Is it the end of Guns n Roses?

[downzy]

43 minutes ago, Padme said:

Axl can't sing

Axl wasn't singing period between 1994 - 2001.

43 minutes ago, Padme said:

There is not even an annoucement of any new album.

Other than Axl's fax in 1996, there was far less talk about a new album.

43 minutes ago, Padme said:

They messed with people who have youtube accounts.

YouTube didn't exist in 1994 through 2001.

43 minutes ago, Padme said:

We have some leaks.

We had zero leaks between 1994 and 2001.

43 minutes ago, Padme said:

Having Slash and Duff back has changed very little the way the band operates.

The band didn't operate at all between 1994 and 2001.

43 minutes ago, Padme said:

People enjoyed the box set. BUT NOBODY WAS ASKING FOR IT!!!

So nobody had to buy it.  At least it was something.  What did we get between 1994 - 2001?  One live album.

43 minutes ago, Padme said:

The same way nobody is asking for children books and vinyl gratest hits. Don't ask me to thank them for this crap.

Nobody is asking you too.  You're free not to buy them (I didn't).  The only vinyl available between 1994-2001 were not re-issues and required a lot of hard work to track down.

43 minutes ago, Padme said:

I don't even remember when was the last time Axl did an interview.

Again, zero interviews between 1994 and 1999 by Axl or literally anyone from "the band."  

43 minutes ago, Padme said:

What is the point of the official site, official social media and fan club?

None of this existed in the 1990s.

43 minutes ago, Padme said:

They charge fans a huge amount of money for backstage tour.

There were zero backstage tours between 1994 - 2001.  

Again, you're issue is with their output of the last five years.  That's fair.  But at least there is output.  There was literally nothing between 1994 and 2001.  For the most part it was difficult to even know who was in the band.  There was literally nothing to follow.  

[-W.A.R-]

GNR is too big to ever be "done" unless by their (Axl's) own volition. Venues will get smaller but they'll be able to ride on the back of WTTJ and SCOM to their graves.

I do think eventually they'll put out another album to justify keep touring.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

2 hours ago, Towelie said:

Of course they won't say it in words, but it'll be fun to read Slash squirming in interviews in 2022 about why GNR still haven't managed to get a record out.

Or at least released a single.

[Tom2112]

23 minutes ago, downzy said:

Axl wasn't singing period between 1994 - 2001.

Other than Axl's fax in 1996, there was far less talk about a new album.

YouTube didn't exist in 1994 through 2001.

We had zero leaks between 1994 and 2001.

The band didn't operate at all between 1994 and 2001.

So nobody had to buy it.  At least it was something.  What did we get between 1994 - 2001?  One live album.

Nobody is asking you too.  You're free not to buy them (I didn't).  The only vinyl available between 1994-2001 were not re-issues and required a lot of hard work to track down.

Again, zero interviews between 1994 and 1999 by Axl or literally anyone from "the band."  

None of this existed in the 1990s.

There were zero backstage tours between 1994 - 2001.  

Again, you're issue is with their output of the last five years.  That's fair.  But at least there is output.  There was literally nothing between 1994 and 2001.  For the most part it was difficult to even know who was in the band.  There was literally nothing to follow.  

Not true... they released oh my god in 1999🤣 

Obviously joking, you are right!

[downzy]

GNR will be done when Axl has enough money to live the lifestyle he has grown accustomed to for the rest of his days.

[Padme]

14 minutes ago, downzy said:

Axl wasn't singing period between 1994 - 2001.

Other than Axl's fax in 1996, there was far less talk about a new album.

YouTube didn't exist in 1994 through 2001.

We had zero leaks between 1994 and 2001.

The band didn't operate at all between 1994 and 2001.

So nobody had to buy it.  At least it was something.  What did we get between 1994 - 2001?  One live album.

Nobody is asking you too.  You're free not to buy them (I didn't).  The only vinyl available between 1994-2001 were not re-issues and required a lot of hard work to track down.

Again, zero interviews between 1994 and 1999 by Axl or literally anyone from "the band."  

None of this existed in the 1990s.

There were zero backstage tours between 1994 - 2001.  

Again, you're issue is with their output of the last five years.  That's fair.  But at least there is output.  There was literally nothing between 1994 and 2001.  For the most part it was difficult to even know who was in the band.  There was literally nothing to follow.  

 We had Oh My God in the late 90s, at least we got a teaser. Rock in Rio was in 2001. And Axl chat with fans in the hotel where the band stayed the day after the show. There were several articles about this at the time. For those fans paying the hotel room was worthy. The backstage package we have today it is not. We have youtube now. And what they did with fans videos was terrible. The way the band operates these days. And all this bullshit  with radio silence, trademarks, lame ass books, horrible expensive merch, new old songs and albums. Incompetent and yes man managers. They better call it a day. I'd rather have nothing like in 1994. The only request I have is a stament with a few lines. Chances are they can't even bother to do that.

[downzy]

 

27 minutes ago, Padme said:

We had Oh My God in the late 90s, at least we got a teaser. Rock in Rio was in 2001. And Axl chat with fans in the hotel where the band stayed the day after the show.

This is outside of the date range I was speaking about. I was talking about 1994, post Hall of Fame performance with Springsteen, to 2000 (sorry, I should have said 2000 instead of 2001).  

29 minutes ago, Padme said:

We have youtube now. And what they did with fans videos was terrible.

I have no love for Fernando at present, so I have no motivation to say this other than the fact that there's little evidence that Fernando or GNR are behind the vast majority of take downs.  I've talked to Fernando about this issue.  He swears they have nothing to do with most of it, that it's the product of some deranged fan abusing the copyright system.  

31 minutes ago, Padme said:

And all this bullshit  with radio silence, trademarks, lame ass books, horrible expensive merch, new old songs and albums.

I get the offerings of late have been subpar.  But at least it's something.  And look, I get that attitude that nothing can be better than less than ideal.  There hasn't been a U2 album that I've enjoyed since All That You Can't Leave Behind (and really, Achtung Baby was the last U2 album I loved).  But simply because I haven't enjoyed any new U2 material for nearly the last 20 years doesn't mean I would have rather they hung it up back in the early 2000s.  Lots of people still enjoy the music they make even if it's not their best.  The same can be said about GNR, but obviously in different respects.  Millions of people all over the world have enjoyed seeing GNR play live the last four years.  Would we personally have preferred a new album and better output than yearly nostalgia tours?  Sure.  But we're not everyone.  At least it's something for most people to enjoy.  Whereas in the mid to late 90s there was literally nothing.  No one had any idea what Axl even looked like. 

36 minutes ago, Padme said:

They better call it a day. I'd rather have nothing like in 1994. The only request I have is a stament with a few lines. Chances are they can't even bother to do that.

Fair enough.  To each their own.  But I personally remember those days between 1996 and 2000 and I would rather much have the last four years than absolute silence with zero shows, Axl and Slash hating on each other, zero leaks - literally nothing save for one demo release and a live album that reminded me what we lost when the band went their separate ways.  

They are who they are and have been this way for 30+ years.  Axl and Guns doesn't do anything with fans in mind first and foremost.  The last four years hasn't been a deviation in this respect.  They just don't give a fuck about keeping fans informed and haven't for decades.  But at least there's something for fans to take part in if they choose.  That wasn't the case for diehards back in the mid to late 90s.  I would bet that most fans who followed the band religiously those days would take what we have (which is something) over what we got back then (which is almost nothing).  There weren't even fan forums back then.  The only thing that constituted a GNR fan community existed in a periodically delivered electronic mailing list.   

[MaskingApathy]

11 hours ago, zigzagbigbag said:

Yes, @DurhamGirl should definitely spent some time on listening to all GNR albums for at least one time before she opens anymore pointless threads. 

No offense @DurhamGirl but its seems very strange to me that you haven’t even listened to GNRs little catalog for at least once (I think thats what you have posted a few days ago) but are posting like a maniac and suffering the end of the band ;-)

Wait wait wait she hasn't even listened to the whole catalog yet?! What are you waiting for?

Now that we know that Slash and co are working on a new SMKC record I don't really care what GnR does in the next year or so. I'm just waiting for SMKC IV to come out.

[Towelie]

4 hours ago, downzy said:

 

This is outside of the date range I was speaking about. I was talking about 1994, post Hall of Fame performance with Springsteen, to 2000 (sorry, I should have said 2000 instead of 2001).  

I have no love for Fernando at present, so I have no motivation to say this other than the fact that there's little evidence that Fernando or GNR are behind the vast majority of take downs.  I've talked to Fernando about this issue.  He swears they have nothing to do with most of it, that it's the product of some deranged fan abusing the copyright system.  

I get the offerings of late have been subpar.  But at least it's something.  And look, I get that attitude that nothing can be better than less than ideal.  There hasn't been a U2 album that I've enjoyed since All That You Can't Leave Behind (and really, Achtung Baby was the last U2 album I loved).  But simply because I haven't enjoyed any new U2 material for nearly the last 20 years doesn't mean I would have rather they hung it up back in the early 2000s.  Lots of people still enjoy the music they make even if it's not their best.  The same can be said about GNR, but obviously in different respects.  Millions of people all over the world have enjoyed seeing GNR play live the last four years.  Would we personally have preferred a new album and better output than yearly nostalgia tours?  Sure.  But we're not everyone.  At least it's something for most people to enjoy.  Whereas in the mid to late 90s there was literally nothing.  No one had any idea what Axl even looked like. 

Fair enough.  To each their own.  But I personally remember those days between 1996 and 2000 and I would rather much have the last four years than absolute silence with zero shows, Axl and Slash hating on each other, zero leaks - literally nothing save for one demo release and a live album that reminded me what we lost when the band went their separate ways.  

They are who they are and have been this way for 30+ years.  Axl and Guns doesn't do anything with fans in mind first and foremost.  The last four years hasn't been a deviation in this respect.  They just don't give a fuck about keeping fans informed and haven't for decades.  But at least there's something for fans to take part in if they choose.  That wasn't the case for diehards back in the mid to late 90s.  I would bet that most fans who followed the band religiously those days would take what we have (which is something) over what we got back then (which is almost nothing).  There weren't even fan forums back then.  The only thing that constituted a GNR fan community existed in a periodically delivered electronic mailing list.   

I share @Padme's sentiments tbh.

I think the main difference now is that there's little hope left anymore. I became a fan of GNR because a) I loved the music and b) Axl was a badass singer. Not always consistent, but he was exciting.

A hasn't changed, but B most certainly has. Axl phones it in these days and is as exciting as my Grandma's weekly bingo night.

At least if we had nothing at all, you could imagine them to still be great. It's depressing watching your musical heroes deteriorate before your eyes, especially more so when you get the impression it's more because they can't be assed to try than anything else.

I think I would be more accepting of the lack of new music if Axl was taking more pride in his live performances, but some of the NITL shows from 17-19 have been woeful. I've never seen a professional singer deliver such a shocking performance as Axl at some of these shows. He simply does not give one single fuck and it's an insult to the fans.

Combine that with their apparent refusal to put out any new music whatsoever and it really does feel like nothing would've been better than the mediocrity we've been offered 17-20.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Towelie

[downzy]

31 minutes ago, Towelie said:

At least if we had nothing at all, you could imagine them to still be great.

You still can. 

32 minutes ago, Towelie said:

It's depressing watching your musical heroes deteriorate before your eyes, especially more so when you get the impression it's more because they can't be assed to try than anything else.

So don’t watch. 

32 minutes ago, Towelie said:

I think I would be more accepting of the lack of new music if Axl was taking more pride in his live performances, but some of the NITL shows from 17-19 have been woeful.

Really?  The two 2017 shows in Toronto were some of the best shows I’ve seen since Guns’ 2010 Canadian tour.

35 minutes ago, Towelie said:

I've never seen a professional singer deliver such a shocking performance as Axl at some of these shows. He simply does not give one single fuck and it's an insult to the fans.

You should check out some of Axl’s performances from 1992. He sounded like someone punched him the throat and he was grasping for air. 

I wouldn’t say that Axl doesn’t care, but he’s at the point in his career where he just can’t perform the way he use to. I believe he would need to rehearse as hard as he did for AC/DC to be able to sing at a level we’d all like him to. And that’s just never been who he is when it comes to Guns. As far as I’m aware, he never showed up all that much, if at all, to rehearsals during the classic period. What’s different now is he’s not in 20s and 30s and singing in his style is crushing physically. 

[Len Cnut]

9 hours ago, Dazey said:

That’s 28 years you thick cunt!  

Tenner says its not  

[DK6]

9 hours ago, DurhamGirl said:

Thanks!  I shall stop posting so much, the reason I have been is that a) I am genuinly interested to hear what folk who have been around for a while say b) its been a bit quiet.

 

Post as much as you like I reckon.

They don't have to read it!

[Towelie]

2 hours ago, downzy said:

You still can. 

So don’t watch. 

Really?  The two 2017 shows in Toronto were some of the best shows I’ve seen since Guns’ 2010 Canadian tour.

You should check out some of Axl’s performances from 1992. He sounded like someone punched him the throat and he was grasping for air. 

I wouldn’t say that Axl doesn’t care, but he’s at the point in his career where he just can’t perform the way he use to. I believe he would need to rehearse as hard as he did for AC/DC to be able to sing at a level we’d all like him to. And that’s just never been who he is when it comes to Guns. As far as I’m aware, he never showed up all that much, if at all, to rehearsals during the classic period. What’s different now is he’s not in 20s and 30s and singing in his style is crushing physically. 

I'm glad you enjoyed your two shows. But I think you'll find the general consensus across the fanboards is that there were more bad shows than good vocally speaking in 2017-2019.

I don't know if you've watched much live footage from NITL or listened to many soundboards, but a good 60-70% of the set from those years is practically unlistenable. So don't listen, yeah I know. But the fact is, I don't stick around cuz I enjoy watching them fail. I'm always rooting for Axl, wanting him to pull it out of the bag and to deliver at the level I still believe he is capable of.

You're making excuses for him. You deny that he doesn't care but then turn around and point out that Axl doesn't rehearse as if it's perfectly fine and acceptable. That is part of the problem. He could get away with that back in the day, but he can't now he's older. If Guns these days is really just a touring band, then the very least Axl could do is make some effort to sound half decent for the fans. If he cared he would do this. He obviously doesn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SoulMonster]

7 minutes ago, Towelie said:

I don't know if you've watched much live footage from NITL or listened to many soundboards, but a good 60-70% of the set from those years is practically unlistenable. 

If this was true, don't you think it would be reflected in reviews? That the music is unlistenable? It should cause a massive stop in people attending the shows and quick cancellation of the tours. 

Could it be that we fans, when listening to shows on YouTube and from recordings overfocus on the vocals instead of listening to the totality if the music which more casuals fans would at a show? 

[Towelie]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

If this was true, don't you think it would be reflected in reviews? That the music is unlistenable? It should cause a massive stop in people attending the shows and quick cancellation of the tours. 

Could it be that we fans, when listening to shows on YouTube and from recordings overfocus on the vocals instead of listening to the totality if the music which more casuals fans would at a show? 

No. It's unlistenable.

The reason it doesn't get picked up on more in reviews is a) the novelty of Slash being back and b) NITL is such a big production, Axl hides behind the rest of the band.

I would take the opinion of a fan over a music critic any day of the week. Kerrang did a cover feature when Guns played Donnington in 2018 and in the review they discuss how Axl redeemed himself after his last appearance in 2006. I read it and I thought "are you fucking kidding me?". When you watch the selects from Donnington posted by GNRs official social media you can clearly hear how weak he sounds throughout the entire thing and yet a professional reviewer was calling this better than 2006? Why? Because Slash is there.

I have actually read some criticism of Axl's vocals in a few reviews though. But I don't need a music critic to tell me when someone sucks, I use my ears for that.

[Padme]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

If this was true, don't you think it would be reflected in reviews? That the music is unlistenable? It should cause a massive stop in people attending the shows and quick cancellation of the tours. 

Could it be that we fans, when listening to shows on YouTube and from recordings overfocus on the vocals instead of listening to the totality if the music which more casuals fans would at a show? 

It's not the music nor youtube. Is Axl, for example the show in Berlin. In recent time I didn't bother to watch anything because the set list was boring as hell. And Axl wasn't the same we saw at the begining of the reunion tour. They waited too long before adding songs like Dead Horse and Locomotive.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Towelie said:

No. It's unlistenable.

The reason it doesn't get picked up on more in reviews is a) the novelty of Slash being back and b) NITL is such a big production, Axl hides behind the rest of the band.

I would take the opinion of a fan over a music critic any day of the week. Kerrang did a cover feature when Guns played Donnington in 2018 and in the review they discuss how Axl redeemed himself after his last appearance in 2006. I read it and I thought "are you fucking kidding me?". When you watch the selects from Donnington posted by GNRs official social media you can clearly hear how weak he sounds throughout the entire thing and yet a professional reviewer was calling this better than 2006? Why? Because Slash is there.

I have actually read some criticism of Axl's vocals in a few reviews though. But I don't need a music critic to tell me when someone sucks, I use my ears for that.

I am not denying that you think it is unlistenable, that's only for you to decide. My point was that if the majority of fans attending the shows think it is unlistenable, too, then that would quickly result in people stopping to attend the shows leading to the tour's cancellatio. because no one will accpt paying money for something that is unlistenable. So we have to conclude that most people attending the shows don't find it unlistenable. It wouldn't have been such a successful tour if it was.

[Len Cnut]

1 hour ago, Nesret said:

I'm stunned by many fans' unshakeable will to defend Axl's performances, no matter what. We all have ears. No one can seriously stand there and say that stuff like the NITL-selects is decent or even "good". Let's just fucking face it, it sucks. Stop making up silly excuses for it, it's ridiculous. It all reminds me so much of the story with the Emperor's new clothes.

At the same time, he's a bit of an old git isn't he, cut him some slack, look at people like Mick (fair dues, a lot older than Axl), he's not what he was when he was a youngster, few are.  Rock n roll is generally coarse and sloppy in a live context, or it was originally.  Guns n Roses, even in their prime, were a lot more to do with reckless teetering on the edge-ness than musicianship, something which, ironically, he tried to steer them away from with the all the balladey type shit, I bet he wishes they could get back to it now, eh?

[EvanG]

10 hours ago, Towelie said:

Axl phones it in these days and is as exciting as my Grandma's weekly bingo night.

This is simply not true. I went to see GnR two years ago and he was running around stage and singing his ass off for more than three hours and the crowd was really into it. How exactly is that ''phoning'' it in? He could have gotten away with 1,5 hour or barely moving, but he didn't. As for not liking his voice, fair enough. He's in his 50's, I agree that it's not as good as in his prime, it happens. A lot of people don't mind and still enjoy his voice and the band. If you don't, then don't go see them or listen to them on YouTube. 

[Sweersa]

15 hours ago, downzy said:

This is outside of the date range I was speaking about. I was talking about 1994, post Hall of Fame performance with Springsteen, to 2000 (sorry, I should have said 2000 instead of 2001).  

1999 still fits in a time range of 1994-2000.

But I understand your point, basically nothing happened during that time, at least openly except for the Oh My God release. 

[downzy]

9 hours ago, Towelie said:

You're making excuses for him. You deny that he doesn't care but then turn around and point out that Axl doesn't rehearse as if it's perfectly fine and acceptable

I didn’t say it was acceptable, but that he’s always been this way. The difference now is he’a no longer 30 years old and spent decades singing in a style that causes tremendous stress and likely damage to his vocal chords. It is fair to argue that he should be trying harder to counteract these issues, especially considering how bad he can sound and how much they are charging for tickets.

 

[downzy]

7 hours ago, Padme said:

In recent time I didn't bother to watch anything because the set list was boring as hell.

We find it boring, but for a person not following each show or going to one or two shows the past four years are likely seeing the best setlist GNR has ever done, relatively speaking.

Estranged, Coma, Civil War, Don’t Cry, Slash covering CD material, Yesterdays, deeper Illusion cuts...   These would have been unimaginable from 2001 to 2014. 

[downzy]

1 hour ago, Sweersa said:

1999 still fits in a time range of 1994-2000.

But I understand your point, basically nothing happened during that time, at least openly except for the Oh My God release. 

It was the one high point during a period of time when there was literally nothing. Even with the release of this one song that sound really rough from a production standpoint we still had no idea of who was technically in the band or even what Axl looked like. 

[Sweersa]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

It was the one high point during a period of time when there was literally nothing. Even with the release of this one song that sound really rough from a production standpoint we still had no idea of who was technically in the band or even what Axl looked like. 

That's true. I still can't believe they allowed such an unpolished track to be released. It only sounds slightly better mixed during the end movie credits, though they cut the solo short in that version, poorly too. 

Even after the leak of the updated version, we still have not heard a proper version of that song. I hope it makes a future official release of some kind.

[Padme]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

We find it boring, but for a person not following each show or going to one or two shows the past four years are likely seeing the best setlist GNR has ever done, relatively speaking.

Estranged, Coma, Civil War, Don’t Cry, Slash covering CD material, Yesterdays, deeper Illusion cuts...   These would have been unimaginable from 2001 to 2014. 

CD songs are not part of my top 20 GN'R songs. Nor are most of the covers. Sure they have to play KOHD and LALD because those 2 are big hits. As I said songs like Locomotive and Dead Horse could've been played a lot earlier. I believe that by 2018 the set list already needed a shake up