea that if you disagree with cancel culture, you must be a racist, a misogynst or just plain stupid. 

I could not disagree more with both of the ideas above. I'm none of those things and I completely disagree with the current state of cancel culture. 

I think we have to get back to a point where it's OK for people to make mistakes and learn. I also think the world as a whole could benefit a whole lot from trying to see where others are coming from. 

Someone said or did something you don't like? OK, well how about trying to get the root of why they said or did it? It seems like we could get a lot further with that instead of just sending scores of faceless anonymous mobs after people with hashtags. 

Are there genuinely bad, hateful people out there that can't be reached? Sure. But I like to believe that the greater majority of people are good overall. 

I really believe that if we spent more time understanding and trying to build each other up, we'd have a lot less problems in the world. 

Edited by RussTCB
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I'm am so tired of everyone having an opinion on what is okay to say and do and if others don't agree you are wrong or a racist.

What is past is past! Hopefully, most of us have grown from it and most of us were not even born. Every country has done fucked up shit in the past. Nothing new. We are human beings who fuck up. Yeah, some things have gotten better and some have gotten worse. Can we all change? no, some of us can and others can't it's the way things are.

I wish we all could be more tolerant of each other and our beliefs and feelings, but that's not going to happen.

I don't have an answer and I doubt anyone else does. We have to learn from our mistakes and try to do better. look forward not behind or we'll be stuck in the past forever. We know what has been done wrong, so we need to try to change it without rioting and killing each other.

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Dont you guys all see this cancel culture is all media driven bullshit.

Media is to blame for cancel culture.

They will run any social media post from any whinger and claim its news or a new movement even if its a minority of peoples views.

Media shoves all this down everyones throats as news while the weak minded or scared get influenced. 

Switch off the mainstream media. 

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17 minutes ago, vloors said:

Dont you guys all see this cancel culture is all media driven bullshit.

Media is to blame for cancel culture.

They will run any social media post from any whinger and claim its news or a new movement even if its a minority of peoples views.

Media shoves all this down everyones throats as news while the weak minded or scared get influenced. 

Switch off the mainstream media. 

Oh I definitely agree. The less mass media I consume, the happier I am. 

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23 hours ago, RussTCB said:

I keep seeing this idea that cancel culture should be called "consequences culture". I've also heard the idea that if you disagree with cancel culture, you must be a racist, a misogynst or just plain stupid. 

I don't think both are fair assessments. 

But I also think too much of this is painted with too broad of a brush.

My issue with the criticisms of cancel culture are that they are often overly broad and often serve a political agenda.  Conservatives like to paint all instances of cancel culture of the "woke" mob out to ruin anyone who disagrees with them.  But as I've pointed out numerous times in this thread, they have a long history of trying to cancel people and groups of people they disagree with.  Right now the number three Republican in the House of Representatives is about to lose her leadership position because she continually refutes the party line on Trump's election loss.  

I also disagree that all calls to "cancel" someone for their words is misplaced or wrong.  There are actions and words that should face consequences, sometimes serious consequences.  Blaming "cancel culture" in some cases is a cop-out. 

One example is when New York Governor Andrew Cuomo blamed cancel culture on people demanding his resignation for the numerous women coming forward with claims of harassment or abuse.  It's an inane response that attempts to excuse his behaviour by latching on to a trendy pejorative concept that loses its meaning when employed in such a fashion.

But like anything, there are instances where calls for social or economic consequences go too far.  People can grow and evolve and statements said in people's past should not be used as ammunition to banish them from society.  The movement of moving to a fairer and more understanding society needs to also allow for apologies and ownership of past problems.  

Ultimately I think each instance needs to be considered on its own and not part of some overarching effort.  

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I had some pretty ignorant views just a few years ago, so I do think people shouldn't be canceled over things said in the past (totally depends on the context, though). I also think consequences are valid, too. It just depends on each individual situation imo

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26 minutes ago, downzy said:

I don't think both are fair assessments. 

But I also think too much of this is painted with too broad of a brush.

My issue with the criticisms of cancel culture are that they are often overly broad and often serve a political agenda.  Conservatives like to paint all instances of cancel culture of the "woke" mob out to ruin anyone who disagrees with them.  But as I've pointed out numerous times in this thread, they have a long history of trying to cancel people and groups of people they disagree with.  Right now the number three Republican in the House of Representatives is about to lose her leadership position because she continually refutes the party line on Trump's election loss.  

I also disagree that all calls to "cancel" someone for their words is misplaced or wrong.  There are actions and words that should face consequences, sometimes serious consequences.  Blaming "cancel culture" in some cases is a cop-out. 

One example is when New York Governor Andrew Cuomo blamed cancel culture on people demanding his resignation for the numerous women coming forward with claims of harassment or abuse.  It's an inane response that attempts to excuse his behaviour by latching on to a trendy pejorative concept that loses its meaning when employed in such a fashion.

But like anything, there are instances where calls for social or economic consequences go too far.  People can grow and evolve and statements said in people's past should not be used as ammunition to banish them from society.  The movement of moving to a fairer and more understanding society needs to also allow for apologies and ownership of past problems.  

Ultimately I think each instance needs to be considered on its own and not part of some overarching effort.  

 

23 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

I had some pretty ignorant views just a few years ago, so I do think people shouldn't be canceled over things said in the past (totally depends on the context, though). I also think consequences are valid, too. It just depends on each individual situation imo

That's the thing though: cancel culture doesn't take nuance or context into consideration. 

Also "they did it too!" isn't a valid argument. I couldn't care less whether the right or the left are the ones calling for the canceling, which is why I didn't mention either political party in my post. 

At the end of the day, there needs to be a lot more attempts to understand where others are coming from as opposed to saying "you don't agree with me, therefore you should be cancelled" 

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59 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

That's the thing though: cancel culture doesn't take nuance or context into consideration. 

 

True.  But the same argument can be made about the criticisms of cancel culture.

I do agree that too often people lose sight of what's important and forget the human element in all of this.  Calling for someone to lose their jobs or be banned from various platforms rather than seeking to engage isn't going to help anything.  

That said, there are instances and times when removal is the only or best option. 

We here have been criticized for years for banning people that cannot or will not follow the rules or engage with others in a polite and sincere way.   My problem with criticisms of cancel culture is that too often they make the same mistakes that those who blindly support it.  There are times when people need to chill out and other times people need to be gone. 

Failure to reach agreement is definitely not an area where discourse should then be shut down.  But far too often one party isn't acting in good faith and has no sincere interest in genuine discussion.  Or their actions have caused real harm and consequences might be necessary.  The severity of those consequences can be open for debate.  We're seeing that play out live with Facebook's handling of Trump.  I don't think it's something where there's always going to be a right answer.  Or better yet, the answer to a certain situation isn't going to work for everyone.  

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2 hours ago, downzy said:

True.  But the same argument can be made about the criticisms of cancel culture.

I do agree that too often people lose sight of what's important and forget the human element in all of this.  Calling for someone to lose their jobs or be banned from various platforms rather than seeking to engage isn't going to help anything.  

That said, there are instances and times when removal is the only or best option. 

We here have been criticized for years for banning people that cannot or will not follow the rules or engage with others in a polite and sincere way.   My problem with criticisms of cancel culture is that too often they make the same mistakes that those who blindly support it.  There are times when people need to chill out and other times people need to be gone. 

Failure to reach agreement is definitely not an area where discourse should then be shut down.  But far too often one party isn't acting in good faith and has no sincere interest in genuine discussion.  Or their actions have caused real harm and consequences might be necessary.  The severity of those consequences can be open for debate.  We're seeing that play out live with Facebook's handling of Trump.  I don't think it's something where there's always going to be a right answer.  Or better yet, the answer to a certain situation isn't going to work for everyone.  

My main point is: cancelling people isn't the answer. Seeking to understand and improve everyone on both sides of an argument is. 

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5 hours ago, ZoSoRose said:

I had some pretty ignorant views just a few years ago, so I do think people shouldn't be canceled over things said in the past (totally depends on the context, though). I also think consequences are valid, too. It just depends on each individual situation imo

Just out of curiosity, what were your ignorant views? Tell me or I'll cancel you! :lol:

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3 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Just out of curiosity, what were your ignorant views? Tell me or I'll cancel you! :lol:

Nothing too nuts, I just could have been more open minded to issues pertaining to prejudice, social issues, and sexism. I always acknowledged them and cared about them, but didn't fully understand how bad so many issues still are for so many

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5 hours ago, RussTCB said:

My main point is: cancelling people isn't the answer. Seeking to understand and improve everyone on both sides of an argument is. 

Do you think that's always possible?

Are there not people who are too far gone, too insincere, or committed too great offence that deserve some form of reprimand or removal from their present position of authority or power?  Particularly if that person shows no interest or capability of remorse or reflection? 

I guess my issue here is that too often the criticisms of cancel culture are without context.  It's become such a pejorative concept that any invocation of it against any target helps to produce some sort of backlash against what is sometimes a worthy effort to right an individual or societal harm or wrong. 

Undoubtedly, there are certainly areas and instances where canceling people, actions or speech are beyond necessity or even acceptable. 

But too often cancel culture has been invoked to criticize those who wish to see a serial sexual harasser removed from their position, or defend the indefensible symbols of hate (i.e. confederate statutes and monuments).  I'm not suggesting that you find these areas defensible.  My only concern is that we don't allow any effort address social problems to be undermined or undone because someone conveniently labels such efforts as "cancel culture," with all the negative associations that has been installed in the concept.  

All of this to me feels similar to the PC backlash.  Some PC efforts go too far, but the overall effort is to get people to think outsides of themselves and understand how words and actions have costs that are not paid by those saying or doing the offence.  

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12 minutes ago, downzy said:

Do you think that's always possible?

Are there not people who are too far gone, too insincere, or committed too great offence that deserve some form of reprimand or removal from their present position of authority or power?  Particularly if that person shows no interest or capability of remorse or reflection? 

I guess my issue here is that too often the criticisms of cancel culture are without context.  It's become such a pejorative concept that any invocation of it against any target helps to produce some sort of backlash against what is sometimes a worthy effort to right an individual or societal harm or wrong. 

Undoubtedly, there are certainly areas and instances where canceling people, actions or speech are beyond necessity or even acceptable. 

But too often cancel culture has been invoked to criticize those who wish to see a serial sexual harasser removed from their position, or defend the indefensible symbols of hate (i.e. confederate statutes and monuments).  I'm not suggesting that you find these areas defensible.  My only concern is that we don't allow any effort address social problems to be undermined or undone because someone conveniently labels such efforts as "cancel culture," with all the negative associations that has been installed in the concept.  

All of this to me feels similar to the PC backlash.  Some PC efforts go too far, but the overall effort is to get people to think outsides of themselves and understand how words and actions have costs that are not paid by those saying or doing the offence.  

Of course it's not always possible but that doesn't mean a far bigger effort to try reason first shouldn't be put forward. 

And again the argument being used is: "but what about racists and other awful people?" and my point stands that not everyone is a racist or an awful person if they happen to think differently than others or the majority. 

Perhaps at their core, they are but it might be worth trying to reason first and find out why they believe what they believe in an attempt to find common ground. 

Again, I know that's not always going to be possible but we'd be better off if the effort was there in many cases. 

In the end, a bunch of people sitting on social media (which is the only place cancel culture has any real power) agreeing with each other doesn't accomplish anything on either side. 

It would just be nice to see people more open to how others think or what made them the way they are as opposed to just saying "if you don't think exactly the way I think, you're cancelled". 

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1 hour ago, arnold layne said:

Pepe Le Pew was great. 

Fuck those people who sent him to the shadow realm. 

The French need to get their priorities straight if they're okay with their ongoing raping and oppressing of Africa but not a harmless cartoon.

Overall I have a combination of agreeing with what both Russ and downzy are saying here. Generally PC/wokeness/cancel culture is feeble-minded sanctimonious bureaucracy that damages public discourse and society but other times it's not, depending on how it's defined. Sometimes it is necessary. It really is a case by case thing and people need to be taught critical thinking for their own and everyone elses sake.

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On 5/5/2021 at 1:22 PM, RussTCB said:

I keep seeing this idea that cancel culture should be called "consequences culture". I've also heard the idea that if you disagree with cancel culture, you must be a racist, a misogynst or just plain stupid. 

I could not disagree more with both of the ideas above. I'm none of those things and I completely disagree with the current state of cancel culture. 

I think we have to get back to a point where it's OK for people to make mistakes and learn. I also think the world as a whole could benefit a whole lot from trying to see where others are coming from. 

Someone said or did something you don't like? OK, well how about trying to get the root of why they said or did it? It seems like we could get a lot further with that instead of just sending scores of faceless anonymous mobs after people with hashtags. 

Are there genuinely bad, hateful people out there that can't be reached? Sure. But I like to believe that the greater majority of people are good overall. 

I really believe that if we spent more time understanding and trying to build each other up, we'd have a lot less problems in the world. 

 

3 hours ago, StayofExecution2020 said:

People confuse cancel culture with consequence culture. Dont be a racist, homophobic, sexist or other kind of asshole, and you're fine. If you are, then you're done and rightfully so.

It's just not as simple as that. See above. 

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Posted (edited)

It's crazy to me to think we live in a world where "male" or "female" are not options for sex. 

The US federal government has "non-binary" as an option now for firearms related background checks.

To me, adding "other" or "uni-sex" seems like it would be sufficient. The issue here is sex/gender for 99% of people is descriptive. Much like ethnicity, eye or hair color, etc. The government likes details for official documents. 

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9 hours ago, Sweersa said:

It's crazy to me to think we live in a world where "male" or "female" are not options for sex.

They aren't? But seriously does having non-binary as an option really bother you that much? i mean cmon.

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1 hour ago, -W.A.R- said:

They aren't? But seriously does having non-binary as an option really bother you that much? i mean cmon.

The non-binary option could be a trick by the US government to single out those who check it, and count them as mentally unstable, and thus a prohibited person from obtaining firearms when they fill out the paperwork associated with the background check.

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