08/11/21 - Fargo, ND - FargoDome

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

The internet has done a lot of good, and it's done a lot of bad. But one of the worst things it's done is produce toxic fandom. 

Unfettered access to their favorite artists, alongside likeminded people across the world who gather together in forums and on social media, has turned people into savage little entitled beasts. There's a lot things blown out of proportion, a lot of conjecture and, primarily, a fundamental misunderstanding as to what's going on here and who is owed what. Let me clear it up:

This is a rock n' roll band and no one is owed anything.

Think about that. Axl Rose is a 59 year old man playing in a rock n' roll band with his buddies and playing music he finds interesting. If it's not to your liking, then that's fine. I don't like everything a band (or this band in particular) releases either. But I take it for what it is: a guy wrote a song that I don't like. He's not forcing me to buy it. He's not tainting my childhood memories. He's not taking money from me. He can't possibly ruin something I love, because it's *NOT MINE.* It's his! 

Think about any other business - a restaurant, for example. If they change the menu and I don't like it...no one cares. I don't get on an internet message board and call the chef a fat cunt who is lazy and doesn't care about his clientele (and if I did, I'd be *INSANE*). If enough people agree with me, then business will slow, and the restaurant will either make a decision to change or fold up. But, if I don't like the new menu, but thousands and thousands of other people do...then it's just time for me to admit that the world doesn't revolve around me and to find a new restaurant.

With regards to his live performances: "well he doesn't care and he's ripping the fans off." No. Perhaps, and this might shock some of you, he's doing his best and this is the best he can do right now. Maybe his voice just isn't there right now. Here's the misunderstanding: when you buy a concert ticket, you are not buying a ticket to a flawless performance. You are buying a ticket to see the performer, as they are, performing the songs the way they want to perform them. That's what they're selling - a live take on their music. Whether you find the quality sufficient enough is irrelevant - if you don't like the performance, don't buy a ticket. Your money will talk. If you choose to spend money and buy a ticket and Axl's voice isn't to your liking then, honestly, it's no different than "I ordered the steak and it wasn't as good as I'd like."

"Well he's not in as good shape as he could be/he needs to try harder." He doesn't have to do anything. Again - you're buying a ticket for Guns N' Roses *as they are.* I used to bartend full time. Now I bartend one night a week. I *could* take the time and still practice making cocktails, or learning new ones, and continue to hone my craft. But, honestly, I don't want to. I know enough to do my job. People still show up to the bar and have a good time. And if people don't like that, then, frankly, they can find another bar. Same thing goes with the Guns shows. By the way - for all the vocal geniuses on here who swore that Axl's weight was impacting his vocal performance - he's in better shape now than he was for the Axl DC and 2016 shows, but his voice isn't. So next time some genius tells you that Axl would sound better if he spent his life crushing chicken and broccoli and on the treadmill, remember that.

"The setlists are too static, this is the same old boring show we've seen" - it's the same old boring show *you've* seen because we're diehards on a fan message board who follow every show. The amount of 'us' in the audience night-to-night is so miniscule it would shock you. The average concert goer at a Guns N' Roses show is someone who likes their music - probably from the first few albums - and just wants to see a rock show. They don't care if Guns played the same set in Hershey as they did in Fenway - they're experiencing the show for the first time. Or if it's not their first time, they're going to see the show because it's not about hearing all fresh material - it's about the live experience, hearing the songs live, watching the band perform them, and just feeling the vibe. Great songs don't depreciate over time - that's why we're here listening to songs from 1987 still. 

If I go see Hamilton on Broadway and then, two years later, I see it when it's touring DC, I don't complain because they didn't write a new third act. I'm not complaining if Lin Manuel Miranda doesn't sing quite as well as he did in New York. I'm there to experience that show.

I also get the impression from reading these boards that quite a bit of fans who post here are in their teens or 20s, which is honestly pretty cool. Some of you have mentioned that you got into the band after Chinese Democracy, which is pleasantly surprising to me. Unfortunately, a lot of you clamoring for new music don't get that this band is firmly a legacy act at this point: they could release the greatest album of the last 30 years and the world will collectively shrug and say "it's not bad...now play Sweet Child O' Mine."

We, the diehard fans, want to hear Hard School and any other new tunes the band might have. Just understand that, when they pull it out, 85-90% of the crowd isn't going to give a flying fuck. Of those 85-90%, if the band can get maybe 10-20% of them to be interested enough to check out the new material, then that's a win. That's the reality here. So when you're bitching about how the band doesn't give a fuck about its fans, understand that you're likely incorrect: they give a fuck about the majority of the fans there to see the show. That's why they're playing the hits. That's why This I Love and Coma and Locomotive are expendable but You Could Be Mine and Nightrain are untouchable. They know their audience.

"Team Brazil are evil/incompetent." You don't know these people. I'll say it again: YOU DON'T KNOW THEM. At all! I don't give a shit what Beta posts on Instagram - you don't know her! She might be the root of all evil. She might be just a sweet woman who cares for Axl Rose. I don't know! And I don't care because I'll *never* know. And it doesn't impact me one bit. I don't have to have lunch with Beta or Fernando. Axl probably does and, after all this time, I think it's pretty safe to say that he likes them and that's really all that matters. He's their boss and, if he's satisfied with their work (the NITL is one of the most profitable tours of all time so I don't know if 'incompetent' is the word I'd use), then that's all that matters. But I get on Instagram, and on these forums, and I read people calling Beta and Fernando cunts and manipulators and all other types of vile shit. When in reality they're just two people trying to do a fucking job like anyone else and, again, it's only fucking rock n' roll. 

"This band has done nothing in the studio." Again - despite what anybody here tells you, nobody knows shit. No one is an insider. People can speculate to their heart's desire, but you don't know if Axl has been in a studio. You don't know what's been done. You don't know if they have a backlog of material or if they have nothing. We have some leaked sessions from twenty years ago. That's the extent of it. Anyone who tells you otherwise - like that guy who leaked the Village Sessions and just seems to spend all his time trolling Team Brazil on Instagram - is insane.

This band is no different than, say, the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Have we been emotionally invested in it for quite some time? Yes. Do some of the movies suck every once in a while? Sure. But that doesn't make Kevin Feige a lying thief who doesn't care about his fanbase. Everyone needs to just calm down.

[We love Axl Rose]

2 hours ago, Dani_1455 said:

Has anybody seen any videos from the last show?? Because I have only seen Nightrain.

If anyone can help me, I would be very proud😁

There are no other videos on youtube for now. Looks like there are no cell phones in Fargo or people don’t use youtube lol.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

This is the worst band since GNR started with Traci - they sound real bad - not even talking about Axl 

even 2011-2014 was better 

GET REAL 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

 

Joking or not, How many people here wanted Absurd/Silworms? I have no problem if Axl sings Absurd, Wichita Lineman and The Seeker in the shower. People buying tickets deserve a lot more

 

So you mean the other 20 songs they played weren't enough for the audience? Where's the uproar of the thousand people that were there last Night yelling "we deserved more". You're being a little baby and you know it.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

Just now, Stay.Of.Execution said:

So you mean the other 20 songs they played weren't enough for the audience? Where's the uproar of the thousand people that were there last Night yelling "we deserved more". You're being a little baby and you know it.

the other 20 songs they've recycled for 40 years hmmm yeah ok..

[Stay.Of.Execution]

Just now, double talkin jive mfkr said:

the other 20 songs they've recycled for 40 years hmmm yeah ok..

You know they only have like a handful of albums? Maybe you're mistaking them with another band you like. Maybe Nickelback?

[double talkin jive mfkr]

Just now, Stay.Of.Execution said:

You know they only have like a handful of albums? Maybe you're mistaking them with another band you like. Maybe Nickelback?

that was an ok burn 

but don't make me list all the songs they haven't played but in a way thats ok cause they'd butcher the shit out of eveyrone one of them because they have ZERO rhythm section anyways 

[Tom2112]

49 minutes ago, adamsapple said:

More like him and whoever did the piss poor job on editing, mixing, mastering and tricking Slash and Duff into laying down guitar and bass for this track. Produced by whoever whispered in his ear that this track might have "potential" and come "out of left field" to "gain attention" and be a good opportunity to let the music crack a "joke" at the expense of the fanbase who is the very foundation of him being in the position to pollute the air with such nonsense in the first place.

It's not new, it's a 20 year old leftover that's been tinkered to death with because he can't songwrite his way out of a wet paperback anymore.

It's not a song, it's an abortion of a brainfart, a prime example of how to not do it, a slap in the face of everyone who regardless personal taste and preferences actually does make an effort to produce music worth listening to.

If people who have no use for the work he's being paid millions of dollars for don't attend his shows or buy his records anymore, that's okay, he doesn't give a fuck anyway. Only thing he cares for is money and he got plenty of that.

He's used to playing half empty venues and weddings with DJ Ashba TM, but even with Slash back in the band they already had to hand out free tickets to fill up Detroit to at least 60% capacity - while the tour's next stop is fucking Fargo of all places. What's next? Joe's Bar in Shittown, Nowhere?

So much for "all new show", "we're back" and a potential "new album".

Take a deep breath🤣 

Whether you like it or not you should at least be positive about an officially released song from GNR. Is it the song I hoped for? nah, but I don't hate it! in fact it's so nasty it's growing on me... I'm not going to be listening to it on repeat though. 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

Just now, Tom2112 said:

Take a deep breath🤣 

Whether you like it or not you should at least be positive about an officially released song from GNR. Is it the song I hoped for? nah, but I don't hate it! in fact it's so nasty it's growing on me... I'm not going to be listening to it on repeat though. 

it was fun to listen the first time cause of the WTF of it but it is ATROCIOUS like a torture chamber song LITERALLY 

[RussTCB]

21 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

The internet has done a lot of good, and it's done a lot of bad. But one of the worst things it's done is produce toxic fandom. 

Unfettered access to their favorite artists, alongside likeminded people across the world who gather together in forums and on social media, has turned people into savage little entitled beasts. There's a lot things blown out of proportion, a lot of conjecture and, primarily, a fundamental misunderstanding as to what's going on here and who is owed what. Let me clear it up:

This is a rock n' roll band and no one is owed anything.

Think about that. Axl Rose is a 59 year old man playing in a rock n' roll band with his buddies and playing music he finds interesting. If it's not to your liking, then that's fine. I don't like everything a band (or this band in particular) releases either. But I take it for what it is: a guy wrote a song that I don't like. He's not forcing me to buy it. He's not tainting my childhood memories. He's not taking money from me. He can't possibly ruin something I love, because it's *NOT MINE.* It's his! 

Think about any other business - a restaurant, for example. If they change the menu and I don't like it...no one cares. I don't get on an internet message board and call the chef a fat cunt who is lazy and doesn't care about his clientele (and if I did, I'd be *INSANE*). If enough people agree with me, then business will slow, and the restaurant will either make a decision to change or fold up. But, if I don't like the new menu, but thousands and thousands of other people do...then it's just time for me to admit that the world doesn't revolve around me and to find a new restaurant.

With regards to his live performances: "well he doesn't care and he's ripping the fans off." No. Perhaps, and this might shock some of you, he's doing his best and this is the best he can do right now. Maybe his voice just isn't there right now. Here's the misunderstanding: when you buy a concert ticket, you are not buying a ticket to a flawless performance. You are buying a ticket to see the performer, as they are, performing the songs the way they want to perform them. That's what they're selling - a live take on their music. Whether you find the quality sufficient enough is irrelevant - if you don't like the performance, don't buy a ticket. Your money will talk. If you choose to spend money and buy a ticket and Axl's voice isn't to your liking then, honestly, it's no different than "I ordered the steak and it wasn't as good as I'd like."

"Well he's not in as good shape as he could be/he needs to try harder." He doesn't have to do anything. Again - you're buying a ticket for Guns N' Roses *as they are.* I used to bartend full time. Now I bartend one night a week. I *could* take the time and still practice making cocktails, or learning new ones, and continue to hone my craft. But, honestly, I don't want to. I know enough to do my job. People still show up to the bar and have a good time. And if people don't like that, then, frankly, they can find another bar. Same thing goes with the Guns shows. By the way - for all the vocal geniuses on here who swore that Axl's weight was impacting his vocal performance - he's in better shape now than he was for the Axl DC and 2016 shows, but his voice isn't. So next time some genius tells you that Axl would sound better if he spent his life crushing chicken and broccoli and on the treadmill, remember that.

"The setlists are too static, this is the same old boring show we've seen" - it's the same old boring show *you've* seen because we're diehards on a fan message board who follow every show. The amount of 'us' in the audience night-to-night is so miniscule it would shock you. The average concert goer at a Guns N' Roses show is someone who likes their music - probably from the first few albums - and just wants to see a rock show. They don't care if Guns played the same set in Hershey as they did in Fenway - they're experiencing the show for the first time. Or if it's not their first time, they're going to see the show because it's not about hearing all fresh material - it's about the live experience, hearing the songs live, watching the band perform them, and just feeling the vibe. Great songs don't depreciate over time - that's why we're here listening to songs from 1987 still. 

If I go see Hamilton on Broadway and then, two years later, I see it when it's touring DC, I don't complain because they didn't write a new third act. I'm not complaining if Lin Manuel Miranda doesn't sing quite as well as he did in New York. I'm there to experience that show.

I also get the impression from reading these boards that quite a bit of fans who post here are in their teens or 20s, which is honestly pretty cool. Some of you have mentioned that you got into the band after Chinese Democracy, which is pleasantly surprising to me. Unfortunately, a lot of you clamoring for new music don't get that this band is firmly a legacy act at this point: they could release the greatest album of the last 30 years and the world will collectively shrug and say "it's not bad...now play Sweet Child O' Mine."

We, the diehard fans, want to hear Hard School and any other new tunes the band might have. Just understand that, when they pull it out, 85-90% of the crowd isn't going to give a flying fuck. Of those 85-90%, if the band can get maybe 10-20% of them to be interested enough to check out the new material, then that's a win. That's the reality here. So when you're bitching about how the band doesn't give a fuck about its fans, understand that you're likely incorrect: they give a fuck about the majority of the fans there to see the show. That's why they're playing the hits. That's why This I Love and Coma and Locomotive are expendable but You Could Be Mine and Nightrain are untouchable. They know their audience.

"Team Brazil are evil/incompetent." You don't know these people. I'll say it again: YOU DON'T KNOW THEM. At all! I don't give a shit what Beta posts on Instagram - you don't know her! She might be the root of all evil. She might be just a sweet woman who cares for Axl Rose. I don't know! And I don't care because I'll *never* know. And it doesn't impact me one bit. I don't have to have lunch with Beta or Fernando. Axl probably does and, after all this time, I think it's pretty safe to say that he likes them and that's really all that matters. He's their boss and, if he's satisfied with their work (the NITL is one of the most profitable tours of all time so I don't know if 'incompetent' is the word I'd use), then that's all that matters. But I get on Instagram, and on these forums, and I read people calling Beta and Fernando cunts and manipulators and all other types of vile shit. When in reality they're just two people trying to do a fucking job like anyone else and, again, it's only fucking rock n' roll. 

"This band has done nothing in the studio." Again - despite what anybody here tells you, nobody knows shit. No one is an insider. People can speculate to their heart's desire, but you don't know if Axl has been in a studio. You don't know what's been done. You don't know if they have a backlog of material or if they have nothing. We have some leaked sessions from twenty years ago. That's the extent of it. Anyone who tells you otherwise - like that guy who leaked the Village Sessions and just seems to spend all his time trolling Team Brazil on Instagram - is insane.

This band is no different than, say, the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Have we been emotionally invested in it for quite some time? Yes. Do some of the movies suck every once in a while? Sure. But that doesn't make Kevin Feige a lying thief who doesn't care about his fanbase. Everyone needs to just calm down.

Ah yes, the old "anyone who doesn't immediately praise everything is a toxic fan" argument. 

This is a discussion forum. Fans are going to come here to discuss what goes on with the band, good bad or indifferent. 

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

Just now, RussTCB said:

Ah yes, the old "anyone who doesn't immediately praise everything is a toxic fan" argument. 

This is a discussion forum. Fans are going to come here to discuss what goes on with the band, good bad or indifferent. 

You're missing the point of what I said.

I don't think everyone should immediately praise anything. Honestly, it took me a few days to warm up to Absurd.

I'm saying that I think it's odd how *personally* people seem to take it. Read some of the comments on Instagram, dude. 

[kanecrescente]

30 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

The internet has done a lot of good, and it's done a lot of bad. But one of the worst things it's done is produce toxic fandom. 

Unfettered access to their favorite artists, alongside likeminded people across the world who gather together in forums and on social media, has turned people into savage little entitled beasts. There's a lot things blown out of proportion, a lot of conjecture and, primarily, a fundamental misunderstanding as to what's going on here and who is owed what. Let me clear it up:

This is a rock n' roll band and no one is owed anything.

Think about that. Axl Rose is a 59 year old man playing in a rock n' roll band with his buddies and playing music he finds interesting. If it's not to your liking, then that's fine. I don't like everything a band (or this band in particular) releases either. But I take it for what it is: a guy wrote a song that I don't like. He's not forcing me to buy it. He's not tainting my childhood memories. He's not taking money from me. He can't possibly ruin something I love, because it's *NOT MINE.* It's his! 

Think about any other business - a restaurant, for example. If they change the menu and I don't like it...no one cares. I don't get on an internet message board and call the chef a fat cunt who is lazy and doesn't care about his clientele (and if I did, I'd be *INSANE*). If enough people agree with me, then business will slow, and the restaurant will either make a decision to change or fold up. But, if I don't like the new menu, but thousands and thousands of other people do...then it's just time for me to admit that the world doesn't revolve around me and to find a new restaurant.

With regards to his live performances: "well he doesn't care and he's ripping the fans off." No. Perhaps, and this might shock some of you, he's doing his best and this is the best he can do right now. Maybe his voice just isn't there right now. Here's the misunderstanding: when you buy a concert ticket, you are not buying a ticket to a flawless performance. You are buying a ticket to see the performer, as they are, performing the songs the way they want to perform them. That's what they're selling - a live take on their music. Whether you find the quality sufficient enough is irrelevant - if you don't like the performance, don't buy a ticket. Your money will talk. If you choose to spend money and buy a ticket and Axl's voice isn't to your liking then, honestly, it's no different than "I ordered the steak and it wasn't as good as I'd like."

"Well he's not in as good shape as he could be/he needs to try harder." He doesn't have to do anything. Again - you're buying a ticket for Guns N' Roses *as they are.* I used to bartend full time. Now I bartend one night a week. I *could* take the time and still practice making cocktails, or learning new ones, and continue to hone my craft. But, honestly, I don't want to. I know enough to do my job. People still show up to the bar and have a good time. And if people don't like that, then, frankly, they can find another bar. Same thing goes with the Guns shows. By the way - for all the vocal geniuses on here who swore that Axl's weight was impacting his vocal performance - he's in better shape now than he was for the Axl DC and 2016 shows, but his voice isn't. So next time some genius tells you that Axl would sound better if he spent his life crushing chicken and broccoli and on the treadmill, remember that.

"The setlists are too static, this is the same old boring show we've seen" - it's the same old boring show *you've* seen because we're diehards on a fan message board who follow every show. The amount of 'us' in the audience night-to-night is so miniscule it would shock you. The average concert goer at a Guns N' Roses show is someone who likes their music - probably from the first few albums - and just wants to see a rock show. They don't care if Guns played the same set in Hershey as they did in Fenway - they're experiencing the show for the first time. Or if it's not their first time, they're going to see the show because it's not about hearing all fresh material - it's about the live experience, hearing the songs live, watching the band perform them, and just feeling the vibe. Great songs don't depreciate over time - that's why we're here listening to songs from 1987 still. 

If I go see Hamilton on Broadway and then, two years later, I see it when it's touring DC, I don't complain because they didn't write a new third act. I'm not complaining if Lin Manuel Miranda doesn't sing quite as well as he did in New York. I'm there to experience that show.

I also get the impression from reading these boards that quite a bit of fans who post here are in their teens or 20s, which is honestly pretty cool. Some of you have mentioned that you got into the band after Chinese Democracy, which is pleasantly surprising to me. Unfortunately, a lot of you clamoring for new music don't get that this band is firmly a legacy act at this point: they could release the greatest album of the last 30 years and the world will collectively shrug and say "it's not bad...now play Sweet Child O' Mine."

We, the diehard fans, want to hear Hard School and any other new tunes the band might have. Just understand that, when they pull it out, 85-90% of the crowd isn't going to give a flying fuck. Of those 85-90%, if the band can get maybe 10-20% of them to be interested enough to check out the new material, then that's a win. That's the reality here. So when you're bitching about how the band doesn't give a fuck about its fans, understand that you're likely incorrect: they give a fuck about the majority of the fans there to see the show. That's why they're playing the hits. That's why This I Love and Coma and Locomotive are expendable but You Could Be Mine and Nightrain are untouchable. They know their audience.

"Team Brazil are evil/incompetent." You don't know these people. I'll say it again: YOU DON'T KNOW THEM. At all! I don't give a shit what Beta posts on Instagram - you don't know her! She might be the root of all evil. She might be just a sweet woman who cares for Axl Rose. I don't know! And I don't care because I'll *never* know. And it doesn't impact me one bit. I don't have to have lunch with Beta or Fernando. Axl probably does and, after all this time, I think it's pretty safe to say that he likes them and that's really all that matters. He's their boss and, if he's satisfied with their work (the NITL is one of the most profitable tours of all time so I don't know if 'incompetent' is the word I'd use), then that's all that matters. But I get on Instagram, and on these forums, and I read people calling Beta and Fernando cunts and manipulators and all other types of vile shit. When in reality they're just two people trying to do a fucking job like anyone else and, again, it's only fucking rock n' roll. 

"This band has done nothing in the studio." Again - despite what anybody here tells you, nobody knows shit. No one is an insider. People can speculate to their heart's desire, but you don't know if Axl has been in a studio. You don't know what's been done. You don't know if they have a backlog of material or if they have nothing. We have some leaked sessions from twenty years ago. That's the extent of it. Anyone who tells you otherwise - like that guy who leaked the Village Sessions and just seems to spend all his time trolling Team Brazil on Instagram - is insane.

This band is no different than, say, the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Have we been emotionally invested in it for quite some time? Yes. Do some of the movies suck every once in a while? Sure. But that doesn't make Kevin Feige a lying thief who doesn't care about his fanbase. Everyone needs to just calm down.

You calm down, Beta.

[RussTCB]

5 minutes ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

You're missing the point of what I said.

I don't think everyone should immediately praise anything. Honestly, it took me a few days to warm up to Absurd.

I'm saying that I think it's odd how *personally* people seem to take it. Read some of the comments on Instagram, dude. 

This forum isn't Instagram. I (along with many of us) don't even follow the band on social media. 

[ZoSoRose]

I’m going to disagree that the band is bad, they’re insanely tight right now. None of the musicians are the problem

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, adamsapple said:

It's not a song, it's an abortion of a brainfart, a prime example of how to not do it, a slap in the face of everyone who regardless personal taste and preferences actually does make an effort to produce music worth listening to.

If people who have no use for the work he's being paid millions of dollars for don't attend his shows or buy his records anymore, that's okay, he doesn't give a fuck anyway. Only thing he cares for is money and he got plenty of that.

He's used to playing half empty venues and weddings with DJ Ashba TM, but even with Slash back in the band they already had to hand out free tickets to fill up Detroit to at least 60% capacity - while the tour's next stop is fucking Fargo of all places. What's next? Joe's Bar in Shittown, Nowhere?

So much for "all new show", "we're back" and a potential "new album".

Dude, why are you so mad? Seriously... every post you make on here is full of assumptions and anger. Relax already... it's just a rock n roll band!

Just because you don't like the song, doesn't mean no one else can't like it. It's called subjectivity.

[Padme]

23 minutes ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

So you mean the other 20 songs they played weren't enough for the audience? Where's the uproar of the thousand people that were there last Night yelling "we deserved more". You're being a little baby and you know it.

Are you saying those people bought tickets because they wanted to hear Absurd and the Seeker? I'm not saying they wanted to listen Perfect Crime. But the set list could be much better. And a song like Absurd doesn't make the show better

 

[Stay.Of.Execution]

Just now, Padme said:

 And a song like Absurd doesn't make the show better

 

For some people it might. Doesn't make the show worse either. 

 

 

[Padme]

1 minute ago, Stay.Of.Execution said:

For some people it might. Doesn't make the show worse either. 

 

 

Then, we have to agree to disagree

[GoBucky]

43 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

This is the worst band since GNR started with Traci - they sound real bad - not even talking about Axl 

even 2011-2014 was better 

GET REAL 

After seeing them Sunday, this is absolutely not true.

[El Guapo]

2 hours ago, adamsapple said:

More like him and whoever did the piss poor job on editing, mixing, mastering and tricking Slash and Duff into laying down guitar and bass for this track. Produced by whoever whispered in his ear that this track might have "potential" and come "out of left field" to "gain attention" and be a good opportunity to let the music crack a "joke" at the expense of the fanbase who is the very foundation of him being in the position to pollute the air with such nonsense in the first place.

It's not new, it's a 20 year old leftover that's been tinkered to death with because he can't songwrite his way out of a wet paperback anymore.

It's not a song, it's an abortion of a brainfart, a prime example of how to not do it, a slap in the face of everyone who regardless personal taste and preferences actually does make an effort to produce music worth listening to.

If people who have no use for the work he's being paid millions of dollars for don't attend his shows or buy his records anymore, that's okay, he doesn't give a fuck anyway. Only thing he cares for is money and he got plenty of that.

He's used to playing half empty venues and weddings with DJ Ashba TM, but even with Slash back in the band they already had to hand out free tickets to fill up Detroit to at least 60% capacity - while the tour's next stop is fucking Fargo of all places. What's next? Joe's Bar in Shittown, Nowhere?

So much for "all new show", "we're back" and a potential "new album".

So...you don't like Absurd?

[Padme]

44 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

it was fun to listen the first time cause of the WTF of it but it is ATROCIOUS like a torture chamber song LITERALLY 

Don't be susprised if the next show they have Izzy as guest. They play Dust N Bones and Pretty Tied Up. And a bunch of people from this forums are going to scream "Hey play Absurd!!! Those songs fuckin suck!!!   

[allwaystired]

1 hour ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

The internet has done a lot of good, and it's done a lot of bad. But one of the worst things it's done is produce toxic fandom. 

Unfettered access to their favorite artists, alongside likeminded people across the world who gather together in forums and on social media, has turned people into savage little entitled beasts. There's a lot things blown out of proportion, a lot of conjecture and, primarily, a fundamental misunderstanding as to what's going on here and who is owed what. Let me clear it up:

This is a rock n' roll band and no one is owed anything.

Think about that. Axl Rose is a 59 year old man playing in a rock n' roll band with his buddies and playing music he finds interesting. If it's not to your liking, then that's fine. I don't like everything a band (or this band in particular) releases either. But I take it for what it is: a guy wrote a song that I don't like. He's not forcing me to buy it. He's not tainting my childhood memories. He's not taking money from me. He can't possibly ruin something I love, because it's *NOT MINE.* It's his! 

Think about any other business - a restaurant, for example. If they change the menu and I don't like it...no one cares. I don't get on an internet message board and call the chef a fat cunt who is lazy and doesn't care about his clientele (and if I did, I'd be *INSANE*). If enough people agree with me, then business will slow, and the restaurant will either make a decision to change or fold up. But, if I don't like the new menu, but thousands and thousands of other people do...then it's just time for me to admit that the world doesn't revolve around me and to find a new restaurant.

With regards to his live performances: "well he doesn't care and he's ripping the fans off." No. Perhaps, and this might shock some of you, he's doing his best and this is the best he can do right now. Maybe his voice just isn't there right now. Here's the misunderstanding: when you buy a concert ticket, you are not buying a ticket to a flawless performance. You are buying a ticket to see the performer, as they are, performing the songs the way they want to perform them. That's what they're selling - a live take on their music. Whether you find the quality sufficient enough is irrelevant - if you don't like the performance, don't buy a ticket. Your money will talk. If you choose to spend money and buy a ticket and Axl's voice isn't to your liking then, honestly, it's no different than "I ordered the steak and it wasn't as good as I'd like."

"Well he's not in as good shape as he could be/he needs to try harder." He doesn't have to do anything. Again - you're buying a ticket for Guns N' Roses *as they are.* I used to bartend full time. Now I bartend one night a week. I *could* take the time and still practice making cocktails, or learning new ones, and continue to hone my craft. But, honestly, I don't want to. I know enough to do my job. People still show up to the bar and have a good time. And if people don't like that, then, frankly, they can find another bar. Same thing goes with the Guns shows. By the way - for all the vocal geniuses on here who swore that Axl's weight was impacting his vocal performance - he's in better shape now than he was for the Axl DC and 2016 shows, but his voice isn't. So next time some genius tells you that Axl would sound better if he spent his life crushing chicken and broccoli and on the treadmill, remember that.

"The setlists are too static, this is the same old boring show we've seen" - it's the same old boring show *you've* seen because we're diehards on a fan message board who follow every show. The amount of 'us' in the audience night-to-night is so miniscule it would shock you. The average concert goer at a Guns N' Roses show is someone who likes their music - probably from the first few albums - and just wants to see a rock show. They don't care if Guns played the same set in Hershey as they did in Fenway - they're experiencing the show for the first time. Or if it's not their first time, they're going to see the show because it's not about hearing all fresh material - it's about the live experience, hearing the songs live, watching the band perform them, and just feeling the vibe. Great songs don't depreciate over time - that's why we're here listening to songs from 1987 still. 

If I go see Hamilton on Broadway and then, two years later, I see it when it's touring DC, I don't complain because they didn't write a new third act. I'm not complaining if Lin Manuel Miranda doesn't sing quite as well as he did in New York. I'm there to experience that show.

I also get the impression from reading these boards that quite a bit of fans who post here are in their teens or 20s, which is honestly pretty cool. Some of you have mentioned that you got into the band after Chinese Democracy, which is pleasantly surprising to me. Unfortunately, a lot of you clamoring for new music don't get that this band is firmly a legacy act at this point: they could release the greatest album of the last 30 years and the world will collectively shrug and say "it's not bad...now play Sweet Child O' Mine."

We, the diehard fans, want to hear Hard School and any other new tunes the band might have. Just understand that, when they pull it out, 85-90% of the crowd isn't going to give a flying fuck. Of those 85-90%, if the band can get maybe 10-20% of them to be interested enough to check out the new material, then that's a win. That's the reality here. So when you're bitching about how the band doesn't give a fuck about its fans, understand that you're likely incorrect: they give a fuck about the majority of the fans there to see the show. That's why they're playing the hits. That's why This I Love and Coma and Locomotive are expendable but You Could Be Mine and Nightrain are untouchable. They know their audience.

"Team Brazil are evil/incompetent." You don't know these people. I'll say it again: YOU DON'T KNOW THEM. At all! I don't give a shit what Beta posts on Instagram - you don't know her! She might be the root of all evil. She might be just a sweet woman who cares for Axl Rose. I don't know! And I don't care because I'll *never* know. And it doesn't impact me one bit. I don't have to have lunch with Beta or Fernando. Axl probably does and, after all this time, I think it's pretty safe to say that he likes them and that's really all that matters. He's their boss and, if he's satisfied with their work (the NITL is one of the most profitable tours of all time so I don't know if 'incompetent' is the word I'd use), then that's all that matters. But I get on Instagram, and on these forums, and I read people calling Beta and Fernando cunts and manipulators and all other types of vile shit. When in reality they're just two people trying to do a fucking job like anyone else and, again, it's only fucking rock n' roll. 

"This band has done nothing in the studio." Again - despite what anybody here tells you, nobody knows shit. No one is an insider. People can speculate to their heart's desire, but you don't know if Axl has been in a studio. You don't know what's been done. You don't know if they have a backlog of material or if they have nothing. We have some leaked sessions from twenty years ago. That's the extent of it. Anyone who tells you otherwise - like that guy who leaked the Village Sessions and just seems to spend all his time trolling Team Brazil on Instagram - is insane.

This band is no different than, say, the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Have we been emotionally invested in it for quite some time? Yes. Do some of the movies suck every once in a while? Sure. But that doesn't make Kevin Feige a lying thief who doesn't care about his fanbase. Everyone needs to just calm down.

"They don't owe you anything"...been, oh, two weeks now since we heard that one. 

Comparing a band to a theatre production and, shudder, the "Marvel Cinematic Universe" (I presume that's lifted directly from some marketing strategy too corporate to even contemplate!) is obviously ludicrous. 

Glad you got it all off your chest though. You've sort of covered all the "fuck all da haterz" base cliches in one post. Others can just handily cut and paste this next time they fancy bringing all these things up to create a scene in an attempt to be the One True Fan.

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by allwaystired

[GoodOlJohnnyK]

I do admit, I feel a lot better. Thanks.

[James Bond]

Just watched the Nightrain from this show. While undoubtedly much improved (a great overall performance and a killer outro solo from Slash), some of what is happening with Axl's voice is still somewhat worrying to me. His approach to the verses was much better and sounded great. Dropping out on the first "I'm on the nightrain..." leading into the first chorus didn't seem intentional, but it kind of worked. Melissa and Duff join in there anyways so it sounds totally fine. I've said many times that he should take full advantage of having a second high voice there and use Melissa more.

My concern was mostly in the outro where some of it still sounds outright painful. Painful for him, that is. Then on the final "one... more... time... to... NIGHT" his voice just barely hangs out and he goes low on the "night."

Again, sounds kind of cool like that but I think this might be a song where they could drop it just one extra semitone and that might put it in a more comfortable performing space. Axl's range to now really hasn't been an issue, even during the height of Mickey vocals, but I think that could help out on this song in particular.

 

[Martin Riggs]

1 hour ago, GoodOlJohnnyK said:

The internet has done a lot of good, and it's done a lot of bad. But one of the worst things it's done is produce toxic fandom. 

Unfettered access to their favorite artists, alongside likeminded people across the world who gather together in forums and on social media, has turned people into savage little entitled beasts. There's a lot things blown out of proportion, a lot of conjecture and, primarily, a fundamental misunderstanding as to what's going on here and who is owed what. Let me clear it up:

This is a rock n' roll band and no one is owed anything.

Think about that. Axl Rose is a 59 year old man playing in a rock n' roll band with his buddies and playing music he finds interesting. If it's not to your liking, then that's fine. I don't like everything a band (or this band in particular) releases either. But I take it for what it is: a guy wrote a song that I don't like. He's not forcing me to buy it. He's not tainting my childhood memories. He's not taking money from me. He can't possibly ruin something I love, because it's *NOT MINE.* It's his! 

Think about any other business - a restaurant, for example. If they change the menu and I don't like it...no one cares. I don't get on an internet message board and call the chef a fat cunt who is lazy and doesn't care about his clientele (and if I did, I'd be *INSANE*). If enough people agree with me, then business will slow, and the restaurant will either make a decision to change or fold up. But, if I don't like the new menu, but thousands and thousands of other people do...then it's just time for me to admit that the world doesn't revolve around me and to find a new restaurant.

With regards to his live performances: "well he doesn't care and he's ripping the fans off." No. Perhaps, and this might shock some of you, he's doing his best and this is the best he can do right now. Maybe his voice just isn't there right now. Here's the misunderstanding: when you buy a concert ticket, you are not buying a ticket to a flawless performance. You are buying a ticket to see the performer, as they are, performing the songs the way they want to perform them. That's what they're selling - a live take on their music. Whether you find the quality sufficient enough is irrelevant - if you don't like the performance, don't buy a ticket. Your money will talk. If you choose to spend money and buy a ticket and Axl's voice isn't to your liking then, honestly, it's no different than "I ordered the steak and it wasn't as good as I'd like."

"Well he's not in as good shape as he could be/he needs to try harder." He doesn't have to do anything. Again - you're buying a ticket for Guns N' Roses *as they are.* I used to bartend full time. Now I bartend one night a week. I *could* take the time and still practice making cocktails, or learning new ones, and continue to hone my craft. But, honestly, I don't want to. I know enough to do my job. People still show up to the bar and have a good time. And if people don't like that, then, frankly, they can find another bar. Same thing goes with the Guns shows. By the way - for all the vocal geniuses on here who swore that Axl's weight was impacting his vocal performance - he's in better shape now than he was for the Axl DC and 2016 shows, but his voice isn't. So next time some genius tells you that Axl would sound better if he spent his life crushing chicken and broccoli and on the treadmill, remember that.

"The setlists are too static, this is the same old boring show we've seen" - it's the same old boring show *you've* seen because we're diehards on a fan message board who follow every show. The amount of 'us' in the audience night-to-night is so miniscule it would shock you. The average concert goer at a Guns N' Roses show is someone who likes their music - probably from the first few albums - and just wants to see a rock show. They don't care if Guns played the same set in Hershey as they did in Fenway - they're experiencing the show for the first time. Or if it's not their first time, they're going to see the show because it's not about hearing all fresh material - it's about the live experience, hearing the songs live, watching the band perform them, and just feeling the vibe. Great songs don't depreciate over time - that's why we're here listening to songs from 1987 still. 

If I go see Hamilton on Broadway and then, two years later, I see it when it's touring DC, I don't complain because they didn't write a new third act. I'm not complaining if Lin Manuel Miranda doesn't sing quite as well as he did in New York. I'm there to experience that show.

I also get the impression from reading these boards that quite a bit of fans who post here are in their teens or 20s, which is honestly pretty cool. Some of you have mentioned that you got into the band after Chinese Democracy, which is pleasantly surprising to me. Unfortunately, a lot of you clamoring for new music don't get that this band is firmly a legacy act at this point: they could release the greatest album of the last 30 years and the world will collectively shrug and say "it's not bad...now play Sweet Child O' Mine."

We, the diehard fans, want to hear Hard School and any other new tunes the band might have. Just understand that, when they pull it out, 85-90% of the crowd isn't going to give a flying fuck. Of those 85-90%, if the band can get maybe 10-20% of them to be interested enough to check out the new material, then that's a win. That's the reality here. So when you're bitching about how the band doesn't give a fuck about its fans, understand that you're likely incorrect: they give a fuck about the majority of the fans there to see the show. That's why they're playing the hits. That's why This I Love and Coma and Locomotive are expendable but You Could Be Mine and Nightrain are untouchable. They know their audience.

"Team Brazil are evil/incompetent." You don't know these people. I'll say it again: YOU DON'T KNOW THEM. At all! I don't give a shit what Beta posts on Instagram - you don't know her! She might be the root of all evil. She might be just a sweet woman who cares for Axl Rose. I don't know! And I don't care because I'll *never* know. And it doesn't impact me one bit. I don't have to have lunch with Beta or Fernando. Axl probably does and, after all this time, I think it's pretty safe to say that he likes them and that's really all that matters. He's their boss and, if he's satisfied with their work (the NITL is one of the most profitable tours of all time so I don't know if 'incompetent' is the word I'd use), then that's all that matters. But I get on Instagram, and on these forums, and I read people calling Beta and Fernando cunts and manipulators and all other types of vile shit. When in reality they're just two people trying to do a fucking job like anyone else and, again, it's only fucking rock n' roll. 

"This band has done nothing in the studio." Again - despite what anybody here tells you, nobody knows shit. No one is an insider. People can speculate to their heart's desire, but you don't know if Axl has been in a studio. You don't know what's been done. You don't know if they have a backlog of material or if they have nothing. We have some leaked sessions from twenty years ago. That's the extent of it. Anyone who tells you otherwise - like that guy who leaked the Village Sessions and just seems to spend all his time trolling Team Brazil on Instagram - is insane.

This band is no different than, say, the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Have we been emotionally invested in it for quite some time? Yes. Do some of the movies suck every once in a while? Sure. But that doesn't make Kevin Feige a lying thief who doesn't care about his fanbase. Everyone needs to just calm down.

This is not a phenomenon unique to GNR or music. Simply put if you put out a product for people to consume..you are going to get feedback. That’s the way it is and the way it is going to continue to be. Not sure why you feel the need to “clear it up” and tell people how they should be acting or thinking. If people like Axl that have put things out there and were fortunate enough to become very successful/rich don’t want to hear the response…they can simply log off and return to their gated mansions. Not that difficult