Gibsonfender2323 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: Did you even read your own article? lol We will have answers to the questions we all have in due time. I know you dont like him but in this case but I figure its appropriate given this thread. Facts don't care about your feelings. 51 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: I guess we'll find out more on that during the trial. But either way, they used the taser and it didn't work (for one reason or another). This case ain't going to trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, daile1bm said: You have to think about the entire situation, not just pieces at a time. The guy had already fought with police, was tazed without reaction, was in possession of a knife, went back to the car for an unknown reason (potentially getting another weapon, or take off with hostages). All the while, he had warrants out for his arrest. I don't think a person should be shot and killed for simply getting away. I'm trying to tell you that the culmination of all of the actions led to Blake getting shot. You seem to think he should have impunity from these actions. He certainly doesn't deserve to be shot seven times for any of this! And it is not the police's job to hand out punishment anyway. That's for the legal system, not cops. 1 hour ago, daile1bm said: What do you think the police should have done, from start to finish, in this case? Granted we don't have video of the start of the encounter (or at least I haven't seen it), but if you were an officer, what would you have done, knowing you have a violent criminal with arrest warrants outstanding? Tried to restrain him and if that isn't possible feel fucking incompetent at my job and call for backup. I would never, ever, ever make myself into a murderer because I failed at arresting a person. I couldn't live with myself afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 I can't wrap my head around the fact that people here try to justify the shooting of the black man because the police had failed at apprehending him, or because he had warrants, or other stuff like that. Really? That's how little a human life is worth to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Nothing but a fucking pussy (Good thing Axl didnt tweet that, because I'd obviously take it as a directive to go throw eggs at the Embassy. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daile1bm Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I can't wrap my head around the fact that people here try to justify the shooting of the black man because the police had failed at apprehending him, or because he had warrants, or other stuff like that. Really? That's how little a human life is worth to you? The justification isn't that they failed to apprehend him or that he had warrants. The justification is that he was noncompliant, violent and belligerent and threatening deadly force on others lives. Are the police offices lives worth less than the person they're trying to apprehend? Are they supposed to wait to get stabbed or shot, but only then be able to defend themselves? I can't wrap my head around that. When would they ever possibly be able to apprehend this person if he's acting the way he was? I have a hard time believing he'd be more agreeable to being arrested the next time they tried, assuming we should just let him drive away this time after fighting with police while armed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonfender2323 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Just now, daile1bm said: The justification isn't that they failed to apprehend him or that he had warrants. The justification is that he was noncompliant, violent and belligerent and threatening deadly force on others lives. Are the police offices lives worth less than the person they're trying to apprehend? Are they supposed to wait to get stabbed or shot, but only then be able to defend themselves? I can't wrap my head around that. When would they ever possibly be able to apprehend this person if he's acting the way he was? I have a hard time believing he'd be more agreeable to being arrested the next time they tried, assuming we should just let him drive away this time after fighting with police while armed. 100% Spot On Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 21 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: Did you even read your own article? lol We will have answers to the questions we all have in due time. Yes, that means most of the things we talk here it is just speculation. The only fact is that Blake was shot seven times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Padme said: Yes, that means most of the things we talk here it is just speculation. The only fact is that Blake was shot seven times. It's also a fact that a knife was found on the floorboard of his vehicle and a taser was used earlier in the encounter. It is also strongly alleged that the cops were yelling "drop the knife" by the man who was filming. Stayed tuned for more. 21 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said: This case ain't going to trial. In this political atmosphere, you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 21 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: He certainly doesn't deserve to be shot seven times for any of this! And it is not the police's job to hand out punishment anyway. That's for the legal system, not cops. Tried to restrain him and if that isn't possible feel fucking incompetent at my job and call for backup. I would never, ever, ever make myself into a murderer because I failed at arresting a person. I couldn't live with myself afterwards. They used a taser on him and it wasn't effective for one reason or another. They were heard yelling "drop the knife" by the man who filmed the encounter as he walked back into his vehicle. Mr SoulMonster, put yourself into the shoes of the cops, the taser you have tried to use on the suspect was not effective. You believe the suspect has a knife and he's walking back into his vehicle. What do you do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: They used a taser on him and it wasn't effective for one reason or another. They were heard yelling "drop the knife" by the man who filmed the encounter as he walked back into his vehicle. Mr SoulMonster, put yourself into the shoes of the cops, the taser you have tried to use on the suspect was not effective. You believe the suspect has a knife and he's walking back into his vehicle. What do you do? Well, I suppose there is no other option than to shoot him, is there? I mean, now that guy has to die. He got away from the tasing, he has a knife. That fucker deserves to get 7 bullets in his back. Fucking asshole. No wait, I could, you know, just step back a few meters and try to control the situation together with my police buddies. Worst case he draws a gun and we have to shoot him. Best case we manage to de-escalate the situation, and, you know, no one dies. Edited August 28, 2020 by SoulMonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: Well, I suppose there is no other option than to shoot him, is there? I mean, now that guy has to die. He got away from the tasing, he has a knife. That fucker deserves to get 7 bullets in his back. Fucking asshole. No wait, I could, you know, just step back a few meters and try to control the situation together with my police buddies. Worst case he draws a gun and we have to shoot him. Best case we manage to de-escalate the situation, and, you know, no one dies. Not an answer. Be specific. What does step back a few paces mean? You disengage the suspect and let him get in his car? What specifically are you doing in this scenario, explain to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: It's also a fact that a knife was found on the floorboard of his vehicle and a taser was used earlier in the encounter. It is also strongly alleged that the cops were yelling "drop the knife" by the man who was filming. Stayed tuned for more. In this political atmosphere, you never know. Yes the knife was found in the floorboard of the car. And that's all we know about the knife so far. If you're using the word "alleged" it means it is not a fact, at least not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daile1bm Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Well, I suppose there is no other option than to shoot him, is there? I mean, now that guy has to die. He got away from the tasing, he has a knife. That fucker deserves to get 7 bullets in his back. Fucking asshole. No wait, I could, you know, just step back a few meters and try to control the situation together with my police buddies. Worst case he draws a gun and we have to shoot him. Best case we manage to de-escalate the situation, and, you know, no one dies. Worst case he draws a gun and fires and kills someone else, from a problem he started and is responsible for. Or he drives off with hostages and 4 people may die now instead of one (who's not dead btw). He had every opportunity to de-escalate previously, but now with a weapon in hand, he will surely come to reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Padme said: Yes the knife was found in the floorboard of the car. And that's all we know about the knife so far. If you're using the word "alleged" it means it is not a fact, at least not yet. Not a fact, but a very strong allegation! Stay tuned for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, daile1bm said: Worst case he draws a gun and fires and kills someone else There was no gun found. Are you suggesting it's justifiable to fire on someone in the back at point blank range despite there being no gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, daile1bm said: Worst case he draws a gun and fires and kills someone else, from a problem he started and is responsible for. Or he drives off with hostages and 4 people may die now instead of one (who's not dead btw). He had every opportunity to de-escalate previously, but now with a weapon in hand, he will surely come to reason. A potentially dangerous suspect who you think has a knife is about to get into a vehicle with children. He could harm one of the children? He could drive off and kill someone on the road. He could grab a gun he has in the car and turn around and try to shoot you (and now you are hoping you can disable him before he can pop off a shot and hit you). And mind you, these scenarios are all going through the officers heads in the matter of seconds and they have to make a life or death decision. Not as easy as the liberal armchair quarterbacks are making it out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: Not an answer. Be specific. What does step back a few paces mean? You disengage the suspect and let him get in his car? What specifically are you doing in this scenario, explain to me. It wasn't an answer? "Step back a few meters" isn't specific? Yes, I let him get into his car and possible even drive away. Yes, the guy got away because I failed to arrest him. My bad. He certainly doesn't deserve to die because of my incompetence. But wait a second, it is absolutely not certain he will drive away. Maybe we could put a police car in front of his? That sounds like a great idea! You know the police is supposedly trained in such stuff so I am sure they know how to do that. And then I can use my voice to try to make him give up and let him be arrested, it's called communication. Not as loud as gun shots but often better. I think there is a word for this, "de-escalation techniques", and police in civilized countries are even trained in it. Maybe it is possible to talk him down, instead of you, know, shoot him seven times in the back? In the worst case scenario the guy grabs a handgun in his car, well, then we and others around, because we are many and we are pointing our guns at him already, are in imminent danger and we have no other option but to shoot him. But we are even trained for that scenario, and we already have our gun poiting at him. It's dangerous, but that's what comes with the territory of being cops. Not shooting people seven times in the fucking back because we failed and are not panicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Just now, downzy said: There was no gun found. Are you suggesting it's justifiable to fire on someone in the back at point blank range despite there being no gun? The officers believed the suspect already had a knife (not a fact yet, but strong allegation) and now he's going back into his vehicle for some reason. The officers don't know what is or isn't in the vehicle at that point because they haven't searched it. Life or death decisions made in the matter of seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 36 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: I can't wrap my head around the fact that people here try to justify the shooting of the black man because the police had failed at apprehending him, or because he had warrants, or other stuff like that. Really? That's how little a human life is worth to you? Look, in a country that chose to elect Donald Trump as their national leader, it is no wonder that this kind of thinking pervades and persists. What can we really expect from a county where tens of millions of people will vote in November for a man unfit to run a charity (I'm not making that up, the Trump's are no longer legally allowed to run a charity). Just now, Basic_GnR_Fan said: The officers believed the suspect already had a knife (not a fact yet, but strong allegation) and now he's going back into his vehicle for some reason Maybe to leave? Check on his kids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daile1bm Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, downzy said: There was no gun found. Are you suggesting it's justifiable to fire on someone in the back at point blank range despite there being no gun? The cops have no idea what is in the car or what he's going into the car for in the moment. There are multiple examples of people going into their vehicle, grabbing a concealed firearm, and quickly turning around and killing an officer. If it was me, and I was the officer, knowing how this encounter has unfolded so far, with a completely noncompliant *edit* and violent person, I'm not waiting to find out what he's turning around with. So, yes, I think the officer's actions are 100% justifiable. The whole thing is unfortunate, but I would have handled that aspect of the incident similarly. Edited August 28, 2020 by daile1bm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, daile1bm said: Worst case he draws a gun and fires and kills someone else, from a problem he started and is responsible for. Or he drives off with hostages and 4 people may die now instead of one (who's not dead btw). He had every opportunity to de-escalate previously, but now with a weapon in hand, he will surely come to reason. Yes, in worst case scenario he would be able to kill someone before the police got him under control. But the probability of that happening is extremely low. And you don't shoot someone seven times because there is a very low probability he will kill someone. That's barbaric. Not in civilized countries at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: It wasn't an answer? "Step back a few meters" isn't specific? Yes, I let him get into his car and possible even drive away. Yes, the guy got away because I failed to arrest him. My bad. He certainly doesn't deserve to die because of my incompetence. But wait a second, it is absolutely not certain he will drive away. Maybe we could put a police car in front of his? That sounds like a great idea! You know the police is supposedly trained in such stuff so I am sure they know how to do that. And then I can use my voice to try to make him give up and let him be arrested, it's called communication. Not as loud as gun shots but often better. I think there is a word for this, "de-escalation techniques", and police in civilized countries are even trained in it. Maybe it is possible to talk him down, instead of you, know, shoot him seven times in the back? In the worst case scenario the guy grabs a handgun in his car, well, then we and others around, because we are many and we are pointing our guns at him already, are in imminent danger and we have no other option but to shoot him. But we are even trained for that scenario, and we already have our gun poiting at him. It's dangerous, but that's what comes with the territory of being cops. Not shooting people seven times in the fucking back because we failed and are not panicking. You're ignoring the fact that they already tazed him and were yelling at him to stop, and he wasn't listening. Ok so back to you. So you're letting the suspect get back into a vehicle with children and drive off. He's going to be driving off frantically at that point and putting everyone's life in that car in danger. Let's say he doesn't drive off and grabs a gun in stead and turns around and tries to shoot you. Not only are you hoping you can shoot him before he can shoot you. You are also hoping (and people aren't thinking about this) that none of the shots you are shooting at him don't miss and hit the kids in the car. Have you even thought of any of these contingencies? Do you think the suspect would get in his car and just casually drive off an drive the speed limit? Edit: one more scenario, he grabs one of the kids and uses them as a hostage. Edited August 28, 2020 by Basic_GnR_Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daile1bm Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Yes, in worst case scenario he would be able to kill someone before the police got him under control. But the probability of that happening is extremely low. And you don't shoot someone seven times because there is a very low probability he will kill someone. That's barbaric. Not in civilized countries at least. You brought up "worst case scenario", not me. I don't think yours was the worst case. I think mine was. I also didn't mean that he was going to kill some random innocent bystander, btw. He would likely (hypothetically) put his sights on the officers that are in close proximity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 This is what can happen if you let a suspect get back to his car. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daile1bm Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Just now, Basic_GnR_Fan said: This is what can happen if you let a suspect get back to his car. Thank you. Was going to try and post a video, but I don't know how. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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