RussTCB Posted August 10, 2020 Author Posted August 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Who is the arbitrator of these ''better thoughts''? And that's the thing; there's no true decider on what line of thinking might be "better" than another. However, a lot of social media & online companies are drawing blurry lines in the sand with respect to what they decide to be "hate speech". I guess my biggest worry with all of this is the continual pushing of a hive mindset. The idea being pushed lately seems to be that "anything that I personally don't agree with must be 'hate speech'" 1 Quote
soon Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, RussTCB said: And that's the thing; there's no true decider on what line of thinking might be "better" than another. You. You decide. Quote
DieselDaisy Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, soon said: Youd have to explain your bizarre assertions before we could continue with the normal part of the conversation? I suppose we'll just return to taking the piss out of one and another through the prism of Star Wars vis-à-vis my reading habits. 1 Quote
RussTCB Posted August 10, 2020 Author Posted August 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, soon said: You. You decide. Maybe I'm not making my point clear. So let's say that I say/do something that I do not consider to be offensive in any way, shape or form. What's to stop someone else in the world from deciding that it offends them? The answer is nothing. There's nothing stopping someone somewhere in the world from deciding that what I've said or done is offensive to them. Furthermore, those same people now have the tools (social media and cancel culture) to go online and gather an angry mob who agree with them. 1 Quote
RussTCB Posted August 10, 2020 Author Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said: There is a way actually, that person says hey Russ did you mean to upset me? You say no. That should be the end of it. Right, that should be how it works. Totally agree with that. But that's not how angry mobs and cancel culture works. Quote
downzy Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 18 hours ago, Ace Nova said: My issue is with the psychological/sociological/philosophical aspect of it and what it could (potentially) do to an innocent entity or an entity that does not deserve to be "hurt" or "destroyed". And the word "cancel" deceptively alludes to something getting completely "canceled". That is not always the case. But the reality is, if an entity is targeted, they will be hurt financially, socially, mentally ...regardless of being "guilty" or "innocent". You do realize that people who practice in corporate activism or denounce those accused of serial sexual assault don't ascribe to the term moniker of "cancel culture." It's a pejorative phrase or descriptor as a catch-all phrase. No one perceives themselves as participating or belonging to "cancel culture." 18 hours ago, Ace Nova said: They don't need to be entirely "cancelled" for "cancel culture" to do what it intends to do....which is hurt the entity, in whatever way possible. So then you have folks saying it's harmless because rarely do entities actually get full-out "canceled" Perhaps I'm misreading your opinion, but you come across as sounding that people should be free of criticisms or consequences regarding their actions. Why shouldn't some level or element of "harm" (whether it be loss of income, employment, etc) befall those who cause, through their own actions, injury towards other? 19 hours ago, Ace Nova said: I would think that you, out of all people, would agree that a person/entity deserves his day in court...not a trial by media, no? This point reminds me of the Jerry Springer show. I'm sure you remember when they would bring out the "other man" and the husband would go after the dude. But it never made sense to me that the cheated husband would go after the other guy. Why is his anger not initially and solely directed towards his whore wife? My point here is who really gives a shit what people are tweeting about. If an employer is going to fire an employee based solely on what a few people are tweeting without doing their due diligence, then the issue isn't the twittersphere mob but the company itself. There was a case a few years ago in Toronto where a female reporter was harassed by a couple of drunk asshole after a pro soccer game. One of the guys involved was identified and fired soon after a huge uproar. The cause for his termination was for violating the company's code of conduct. But he was rehired six months later long after anyone gave a shit. 19 hours ago, Ace Nova said: On the surface, "cancel culture" can appear harmless (or justified) but if you dig deep enough, it is rooted from the psychological concept of "mob mentality" To some extent I agree, but you're giving this "mob" too much credit. It's not a some all encompassing and inescapable forces that will not bend until its needs are met. Nearly every prime time talking head on Fox News has faced boycotts raised against them. All of them (Hannity, Ingraham, Hannity) are still on night after night. Neil DeGrass Tyson still has his job at the Hayden Planetarium. Aziz Ansari's stand up performances still sell out and has an open invitation by Netflix to another season of his show. Simply, you and others give to much agency and authority. It's not the judge and jury that people make it out to be. Your examples of cancel culture run amuck seem more indicative of poorly run companies with weak kneed senior management than it does to people using technological and communicative tools to foster change and holding the corrupt and evil to account. Quote
downzy Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Swampfox said: There's a reason Trumpers are referred to as the silent majority. Don't try to flip the script. Really? Is that why millions more voted for Hillary? Quote
Gibsonfender2323 Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) The rage mob on twitter has ruined many lives and I personally know people affected by this. They are sad people who want to feel useful in the world and they don't care who they cancel it seems righteous to them. It's why i stopped using twitter and social media . Anyone who disagrees with them isn't worth the time and some people i know personally don't talk to family anymore because of politics its sad. I am so glad I live in a Democratic Federalist Republic. T Edited August 10, 2020 by Gibsonfender2323 Quote
soon Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 Do right wingers no longer believe in personal responsibility? Quote
Gibsonfender2323 Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) Right wingers at least the ones i know personally don't give a shit about ones politics they don't spend everyday on twitter being Karen or trying to burn their own city to the ground they care about protecting ones self and family and have lives outside of politics and are more humble they don't view themselves as some worldly expert on politics or anything. like that because they have more important shit to do. The intellectual ANTI-FA are ironically more like the Brownshirts and SS then the mythical cult of Trump . Look at the mess that is Portland. Leftist- YOU ARE A RACIST Right Winger- How? Leftist- RACIST FASCIST Right Winger- Ok Edited August 10, 2020 by Gibsonfender2323 3 1 Quote
downzy Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 7 hours ago, RussTCB said: I got a chance to read up on the thread and there were a lot of great posts. My overall worry about cancel culture is that it seems we're quickly moving towards a point where no one can speak their mind for fear of "being cancelled". Music alone has been completely sterilized as an art form. It's been stated in the thread already, but an album like AFD would never be releseed today. There's no artist that would dare make it and even if there were, there's absolutely no record company that would put it out. All because they're scared of getting hit with "being cancelled". To me, cancel culture seems to be leading us to a place where no original thought can be shared for fear of offending someone. That scares the hell out of me, especially because it's effected an art form that I love so dearly. But do you honestly think people can't be provocative in art anymore? I don't see it in television where the last ten to fifteen years has produced some of the most thought-provoking and boundary pushing output in the history of the format. There have been no shortage of ground-breaking but also less than safe and provocative shows. With respect to music, I think the lack of interesting output has more to do with the marketplace itself and less to do with whatever effects "cancel culture" is having. I do believe AFD would still be made today, but it's unlikely few would hear it since that kind of music is no longer part of the cultural zeitgeits. As @Jakey Styley mentioned, there are still sleaze, glorification of violence, and out-right celebration of misogyny in hip hop, probably one of the biggest and most popular genres of music going today. "Turn around I've got a use for you," seems quaint when compared to some of the stuff Eminem puts on his records. Plus there's the question of whether the world, including Axl, has moved on from what AFD did back then. Chinese Democracy showed that Axl has lyrically moved on from the kind of excessive, and in some instances tawdry, imagery and invocations that drove some of GNR's music back in the mid to late 1980s. The world has changed and I'm not sure the music we're getting is really the product of artists bending to pressure from social media campaigns or finding other ways to push boundaries that middle-aged white guys like you and I aren't exposed to or don't identify with. While I can't consider myself a huge fan and am likely speaking from a place of ignorance, from what I understanding artists like Beyonce and Kendrick Lamar have produced some provocative works in the last few years. Kanye, love him or hate him, certainly is pushing boundaries with respect to what he touches upon in his music. The problem for those of us who grew up in the 80s and 90s who conceptualize boundary pushing music in the frame we know it is that it makes it harder for us to see and feel it when that frame changes. I'm not sure the absence of Sunset Blvd sleaze in popular music that drives culture has much to do with cancel culture and more to do where music sits in culture in general and who it's being made by and for. 1 Quote
action Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 8 hours ago, Jakey Styley said: Aren't albums more problematic than AFD released every week though? Rap lyrics are far "worse" than anything GNR ever wrote in terms of glorifying violence, objectifying women, etc. how many of those artists are white though? it seems to me that black artists can get away with much more than white ones, especially today with "black lives matter" 1 Quote
DieselDaisy Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Gibsonfender2323 said: Right wingers at least the ones i know personally don't give a shit about ones politics they don't spend everyday on twitter being Karen or trying to burn their own city to the ground they care about protecting ones self and family and have lives outside of politics and are more humble they don't view themselves as some worldly expert on politics or anything. like that because they have more important shit to do. The intellectual ANTI-FA are ironically more like the Brownshirts and SS then the mythical cult of Trump . Look at the mess that is Portland. Leftist- YOU ARE A RACIST Right Winger- How? Leftist- RACIST FASCIST Right Winger- Ok That is generally how it proceeds. The terms ''racist/racism'', everything from breakfast cereals to rice now being considered ''racist'', are now utterly meaningless as terms as they are thrown around like confetti. 1 Quote
Dazey Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Swampfox said: It's not that hard to understand. Trump supporters have felt cancel culture more than anyone. Try walking around with a MAGA hat on for one day. Does looking like a dick get you cancelled these days? 6 hours ago, -W.A.R- said: You guys have guidos in the UK? Yeah, he tried to blow up the Houses of Parliament. Edited August 10, 2020 by Dazey Quote
Swampfox Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 5 hours ago, downzy said: Really? Is that why millions more voted for Hillary? Still upset about that popular vote? 1 Quote
Len Cnut Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 I don't really understand it, you're cancelled so...what exactly? A bunch of people don't like you basically? Well isn't that just about every worthwhile contentious figure in culture? Thats a badge of honour right, thats how you get a contentious counter culture. Quote
downzy Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 6 hours ago, action said: how many of those artists are white though? it seems to me that black artists can get away with much more than white ones, especially today with "black lives matter" 1 Quote
action Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Len Cnut said: I don't really understand it, you're cancelled so...what exactly? A bunch of people don't like you basically? Well isn't that just about every worthwhile contentious figure in culture? Thats a badge of honour right, thats how you get a contentious counter culture. it's easy to dismiss being canceled, it never really happened to me since I don't do social media, but imagine a flood of negativity of people telling you to fuck off and die, with loonies trying to contact your family or your work... scary shit, Len. Personally I have very fragile mental wellbeing, and one bad thing that happens doesn't do much damage, two bad things are ok, but when the third one happens, and then the next... I can fall through the floor pretty quickly. it certainly doesn't help that I'm sometimes too outspoken for my own good, perhaps I should just shut my mouth anyway, but what is life when you can't speak your mind? 1 minute ago, downzy said: I forgot about eminem. good point. perhaps my post was a bit ignorant Quote
downzy Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 Just now, action said: it's easy to dismiss being canceled, it never really happened to me since I don't do social media, but imagine a flood of negativity of people telling you to fuck off and die, with loonies trying to contact your family or your work... scary shit, Len. Wow, myself and former staff members here have no idea what that must be like. /sarcasm 1 Quote
action Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 Just now, downzy said: Wow, myself and former staff members here have no idea what that must be like. /sarcasm it's not something you wish upon even your worst enemies. why can't people just be kind to each other? A smile, a nice word, a "how are you doing mate" doesn't cost much Quote
RussTCB Posted August 10, 2020 Author Posted August 10, 2020 7 hours ago, downzy said: But do you honestly think people can't be provocative in art anymore? I don't see it in television where the last ten to fifteen years has produced some of the most thought-provoking and boundary pushing output in the history of the format. There have been no shortage of ground-breaking but also less than safe and provocative shows. With respect to music, I think the lack of interesting output has more to do with the marketplace itself and less to do with whatever effects "cancel culture" is having. I do believe AFD would still be made today, but it's unlikely few would hear it since that kind of music is no longer part of the cultural zeitgeits. As @Jakey Styley mentioned, there are still sleaze, glorification of violence, and out-right celebration of misogyny in hip hop, probably one of the biggest and most popular genres of music going today. "Turn around I've got a use for you," seems quaint when compared to some of the stuff Eminem puts on his records. Plus there's the question of whether the world, including Axl, has moved on from what AFD did back then. Chinese Democracy showed that Axl has lyrically moved on from the kind of excessive, and in some instances tawdry, imagery and invocations that drove some of GNR's music back in the mid to late 1980s. The world has changed and I'm not sure the music we're getting is really the product of artists bending to pressure from social media campaigns or finding other ways to push boundaries that middle-aged white guys like you and I aren't exposed to or don't identify with. While I can't consider myself a huge fan and am likely speaking from a place of ignorance, from what I understanding artists like Beyonce and Kendrick Lamar have produced some provocative works in the last few years. Kanye, love him or hate him, certainly is pushing boundaries with respect to what he touches upon in his music. The problem for those of us who grew up in the 80s and 90s who conceptualize boundary pushing music in the frame we know it is that it makes it harder for us to see and feel it when that frame changes. I'm not sure the absence of Sunset Blvd sleaze in popular music that drives culture has much to do with cancel culture and more to do where music sits in culture in general and who it's being made by and for. I used Appetite as an example just because this is a GN'R forum so it seemed like the easiest example. I'm certainly not sitting around waiting for Axl to write more lyrics like that. My point was that I don't believe any artists today COULD if they wanted to. I was assuming my reputation as a well listened music fan of all genres and depth of lyrics would get that point across, but I guess not? Lol Also, it's not a matter of "the world moving on" from any particular influence or sound. Pop music for younger people has always existed and it's always been at the forefront. That's never going to change. Furthermore, there's plenty of new pop music that's still great at least IMO. Overall, I'm always more concerned with art that challenges the listener. I see/hear less and less of that which is very concerning to me. Cancel culture being the culprit is just a guess on my part of course. I could certainly be wrong, but it's what I'm seeing from my perspective. Quote
Len Cnut Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 Quote it's easy to dismiss being canceled, it never really happened to me since I don't do social media, but imagine a flood of negativity of people telling you to fuck off and die, Well there's an easy solution to that, tell em to fuck off back Quote I forgot about eminem. good point. perhaps my post was a bit ignorant There's loads of other white rapper y'know. Quote
Len Cnut Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, downzy said: Wow, myself and former staff members here have no idea what that must be like. /sarcasm See, this is my point, some fuckin' pussy on the internet saying shit about you, big wow, fuck em, you been to plenty GnR shows I'm guessing right? Anybody ever run up on you at one? I'm guessing but I bet they haven't. What would one say to you in that regard, 'i don't like the way you moderate your forum motherfucker' Uh...OK? Quote
Padme Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 On 8/8/2020 at 6:07 PM, RussTCB said: Thought I'd start a thread on Cancel Culture to gather some opinions. Personally, I cannot stand it. It seems nearly every day, someone, some company or some product is "cancelled" because they said or did something that offended someone. It just seems like there's no room for human error anymore. I fully understand that there are people and companies with bad intentions, but I refuse to believe every single company and person is bad at heart. I'm certain there are people and companies who make honest mistakes, but the current Cancel Culture leaves no room for that. It just feels like we're gonna get to a point where no one wants to say or do anything for fear of being cancelled. I think about most of the comedy I grew up on and nearly all of it would never have a chance to be made today. Same with music. There's tons of artists who would never have a chance by today's "be offended by everything" culture. I'm sure this topic has been touched on in other threads, but I really want to hear some opinions on it so I thought I'd give it a thread of its own. You used to be administrator/moderator in this forum. You have banned members. You have locked threads. You have deleted threads and posts. And now you claim you are against that? I don't remember you being concerned about artists not having a chance while locking a given thread. I'm not against the rules we have here. But tell me why do we have rules? I guess by answering my question, you will find the answer you're looking for yourself 1 Quote
Len Cnut Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 Quote You used to be administrator/moderator in this forum. You have banned members. You have locked threads. You have deleted threads and posts. And now you claim you are against that? I don't remember you being concerned about artists not having a chance while locking a given thread. I'm not against the rules we have here. But tell me why do we have rules? To keep people from spamming the forum with pictures of great big cocks? Quote
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