Dazey Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: You don't shoot someone because they might have a gun, or even because they likely have a gun. But you might if you’ve had 16 weeks training before being sent out on the job in a country where the perceived wisdom is black man bad, must shoot. Edited August 28, 2020 by Dazey 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 One can only US the obscene gun culture in the US to justify these police shooting if that person also wants major firearms law reform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 45 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Correct, I don't think we have statistics for it, but I am EXTREMELY confident that the probability of not shooting that guy seven times in the back would lead to him getting in the car, having a hand gun there, resulting in a shootout with other people being hurt, is EXTREMELY low, despite that youtubw video if yours Guess what guy, we have no dead cops and no dead children with what actually happened. With your scenario there's a chance of one or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, soon said: One can only US the obscene gun culture in the US to justify these police shooting if that person also wants major firearms law reform. That’s kinda where I was going with that. Also I wasn’t justifying but just trying to understand which I think is also what @Ace Nova was trying to an extent. Edited August 28, 2020 by Dazey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, soon said: One can only US the obscene gun culture in the US to justify these police shooting if that person also wants major firearms law reform. Good luck getting people to give up their guns now that there's been riots and police pulling back and letting it happen. 2nd amendment people have a better argument than their old larpy 'we need guns to fight the government' line. Now, they can much more reasonably say, we need guns because the authorities refuse to give us law and order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: Guess what guy, we have no dead cops and no dead children with what actually happened. With your scenario there's a chance of one or both. You have a guy shot seven times though, versus extremely unlikely damage to others. But I suppose we value lives differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: Good luck getting people to give up their guns now that there's been riots and police pulling back and letting it happen. 2nd amendment people have a better argument than their old larpy 'we need guns to fight the government' line. Now, they can much more reasonably say, we need guns because the authorities refuse to give us law and order. Good luck with remaining a functional nation.... Anyways, I didnt ask for peoples guns, I made a simple point about the audacious insincerity of anyone speaking out both sides of their mouths on the issue. If the gun culture justifies shooting a human in the back 7 times, then the gun culture needs to change dramatically. But its pro gun people forwarding the argument. I call bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: You have a guy shot seven times though, versus extremely unlikely damage to others. But I suppose we value lives differently. Yes I value the children first, the cops second, and the suspect third. There you go with extremely unlikely to do damage to others again. No way for you to know, and more importantly, no way for the cops to know that in the key moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, soon said: Good luck with remaining a functional nation.... Anyways, I didnt ask for peoples guns, I made a simple point about the audacious insincerity of anyone speaking out both sides of their mouths on the issue. If the gun culture justifies shooting a human in the back 7 times, then the gun culture needs to change dramatically. But its pro gun people forwarding the argument. I call bullshit. Well first off, I don't think the prospects of America long-term are great no matter what. I think America either becomes Brazil 2.0 (just keeps on with the very high crime areas and extreme wealth inequality and shrinking middle class) or becomes like a Soviet Union or Yugoslavia and breaks up under the weight of it's own bullshit. And I'm telling you, that 2A crowd is going to be less willing than ever to give up any of their gun rights. The attitude right now is, first the government can get control of the streets, and then we'll think about giving up some gun rights, and even then, not likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Just now, Basic_GnR_Fan said: Well first off, I don't think the prospects of America long-term are great no matter what. I think America either becomes Brazil 2.0 (just keeps on with the very high crime areas and extreme wealth inequality and shrinking middle class) or becomes like a Soviet Union or Yugoslavia and breaks up under the weight of it's own bullshit. And I'm telling you, that 2A crowd is going to be less willing than ever to give up any of their gun rights. The attitude right now is, first the government can get control of the streets, and then we'll think about giving up some gun rights, and even then, not likely. Agreed, your shit hole country is already a write off. Again, I was making a comment on peoples duplicity in forwarding that argument. (not the the right has a monopoly on 2A) But I do love that a tin soldier failing hard while acting on exactly the reasoning you just put forward hasnt changed your perspective. Idiots to the back, let trained professionals handle things. How is that possibly unclear at this juncture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Just now, soon said: Agreed, your shit hole country is already a write off. Again, I was making a comment on peoples duplicity in forwarding that argument. (not the the right has a monopoly on 2A) But I do love that a tin soldier failing hard while acting on exactly the reasoning you just put forward hasnt changed your perspective. Idiots to the back, let trained professionals handle things. How is that possibly unclear at this juncture? It is a shit hole in many ways (with some nice shiny parts thrown in). You'll never see me be "Mr. Rah Rah America Number 1" guy. And I'd even agree that the gun culture is way over the top here. Part of that is a historical curiosity going back to this is literally a country founded on an armed rebellion. But that isn't going away, especially now. I criticized the 17 year old as a wannabe Rambo lol, I don't know what else you want. I won't criticize someone who has a gun during a riot and is in or just outside their own home trying to protect their own shit. But going out into the thick of it like you're a cop, very bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downzy Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: You have no way of guaranteeing that or even giving a reasonable percentage to that. That's part of the job of being a cop. Granted efforts should be made to mitigate risks of injury or death, but this notion that police can use lethal force at even the hint of harm to themselves is strange. If someone can't accept that risk, they shouldn't be a cop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: It is a shit hole in many ways (with some nice shiny parts thrown in). You'll never see me be "Mr. Rah Rah America Number 1" guy. And I'd even agree that the gun culture is way over the top here. Part of that is a historical curiosity going back to this is literally a country founded on an armed rebellion. But that isn't going away, especially now. I criticized the 17 year old as a wannabe Rambo lol, I don't know what else you want. I won't criticize someone who has a gun during a riot and is in or just outside their own home trying to protect their own shit. But going out into the thick of it like you're a cop, very bad idea. Okay, but none of this speaks to, nor changes my point, about the duplicity of those putting the gun culture justification thing forward, while also promoting/accepting gun culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basic_GnR_Fan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, downzy said: That's part of the job of being a cop. Granted efforts should be made to mitigate risks of injury or death, but this notion that police can use lethal force at even the hint of harm to themselves is strange. If someone can't accept that risk, they shouldn't be a cop. I agree that you can't mitigate all risks and some risk is inherent with that job. But, the devil is in the details as to what we see as reasonable and unreasonable risks for a cop to take on. I'm seeing this particular case as more than 'hint of harm" to the cops and to the kids. Just now, soon said: Okay, but none of this speaks to, nor changes my point, about the duplicity of those putting the gun culture justification thing forward, while also promoting/accepting gun culture. Yeah, it is hypocritical to hold both positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: Good luck getting people to give up their guns now that there's been riots and police pulling back and letting it happen. 2nd amendment people have a better argument than their old larpy 'we need guns to fight the government' line. Now, they can much more reasonably say, we need guns because the authorities refuse to give us law and order. So sick of hearing about that damn second amendment. That was made back in the day where guns were carried by everyone for protection from the British and the Native Americans. We don't need to carry guns around anymore. We are going backwards like living in the wild west. The British police don't carry guns and their gun violence is far less than the US. Honestly, like you said gun owners won't give their guns up, so the violence won't ever go away. And why are police still shooting people in the back? What the fuck is wrong with them? This shit has to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 you have to consider, if the police is faced with a rioting mob, who are armed with knives and guns (so called peacefull protests), and that mob is damaging private property and harrassing innocent people, that the police can't just stand by and watch. The only possible reaction is brute force. Or, "police brutality", as is the fashion word these days. No, of course the cops should not shoot people in the back or any of that stuff. But the police should very much have to act brutal, in response to a brutal mob. I hope people can understand just that. You will understand the moment it's your own property that's being the target of one of those raging mobs. Far from trying to make the police "friendlier", on the contrary the police should act even more brutal. Clearly, these "fun rioters" feel no restriction to go out and wreak havoc in the streets, so clearly the police isn't acting brutal enough. A good beating with the stick and use of the taser, that's no abundant luxury. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 40 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: It is a shit hole in many ways (with some nice shiny parts thrown in). You'll never see me be "Mr. Rah Rah America Number 1" guy. And I'd even agree that the gun culture is way over the top here. Part of that is a historical curiosity going back to this is literally a country founded on an armed rebellion. But that isn't going away, especially now. I criticized the 17 year old as a wannabe Rambo lol, I don't know what else you want. I won't criticize someone who has a gun during a riot and is in or just outside their own home trying to protect their own shit. But going out into the thick of it like you're a cop, very bad idea. Well, the news said the type of gun the 17 year old had wouldn't be sold legally to him, so the FBI is looking into this. It's either his dad's or another family member or he bought it illegally. Not surprising to me either way. He's lucky the crowd didn't take his gun away and beat the shit out of him. That's going to happen next, you'll see. What I don't get is no news talking about the rioters breaking into stores and stealing shit. Tired of seeing this. I don't care what your beefs are, this is not the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonfender2323 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said: The British police don't carry guns and their gun violence is far less than the US. This is so fucking wrong They literally have knife attacks everyday. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/london-murders-scotland-yard-peter-petrou-billy-mccullagh-a4503426.html 10 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said: So sick of hearing about that damn second amendment. That was made back in the day where guns were carried by everyone for protection from the British and the Native Americans Wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said: This is so fucking wrong They literally have knife attacks everyday. She clearly stated "gun violence." She is correct. The laughter whilst being so wrong is very unbecoming, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonfender2323 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, soon said: She clearly stated "gun violence." She is correct. The laughter whilst being so wrong is very unbecoming, btw. How am I wrong. Edited August 28, 2020 by Gibsonfender2323 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Gibsonfender2323 said: How am I wrong. Incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: Yes I value the children first, the cops second, and the suspect third. There you go with extremely unlikely to do damage to others again. No way for you to know, and more importantly, no way for the cops to know that in the key moments. It is such an asinine argument that shooting the guy was justified because of the extremely unlikely chance that if not the children would be in danger No factoring of probalities and even the concept of the probability being far away from 1 is rejected because it cannot be quantified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said: I agree that you can't mitigate all risks and some risk is inherent with that job. But, the devil is in the details as to what we see as reasonable and unreasonable risks for a cop to take on. I'm seeing this particular case as more than 'hint of harm" to the cops and to the kids. A guy was retreating towards his car and you feel it was justified to just shoot the poor bastard because he might have a gun in the car and he might brandish it towards the cops and that might lead to the children in the backseat getting hurt. Amazing. How little you value a human life. Or perhaps just the life of an assumed criminal? Or a black life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 48 minutes ago, Gibsonfender2323 said: This is so fucking wrong They literally have knife attacks everyday. You know what we don't have every day? Shootings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Im gonna place a dome over America. And Im gonna get Mexico to pay for it. Build that dome! Build that dome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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