Jump to content

New Josh Freese interview: talks about GNR, Buckethead, CD


Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Not only was the reconfiguration of Guns N' Roses a gradual thing, it happened over many years.

Axl, Duff, Slash, Dizzy, Matt, (Paul)

Axl, Duff, Dizzy, Matt, Paul

Axl, Duff, Dizzy, Vrenna, Paul

Axl, Duff, Dizzy, Robin, Paul

Axl, Dizzy, Robin, Paul,

Axl, Dizzy, Josh, Robin, Paul

Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, Josh, Robin, Paul

Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, Josh, Paul

Axl, Dizzy, Buckethead, Tommy, Josh, Paul

and so on.

All of these lineup and players were involved in the writing and/or recording of new music. I recently talked to Krys Baratto who was involved as a session musician while Matt and Duff focused on the Naurotic Ousiders and he would describe the fluidity of the band and how many people came and went. It simply wasn't a case of UYI integrating with only Axl left, and then new guys coming in. There were overlaps.

And yet it's not the same and you know it.

3 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Yep - think it was BS ft Tony Iommi?

I mean from the AFD5, Adler fired, Izzy quit as did Slash 5 years later and then Duff a further 2.....the years when it was just Axl and Duff would have been interesting.

Its always going to be one of those subjects that divides unfortunately. Fun to debate though. 👍

Yeah. Especially to know how much they actually, really worked together in that time or wether it just was a on paper thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 106
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

That last point is definitely not for sure. It's not your idea of what a Guns N Roses record is, for me it is the exact thing I consider GNR to be at least in attitude.  Also, it's murky waters w

Well, I posted the UG transcript before I watched the video. I just watched the part where he talks about CD (it's after 22:00 minute mark) and UG misheard it and transcribed it wrong.  Josh

I assume those five guys would be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Steven and Duff? Then I suppose UYI wasn't a GN'R record, either, since Matt had replaced Steven by then.  And although Chinese Democracy wasn'

1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

Geez. Don't play stupid now. You really don't want to compare the UYI situation, where a drummer was missing to the CD situation, where everyone was missing.

But everybody wasn't missing. Two of the five guys from UYI was still in the band when CD was released. Don't get me wrong, this is very different to the changes from AFD to UTI when only one person was replaced, but it was you who claimed that "GNR was a collaborative effort of 5 guys", not me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

And yet it's not the same and you know it.

The same as what? The band has been changing for every LP released (AFD->UIY->SI->CD). Yes, the changes from SI to CD were bigger, no one is denying that. I am replying to your statement that "GNR was a collaborative effort of 5 guys". Again, what five guys? Those who recorded AFD? Those who recorded UYI? Those who recorded SI? Or does it not matter who these five gys were, just that it was 5 and not 4 or 6? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But everybody wasn't missing. Two of the five guys from UYI was still in the band when CD was released. Don't get me wrong, this is very different to the changes from AFD to UTI when only one person was replaced, but it was you who claimed that "GNR was a collaborative effort of 5 guys", not me.

Once more. Dizzy is insignificant. Just ask Slash. He contributed nothing to what was GNR. AFD was the product of 5 guys. And like I stated before, I'm not talking about the odd member change were one drops out. And yes, to some even that is not GNR anymore.

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The same as what? The band has been changing for every LP released (AFD->UIY->SI->CD). Yes, the changes from SI to CD were bigger, no one is denying that. I am replying to your statement that "GNR was a collaborative effort of 5 guys". Again, what five guys? Those who recorded AFD? Those who recorded UYI? Those who recorded SI? Or does it not matter who these five gys were, just that it was 5 and not 4 or 6? 

The same as what I previously said. A gradual/organical change. Members leaving in the course of years, in the course of several albums. Not from one album to the other. And stop playing stupid now asking for every shit to be spelled out. You know which 5 guys made the original GNR allbum. And the covers album with no original song is insignifcant too.

Edited by PatrickS77
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

And I already posted that Axl himself says he doesn't consider it a solo album, so no need to bring in Stinson's take, even though that first statement probably proofs that Axl needs other people to finish a song. He's no Trent Reznor. But the band that recorded CD also no GNR. At the end of the day, he was the leader or moderator (or whatever you wanna call it, he's the one with the record deal) of that project, no matter how much others think it's an equal band situation. Just like other solo artists, like the aformentionend Ozzy and Alice and many more, wo don't do everything themselves, work.

I have always considered a solo record to be one where one man writes the music and tells the rest of the band to add their instruments. With CD it was more the case of everybody writing the music but with one who would decide which songs to continue working on and decide when one song was ready to be released (about never). I think many bands have such strong leaders with musical vision. But this just comes down to definitions, really ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, PatrickS77 said:

Nah. It's not. If I say blue is green, because I call it green, it also doesn't make it green. But yeah, no point arguing about it. What question? There are several? Hypothesises about other bands are irrelevant, when we talk about this particular band, where there was no clear leader and everyone contributed making up what GNR was. You have to look at what type of band you're dealing with and then go with that. For example Nine Inch Nails is a band in name, but we all know it's not really a band, but Trent Reznor with musicians. So in his case it's much easier to accept every effort as Nine Inch Nails, as it's basically Trent Reznor albums anyway.

Ok then, gloves off! if you insist😄to quote Conan "you're dead  wrong"🤣joking, but I don't think it's case of me just saying Green is blue. We all love GNR, and for me I grew up with seeing the old band videos and then seeing the new band on the VMAs, it looked completely different but I honestly accepted it (maybe a slight gasp at Finck🤣) from the moment I saw it. I never thought "No Slash, No GNR" and at that point in time Slash was posted on every inch of wall space in my room. Had the CD album done nothing for me, or had the CD band not entertained me live, maybe my opinion would be different now, but the CD band were better than NITL and the album is one of my all time favourites.

Like DTJ80 said, It's like Deep Purple. Obviously those line ups sometimes released multiple albums! but the essence of what he's saying is true! End of the day, the singer holds the cards! that's why when Slash is playing out ta get me with Myles it's grand, nobody would mistake it for gnr though.. but when Axl sings it with or without Slash it sounds like GNR. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I have always considered a solo record to be one where one man writes the music and tells the rest of the band to add their instruments. With CD it was more the case of everybody writing the music but with one who would decide which songs to continue working on and decide when one song was ready to be released (about never). I think many bands have such strong leaders with musical vision. But this just comes down to definitions, really ;)

Ozzy Osbourne left Black Sabbath and released solo albums ever since. You thinking that a solo album has to be created like Prince does, or close to it, doesn't change that. And no one really thinks that. And there are few solo artists, who write everything themselves.

Edited by PatrickS77
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Once more. Dizzy is insignificant. Just ask Slash. He contributed nothing to what was GNR. AFD was the product of 5 guys. And like I stated before, I'm not talking about the odd member change were one drops out. And yes, to some even that is not GNR anymore.

The same as what I previously said. A gradual/organical change. Members leaving in the course of years, in the course of several albums. Not from one album to the other.

Whether Dizzy is significant or not is an entirely subjective opinion. He definitely added his instrument to UYI and also wrote music for CD and as such he was a performing and writing member of the band, and I thought that was what we discussed.

Yes, AFD was the product of 5 guys writing together with a few other guys (like Arkeen) under the direction of a manager and being helped in studio by some other guys. And this changed slowly but surely over the years. The band never really stood still. By 1990 one drummer had been replaced and the band had got a keyboardist. By the end of 1991 a guitar player had been replaced and the touring band had got another keyboardist, three horn blowers and two additional singer. These are significant changes over few years. I would argue (without bothering to do the calculation) that the rate of changes didn't pick up much after 1994, really. The main reason why it seems so abrupt is that the various lineups didn't release anything nor did much promotion, so by the time CD came out the band had evolved so much away from how it was by the time of the last release, 14 years earlier, that it simply became too much for many fans to process.

Still, if you think that the changes becamse too much by the time CD was released for the band to still be "GN'R", that is your personal subjective opinion, and I am not going to discuss that. You are entirely entitled to your own feelings :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Whether Dizzy is significant or not is an entirely subjective opinion. He definitely added his instrument to UYI and also wrote music for CD and as such he was a performing and writing member of the band, and I thought that was what we discussed.

Yes, AFD was the product of 5 guys writing together with a few other guys (like Arkeen) under the direction of a manager and being helped in studio by some other guys. And this changed slowly but surely over the years. The band never really stood still. By 1990 one drummer had been replaced and the band had got a keyboardist. By the end of 1991 a guitar player had been replaced and the touring band had got another keyboardist, three horn blowers and two additional singer. These are significant changes over few years. I would argue (without bothering to do the calculation) that the rate of changes didn't pick up much after 1994, really. The main reason why it seems so abrupt is that the various lineups didn't release anything nor did much promotion, so by the time CD came out the band had evolved so much away from how it was by the time of the last release, 14 years earlier, that it simply became too much for many fans to process.

Still, if you think that the changes becamse too much by the time CD was released for the band to still be "GN'R", that is your personal subjective opinion, and I am not going to discuss that. You are entirely entitled to your own feelings :lol:

Up to CD Dizzy added nothing creatively to GNR. He played what he was told to play. And what he played, at the end of the day, didn't change much.

All the other changes you mention, nothing of that had to with the recorded music/albums, which we are talking about here. And there are plenty people saying that even UYI wasn't quite GNR anymore.

So AFD 5 guys = GNR. UYI 4 guys = slightly diminished GNR. CD 1 guy (+ 1 guy who previously never contributed creatively) + 6 (or however many actually ended up on the album and with writing credits) other guys = new band operating under old name. Even Axl called it a new band. And that is not my personal opinion. It's the opinion of many.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said:

But with Deep Purple it happened organically. A member left, a member came. You never had the case where only 1 member was left (Dizzy doesn't count as he never contributed anything to what used to be GNR) and all the other members in the band have never played with any of the original guys. We're not talking about the odd member change. We're talking about a singer hijacking the name and exchanging every member. So that's the difference.

Only the drummer is left from the MK1, MK3 and MK4 lineups.

Edit: I actually love all line ups of Deep Purple and GnR. But if anything there was more consistency with GnR than Deep Purple (I think most people would take a consistent singer as opposed to a consistent drummer). The key difference though is Deep Purple have a very very extensive discography.

Edited by ToonGuns
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Up to CD Dizzy added nothing creatively to GNR. He played what he was told to play. And what he played, at the end of the day, didn't change much.

All the other changes you mention, nothing of that had to with the recorded music/albums, which we are talking about here. And there are plenty people saying that even UYI wasn't quite GNR anymore.

So AFD 5 guys = GNR. UYI 4 guys = slightly diminished GNR. CD 1 guy (+ 1 guy who previously never contributed creatively) + 6 (or however many actually ended up on the album and with writing credits) other guys = new band operating under old name. Even Axl called it a new band. And that is not my personal opinion. It's the opinion of many.

Although if 4 + Dizzy = Slightly diminished GNR then 1 + Dizzy could = Extremely diminished GNR.....but still GNR!

🤪 this stuff could make you go crazy!!!

Ive often thought we should label the lines-ups Mark 1 etc.... think of the fun to be had.....but seriously we should!

Edited by DTJ80
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Although if 4 + Dizzy = Slightly diminished GNR then 1 + Dizzy could = Extremely diminished GNR.....but still GNR!

🤪 this stuff could make you go crazy!!!

Ive often thought we should label the lines-ups Mark 1 etc.... think of the fun to be had.....but seriously we should!

I refer to the lineups as:

Old

Nu 

New

OldNew

Link to post
Share on other sites

In all seriousness:

MK1 = AFD5

MK2 = UYI (so Matt + Dizzy)

MK3 = CD early days (Freese etc)

MK4 = NuGuns first lineup, so with Huge (RIR3 etc)

MK5 = NuGuns 2002 lineup (Fortus in, Huge out)

MK6 = Bumble replaces Bucket

MK7 = Frank replaces Brain

MK8 = Ashba replaces Finck

MK9 = Current

Might have missed a step.

I don't count the SFTD lineup, and you could get completely lost trying to separate all the MK3 initial lineups, so better to bulk together. I only really consider them as a serious enough lineup to justify a "MK" if they worked in the studio, toured or released music extensively.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ToonGuns said:

In all seriousness:

MK1 = AFD5

MK2 = UYI (so Matt + Dizzy)

MK3 = CD early days (Freese etc)

MK4 = NuGuns first lineup, so with Huge (RIR3 etc)

MK5 = NuGuns 2002 lineup (Fortus in, Huge out)

MK6 = Bumble replaces Bucket

MK7 = Frank replaces Brain

MK8 = Ashba replaces Finck

MK9 = Current

Might have missed a step.

I don't count the SFTD lineup, and you could get completely lost trying to separate all the MK3 initial lineups, so better to bulk together. I only really consider them as a serious enough lineup to justify a "MK" if they worked in the studio, toured or released music extensively.

This is the thing - CD-era gets trickier but I like the thinking behind this. We should get general agreement and once secured, get it stickied!

”Yeah man....MK4 is awesome”....”piss off - it’s all about MK9!!!” 😂

Now - should pre AFD be MK1 seeing as it has Traci Guns in which is key to the name.......or have I taken that too far.....!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

This is the thing - CD-era gets trickier but I like the thinking behind this. We should get general agreement and once secured, get it stickied!

”Yeah man....MK4 is awesome”....”piss off - it’s all about MK9!!!” 😂

Now - should pre AFD be MK1 seeing as it has Traci Guns in which is key to the name.......or have I taken that too far.....!

MK4 were awesome 😉

Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, ToonGuns said:

MK4 were awesome 😉

😂. But seriously....should pre-AFD be MK1? I know there were a few configurations but even the one with Tracii Guns (seeing as he helped name the band)?

A GNR family tree would be quite something....😂

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Ok then, gloves off! if you insist😄to quote Conan "you're dead  wrong"🤣joking, but I don't think it's case of me just saying Green is blue. We all love GNR, and for me I grew up with seeing the old band videos and then seeing the new band on the VMAs, it looked completely different but I honestly accepted it (maybe a slight gasp at Finck🤣) from the moment I saw it. I never thought "No Slash, No GNR" and at that point in time Slash was posted on every inch of wall space in my room. Had the CD album done nothing for me, or had the CD band not entertained me live, maybe my opinion would be different now, but the CD band were better than NITL and the album is one of my all time favourites.

Like DTJ80 said, It's like Deep Purple. Obviously those line ups sometimes released multiple albums! but the essence of what he's saying is true! End of the day, the singer holds the cards! that's why when Slash is playing out ta get me with Myles it's grand, nobody would mistake it for gnr though.. but when Axl sings it with or without Slash it sounds like GNR. 

"No Slash, No GNR"

 Personally for me, by 96 GNR was axl and slash and pretty much was when izzy left the band, during the illusion era. Though when reading interviews on the band around 96 when slash had one foot out the door, he was the only reason i was still clinging on as fan. When Slash left, to me it was GNR no more. 

I chuckle that duff considers himself one of the big3 of the current lineup because i never thought of him as one of the main players either during the AFD lineup or illusions.

From AFD to illusions, and until izzy left the band members in terms of major players would be

Izzy, axl, slash, duff, steven/matt. Once izzy left axl and slash were GNR.

Would the stones still be the stones if it was just mick or the beatles where all members left and it was just paul?

 

Edited by Sydney Fan
Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually subscribe to the theory that the band ended in 1993, thus neatly encompassing the ''no Slash no GN'R'' argument. Took me awhile to realise that it all ended back then - I suppose I wanted something to look forward to.

  • Like 2
  • GNFNR 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

That's actually a silly statement from Marc. What Slash does really well (melodic solos with impeccable note selection and churning out that great 1970s sleazy rock riffs) can not be copied by Buckethead, or anyone really, and what Buckethead does well (intense buildup and ridiculously fast yet melodic noodling) can not be copied by Slash, or anyone really. They are just very different guitarists and it is a bit bizarre that one should repøace the other.

You surely need to listen more Buckethead...he has that intense buildup and melodic noodling but he has PLENTY of just melodic and that soulful feel in his catalogue....

You thank me later!!! 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Alejandro GNR said:

You surely need to listen more Buckethead...he has that intense buildup and melodic noodling but he has PLENTY of just melodic and that soulful feel in his catalogue....

You thank me later!!! 

I know. I have listened plenty of Buckethead, but I was trying to highlights their differences.

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I actually subscribe to the theory that the band ended in 1993, thus neatly encompassing the ''no Slash no GN'R'' argument. Took me awhile to realise that it all ended back then - I suppose I wanted something to look forward to.

It ended when you lost your hair and headbanging lost all its fun.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

No. He really doesn't. NITL tour is the proof.

Yeah he does, NITL is the proof. Was Slash or Duff playing stadiums before gnr? Axl wasn't either outside of the odd big show in SA.

Slash on his own plays to 2-5000 people Axl on his own was averaging 10000 minimum... and that was without any label presence or a good manager. Slash has a brilliant label and manager. And don't go on about the bowling alley tour...

Together they are bigger, but split apart Axl was the best on his own in my opinion. I know you don't think any opinion other than yours counts but you're wrong on that too.

Edited by Tom2112
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...