Axl's future singing capability

[Tom2112]

14 minutes ago, ©GnrPersia said:

It actually worked out up until Weiland got crazy. Those 2 VR albums weren't bad after all. + They were playing prominent festivals as well. But again each to their own.

I think the entire band (aside from Dave) were a mess, not just Weiland... he was just top of the heap. The two albums were good! And had they managed to keep it together and come back with a 3rd album they could have really grown things... for that reason I say it only sort of worked out. Unfortunately they were already losing momentum by Libertad, gone from Playing arenas to 10000 to smaller shows for 3-6000 people. 'tis a shame!

[Draguns]

2 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

There's only about 5 AFD songs they really "have to" play live, and Rocket Queen isn't one of them IMO. Slash has plenty of other opportunities for extended soloing throughout the show. Rocket Queen hasn't sounded consistently good since 2016.

I know Estranged is a fan favourite, but man they sound so bad on it nowadays... did you not hear the NITL Select? Same with YCBM, but that's one of their biggest hits so they kinda "have to" play that one too. There was a couple shows where they dropped Coma, and yea it's "Slash's baby" but it's been depressing to listen to since 2017 - and it's my favourite GNR song! If Axl can get his shit together and come back strong, then it would be a different conversation... but I still think they need to overhaul the setlist.

I respectfully disagree with you on Rocket Queen. It's definitely a staple. No question. Estranged and YCBM  are as well. Coma, I can see that being dropped eventually or alternated with something else. It's just too long.

I also disagree with you about Axl getting his "shit" together. They were on fire with the performance in Miami and Mexico earlier this year before the lockdown. My opinion is that the only really bad performance was Berlin in 2017. The rest of the performances were really good.   

[Draguns]

39 minutes ago, ©GnrPersia said:

It actually worked out up until Weiland got crazy. Those 2 VR albums weren't bad after all. + They were playing prominent festivals as well. But again each to their own.

I thought VR was good. Contraband was awesome! Libertad was ok. I saw them perform at PNC Arts Center in 2005. Great show! Crowd reminded me of the early 90s crowd of GNR. Just wild! With that being said, they tried to leave Axl behind and couldn't. Ditto with Axl trying to leave Slash and Duff behind and couldn't. Fact is these guys need each other. It just doesn't  work. The only exception is SMKC. SMKC works but on a much smaller scale. 

[GNRmello77]

None of the above, Axl needs to re learn his songs in a tat different aproach, work with a vocal coach like with acca dacca and idk keep a healthy schedule

[Gordon Comstock]

17 minutes ago, Draguns said:

I respectfully disagree with you on Rocket Queen. It's definitely a staple. No question. Estranged and YCBM  are as well. Coma, I can see that being dropped eventually or alternated with something else. It's just too long.

I also disagree with you about Axl getting his "shit" together. They were on fire with the performance in Miami and Mexico earlier this year before the lockdown. My opinion is that the only really bad performance was Berlin in 2017. The rest of the performances were really good.   

Yea, agree to disagree I guess. They've done tours before where RQ and Estranged weren't staples, and they've been played to death at this point, so if there's any songs they replace I wouldn't be sad to see those 2 go (among others). Coma was alternated with Locomotive a few times but neither song sounds very good these days IMO. I'd rather hear Pretty Tied Up and You Ain't The First, it would take up about the same amount of time, the band would sound better, and it'd be something fresh.

The 2020 shows weren't their worst by any means (that'd be Berlin 2018) but I really wouldn't say they were 'on fire'. They were, from what I remember, pretty much on par with a good 2018 show... but that's not a very high bar. Axl had some great moments but struggled for a lot of the show, even on songs like Nightrain which he used to nail even on an off night.

[ZoSoRose]

Get a vocal coach again, tune some songs down further, play shorter shows

 

 

[jamillos]

Let's not forget that no matter how shitty he sounded in the last 3 years (and in the Selects), there's still this - see below. And we're talking about the middle vocal level here, which theoretically shouldn't have rasp and should suck eggs but somehow doesn't. This is 2018, folks! The apparent truth is, he can nail anything in studio. I suspect it's a certain Brazilian team that inconspicuously prevents him from changing various arrangements in terms of live singing / song choices. 
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjDGvoL4woE
(Rock the Rock)

Edited December 5, 2020 by jamillos

[megaguns1982]

Axl can still do it... he just doesn’t want to for whatever reason.

he needs a decent vocal coach.

[Lies They Tell]

2 hours ago, jamillos said:

Let's not forget that no matter how shitty he sounded in the last 3 years (and in the Selects), there's still this - see below. And we're talking about the middle vocal level here, which theoretically shouldn't have rasp and should suck eggs but somehow doesn't. This is 2018, folks! The apparent truth is, he can nail anything in studio. I suspect it's a certain Brazilian team that inconspicuously prevents him from changing various arrangements in terms of live singing / song choices. 
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjDGvoL4woE
(Rock the Rock)

Yeah, I believe he could still sing with the Rock the Rock voice. Middle vocal level is a broad term. He's using his chest voice here. In other words he sings only with his lower middle voice which is still strong and he screams with his higher mid voice and he's always strong when he screams. This is the same voice he used on the Brian Johnsson AC/DC songs. In songs like these he never has to sing with his upper mid voice. He gets to scream when he's using the upper mid voice. GNR songs often require a lot of upper mid voice singing and that's the problem. This is much closer to his natural voice.

[JimiRose]

11 hours ago, Draguns said:

Do you realize that option was already done by forming Velvet Revolver???  Slash and Duff tried it already with Weiland. Things didn't work out. 

They had massive success, a long tour, 1 great album. Ok sure the second wasn't great but there were 3/4 good songs on there. slash and scott were both still getting fucked up and the lives shows had real energy. way more than GnR have had since 2014. They were on fire, then they imploded. nothing wrong with that

[JimiRose]

Why do people keep saying tune down? GnR already play in half step, next tuning would be D or c#.  Then we're talking Korn. GnR are a classic rock band, not a nu metal / hip hop alternative grunge band. You can't just tune everything massively down then tell axl to sing in the low register. You might as well go and see a cover band. 

The answer is - Get fit, look at jagger, look at tyler. they still song close to their peak voice and they're in fantastic shape. They have vocal coaches and they practise. Axl is the reason his voice is shite, not the band. You're trying to solve a problem by changing a completely different component of the band. It's simple, get fit, slim and full of energy. turn up to band rehearsals, hire a vocal coach and make the set a nice tight 2 hours. 

'Slash, duff - axl sounds like shit, so can you all change your playing and arrangements so he doesn't have to do any work to improve himself, and by doing that make the band sound like a korn/cypress hill hybrid?' 

[GNR_RNR]

I think the  number one thing that needs to be done, is that Axl has to have a top to bottom review of HOW he sings each song. 

From using weird vocally tiring techniques on parts that should just be sung lower and/or clean (Nightrain verses) to trying to sing parts of songs too high (Estranged, November Rain) he is just spreading his voice too thin. This even goes to the likes of Mr Brownstone, why does he sing this so high?

The voice from the breakdown in ISE should be used far more. A nice powerful vocal that retains the dynamics with screams. 

Go listen to Nightrain from the Ritz and to the Select from 2019. Some utterly baffling vocal technique choices for the verse parts, sounds very hard on his throat yet provides no benefit. 

In fact I'd actually say use the Ritz performance as a rough (very rough) template of how he should be approaching songs. 

On an optimistic note, all the "parts" of Axl's vocals are still there. He songs the 'pyrotechnic' parts well (screams etc); all he has to do is elevate his "coasting" voice that gets him between these sections. 

[GNR_RNR]

2 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

The answer is - Get fit, look at jagger, look at tyler. they still song close to their peak voice and they're in fantastic shape.

A fair assessment but Jagger doesn't do the same level of vocals as either Axl or Tyler.

Aerosmith put on a great show. And part of that is that they've created a great backing vocal 'illusion' that lifts Tyler's already great voice. Someone suggested more prominence of background vocals and that would maybe be a great idea for some songs. 

Once example I can think of is Paradise City. WHY is the NITL way of playing the song harder to sing (the intro in particular) that the recorded version!? 

[t-p-d-a]

I think the reason is laziness and a lack of personal responsibility in terms of body, fitness and voice.

 

 

[F*ck Fear]

He should retire the whole band.

[James Bond]

55 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

Why do people keep saying tune down? GnR already play in half step, next tuning would be D or c#.  Then we're talking Korn. GnR are a classic rock band, not a nu metal / hip hop alternative grunge band. You can't just tune everything massively down then tell axl to sing in the low register. You might as well go and see a cover band. 

The answer is - Get fit, look at jagger, look at tyler. they still song close to their peak voice and they're in fantastic shape. They have vocal coaches and they practise. Axl is the reason his voice is shite, not the band. You're trying to solve a problem by changing a completely different component of the band. It's simple, get fit, slim and full of energy. turn up to band rehearsals, hire a vocal coach and make the set a nice tight 2 hours. 

'Slash, duff - axl sounds like shit, so can you all change your playing and arrangements so he doesn't have to do any work to improve himself, and by doing that make the band sound like a korn/cypress hill hybrid?' 

I see your point as far as Axl needing to take his own responsibility, but Led Zep sounded pretty badass in D Tuning on their reunion gig.

[jamillos]

3 hours ago, Lies They Tell said:

Yeah, I believe he could still sing with the Rock the Rock voice. Middle vocal level is a broad term. He's using his chest voice here. In other words he sings only with his lower middle voice which is still strong and he screams with his higher mid voice and he's always strong when he screams. This is the same voice he used on the Brian Johnsson AC/DC songs. In songs like these he never has to sing with his upper mid voice. He gets to scream when he's using the upper mid voice. GNR songs often require a lot of upper mid voice singing and that's the problem. This is much closer to his natural voice.

You're right, but there still are rasped parts which he would normally do with mickey when live. 

[Lies They Tell]

31 minutes ago, jamillos said:

You're right, but there still are rasped parts which he would normally do with mickey when live. 

What part of Rock the Rock do you think he woud do with Mickey live?

[©GnrPersia]

3 hours ago, JimiRose said:

 The answer is - Get fit, look at jagger, look at tyler. they still song close to their peak voice and they're in fantastic shape. They have vocal coaches and they practise. 

And not to menton James Hetfield who is literally having the same stage presence as his 80s and 90s + Hits all those notes accurately. 57 year old James Hetfield, father of three, might sound weary these days but he does still pull off some of his most challenging songs.

No pain no gain. It requires a day to day effort and practice for these artists to stay at the top.

Godspeed Axl but certainly this cannot be achieved by Tacos and Burgers and hanging around uninspiring people like Beta and her son.

Edited December 5, 2020 by ©GnrPersia

[jamillos]

51 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

What part of Rock the Rock do you think he woud do with Mickey live?

Some of the lower parts, but I'm too lazy to pick them one by one, sorry. There'd definitely be some helium. 

[JimiRose]

2 hours ago, James Bond said:

I see your point as far as Axl needing to take his own responsibility, but Led Zep sounded pretty badass in D Tuning on their reunion gig.

I fear if GnR did that and Axl didn't change his approach, it would just be axl sounding shit, but in D instead 

[Draguns]

4 hours ago, JimiRose said:

They had massive success, a long tour, 1 great album. Ok sure the second wasn't great but there were 3/4 good songs on there. slash and scott were both still getting fucked up and the lives shows had real energy. way more than GnR have had since 2014. They were on fire, then they imploded. nothing wrong with that

The point I was making was that it was already done. Slash and Duff tried to find a new singer for VR, but couldn't. All three need each other. 

[©GnrPersia]

10 minutes ago, Draguns said:

The point I was making was that it was already done. Slash and Duff tried to find a new singer for VR, but couldn't. All three need each other. 

*YES, Duff & Slash need Axl in order to run the Cashgrab Inc.

No, they don't need Axl if it's about making amazing music. SMKC, Snakepit, Loaded & VR each have outstanding achievements in music without Axl.

 

* However to continue milking it's time to feed the cow with something.

Edited December 5, 2020 by ©GnrPersia

[Lies They Tell]

1 hour ago, jamillos said:

Some of the lower parts, but I'm too lazy to pick them one by one, sorry. There'd definitely be some helium. 

The only moments, when his lower mid range might sound like helium is when he's singing mostly in upper mid range and when it goes shortly to lower voice and then back to upper mid range again. He can't switch to his chest voice in moments like that. But in songs like Rock the Rock, that are mostly in lower mid range, his voice should be pretty strong, cause he can use his chest voice constantly.

[Swampfox]

14 hours ago, Draguns said:

I thought VR was good. Contraband was awesome! Libertad was ok. I saw them perform at PNC Arts Center in 2005. Great show! Crowd reminded me of the early 90s crowd of GNR. Just wild! With that being said, they tried to leave Axl behind and couldn't. Ditto with Axl trying to leave Slash and Duff behind and couldn't. Fact is these guys need each other. It just doesn't  work. The only exception is SMKC. SMKC works but on a much smaller scale. 

I was at that show too at PNC.   It was the first time I ever got to see Slash live and ended up being much more impressed with Scott's performance.  I'm so glad I got to see him before he passed.  He was a great frontman.