Finished songs with vocals query.

[rumandraisin]

I was reading the excellent Chinese whispers yesterday and Marco Beltrami said in late 2002 that he recorded strings for Thyme, seven, the general and leave me alone (me and my elvis), but none of them had vocals at that point. 

Which is interesting that over two years after the Me and My Elvis locker disc version it still did not have vocals. It made me think about how little work was really done in the studio by Axl after 2001. Of course the band would be there creating and still coming up with new stuff, for example in 2002 Three Dollar Pyramid became Better with Fortus adding the chorus. But Axl must have spent mere hours in the studio all in all when you look at how these tracks still did not have vocals. 

Then what happened between 2002 till 2006 is a mystery. It doesn't take 4 years to finish vocals. Or well, in Axls case evidently it did. 

I wonder when scrapped was started, probably finished vocally at Axls breakthrough early 2007 session. Along with the vocals for shacklers. 

[CAFC Nick]

36 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

I was reading the excellent Chinese whispers yesterday and Marco Beltrami said in late 2002 that he recorded strings for Thyme, seven, the general and leave me alone (me and my elvis), but none of them had vocals at that point. 

Wait, so Me and My Elvis --> Leave Me Alone --> Elvis Presley and the Monster of Soul? You sure on that?

[SoulMonster]

Beltrami could easily have received tracks without vocals even if tracks with vocals existed. 

[rumandraisin]

Yeah I swear Axl in the forum chat in 2008 said Elvis Presley and the Monster of Soul (formally leave me alone) didn't he? 

[rumandraisin]

We know Better was formed in 2002.

Scrapped was probably written in early 2002, the backing track and vocals worked on in 2006.

He mentioned recording vocals Christmas eve for Soul Monster, I'm guessing 2003. Deffinately wouldn't be 2002 as the band packed up after the tour. 

We really know very little about Thyme and Seven. Thyme is on the locker discs but seems to be just a melody at that point before being turned in to a full blown song. It's also part of PRL seemingly? 

Didn't brain say Seven was his favorite outtake. 

What do we know about The General? Not on the locker discs but Marco did strings in late 2002 so obviously must be from early 2002

[rumandraisin]

Also in 2006 Axl said they were working on 32 songs. 26 of which were almost complete. Anyone wanna attempt making a list of what these might be? 

[Gackt]

57 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

What do we know about The General?

Tracks like General and Seven came from a fragment of the band jamming at Brain's house.  There seemed to be two major songwriting groups for GNR after the initial batch of songs were put together for the first Chinese album; Buckethead, Pitman & Brain, and Finck & Stinson, with the tracks later going through Axl.  Hard to say where Dizzy and Fortus fit into the picture, it's too bad the Village discs didn't have any credits on them.

[Legendador]

Have you guys ever thought that those songs are so old and dated up to this point that they could actually be a flop, if ever released?

Those songs are 20 years old, when rock was something completely different.

I can't stop thinking that people want "The General" only for its name, people never heard the song and the only "witness" we have is Sebastian Bach saying it was the heaviest song he has ever heard in his life, which doesn't mean much since the dude is over excited by ANYTHING!

I just think a lot of people are creating and living a really fucked up fantasy over here and are going to be so disappointed in the future.

Last but not least, Axl cannot be blammed for that.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Legendador

[something.always]

1 hour ago, rumandraisin said:

What do we know about The General?

It f'n rocks.

[Sweersa]

Cuban Skies existed in 2003, a member of another forum said Axl played it for him in 2003 along with demos that made the album. He said it was about Cuban cigars. 

[rumandraisin]

I'm guessing early 2002 was the last crop of new backing tracks being recorded. Although we don't really know. Cuban Skies could be one of the many instrumentals. As could Seven. Although Scrapped has to be in there somewhere at some point. And the new Shacklers. 

[Dean]

"A Christmas Card of unadulterated venom..." the vocals for Soul Monster was done on a Christmas eve, I'd hazard a guess of either 2003 or 2004.

Fernando mentioned that since the release of Chinese, Axl has continued to write and record music. The only other source I have heard that confirms that to some degree is Sebastian Bach, who mentioned a killer song that Axl and Ashba wrote together.

[rumandraisin]

Bumble surely contradicts that when he said they never recorded anything post Cd

[JimiRose]

5 hours ago, Legendador said:

Have you guys ever thought that those songs are so old and dated up to this point that they could actually be a flop, if ever released?

Those songs are 20 years old, when rock was something completely different.

I can't stop thinking that people want "The General" only for its name, people never heard the song and the only "witness" we have is Sebastian Bach saying it was the heaviest song he has ever heard in his life, which doesn't mean much since the dude is over excited by ANYTHING!

I just think a lot of people are creating and living a really fucked up fantasy over here and are going to be so disappointed in the future.

Last but not least, Axl cannot be blammed for that.

What we've heard from the cellphone recording, the evader mix and what bach said about it makes me think this is the best song gnr never released. whilst a lot of songs on CHiDem were 5/6 mins and kinda progressive in style, they weren't evolving epics like estranged and NR coma etc. The general sounds like black Sabbath trying to write november rain and of all the songs, that's the one i crave

[Legendador]

56 minutes ago, JimiRose said:

What we've heard from the cellphone recording, the evader mix and what bach said about it makes me think this is the best song gnr never released. whilst a lot of songs on CHiDem were 5/6 mins and kinda progressive in style, they weren't evolving epics like estranged and NR coma etc. The general sounds like black Sabbath trying to write november rain and of all the songs, that's the one i crave

Sorry, brother! It does not! It's just part of a fantasy! A 12 year old fantasy!

[DownUnderScott]

17 hours ago, Legendador said:

Have you guys ever thought that those songs are so old and dated up to this point that they could actually be a flop, if ever released?

Those songs are 20 years old, when rock was something completely different.

I can't stop thinking that people want "The General" only for its name, people never heard the song and the only "witness" we have is Sebastian Bach saying it was the heaviest song he has ever heard in his life, which doesn't mean much since the dude is over excited by ANYTHING!

I just think a lot of people are creating and living a really fucked up fantasy over here and are going to be so disappointed in the future.

Last but not least, Axl cannot be blammed for that.

This. There are so many hopeful & delusional souls here, it’s not funny...

[CAFC Nick]

18 hours ago, Legendador said:

Have you guys ever thought that those songs are so old and dated up to this point that they could actually be a flop, if ever released?

Those songs are 20 years old, when rock was something completely different.

You're absolutely correct with this - however - I have been absolutely besotted with Atlas ever since it's release 18 months ago. So it depends on what your definition of a "flop" is -- is it commercial reception or fan reception? I would agree if you were talking commercially but I would definitely counter your point if it was in regards to fan reception as I think the reaction to the leaks proved the fans are happy with the unreleased material.

[Lies They Tell]

18 hours ago, Legendador said:

Have you guys ever thought that those songs are so old and dated up to this point that they could actually be a flop, if ever released?

Those songs are 20 years old, when rock was something completely different.

I can't stop thinking that people want "The General" only for its name, people never heard the song and the only "witness" we have is Sebastian Bach saying it was the heaviest song he has ever heard in his life, which doesn't mean much since the dude is over excited by ANYTHING!

I just think a lot of people are creating and living a really fucked up fantasy over here and are going to be so disappointed in the future.

Last but not least, Axl cannot be blammed for that.

When rock was something completely different? What do you mean? How exactly has rock music changed? There's been no evolution in rock music, because the whole rock genre has died out, at least when we're talking about mainstream music.

When was the last time we had a mainstream rock hit? There are no rock hits, so copying what other rock bands do currently is not a way to make a hit song. Current rock bands don't make hit music.

Of course bands like Tame Impala are pretty popular, but is that even rock music?

The way I see it, rock music is old school music, no matter how it's played. So I wouldn't worry too much about if the album sounds modern enough. People who listen to rock music enjoy old school music, because rock music is old school music.

[SoulMonster]

16 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

Bumble surely contradicts that when he said they never recorded anything post Cd

Bumble was surely talking about the band being together in the studio recording. 

[Legendador]

2 hours ago, CAFC Nick said:

You're absolutely correct with this - however - I have been absolutely besotted with Atlas ever since it's release 18 months ago. So it depends on what your definition of a "flop" is -- is it commercial reception or fan reception? I would agree if you were talking commercially but I would definitely counter your point if it was in regards to fan reception as I think the reaction to the leaks proved the fans are happy with the unreleased material.

Now let me be the devil's advocate here, as they say in my country: which fans? The MYGNR an other Forum hardcore fans? Or the general fans that buy Greatest Hits and go to concerts only to hear SCOM?

I don't mean to be a pain in the ass here, I loved the leaked songs, but this is us, hardcore fans, the general fans don't care! Did you notice that the overall music industry didn't even bother to talk about the new leaks like they did 15 years ago about ChiDem? Not even Blabbermouth! It was only within the foruns and like one footnote here or there.

I just think this band is just the greatest and that everything they touch turns gold! But I also think they missed decades of great opportunities to be bigger than Metallica, the Rolling Stones, maybe even the Beatles. (with or withou Slash!)

The worst of it all? There is no turning back!

Edited January 6, 2021 by Legendador

[Legendador]

2 hours ago, Lies They Tell said:

When rock was something completely different? What do you mean? How exactly has rock music changed? There's been no evolution in rock music, because the whole rock genre has died out, at least when we're talking about mainstream music.

When was the last time we had a mainstream rock hit? There are no rock hits, so copying what other rock bands do currently is not a way to make a hit song. Current rock bands don't make hit music.

Of course bands like Tame Impala are pretty popular, but is that even rock music?

The way I see it, rock music is old school music, no matter how it's played. So I wouldn't worry too much about if the album sounds modern enough. People who listen to rock music enjoy old school music, because rock music is old school music.

I don't know you're age, but I'm 41.

30 years ago there was GNR rulling the world with Metallica and then Grunge.

20 years ago there was Marilyn Manson (industrial), Limp Bizkit and all those other nu-metal / industrial stuff, which were considered new rock. That's my point of rock being completely different from today. And remember, this is the time when we heard OH MY GOD for the first time, which was completely Industrial back then and feels outdated today. Like The Matrix / Spawn soundtrack.

And 10 years ago there's no "rock" anymore.

Today, people don't even know what's "rock" anymore, and it became more of a lifestyle than a musical style!

Also, Tame Impala is considered Alternative, even today.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Legendador

[Lies They Tell]

6 hours ago, Legendador said:

I don't know you're age, but I'm 41.

30 years ago there was GNR rulling the world with Metallica and then Grunge.

20 years ago there was Marilyn Manson (industrial), Limp Bizkit and all those other nu-metal / industrial stuff, which were considered new rock. That's my point of rock being completely different from today. And remember, this is the time when we heard OH MY GOD for the first time, which was completely Industrial back then and feels outdated today. Like The Matrix / Spawn soundtrack.

And 10 years ago there's no "rock" anymore.

Today, people don't even know what's "rock" anymore, and it became more of a lifestyle than a musical style!

Also, Tame Impala is considered Alternative, even today.

Well everything you said here is kinda my point. Even if we consider Tame Impala rock music, it's still not 100% mainstream. There are no mainstream rock hits today. If GNR is going to release a new album it's gonna sound outdated no matter what, because rock music is outdated. So does it even matter if it's outdated in an industrial way or in a grunge way or in a classic rock way. As long as it's rock music, it's outdated.

Don't know if you've heard the leaked songs. Atlas Shrugged, Perhaps, Hard School etc... It's not exactly industrial music. It's sounds a lot like the rest of Chinese Democracy material that was released in 2008. Is it outdated? Sure, since rock music in general is outdated. Do we want GNR to become a pop or a rap group cause that's what hit music sounds like today? Of course not!

Nobody is expecting GNR to release huge mainstream hits today, but hopefully they'll release an album that will be as big as a rock album can be these days. Nobody really knows what a rock song should sound like today in order for it to be as big of a hit as it can be, because there are no rock hits today. Many bands are trying to sound like Led Zeppelin, but that isn't working. So who knows, maybe an industrial rock song would actually be the best move they could do right now. Maybe that would sound cool and fresh for the kids of today. Who knows! What ever music GNR is going to release, it's not gonna be mainstream music. So they should just focus on making music that they think is good music, instead of thinking too much about what is outdated and what is popular right now.

[Legendador]

44 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

Well everything you said here is kinda my point. Even if we consider Tame Impala rock music, it's still not 100% mainstream. There are no mainstream rock hits today. If GNR is going to release a new album it's gonna sound outdated no matter what, because rock music is outdated. So does it even matter if it's outdated in an industrial way or in a grunge way or in a classic rock way. As long as it's rock music, it's outdated.

Don't know if you've heard the leaked songs. Atlas Shrugged, Perhaps, Hard School etc... It's not exactly industrial music. It's sounds a lot like the rest of Chinese Democracy material that was released in 2008. Is it outdated? Sure, since rock music in general is outdated. Do we want GNR to become a pop or a rap group cause that's what hit music sounds like today? Of course not!

Nobody is expecting GNR to release huge mainstream hits today, but hopefully they'll release an album that will be as big as a rock album can be these days. Nobody really knows what a rock song should sound like today in order for it to be as big of a hit as it can be, because there are no rock hits today. Many bands are trying to sound like Led Zeppelin, but that isn't working. So who knows, maybe an industrial rock song would actually be the best move they could do right now. Maybe that would sound cool and fresh for the kids of today. Who knows! What ever music GNR is going to release, it's not gonna be mainstream music. So they should just focus on making music that they think is good music, instead of thinking too much about what is outdated and what is popular right now.

I heard the leaks, like them better than what was released on Chinese Democracy.

I got your point, I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but when I don't think Jungle sounds outdated. I think Better does, Scraped does, Rhiad does.

I think Royal Blood does not sound outdated for example, I think Ozzy does not sound outdated, it's not mainstream anymore, but not outdated.

You know, just different opinions...

[The Matinator]

I’m pretty sure we’ll never hear the majority of these songs barring another crazy leak like 2019. I mean I’m sure if there is ever an new album some of these will be included but it would probably be songs like Atlas & Hard School that fit Slash & Duffs playing style. We might get them on a deluxe Version of CD someday but we’re not gonna see that for some time, if ever.

[Lies They Tell]

3 hours ago, Legendador said:

I heard the leaks, like them better than what was released on Chinese Democracy.

I got your point, I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but when I don't think Jungle sounds outdated. I think Better does, Scraped does, Rhiad does.

I think Royal Blood does not sound outdated for example, I think Ozzy does not sound outdated, it's not mainstream anymore, but not outdated.

You know, just different opinions...

Sure, opinions are like assholes, as they say. I'm sure you know that Jungle, Ozzy and even Royal Blood sounds outdated in many peoples opinions.

But it's all subjective. I don't think there is such a thing as objectively outdated music. Sounds don't get old. There's just different kinds of trends. For example the synth pop music of the eighties were the epitome of outdated music for a long time, but right now those eighties synth sounds are very popular in alternative circles and you hear those influences even in mainstream music.

Industrial sounding music could easily make a comeback at some point and be the most relevant type of music out there. These trends go in circles, but a good song is a good song. That's why songs like Jungle, Smells Like Teen Spirit or even The Beautiful People will always be considered classics.