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The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0


downzy

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32 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

I understand that but all I'm trying to do is point them in the direction of some information. I can't really be bothered combing through Podesta's emails again because it depresses me to look at that stuff, am I supposed to find them again and then post them here?

And I am not going to read 20,000 pages of emails to find evidence for something that is highly implausible ;) The onus is on those claiming that professional emails from a politician contained references to pedophilia, to provide evidence for such claim. Stating that the emails contain some words, like "pizza" and "sauce", that may have been used by pedophilia previously as codes for child abuse, but are otherwise completely normal words, is not enough. If it was, then all Italians would be pedophiles.

Here's Rolling Stone summarizing #Pizzagate:

"Searching for evidence of illegality or anything sinister in Podesta’s hacked emails, wannabe online sleuths decided that mentions of “pizza” were code for child pornography. An anonymous 4chan user posted a list of other supposed code words to search for in Podesta’s emails — “pasta” meant little boy, “ice cream” meant male prostitute, “sauce” meant orgy. Soon, the hashtag #Pizzagate appeared and spread like wildfire on social media."

I don't think I need to read emails mentioning "pizza" and "sauce" and "pasta", I need to see people arguing why in this instance this wasn't simply talk about food, but actually used as code for pedophiliac activities. So in that sense it is pointless of me to read the emails, I need to read someone's argument for why something that appears to be innocuous everyday messages are in fact deeply terrible messages about child abuse.

 

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1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

How many times do I need to say that it's more than just the codewords? And I didn't tell you to read 20,000 of his emails maybe just skim through 20 and look at him and friend's private instagram posts.

What more than the code words are there? Can you link to relevant emails or do you think I will find evidence for child abuse from reading any 20 pages at WikiLeaks? I'd happily look at the Instagram posts, but where can I find them? Just point me in the right direction and I will read :) I have spent a minute googling to no avail.

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7 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

If you can't find them on Google I have no idea how to find them again. I'm not some conspiracy sleuth I'm just some guy who looked at this shit on Google and YouTube when it was available however many years ago. I haven't looked at them since the day they came out. There might still be footage of his emails on YouTube if they haven't already been removed.

Honestly I regret saying anything just like I regret talking about the Vatican. Nobody cares and realistically if they do there's nothing that will be done anyway so you may as well just act like it's implausible or whatever and not bother. It's all a big nothing.

I definitely think that if there was evidence for Podesta, or anyone else, being a pedophile, something would be done about it, e.g. he'd face criminal charges. The fact that this hasn't happened suggests to me no such evidence has been found, whereas others may think it is evidence for corruption at a grand scale. Which is why, of course, I am curious to see this evidence, but not so curious I am willing to spend a lot of my time digging it up. 

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4 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

I can understand not wanting to bother, I can't be bothered digging it up and even if I did and you see for yourself, then what? I'm pretty sure you'd explain it away no matter what I mean you think a cabal, something as ordinary as dirt is some implausible dream. Even after the Epstein situation. There's no point really it's a waste of energy.

What was the point of you posting it in the first place, you are in a full fledged retreat now.

The pizzagate conspiracy and Epstein are two different things. With Epstein, we had Vicky Ward reporting that Epstein was connected to intelligence, with a quote regarding the prosecutor in the 2007 Epstein case.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epsteins-sick-story-played-out-for-years-in-plain-sight

Quote

Epstein’s name, I was told, had been raised by the Trump transition team when Alexander Acosta, the former U.S. attorney in Miami who’d infamously cut Epstein a non-prosecution plea deal back in 2007, was being interviewed for the job of labor secretary. The plea deal put a hard stop to a separate federal investigation of alleged sex crimes with minors and trafficking.

“Is the Epstein case going to cause a problem [for confirmation hearings]?” Acosta had been asked. Acosta had explained, breezily, apparently, that back in the day he’d had just one meeting on the Epstein case. He’d cut the non-prosecution deal with one of Epstein’s attorneys because he had “been told” to back off, that Epstein was above his pay grade. “I was told Epstein ‘belonged to intelligence’ and to leave it alone,” he told his interviewers in the Trump transition,

 

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6 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

How many times do I need to say that it's more than just the codewords? And I didn't tell you to read 20,000 of his emails maybe just skim through 20 and look at him and his friend's private social media posts.

Honestly there's no point of bothering to bring up this sort of thing. Society is doomed. The answer is blowing in the wind.

But you’re seeing what you want to see. Absent hard proof that pizza means child porn (and there is none), it’s not unreasonable for others not to ascribe to your perspective. 

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35 minutes ago, arnold layne said:

Remember when the Democrats won Georgia they guaranteed 2k stimulus checks? I remember. 

24 days since Biden was inaugurated. 

And Republicans have held the chair in Senate committees up until a week ago, just prior to the impeachment hearings.

How can Democrats enact their agenda if McConnell refused to relinquish control of the Senate only the business day before the impeachment hearings?  Most cabinet positions are still unfilled because Republican chairs refused to hold confirmation hearings. 

Or do these details not matter to you?  Just fun to rail against Democrats on the internet because it feels good?

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Just now, downzy said:

And Republicans have held the chair in Senate committees up until a week ago, just prior to the impeachment hearings.

How can Democrats enact their agenda if McConnell refused to relinquish control of the Senate only the business day before the impeachment hearings?  Most cabinet positions are still unfilled because Republican chairs refused to hold confirmation hearings. 

Or do these details not matter to you?  Just fun to rail against Democrats on the internet because it feels good?

How would this be an issue? Not trying to be a dick, but I'm genuinely curious what your sources are on this.

It was under my understanding that the democrats have control of both the house and senate by majority, so under what authority does McConnell have? 

He is in the minority. 

Also not trying to be a condescending dick again, but please tell me when we can expect 2k stimulus payments?

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8 minutes ago, arnold layne said:

How would this be an issue? Not trying to be a dick, but I'm genuinely curious what your sources are on this.

It was under my understanding that the democrats have control of both the house and senate by majority, so under what authority does McConnell have? 

He is in the minority. 

Also not trying to be a condescending dick again, but please tell me when we can expect 2k stimulus payments?

Didn’t you say the other day that your joint income was > $150k?

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1 hour ago, arnold layne said:

How would this be an issue? Not trying to be a dick, but I'm genuinely curious what your sources are on this.

With respect to Republicans holding the Senate until only a week ago:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/03/politics/senate-power-sharing-agreement-reached/index.htm

As for progress on the bills to send out financial assistance, the House has already passed portions of what will become the House bill through the various commitees:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/12/covid-stimulus-update-house-advances-checks-unemployment-boost.html

The senate passed a resolution that allowed it to push through their bill through budget reconciliation (since there are not 10 Republicans who will support more financial aid) just prior to the impeachment hearings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/04/senate-vote-a-rama-biden-economic-relief-stimulus/

It generally takes months for proposed legislation to become law.

The 2009 stimulus package wasn't passed until February 17th, which was considered record breaking at the time when Democrats actually controlled both chambers of Congress.  Contrast that to Democratic control now: didn’t take the Senate until a week ago, zero cooperation from Republicans, and an impeachment trial holding things up.   

Comparatively, Republicans ran in 2016 on cutting individual and corporate taxes.  It took them almost a year to pass that bill.

I don't mean to be a dick, but your post is representative of how little most Americans pay attention to what's going on or how uninformed they are with respect to how legislative process works.  This failure leads to increasing cynicism and partly explains how Donald Trump became President.

The American system of governance was designed to be slow.  It was a response to the system America was attempting to overthrow: monarchical rule where the whims of one person could dictate policy.  The problem has become that Americans aren't aware of this fact and have grown increasingly cynical that government can fix problems due to the unresponsive nature of the system.  Compounding the problem is the two party-system that uses obstructionism and political tricks to game the system and slow or shut things down further.  

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34 minutes ago, downzy said:

With respect to Republicans holding the Senate until only a week ago:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/03/politics/senate-power-sharing-agreement-reached/index.htm

As for progress on the bills to send out financial assistance, the House has already passed portions of what will become the House bill through the various commitees:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/12/covid-stimulus-update-house-advances-checks-unemployment-boost.html

The senate passed a resolution that allowed it to push through their bill through budget reconciliation (since there are not 10 Republicans who will support more financial aid) just prior to the impeachment hearings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/04/senate-vote-a-rama-biden-economic-relief-stimulus/

It generally takes months for proposed legislation to become law.

The 2009 stimulus package wasn't passed until February 17th, which was considered record breaking at the time when Democrats actually controlled both chambers of Congress.  Contrast that to Democratic control now: didn’t take the Senate until a week ago, zero cooperation from Republicans, and an impeachment trial holding things up.   

Comparatively, Republicans ran in 2016 on cutting individual and corporate taxes.  It took them almost a year to pass that bill.

I don't mean to be a dick, but your post is representative of how little most Americans pay attention to what's going on or how uninformed they are with respect to how legislative process works.  This failure leads to increasing cynicism and partly explains how Donald Trump became President.

The American system of governance was designed to be slow.  It was a response to the system America was attempting to overthrow: monarchical rule where the whims of one person could dictate policy.  The problem has become that Americans aren't aware of this fact and have grown increasingly cynical that government can fix problems due to the unresponsive nature of the system.  Compounding the problem is the two party-system that uses obstructionism and political tricks to game the system and slow or shut things down further.  

 

Thanks for your response. 

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Wow, how subtle...

”Regardless of the merits of the case, may I remind everyone that many of you will end up with serious primary challenges if you vote to convict.”

In a normal world threatening the jury would result in a mistrial and further criminal prosecution. 

But we live in a world where Donald Trump became the most important person in the most powerful country. 

What a travesty...

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Leak of call between Trump and McCarthy during the attack on the Capitol.

Reveals Trump couldn’t give a fuck about the riot or the safety of those within in the building...

Dems need to subpoena both McCarthy and Trump as witnesses. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/12/politics/trump-mccarthy-shouting-match-details/index.html

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1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

The point was the points I made with a rather humble sentiment of hey I'm not so sure about that and take a look at this. But none of you can be bothered finding and reading Podesta's emails(which are factually real so you could judge them for yourselves)

Again, reading 20,000 pages seems a bit excessive. But fortunately, WikiLeaks allows me to search through the Podesta emails. So I searched for "pizza" and here is the first hit I got:

Quote

Hope all is well. Ashok and I are back from the CGI, Middle East and Africa event, held in Marrakech, Morroco. If we are still on for dinner on Saturday, June 06 Possible menu _ Indian: suggestions welcome. 1. Mixed grill of Tandoori chicken, lamb, and Lahori fish: Pizza oven. Garnished with ribbon onions in lemon mint chutney. 2. Garlic Naan ( freshly baked, pizza oven @ 550 degrees) 3. Greek Yoghurt with shredded cucumber and fresh corriander garnish. 4. Basmati rice Pilaff with fresh green peas, Saffron and roasted pine nuts garnish. 5. A lentil dish. Dessert: A block of Vanilla Ice cream heaped with mixed seasonal berries and Roasted Almond praline spikes, drizzled with Amaretto. or with fresh sweet mango. *if preferred, we can shop together earlier for meats/fish. etc. Best Amrita

I dunno. Amrita could be a pedophile, sure, but I find it more likely she is just talking about what to serve at a dinner party.

Quote

Today's Electioneering Communication Report is attached. * Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund* $40,000.00 for radio ad buy – Couple (Abar Hutton Media) on 9/25 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $555.10 for Prius unwrap (New Mexico Fleet Design) on 9/16 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $33.07 for printer ink (Office Depot) on 9/19 in opposition to Steve Pearce (CO-04) $27.84 for pizza for canvassers (Pizza Hut) on 9/16 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $29.00 for pizza for canvassers (Pizza Hut) on 9/18 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $828.32 for phone and internet (QWEST) on 9/16 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $52.07 for mileage (Barbara Swietkowski) on 9/19 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $53.25 for drill (Target) on 9/17 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $32.03 for water (Target) on 9/20 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $3,731.24 for radio ad production (Wild Bunch Media) on 9/25 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $18.72 for mileage (Barbara Swietkowski) on 9/17 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $14.63 for mileage (Ed Yoon) on 9/20 in opposition to Marilyn Musgrave (CO-04) $640.00 for salary (Sisy Garcia) on 9/30 in opposition to Steve Pearce (NM Senate) $560.00 for salary (David Kirk) on 9/30 in opposition to Steve Pearce (NM Senate) $800.00 for salary (Jesse Lifton) on 9/30 in opposition to Steve Pearce (NM Senate) $57.23 for salary (William Lutz) on 9/30 in opposition to Steve Pearce (NM Senate) $4,100.00 for walk card (MSHC Partners) on 9/29 in opposition to Steve Pearce (NM Senate) $640.00 for salary (Miriam Tohill) on 9/30 in opposition to Steve Pearce (NM Senate) $1,280.00 for salary (Ed Yoon) on 9/30 in opposition to Steve Pearce (NM Senate)

Again, this could be about pedophilic activities, but more likely this a detailed financial report over some campaign activity.

Quote

Wanted to flag a dinner I'm doing at my house tomorrow for Hillary. Doing a fundraiser at my house with my brother John on October 6 at my house, John and I are cooking along with guest chefs James Alefantis of Comet Ping Pong Pizza and Buck's Camping and Fishing, Amy Brandwein of Centrolina and Massimo Fabbri of Ristorante Posto. Would love if you could go online and make your contribution here: https://www.hillaryclinton.com/donate/?raiser=49983. Hope you can make it. Look forward to an exciting year. Best, Tony Tony Podesta

This one is interesting, though. It is from Tony Podesta to podesta@podesta.com. And it mentions Comet Ping Pong Pizza (!) that got raided by the loon with the AK47 who looked for a secret basement (the building had no basement) were kids were supposedly being kept. But looking at the email, I think it is more likely that this is another innocent email about campaigning than about child abuse. Don't you think?

I could go on for some time (the Podesta emails have 149 hits for "pizza" and probably many more when you search for "sauce", "spaghetti", "mozzarela", "tiramisu," "panini", "grappa" etc), but I think it is a bit of waste of time by now. I am sure that the remaining 146 references to pizza will also appear to be normal correspondence with no suggestion of clandestine codes for child abuse. 

What I think is the case, though, is that people already sure that the Democratic party hides a cabal of satanic child abusers, are more likely to find "evidence" for that when reading emails. They might read the three emails above and go, "don't you see!!!". While I come from the perspective of finding this theory ludicrous to begin with, and hence I am more likely to take the emails at face value.

EDIT: Interestingly, the above is the only mention I can find of "Ping Pong Pizza" in the emails, so that little mention of the restaurant pretty much ruined the lives of a restaurant owner and people working there, as well as the loon who is now in prison for having raided the place under the belief he was saving children.

Edited by SoulMonster
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5 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Try searching for "spirit cooking" and "hot tub" and if their private instagram/social media posts are still up search "murder" and "kill room" and "date" if nothing dodgy comes up then his emails have been tampered with. Which won't mean anything to you you'll just think I don't know what I'm talking about but I'll know not to trust Wikileaks.

There is an email with "spirit cooking":

Quote

From: Marina Abramovic <marinaxabramovic@gmail.com<mailto:marinaxabramovic@gmail.com>> Date: June 28, 2015 at 2:35:08 AM GMT+2 To: Tony Podesta <podesta@podesta.com<mailto:podesta@podesta.com>> Subject: Dinner Dear Tony, I am so looking forward to the Spirit Cooking dinner at my place. Do you think you will be able to let me know if your brother is joining? All my love, Marina

The email is from Marine Abramovic, an artist previously having created a painting titled "Spirit Cooking", so she seems to reference the title of the painting in her dinner. For some reason, some people interpret this as indicating Abramovic and the recipient of the email, John Podesta, to be stanists or something. It has nothing to do with child abuse, though.

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11 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Try searching for "spirit cooking" and "hot tub"

There are eight hits for "hot tub". Before I spend any time looking into them, what do you think that term means? I would sort of assume they are simply talking about hot tubs but I suppose that term has some sinister meaning too? Why would they not be talking about, you know, hot tubs?

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45 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Spirit Cooking is a satanic ritual. If you want to describe smearing feces and pig's blood on the wall to write instructions to cut fingers and suck the blood eat the pain as simply art then that's just an example of how your mind is already made up and you just want to be dismissive. They're talking about a Spirit Cooking dinner and you think that means what they're going to have mac'n'cheese and look at her 'art'?

Why not?  Or at the very least, discuss it.

Sorry, but this whole thing is as nuts as Qanon. It’s reading into things that are not there. The same could be done with your posts on this forum if someone were so inclined. Absent hard proof other than arbitrary and capricious readings of certain words to fit your prescribed narrative, few are going to accept your interpretation. 

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