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The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0


downzy

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On 8/9/2021 at 4:37 PM, downzy said:

Poor Rudy.

Suspended from practicing law, on the brink of bankruptcy, a laughing stock, the biggest target in Borat 2, and now hung out to dry by the man he worked so hard for.

His kids must be proud. 

Considering the fact that he had a half decent reputation among most Americans (prior) to his association with Trump....yeah, I would consider it a pretty big "fall from grace". 

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6 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

How do you feel about Cuomo resigning? 

Hey you're baaaack!!! :headbang:

How I feel about Cuomo?  Too bad the truth didn't come a lot earlier. It seems he was some kind of Jekyll and Hyde. Can he still look at his daughters and his sisters in the eyes? :no:

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Not the US government is sending in 3000 troops to help Afganastan fight against the Taliban who have almost taken over every city except two there.

The US government is saying the Afgan troops have no trust in their government so they are not fighting back to keep their country. 

Really? I don't believe this at all. 

I can't believe that after 20 years in that country fighting it took the Taliban about 2 weeks to get all those cities back again. What the fuck was it all for? You know everyone knew what would happen once the US and it's allies left. It's Vietnam all over again.

I want our troops home safe, but it is costing innocent lives again. We have to do better than this. I don't have the answer but it seems to me these Taliban have better brains and weapons to take over a country in a few weeks. What will stop them from doing whatever the hell they want with those people including the government and the army? What a shame and a mess!

14 hours ago, Padme said:

Hey you're baaaack!!! :headbang:

How I feel about Cuomo?  Too bad the truth didn't come a lot earlier. It seems he was some kind of Jekyll and Hyde. Can he still look at his daughters and his sisters in the eyes? :no:

Another man who hasn't realized it's not 1950 anymore. I understand you were born in another decade where men did whatever they hell they wanted to do, but you live in this time now and you should have changed your nasty ways. He deserves what he gets! 

And I'm Italian decent and my family members didn't go around touching strangers faces. That's not an excuse to touch anyone. He knew what he was doing and if he's that much of a stupid moron, you get what you get!

His mother should be ashamed. 

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22 hours ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

I want our troops home safe

 We can't have it both ways. I guess it is damn if you do, damn if you don't

Right now with the pamdemic, the U.S. can't afford to spend billions going to war in Afghanistan, Syria or elsewhere. There are other priorities as well, like infrastructure or climate change. 

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The US dropped over $80 billion to build up Afghan forces.  What a waste.

The utter collapse of Afghan forces in such a short period of time underscores why staying was useless. If $80 billion couldn’t solve the problem, nothing would at this point. 

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6 hours ago, downzy said:

The US dropped over $80 billion to build up Afghan forces.  What a waste.

The utter collapse of Afghan forces in such a short period of time underscores why staying was useless. If $80 billion couldn’t solve the problem, nothing would at this point. 

 I have a few questions. Those Afghan forces are made of what exactly? I mean militia? Afghan opposition members? Mercenaries? I have no idea. They look very amature.  What kind of traning they got by the U.S. forces? Why the Taliban wasn't under better surveillance by the Afghan government, C.I.A. or somebody? Where the Taliban got their weapons, planning, strategy and everything? 

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1 hour ago, downzy said:

Afghan president has fled. Kabul is now surrounded. US embassy in the process of being shuttered and abandoned. 

Just read this today. What the hell? All this was about trying to make a good government for the Afghan people and both the President and VP have fled the country? All those lives lost for what?

Now everyone is saying this was another Vietnam and this country could never sustain a democratic government, so why exactly did the US and it's allies spend over 20 years there?

The Dallas morning paper had pictures of the women and children trying to flee the country. My heart breaks for these people because it seems they have suffered forever. I've seen pictures of the Taliban marching into the cities. What I want to know is who's taking these pictures and why can't someone kick their ass before they march in?

And I want to know too how the US trained the Afghan solderiers when it seems they don't have the capacity to stop the Taliban from doing whatever the hell they want and how did they get all the fire power?

Governments play politics and it's the regular people who suffer. How can you in all good faith leave all those people behind when you know they can't help themselves? And why are the other Muslim countries standing by while this happens?

What a horrible world we live in!  And I can only imagine the US soldiers and the allied forces leaving and how they must feel?

 

12 hours ago, downzy said:

The US dropped over $80 billion to build up Afghan forces.  What a waste.

The utter collapse of Afghan forces in such a short period of time underscores why staying was useless. If $80 billion couldn’t solve the problem, nothing would at this point. 

I agree. guess money can't buy everything and now the Afghan people are finding out the hard way.  

But I'm sure other people got tons of money off this war and the deaths of many too.

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1 hour ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

What a horrible world we live in!  And I can only imagine the US soldiers and the allied forces leaving and how they must feel?

The troops can't stay there forever. At some point they needed to go back home anyway. The problem was that they didn't see this one coming. It is bizarre, to say the least, that in a few days it was all gone. The U.S. needs to investigate what went so wrong

I guess they U.S. should've left the region after Bin Laden was killed

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20 minutes ago, Padme said:

The troops can't stay there forever. At some point they needed to go back home anyway. The problem was that they didn't see this one coming. It is bizarre, to say the least, that in a few days it was all gone. The U.S. needs to investigate what went so wrong

I guess they U.S. should've left the region after Bin Laden was killed

At the end of the day there were only ever two ways for this to play out. Either the US and its allies stayed permanently to keep the place out of Taliban hands or they pulled out and hand the place over to the Taliban. There never was a scenario where the Afghan government and army would take over full control and if they're not willing to fight for their country this is the only possible outcome.

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This is the first time that I've been truly disappointed in the Biden administration. They haven't been perfect. None are. But the exit strategy seemed to consist of rounding up our troops and leaving. There are interpreters and others who put themselves at risk by helping us who seem to have been simply left to fend for themselves. It terrible for them and sends a bad message going forward about helping the U.S. in similar situations. I understand the reasons for leaving and I admittedly have no clue why we've even been there so long, but the actual exit should have been handled so much better than it has been.

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11 minutes ago, Dazey said:

At the end of the day there were only ever two ways for this to play out. Either the US and its allies stayed permanently to keep the place out of Taliban hands or they pulled out and hand the place over to the Taliban. There never was a scenario where the Afghan government and army would take over full control and if they're not willing to fight for their country this is the only possible outcome.

I agree. The U.S. should've stayed for 20 years. They should've never wasted time and money traning people. How come they never figured out it was all useless?

The former Soviet Union went through that back in the 80s

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9 hours ago, Locke said:

but the actual exit should have been handled so much better than it has been.

How? What would you have done? Bush started the whole thing after 9/11. Obama cought Bin Laden but not much more was achived. Trump wanted to leave because he didn't want to spend more money there. In his view Afghanistan was a lost cause. But people around him wouldn't let him do anything. Now Biden does it. I guess he didn't know how weak and incompetent the Afghan army and government were.  I would like to know what happened and how it happened.  It sucks it ended this way. But the U.S. right now has other priorities at home

 

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Gotta say that Uncle Joe and co aren't covering themselves in glory with this. I can't see how many of these scenes could have been avoided whist still withdrawing all troops but communication has been pretty shocking. We really need a statement pretty sharpish. Also a little odd that Kamala Harris seems to have gone missing along with Jen Psaki. Not a good look.

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41 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Gotta say that Uncle Joe and co aren't covering themselves in glory with this. I can't see how many of these scenes could have been avoided whist still withdrawing all troops but communication has been pretty shocking. We really need a statement pretty sharpish. Also a little odd that Kamala Harris seems to have gone missing along with Jen Psaki. Not a good look.

 According to CNN, It is expected that Biden is going to address the nation. So neither Harris nor Psaki are going to say much

The middle east is a lost cause. And it has been for decades. Only the British could somewhat handle them ages ago during the Empire.

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5 minutes ago, Padme said:

 According to CNN, It is expected that Biden is going to address the nation. So neither Harris nor Psaki are going to say much

The middle east is a lost cause. And it has been for decades. Only the British could somewhat handle them ages ago during the Empire.

I agree, I just think that somebody should be front and centre throughout all this. If it's going to be a couple of days until we get a White House statement then at least the press secretary should be at post. 

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8 minutes ago, Dazey said:

I agree, I just think that somebody should be front and centre throughout all this. If it's going to be a couple of days until we get a White House statement then at least the press secretary should be at post. 

This issue can't wait a couple of days. Look, if the U.S. would've left 5 years ago or 20 years after Biden this outcome would've been the same.

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Surreal scenes from the airport in Kabul, a US Air Force plan rolling over the airstrip with dozens of Afghani clinging on , trying to escape the country. Just made my jaw drop.

The withdrawal of international forces forces from Afghanistan is just the period to 20 years of waste and futility. The intention of invading the country may have been okay, the execution was terrible and the outcome are so many people dead and nothing to show for it. Taliban will reverse any improvements made. The people will suffer.

Edited by SoulMonster
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24 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Surreal scenes from the airport in Kabul, a US Air Force plan rolling over the airstrip with dozens of Afghani clinging on , trying to escape the country. Just made my jaw drop.

The withdrawal of international forces forces from Afghanistan is just the period to 20 years of waste and futility. The intention of invading the country may have been okay, the execution was terrible and the outcome are so many people dead and nothing to show for it. Taliban will reverse any improvements made. The people will suffer.

Care to eleborate about "improvements" I never saw them. And this situation is clear evidence of that. The Taliban did what they did because they have plenty of support from inside the country and outsiders as well. Otherwise this situation would've never happened. And if people suffer, their problem. Enough already with western countries spending tons of money in some worthless cause. Western countries need to deal with many issues already, from the economy to the pandemic and everything in between.

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Basically what's happened is that the US expected the Afghan army to keep the peace across country while they beat an orderly withdrawal. Thought they'd be well out of it before the Taliban started kicking off. The fact that the Afghan army didn't even attempt to defend themselves and effectively surrendered without a fight was a bit of a shock but not entirely unexpected. Taliban steamrolled the country in less than a week and with only 2,000 troops remaining in country the US couldn't have done anything even if it wanted too.

The optics look particularly horrendous because now the White House is stuck with it's thumb up its arse wondering what the fuck just happened. For the record I don't think that the decision to get out was the wrong one necessarily nor do I think it would have happened any other way given the complete and utter collapse of government forces but fuck me if this doesn't look to the casual observer like the US has had it's pants pulled down in epic fashion!

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12 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Women able to be educated is a pretty sizable improvement.

 

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You were there? Mostly improving conditions for women by lifting restrictions but also investment in infrastructure.

 Some women might have been able to school. But they still cover their bodies from head to toe. I can't imagine a woman in that place being the CEO of anything. What infrastructure? I'm sure there is bridge somewhere. And some airport. Afghanistan is far from being Abu Dabi when it comes infrastructure

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