The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0

[downzy]

On 4/25/2021 at 4:39 PM, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I remember seeing a study a couple years ago showing that transgender people leaned libertarian. Not surprising to see Jenner run as a Republican. I think this will become a trend, transgender Republicans

Just like Log Cabin Republicans. 

I honestly don't think objectively trans or gay people lean either left or right in their economic politics.  But most will vote left (or centre-left) since that's the side that doesn't vilify them in order to scare or gin up their base.  

[downzy]

It amazes me how muted Republican and conservative response has been to Biden's speech and policy proposals.

Twelve years ago Obama proposed expanding healthcare by giving people options in the private market.  And people lost their fucking minds.

Biden has positioned himself as far more liberal and progressive than Obama ever came close to.  And no mass demonstrations against run-away government overreach.

It couldn't have anything to do with Biden's skin complication, could it?  

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

6 hours ago, downzy said:

It amazes me how muted Republican and conservative response has been to Biden's speech and policy proposals.

Twelve years ago Obama proposed expanding healthcare by giving people options in the private market.  And people lost their fucking minds.

Biden has positioned himself as far more liberal and progressive than Obama ever came close to.  And no mass demonstrations against run-away government overreach.

It couldn't have anything to do with Biden's skin complication, could it?  

I don't know if I speak for a lot of people but I've been burned so many times I'm not paying attention nearly as much as I used to. I tend to find plenty to criticize of both of these parties for so I'm not sure how representative I am.

[downzy]

7 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I don't know if I speak for a lot of people but I've been burned so many times I'm not paying attention nearly as much as I used to. I tend to find plenty to criticize of both of these parties for so I'm not sure how representative I am.

I think Trump has reset a lot of things, for sure. The President after Trump was always going to be given a bigger laneway since he was following an utter clusterfuck.

But there’s no debate that Biden has been way more progressive as President than Obama ever was. And yet we see a fraction of the amount of pushback against his agenda from the general public than we did with Obama.  If Obama had given the same speech Biden just did there would be protests for months about the radical socialist plan being imposed by the dictator president.  There isn’t even much of a “we can’t afford it” rebuttal since Republicans have lost all standing to speak about debt.

One factor to consider is the pandemic. The old Republican-conservative mantra is that government should be smaller and get out of the way.  The pandemic has reminded most sane individuals how utterly empty and stupid that message is when dealing with large societal problems. 

[downzy]

Prior to this morning I wasn’t sure who is more fucked: Gaetz or Rudy...

But after the report that came out this morning, definitely Gaetz...

And now it looks like Stone might be going down as well...

[Ace Nova]

On 4/5/2021 at 10:51 PM, downzy said:

Sorry, but what?

I've never heard of such laws.  Are you telling me that it is illegal for someone to walk around in public without having any form or ID on them?  I know it's generally required to have a drivers license on you whenever you drive, but there's no such law that I'm aware of that requires a person possess on them at all times while out in public a state-sanctioned form of identification.

I generally don't disagree on principle with the notion that some form of identification is needed to vote.  We have personal ID requirements here in Canada.  My issue here is why should this be a party concern?  Moreover, if the current system hasn't demonstrated any real or considerable instances of voter fraud, why change it?  Again, this seems to be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.  Until someone can demonstrate that voter ID laws reduce in any meaningful way levels of election fraud, I don't really see the point in forcing the issue if the government isn't also going to commit to making it happen.  My issue involves the motive for it.  Georgian Republicans say it's to ensure the system is secure and safe from fraud.  But we both know that's not why they're doing it.  If they were really concerned about election security, send out voter ID cards anytime people register to vote.  But that's not what they're doing.  

As far as being required to carry ID, not sure why I thought it was a requirement.  I likely conflated "requiring to identify" yourself laws with local town/school ordinances that used to require us to carry ID's while I was at Penn State and the fact that it's a requirement in Italy...where I spent every summer growing up.  I never thought much of it since then so I must have assumed it was the same everywhere.  Learn something new everyday.  

I tend to agree that giving every citizen the opportunity to get an official ID should not be a political issue.  If anything, it should be a Bi-Partisan issue and ideally, would be handled at the Federal level.  This is one of the reasons I am non-partisan.  Giving citizens the opportunity to obtain official ID's for themselves shouldn't be an issue in the year 2021, in one of the wealthiest and most advanced nations of the world.  And yet, here we are discussing how simple of a solution it is...but because of partisan politics, it has yet to be done and likely won't be done in the near future.  Smh.

 

[Padme]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:41 PM, downzy said:

Caitlyn Jenner running for governor of California.

Matthew McConaughey considering running for governor of Texas.

You would think people would have learned the last time a celebrity thought it would be a good idea to become a politician overnight.  Someone needs to explain to me how either of these two are remotely qualified to run the two biggest states in America.  

What a fucking gong show. 

I don't know what make about McConaughy. I mean, is he really serious? Anyway, good luck with that in a place like Texas 

In the case of Jenner, I think it's called... just being an attention whore 

[downzy]

 

[downzy]

Caitlyn Jenner says she decided to run for Governor of California after hearing from her rich, private-jet flying friends that they’re tired of seeing poor people.

Sounds like a winning message. 

[marlingrl03]

54 minutes ago, downzy said:

Caitlyn Jenner says she decided to run for Governor of California after hearing from her rich, private-jet flying friends that they’re tired of seeing poor people.

Sounds like a winning message. 

Yeah I saw some of those interview clips w/Hannity on Twitter. She is a fuckin joke.

[downzy]

 

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

49 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

My impression is the republican party basically has no other option than Trump for 2024. Do you agree or are there other potential avenues they could take?

If I was Trump I'd run with Ivanka. Possibly have her run for president and Trump as VP.

They're trying to rally around Desantis. But I think he's going to be too boring and wonky for the Trump crowd, and not polished enough for the McConnell-Ryan crowd, basically the problem the party will have with any candidate.

[Padme]

3 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

Biden won't be running in 2024 so it'll be who for the democrats? Kamala and someone with even less presence? I feel like Trump/Ivanka would win.

Biden said he is planning to run in 2024. He said that not too long ago in a press conference

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/25/us/biden-reelection-2024.html

[downzy]

20 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

My impression is the republican party basically has no other option than Trump for 2024. Do you agree or are there other potential avenues they could take?

If I was Trump I'd run with Ivanka. Possibly have her run for president and Trump as VP.

I don't think Trump will run (or win if he does).  The problem is unless it's one of his kids, I don't think he can bring himself to endorse anyone else.  And I don't see what Ivanka brings to the table at this point.  Her brand has already been tarnished.  The white supremacists don't like her because she's married to a Jew.  Suburban women aren't a fan because her last name is Trump and she's been one of the worst enablers of her father.  She would only appeal to the people already voting for Trump.   

[downzy]

14 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

They're trying to rally around Desantis. But I think he's going to be too boring and wonky for the Trump crowd, and not polished enough for the McConnell-Ryan crowd, basically the problem the party will have with any candidate.

I thought it was going to be Nikki Hailey but you're right, as of now it looks like Desantis's nomination to lose (again, if Trump allows it).

He's a more effective politician than Trump, but he doesn't have the same kind of nasty asshole charisma that endears so many to Trump.  

If the economy is humming in 2024 I don't see anyone taking on Biden.  And Biden will run again if his health allows it.  Democrats need to get going on their agenda before they lose the House in 2022 thanks to redistricting and the historical trend of the in-power party getting crushed during the mid-terms. 

If they can get an infrastructure bill done and do something (even minor) on immigration they should keep the losses in 2022 to a minimum and set Biden up well to run against a do nothing and insane Republican party and candidate in 2024.

I think Republicans are really going to regret forcing people like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger from the party.  They're essentially doubling down on the 25 percent of the country that will vote for them regardless and giving the middle finger to everyone else.  There will be litmus test for the 2024 that requires any nominee to back Trump's insanity that the 2020 election was stolen from him.  So long as Biden stays healthy and they can keep him on message, I don't see how any Republican wins in 2024.  Couple with the fact that southern states (Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina) are trending more in Democrats favour due to demographic changes.  I know Republicans like to think an exodus out of California and population increases in Texas and other Southern states is good news for them.  Maybe in the short term, but I think this will help accelerate in the medium and long term the partisan changes of Souther states.  

[Padme]

2 hours ago, downzy said:

I don't think Trump will win.  The problem is unless it's one of his kids, I don't think he can bring himself to endorse anyone else.  And I don't see what Ivanka brings to the table at this point.  Her brand has already been tarnished.  The white supremacists don't like her because she's married to a Jew.  Suburban women aren't a fan because her last name is Trump and she's been one of the worst enablers of her father.  She would only appeal to the people already voting for Trump.   

I'm afraid he could win. There is a great deal of voting restrictions and Gerrymandering everywhere. All this crap was done in order to give Republicans and Trump a good chance to win  next year and in 2024 

[downzy]

1 hour ago, Padme said:

I'm afraid he could win. There is a great deal of voting restrictions and Gerrymandering everywhere. All this crap was done in order to give Republicans and Trump a good chance to win  next year and in 2024 

Gerrymandering doesn't directly affect Presidential elections.  It would only come into play if the election came down to a tie (269-269) and it was left up to the House to decide.  

State-wide elections are much harder to manipulate.  I do agree that some of these restrictions will affect turn-out in traditional Democratic heavy districts.  But with Republicans losing the suburbs who are usually not affected by these kinds of restrictions, I'm not so sure that they'll have the kind of effect that Republicans are hoping they'll have (or Democrats will fear). 

The irony with some of these restrictions Republicans are putting into place is that they may very well backfire and hurt their own voters.  I think I read somewhere that many Republican operatives who are familiar with Florida politics think the recent voting laws put into place may actually hurt Republicans in 2024.  

So we'll have to see.  

I also think it's funny how people are so sure Biden's health would be an issue in 2024.  Last time I check Biden isn't 80 pounds over weight and stresses out about every stupid thing.  Biden only has a two or three years on Trump.  If I were a betting man I'd put money on Trump kicking the bucket before Biden.  

[downzy]

Gaetz (and Cruz) should do themselves a favour and stay off Twitter:

 

 

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Even with Trump out the Republican party are still acting like he's President. I doubt both parties will ever see eye to eye and again Americans suffer for it.

I never saw so many stupid congressmen and women in my life.

[downzy]

5 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

I never saw so many stupid congressmen and women in my life.

Like this one:

Imagine having so little self-awareness and striking ability to self-own that you would use one of the most mocked symbols of a failed presidency to dance on the grave a fellow member of your own party.

The stupidity that Trump infected the party with seems to have only become worse since leaving the White House.

 

[Padme]

44 minutes ago, downzy said:

The stupidity that Trump infected the party with seems to have only become worse since leaving the White House

The stupidity was brought to the party by the likes of Sarah Palin and Fox News. Trump just made it even worst. And yet Republicans will still grab 70 million votes or something like it 

[-W.A.R-]

Politicians calling for peace as if the US' full-throated support behind the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was ever peace.

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

9 hours ago, -W.A.R- said:

Politicians calling for peace as if the US' full-throated support behind the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was ever peace.

American politicians love to start the story in the middle, never at the beginning. They'll talk endlessly about Palestinian Rockets, but never about what precipitated the attack.

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

This is actually a sober thought about Cheney. Some people may see her as the 'moderate' that liberals can love. But in reality, she's a warhawk just like her father, and is calling for a new Cold War. Except this time the political constituency for such a thing isn't there, because the people who loved that stuff are all old or dead. Not that Trump wasn't actually a hawk himself, but he was at least smart enough to pretend he wasn't at times with his rhetoric.

 

[downzy]

8 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

This is actually a sober thought about Cheney. Some people may see her as the 'moderate' that liberals can love. But in reality, she's a warhawk just like her father, and is calling for a new Cold War. Except this time the political constituency for such a thing isn't there, because the people who loved that stuff are all old or dead. Not that Trump wasn't actually a hawk himself, but he was at least smart enough to pretend he wasn't at times with his rhetoric.

 

Yeah, I agree that beyond her “principled”(cough, opportunistic) stance against Trump there is absolutely nothing to like or admire about her or her politics. She’s making a gamble that four to eight years from now Trumpism will be long dead and she will be proven correct for her early position.  

It’s also interesting to think that the woman about to replace Cheney in Republican House leadership (New York rep who’s name escapes me) is much more moderate. On the one hand you would wish every other Republican could be honest about how terrible Trump is and was. But on the other, if Republicans are switching out reps who support forever wars and welfare slashing ideologues, perhaps it’s not the worst trade in the world. 

That said, it is sad that Republicans are throwing Cheney out because on this one issue she is speaking the truth while all the rest cower before a derranged asshole and his simple-minded minions.