The US Politics/Elections Thread 2.0

[evilfacelessturtle]

3 hours ago, dude69 said:

Anyone who has been to Chicago, San Fran, Portland knows they are shit holes and the citizens are fed up and many of them do not publish stats to the FBI.  However, let's look at your top cities list from the article you posted, with your premise being that they are "red."  Anyone knows that the mayor of cities is the one who determines the crime policies....look at what New York was like when Bloomberg was Mayor compared to DeBlasio.  Here are the political affiliations of the mayors on your list:

 

1, Memphis-Paul Young, Democrat

2. St. Louis- Tushaura Jones, Democrat

3,  Little Rock- Frank Scott, Jr- Democrat

4.  Minneapolis- Jacob Frey, Democrat

5.  Detroit-Mike Duggan, Democrat

6.  Kansas City- Quinton Lucas, Democrat

7.  New Orleans-LaToya Cantrell, Democrat

8.  Clevealnd- Justin Bibb, Democrat

9.  Birmingham-Randall Woodfin, Democrat

10.  Houston- John Whitmire, Democrat

 

Whoopsie....great argument though.  What do you know!  EVERY SINGLE MAYOR IS A DEMOCRAT!   Shocking.  Thank you for proving my point.  Also, you said the top 4 are "Red" states...Minnesota is Blue.  You are wrong about that too.

And let me go very slowly on how the FBI and Police are different, because you don't seem to understand.

In the top 34 biggest cities in America, only THREE have Republican mayors.

You're not very good with numbers, are ya?

There are hardly any Republican led cities at all, dotard.

Unsurprising that Republican States don't want to take personal responsibility for their criminal infestations. Mayors have no real power, anyone who knows anything about politics knows that.

Then, we have the fact that:

Rural Areas have Higher Crime than Cities

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-06-07/is-new-york-city-more-dangerous-than-rural-america?embedded-checkout=true

https://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it-turns-out-that-cities-are-the-safest-places-to-live/

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462

Mic drop. Thanks for playing. 

Quote

The Police- Need to be heavily funded and supported and small crimes need to be prosecuted.

The FBI- Needs to be cleaned out of corruption, subject to transparency and also funded and supported.

So you're saying that big crimes do not need to be prosecuted.

Explain to me how you would "fund and support the FBI" while also "defunding and abolishing the FBI". This should be rich.

Let me explain this in simple terms for you:

The police - Needs to be cleaned out of corruption, subject to transparency and also funded and supported.

The FBI - Need to be heavily funded and supported and big crimes need to be prosecuted.

Hopefully some day you'll learn common sense.

[Sweersa]

According to the FBI, the three safest states from a crime standpoint also have the highest percentage of white residents. They must be racist! I actually thought that stat was not accurate until I looked it up after seeing it displayed. 
I have a question that is uncomfortable to ask, but I’d love an answer because I’m genuinely curious. According to all stats I’m aware of (mostly the FBI) it appears most violent crime is done by a minority group, which is black or African Americans in America. Is this more or an economic issue than genetic or cultural, or all of the above? In my reading, it says more black people are killed by other black people than any other ethnic group in the US.

I don’t mean to offend, I’m just wondering and I feel this is a fairly safe place to ask questions despite the divides we face here politically, and otherwise. I know there’s differences between ethnic groups, more than just appearance, how could their not be? I just feel it’s stigmatized to talk about it. Even things that could be considered offensive to white people, I accept that as I’m open minded. Black men tend to be physically superior as a whole (sports etc., seem to have more black players which isn’t reflective of overall population in America)  
 

[grouse]

4 hours ago, dude69 said:

I asked you in each of my replies. 

Could you show me where you asked me this question outside of your reply where you first mentioned it? Since you have stated that you asked me this each time,

Edited November 25, 2024 by grouse

[evilfacelessturtle]

14 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

According to the FBI, the three safest states from a crime standpoint also have the highest percentage of white residents. They must be racist! I actually thought that stat was not accurate until I looked it up after seeing it displayed. 
I have a question that is uncomfortable to ask, but I’d love an answer because I’m genuinely curious. According to all stats I’m aware of (mostly the FBI) it appears most violent crime is done by a minority group, which is black or African Americans in America. Is this more or an economic issue than genetic or cultural, or all of the above? In my reading, it says more black people are killed by other black people than any other ethnic group in the US.

I don’t mean to offend, I’m just wondering and I feel this is a fairly safe place to ask questions despite the divides we face here politically, and otherwise. I know there’s differences between ethnic groups, more than just appearance, how could their not be? I just feel it’s stigmatized to talk about it. Even things that could be considered offensive to white people, I accept that as I’m open minded.
 

I appreciate the question in good faith.

First of all, you have to consider that there is a correlation between poverty and crime. Poorer people are more desperate, have higher rates of parental dysfunction due to drug addiction (which is of course something that creates poverty as well) or mental health issues, and lower quality schools with higher student-to-teacher ratios meaning less individualized attention per pupil. Then, you have to consider that black americans started off with nothing, and were prevented from building wealth by any means necessary for decades. We can argue about the extent to which that is still happening, but the effect of generations of discrimination is long-lasting. Especially without any kind of large scale action to break the cycle.

Anyone claiming this is genetic would first have to find the genetic difference, because race is not a biological thing, it's a social construct. Having more melanin in your skin does not make your brain develop differently. "Culture" is usually a codeword for genetics, but if we're to take it in good faith, culture is of course shaped by environment as well. Nothing exists in a vacuum.

As far as the "black on black crime" thing. What is never mentioned alongside that, is the fact that most crime against whites is perpetrated by other whites. The same goes for latinos and every other race. This is because of how much our population is split into areas that are majority-white, majority-black, etc. People get into conflict with those around them.

Quote

Black men tend to be physically superior as a whole (sports etc., seem to have more black players which isn’t reflective of overall population in America)  

We can't just look at a result without controlling for variables, though. Sports are often seen as the only way out of poverty, and therefore you'll have minorities taking it more seriously as a career path instead of a leisure activity. Also, this depends highly on the sport. Very few hockey players are black, despite that being easily as physically demanding as football or basketball. There are simply fewer ice rinks in urban areas than basketball courts, and the cost of entry is higher; there's more equipment needed for hockey than basketball. There simply isn't any scientific evidence that one race is physically superior to another.

"Race is a social construct, not a biological variable determined by genetic factors." - American Heart Association

https://newsroom.heart.org/news/race-is-a-social-construct-and-often-used-as-proxy-for-biological-variables-may-affect-patient-care-outcomes

[dude69]

1 hour ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

In the top 34 biggest cities in America, only THREE have Republican mayors.

You're not very good with numbers, are ya?

There are hardly any Republican led cities at all, dotard.

Unsurprising that Republican States don't want to take personal responsibility for their criminal infestations. Mayors have no real power, anyone who knows anything about politics knows that.

Then, we have the fact that:

Rural Areas have Higher Crime than Cities

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-06-07/is-new-york-city-more-dangerous-than-rural-america?embedded-checkout=true

https://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it-turns-out-that-cities-are-the-safest-places-to-live/

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462

Mic drop. Thanks for playing. 

So you're saying that big crimes do not need to be prosecuted.

Explain to me how you would "fund and support the FBI" while also "defunding and abolishing the FBI". This should be rich.

Let me explain this in simple terms for you:

The police - Needs to be cleaned out of corruption, subject to transparency and also funded and supported.

The FBI - Need to be heavily funded and supported and big crimes need to be prosecuted.

Hopefully some day you'll learn common sense.

You continue to insult but your facts don't add up.

First, no one said I would defund and abolish the FBI.  The plan is to de-centralize the offices, like they were prior to Obama, and to root out the corruption.  A big part of it is declassifying and adding transpancy.

Second, police should be heavily funded.

Finally, the mayors and the District Attorney's play the most important role in the crime in a City.  Gulliani and Bloomber did "broken window" policing, meaning they prosecuted everything and the result was that the city cleaned up.

The soft on crime mentality of allowing shoplifting up to $ 900, no cash bail, etc. are what drives up crime.  So do "sanctuary cities."

Again, every single top 10 Crime City you listed is Democrat run with a soft on crime DA.

So you are wrong, no matter how you spin it, and if you were being graded you would get an F.

[ZoSoRose]

5 hours ago, dude69 said:

Anyone who has been to Chicago, San Fran, Portland knows they are shit holes and the citizens are fed up and many of them do not publish stats to the FBI.  However, let's look at your top cities list from the article you posted, with your premise being that they are "red."  Anyone knows that the mayor of cities is the one who determines the crime policies....look at what New York was like when Bloomberg was Mayor compared to DeBlasio.  Here are the political affiliations of the mayors on your list:

 

1, Memphis-Paul Young, Democrat

2. St. Louis- Tushaura Jones, Democrat

3,  Little Rock- Frank Scott, Jr- Democrat

4.  Minneapolis- Jacob Frey, Democrat

5.  Detroit-Mike Duggan, Democrat

6.  Kansas City- Quinton Lucas, Democrat

7.  New Orleans-LaToya Cantrell, Democrat

8.  Clevealnd- Justin Bibb, Democrat

9.  Birmingham-Randall Woodfin, Democrat

10.  Houston- John Whitmire, Democrat

 

Whoopsie....great argument though.  What do you know!  EVERY SINGLE MAYOR IS A DEMOCRAT!   Shocking.  Thank you for proving my point.  Also, you said the top 4 are "Red" states...Minnesota is Blue.  You are wrong about that too.

And let me go very slowly on how the FBI and Police are different, because you don't seem to understand.

 

The Police- Need to be heavily funded and supported and small crimes need to be prosecuted.

The FBI- Needs to be cleaned out of corruption, subject to transparency and also funded and supported.

Do you see the difference?  Probably not.

Great point about Democratic run cities though.

 

Mic drop....thanks for playing

I live in Detroit. It’s fucking awesome, here. Fuck off

[Sweersa]

57 minutes ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

I appreciate the question in good faith.

First of all, you have to consider that there is a correlation between poverty and crime. Poorer people are more desperate, have higher rates of parental dysfunction due to drug addiction (which is of course something that creates poverty as well) or mental health issues, and lower quality schools with higher student-to-teacher ratios meaning less individualized attention per pupil. Then, you have to consider that black americans started off with nothing, and were prevented from building wealth by any means necessary for decades. We can argue about the extent to which that is still happening, but the effect of generations of discrimination is long-lasting. Especially without any kind of large scale action to break the cycle.

Anyone claiming this is genetic would first have to find the genetic difference, because race is not a biological thing, it's a social construct. Having more melanin in your skin does not make your brain develop differently. "Culture" is usually a codeword for genetics, but if we're to take it in good faith, culture is of course shaped by environment as well. Nothing exists in a vacuum.

As far as the "black on black crime" thing. What is never mentioned alongside that, is the fact that most crime against whites is perpetrated by other whites. The same goes for latinos and every other race. This is because of how much our population is split into areas that are majority-white, majority-black, etc. People get into conflict with those around them.

We can't just look at a result without controlling for variables, though. Sports are often seen as the only way out of poverty, and therefore you'll have minorities taking it more seriously as a career path instead of a leisure activity. Also, this depends highly on the sport. Very few hockey players are black, despite that being easily as physically demanding as football or basketball. There are simply fewer ice rinks in urban areas than basketball courts, and the cost of entry is higher; there's more equipment needed for hockey than basketball. There simply isn't any scientific evidence that one race is physically superior to another.

"Race is a social construct, not a biological variable determined by genetic factors." - American Heart Association

https://newsroom.heart.org/news/race-is-a-social-construct-and-often-used-as-proxy-for-biological-variables-may-affect-patient-care-outcomes

Thank you for your thorough post, I read all of it and you made many points I have never considered, that make sense.

[evilfacelessturtle]

1 hour ago, dude69 said:

First, no one said I would defund and abolish the FBI. 

Matt Gaetz (Trump's #1 AG pick) did, that's what this whole discussion started with. And he is far from the only one in the GOP that wants to dismantle the administrative state. That's what Project 2025 was all about.

1 hour ago, dude69 said:

The plan is to de-centralize the offices, like they were prior to Obama, and to root out the corruption. 

Decentralizing the FBI is weakening the FBI. The whole point of having a federal agency is that it's centralized to counteract the downsides that exist with decentralized policing in the states. It's just the same as every other GOP plan to move every power to states instead of the federal govt, because lots of little agencies have less resources and manpower, less ability to cooperate, and are easier for megacorporations to bully and buy off because they are smaller.

Also, if this was a genuine desire to decentralize power, why have the Republicans created new federal agencies like ICE and furthered this "Unitary Executive" theory which maximizes presidential power? Why is Trump creating a "Department of Government Efficiency" to be run by the richest billionaire elite in the country? They don't care about decentralizing power, they just want to weaken any agency that threatens Trump's power by holding him accountable to the LAW.

You don't "root out corruption" by hiring an OIL EXECUTIVE TO BE ENERGY SECRETARY and the richest man in the country to a made up "government efficiency" role. He is literally hiring the fox to guard the hen house. How can you not see this?

1 hour ago, dude69 said:

Gulliani and Bloomber did "broken window" policing, meaning they prosecuted everything and the result was that the city cleaned up.

False. Crime was going down for ten years before Giuliani came along, and broken windows policing did absolutely nothing:

“There is no evidence that policing disorder lowers crime or that broken windows works,” said Harcourt, director of the Columbia Center for Contemporary Critical Thought. “But it has had a tremendously disproportionate impact on African-American and Hispanic communities.”

Harcourt argued that the data behind broken windows was unreliable at best and often self-contradictory."

https://www.law.columbia.edu/news/archive/shattering-broken-windows

1 hour ago, dude69 said:

The soft on crime mentality of allowing shoplifting up to $ 900, no cash bail, etc. are what drives up crime.  So do "sanctuary cities."

Proving my point again about the pre-packaged talking points. The threshold for misdemeanor theft is $1,500 in Dallas (Republican mayor), so does that mean Texas Republicans are even softer on crime than San Francisco Democrats? By your logic, it does.

Literally everywhere in the country there is a dollar amount threshold under which theft becomes a misdemeanor. You fell for that talking point because you didn't even know this.

As far as cash bail goes, it does not change who is given bail and who is not. It only changes whether you can be wealthy enough to get out of jail. Having cash bail means that a criminal can get out on the streets if he simply has enough money. No cash bail means he cannot get out no matter how much money he has. No cash bail is the tough on crime policy. But again, you've fallen for the talking point because you haven't actually thought about this at all.

1 hour ago, dude69 said:

You continue to insult

 

1 hour ago, dude69 said:

if you were being graded you would get an F.

Quote

liberals....lemmings.

 

[dude69]

10 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

Matt Gaetz (Trump's #1 AG pick) did, that's what this whole discussion started with. And he is far from the only one in the GOP that wants to dismantle the administrative state. That's what Project 2025 was all about.

Decentralizing the FBI is weakening the FBI. The whole point of having a federal agency is that it's centralized to counteract the downsides that exist with decentralized policing in the states. It's just the same as every other GOP plan to move every power to states instead of the federal govt, because lots of little agencies have less resources and manpower, less ability to cooperate, and are easier for megacorporations to bully and buy off because they are smaller.

Also, if this was a genuine desire to decentralize power, why have the Republicans created new federal agencies like ICE and furthered this "Unitary Executive" theory which maximizes presidential power? Why is Trump creating a "Department of Government Efficiency" to be run by the richest billionaire elite in the country? They don't care about decentralizing power, they just want to weaken any agency that threatens Trump's power by holding him accountable to the LAW.

You don't "root out corruption" by hiring an OIL EXECUTIVE TO BE ENERGY SECRETARY and the richest man in the country to a made up "government efficiency" role. He is literally hiring the fox to guard the hen house. How can you not see this?

False. Crime was going down for ten years before Giuliani came along, and broken windows policing did absolutely nothing:

“There is no evidence that policing disorder lowers crime or that broken windows works,” said Harcourt, director of the Columbia Center for Contemporary Critical Thought. “But it has had a tremendously disproportionate impact on African-American and Hispanic communities.”

Harcourt argued that the data behind broken windows was unreliable at best and often self-contradictory."

https://www.law.columbia.edu/news/archive/shattering-broken-windows

Proving my point again about the pre-packaged talking points. The threshold for misdemeanor theft is $1,500 in Dallas (Republican mayor), so does that mean Texas Republicans are even softer on crime than San Francisco Democrats? By your logic, it does.

Literally everywhere in the country there is a dollar amount threshold under which theft becomes a misdemeanor. You fell for that talking point because you didn't even know this.

As far as cash bail goes, it does not change who is given bail and who is not. It only changes whether you can be wealthy enough to get out of jail. Having cash bail means that a criminal can get out on the streets if he simply has enough money. No cash bail means he cannot get out no matter how much money he has. No cash bail is the tough on crime policy. But again, you've fallen for the talking point because you haven't actually thought about this at all.

 

 

A few things here.  First, Project 2025 is not Trump.  I don't know how many times that has to be stated.  And again, no one has denied the importance of the FBI, CIA, DOJ.  They question the corruption and the lack of transparency and it is long overdue.  I think Gaetz was a horrible pick, as do many Republicans, and he never would have made it through, which is why he resigned.   Again I don't know how to clarify any more clearly that restructuring these organizations is different than soft on crime.  Americans do not trust the FBI, DOJ, CIA.....right or wrong, there is a wide perception that they are corrupt and making changes to the internal leadership, transparency are overdue. 

As for New York City, we can argue the causation of crime being reduced, but as someone who lived in the City during the Guilliani era, I can tell you that he was an amazing mayor who cleaned up the city.  To say otherwise is simply contrarian, and he was universally loved in New York before he morphed into the cartoon character he is today.  Times Square was an absolute dump filled with porn shops and homeless, and he transformed it into the tourist attraction it is today.  One of the many things he did was impose a $ 200 fine for honking, which was seriously enforced by the police and it made a difference.  He also increased the police presence significantly and was very pro police as opposed to the demonization of police that occurs today.

Here is an article from 1997:

https://www.nyc.gov/html/om/html/97/sp693-97.html

The Mayor continued, "So how did we do it? First we focused on improving the basic quality of life and we dramatically lowered overall crime in the area. Since 1993, overall crime in the 1st Precinct has decreased 36 percent, murder has decreased 100 percent and robbery is down 58 percent. This reduction in crime has helped spur the development of businesses and growth of jobs -- 173,500 of them citywide -- through a number of targeted tax reductions, tax credits, and smart new initiatives. The City is the #1 international tourist destination, our streets and parks are cleaner, and we are now investing in our future. Thanks to our innovative, intelligent choices and tough decisions, we have created a City that is thriving and prepared to grow and flourish as we make our way into the 21st Century."

The Mayor's plan, according to DLMA President Carl Weisbrod, has led to the most dramatic turnaround in Lower Manhattan's history. Weisbrod said, "In late 1994, Mayor Giuliani boldly initiated the Lower Manhattan Revitalization Plan to spur the recovery of Downtown New York. This program was one of the most successful tax incentive programs ever devised. It has not only succeeded magnificently in turning things around Downtown, it has done so far more quickly than anyone imaged -- except, perhaps, for the Mayor. We applaud his efforts and thank him for his solid commitment and support of Downtown."

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/giuliani-campaign-press-release-rudy-got-results-mayor-new-york-city

Mayor Giuliani Cleaned Up New York So That City Residents Wanted To Stay, And Not Leave Like They Did Prior To His Coming To Office. According to a 1990 Time magazine poll, 59% of New Yorkers said they would live somewhere else if they could, but by the end of Mayor Giuliani's time in office, just 31% said that they'd want to live somewhere else. (Joelle Attinger, "The Decline of New York," Time, 9/17/90; The New York Times/CBS News Poll, Conducted 10/6/01-10/9/01, Results Available At: www.nytimes.com, Accessed 4/20/07)

From the NY Times:

He hands to Mayor-elect Michael R. Bloomberg a city transformed. During his eight-year tenure, when the national economy soared, the city became safer, cleaner, better run. He also restored the sense that a city that had once seemed out of control was, in fact, manageable. It is an accomplishment that may benefit or burden his successor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/31/nyregion/the-giuliani-years-the-overview-a-man-who-became-more-than-a-mayor.html

 

During the 1990s, crime rates in New York City dropped dramatically, even more than in the United States as a whole. Violent crime declined by more than 56 percent in the City, compared to about 28 percent in the nation as whole. Property crimes tumbled by about 65 percent, but fell only 26 percent nationally.

The police measure that most consistently reduces crime is the arrest rate... Felony arrest rates (except for motor vehicle thefts) rose 50 to 70 percent in the 1990s. When arrests of burglars increased 10 percent, the number of burglaries fell 2.7 to 3.2 percent. When the arrest rate of robbers rose 10 percent, the number of robberies fell 5.7 to 5.9 percent.

https://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/what-reduced-crime-new-york-city

So you can debate what caused the crime drop...but you cannot debate that crime was reduced dramatically under Gulianni.  It was and the city was revitalized....the above is important...actually prosecuting crimes versus letting people off.  The "soft on crime" policies simply don't work.

You can also thank the immigration policy for a lot of the current crime in New York.  75% of violent crime in midtown Manhattan is linked to illegal immigrants.  

https://nypost.com/2024/09/02/us-news/migrants-flooding-nycs-justice-system-making-up-75-of-arrests-in-midtown-as-pathetic-sanctuary-city-laws-handcuff-cops/

Even Current Mayor Eric Adams says this.  The immigration policies and sanctuary city policies of the left are terrible for the citizens of New York.  I still love NY, but I can tell you that it is absolutely nowhere near as great as it was under Gulianni and Bloomberg and all the statistics support that and I don't know a New Yorker who will disagree.

 

[grouse]

23 hours ago, grouse said:

Could you show me where you asked me this question outside of your reply where you first mentioned it? Since you have stated that you asked me this each time,

I will ask dude69 this question again since he appears to have missed it,

[dude69]

On 11/25/2024 at 6:59 PM, grouse said:

I will ask dude69 this question again since he appears to have missed it,

The point is you cannot state with any factual evidence that educated people are leaving the US.  But your deflection tactics are admirable.

[grouse]

17 hours ago, dude69 said:

The point is you cannot state with any factual evidence that educated people are leaving the US.  But your deflection tactics are admirable.

I have asked you a question and you have not answered it.

Edited November 28, 2024 by grouse

[matt1313]

On 11/24/2024 at 6:18 PM, evilfacelessturtle said:

 

Rural Areas have Higher Crime than Cities

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-06-07/is-new-york-city-more-dangerous-than-rural-america?embedded-checkout=true

https://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it-turns-out-that-cities-are-the-safest-places-to-live/

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/map-gun-death-rates-lower-cities-than-rural-counties-rcna81462

Mic drop. Thanks for playing. 

 

Time Magazine... NBC News... and Bloomberg (which you actually pay for?!  The story is behind a paywall... lol).  If this is where you get your news, it's completely understandable why you're so brainwashed. 

Mic drop. 

[matt1313]

On 11/24/2024 at 9:15 PM, evilfacelessturtle said:

 

Harcourt argued that the data behind broken windows was unreliable at best and often self-contradictory."

https://www.law.columbia.edu/news/archive/shattering-broken-windows

 

Columbia Law School?!  Might as well be labeled a CCP breeding ground.  lol

Who are you going to source next, MSNBC?!?!  LMAO

[WhazUp]

40 minutes ago, matt1313 said:

Columbia Law School?!  Might as well be labeled a CCP breeding ground.  lol

Who are you going to source next, MSNBC?!?!  LMAO

The genetic fallacy is the act of rejecting or accepting an argument on the basis of its origin rather than its content. Under the genetic fallacy, we judge a claim by paying too much attention to its source or history, even though this criticism is irrelevant to the truth of the claim.

[evilfacelessturtle]

10 hours ago, matt1313 said:

Time Magazine... NBC News... and Bloomberg (which you actually pay for?!  The story is behind a paywall... lol).  If this is where you get your news, it's completely understandable why you're so brainwashed. 

Mic drop. 

Balking at such milquetoast outlets tells us how radical and brainwashed you are. The guy above me cited the friggin NY Post. I bet you read them, too. What are your news sources?

 

When you can't handle the argument, shoot the messenger.

 

Mic drop. 

[evilfacelessturtle]

10 hours ago, matt1313 said:

Columbia Law School?!  Might as well be labeled a CCP breeding ground.  lol

Who are you going to source next, MSNBC?!?!  LMAO

Imagine being this pant-shittingly  terrified of facts that disprove your ideology. You stay in that safe space bubble, cupcake. The communists are everywhere! You don't have to deal with any difficult facts if you just blindly dismiss them like a coward!

[evilfacelessturtle]

On 11/25/2024 at 8:15 AM, dude69 said:

First, Project 2025 is not Trump.  I don't know how many times that has to be stated.

You can repeat this lie as much as you want. It's still a fucking LIE.

Trump Picks Project 2025 Coauthor to Lead the FCC

New Trump Administration Packed with Project 2025 Architects

Trump names Project 2025 architect Russell Vought to key White House role

After Trump’s Project 2025 denials, he is tapping its authors and influencers for key roles

Meet the ex-Trump officials who helped draft Project 2025

So now that we've established the fact that you are a liar, why should anyone take a single word you say seriously?

The jig is up, even the most right wing extremist cretins like Matt "16yo girls are fertile" Walsh have admitted it:

 

On 11/25/2024 at 8:15 AM, dude69 said:

And again, no one has denied the importance of the FBI, CIA, DOJ. 

Vowing to abolish or defund them is not denying their importance? This is the kind of doublespeak pretzel logic you have to engage in to be a Republican, folks.

On 11/25/2024 at 8:15 AM, dude69 said:

Again I don't know how to clarify any more clearly that restructuring these organizations is different than soft on crime.

That's pretty rich, coming from the people who spent two years straight screaming at the top of their lungs that "defund the police" was "soft on crime", even though the actual proposals were to restructure police and send specialized response teams with social workers and medics to non-violent calls.

You're doing a great job at outlining your hypocrisy for me, thank you.

On 11/25/2024 at 8:15 AM, dude69 said:

making changes to the internal leadership, transparency are overdue.

Okay, I'll bite; what proposals for increased transparency has Trump offered? Oh yeah, nothing because he has no policies. It's all a grift. All he has to do is say something and you fall for it. He never has to actually follow through with action.

On 11/25/2024 at 8:15 AM, dude69 said:

As for New York City, we can argue the causation of crime being reduced

That is precisely what we're arguing. Crime was going down nationwide from the early 1990s onward, and all cities benefited more than the national average because of obvious compounding effects of having greater population density.

On 11/25/2024 at 8:15 AM, dude69 said:

but as someone who lived in the City during the Guilliani era, I can tell you that he was an amazing mayor who cleaned up the city.

"Trust me bro. Living there makes me an expert in sociology!" 

On 11/25/2024 at 8:15 AM, dude69 said:

Times Square was an absolute dump filled with porn shops and homeless, and he transformed it into the tourist attraction it is today.

He turned the city into a gated community for wealthy elites, who could then commit white collar crime without adding to the crime stats because it was never enforced by Giuliani. Why do you think nobody can afford to live there anymore? Funny how you completely ignore the explosion of rent under Giuliani.

On 11/25/2024 at 8:15 AM, dude69 said:

One of the many things he did was impose a $ 200 fine for honking, which was seriously enforced by the police and it made a difference. 

And the party of "personal liberty and small government" supports making honking illegal? Meanwhile y'all threw a tantrum when Bloomberg outlawed large soda cups. Exposing more of your own hypocrisy again.

On 11/25/2024 at 8:15 AM, dude69 said:

Here is an article from 1997:

Perfect, let's look at a MARKETING PRESS RELEASE FROM GIULIANI'S OWN PRESS OFFICE! Better yet, take it from before any of the effects could be observed or analyzed! Pure public relations marketing bullshit and you've fallen for it hook, line and sinker.

And your second link is... ANOTHER GIULIANI PRESS RELEASE!

I really don't think you could shred your credibility into any finer strands if you tried. This is marvelous. 

Then we have an op-ed from the neo-con, neo-lib establishment trash rag that is NYT, and is paywalled. Your quote offers zero data or evidence, just somebody claiming he can take credit for it and that's it. Oh, and pointing out that the national economy soared at the same time, which obviously has an effect on crime.

And finally, you give me a working paper (AKA not peer-reviewed) from Two-Thousand-Fucking-Three.  

What's even more hilarious is that NBER (your source for that link) takes studies from the Columbia Law School which your comrade just derided as "CCP breeding ground". The simultaneous deriding of academia and selective cherry picking of individual outlier pre-print working papers when it suits your agenda is incredibly dishonest.

I've already linked you a superior scientific source: a statement from an expert in the field who has reviewed all of the available literature.

Here's another literature review that finds the same conclusion:

https://news.northeastern.edu/2019/05/15/northeastern-university-researchers-find-little-evidence-for-broken-windows-theory-say-neighborhood-disorder-doesnt-cause-crime/

"The body of evidence for the broken windows theory does not stand, in terms of how disorder impacts individuals"

"The researchers analyzed nearly 300 studies that examined the effects of at least one element of neighborhood disorder (say, graffiti or public drunkenness) on at least one outcome at the individual level (say, committing a violent crime or using drugs). They then tested the effect that disorder was found to have on residents in each study."

And here's one from Texas Southern University. Is that another "CCP Breeding Ground"?

https://digitalscholarship.tsu.edu/ajcjs/vol11/iss1/6/

"The impact resulted in disproportionate arrest of Black and Hispanic youths in comparison with Caucasians. Critics of broken windows strategy maintain that its success is exaggerated and oversold. They argue that the decline in crime in the city was not a consequence of the strategy, but due to improved economy, declining numbers of teenage males, and the decline in crack cocaine use. The broken windows strategy in fact yielded unintended consequences and other collateral effects because of its negative impact on the racial minorities. Furthermore, it created enormous financial burden on the criminal justice system by diverting limited resources for social programs to punishment and incarceration, thus undermining the traditional police-community emphasis of effective policing."

But it doesn't surprise me that you don't know even the most basic things about scientific research, like what a working paper or pre-print is.

[estrangedtwat]

What is everyone so scared about Project 2025?  Everything I've heard about it was sensible and reasonable solutions to fixing the broken things in our society.

[SoulMonster]

6 hours ago, estrangedtwat said:

What is everyone so scared about Project 2025?  Everything I've heard about it was sensible and reasonable solutions to fixing the broken things in our society.

"Its proposals could expand presidential power, erode democratic norms, and push an agenda influenced by Christian nationalist ideology."

[janrichmond]

16 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

"Its proposals could expand presidential power, erode democratic norms, and push an agenda influenced by Christian nationalist ideology."

Who's quote is that? 

 

[evilfacelessturtle]

And I didn't even touch on Giuliani's ties to organized crime. Yeah, he rooted the Italian mafia out of NYC, only to usher in the Russian Mafia.

FBI Agent Says Giuliani Was Co-opted by Russian Intelligence

FBI tracked alleged Russian mob ties of Giuliani campaign supporter

Gee, I wonder why these corrupt politicians want to defund the FBI? Hmm...

Lawsuit Reveals Trump’s Ties to Russian Mobsters and Oligarchs

Felix Sater was one of Giuliani and Trump's closest associates, even going so far as to work on a deal to build a Trump Tower in Moscow as a money laundering scheme.

Sater has now been convicted of money laundering:

Ex-Trump Associate Felix Sater Loses Money-Laundering Trial

 

Then you have Giuliani getting caught STEALING MONEY FROM FIRST 9/11 RESPONDERS:

New filing reveals Rudy Giuliani’s company received financial support from 9/11 first responders foundation

 

Then you have Giuliani giving to NYPD Commissioner Bernie Kerik an apartment donated for first responders, which he used to have extramarital affairs:

"A Manhattan apartment Kerik reportedly used to conduct extramarital affairs with two women overlooked Ground Zero and was supposed to be for the use of exhausted 9/11 workers."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/skeletons-pour-from-keriks-closet/

 

Anyone who still falls for Giuliani's self promotion during the aftermath of 9/11 is as gullible as it gets. He fucked over every first responder in every way possible.

Firefighters Dispute Giuliani’s 9/11 Record

"He's running on 9/11 leadership, and there was none. He's not the hero of 9/11," says Riches. "All the heroes died that day trying to help people. His leadership is horrible. She says, "Now we're going to set the record straight."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/deadlineusa/2008/jan/28/giulianisworstnightmare

 

But that's how it goes in MAGA world; Trump can bounce a check to veterans and call John McCain and all POWs losers, and Rudy can steal money from 9/11 First Responders Charities, and none if it matters because they wrap themselves in the flag and flap their gums about how much they love veterans. Appearances and cheap talk are all it takes to fool the most gullible people in the country.

Posing as champion of veterans, Trump instead tried to stiff them

https://www.ajc.com/blog/jay-bookman/posing-champion-veterans-trump-instead-tried-stiff-them/1gCvsks0jsSDOXCPAJWMFO/

Edited December 1, 2024 by evilfacelessturtle

[SoulMonster]

7 hours ago, janrichmond said:

Who's quote is that? 

Summary from ChatGTP.

[SoulMonster]

There was a discussion on the US being a flawed democracy earlier. The fact that a president has the power to pardon criminals is a good example of why it is flawed. That's muddling the line between the judicial branch and the executive branch; it erodes the autonomy of the judiciary system and puts too much power into the hands of a president.  

Edited December 2, 2024 by SoulMonster

[Cosmo]

MAGA: The world was at peace during the Trump administration.

(elects Trump)

Trump: If BRICS stop using the USD as their exchange currency, we're gonna tax 'em at 100%.

 

Guess he misses the cold war

Edited December 3, 2024 by Cosmo